there's gotta be a way to get them to score more runs
by tjbrun88
on May 20, 2008 1:53 AM PDT
1. Lewis LF
2. Winn RF
3. Castillo 3B
4. Rowand CF
5. Bowker 1B
6. Molina C
7. Pitcher
8. Burriss 2B
9. Vizquel SS
Run run run with Lewis and Winn to prevent double plays via Castillo which will open up a lot of holes for Castillo's slap happy tactics to poke singles and doubles through. Rowand leads our team in slugging, bat him 4. Bowker has the potential to hit 20 jacks and I see him as a legit number 5 guy. Molina can still get rbis in the 6 hole, but then we just conceed that he will not score because of his lack of speed/good hitters behind him and bat the pitcher behind him (if you don't believe me, check the stats, he has only 12 runs scored, and 4 of them were driven in by his own home runs!). Burriss and Vizquel become the new table setters with speed and Vizquel's bunting ability and Lewis now becomes a 3 hitter the second time around.
Cuz, I mean, what they're doing now is definitely not working.
Or maybe we just need new players . . .
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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"Or maybe we just need new players . . ."
Tweaking the lineup here and there can help, but you’re not going to get more than maybe a couple wins extra, which is useful if you’re an 86 win team trying to get into the playoffs. When you’re a 68 win team or so, that’s not really going to make any difference.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on May 20, 2008 2:14 AM PDT 0 recs
Blood just shot out of my eye sockets
Castillo batting 3rd.
by xanthan on May 20, 2008 5:24 AM PDT 0 recs
Why oldie Vizquel batting 9th, and not at the top?
He seems to have a little gas in him (so far at least).
Castillo hits doubles.
by kennv on May 20, 2008 6:06 AM PDT 0 recs
Dallas McPherson
Just hit his 15th HR in AAA. Good thing we didnt sign him.
by S49erfan on May 20, 2008 6:25 AM PDT 0 recs
Yeah, but also consider he’s hitting in the one of the best hitters parks in the entire minor leagues. I’d still would have taken him over Castillo and given him a shot, but his numbers are pumped up by Albuquerque.
by xanthan on
May 20, 2008 6:29 AM PDT
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On the other hand...
Just as a bit of perspective (and because I live in DC), it’s worth noting that Jim Bowden has spent the last couple of years making some moves that would undoubtedly be very welcome for a Giants fan—picking up high upside young bats for the OF, and the results so far in ‘08 are even more ugly than what’s happening in SF.
Wily Mo Pena: .214/.272/.238 0 HR
Elijah Dukes .042/.143/.083 0 HR
Austin Kearns .187/.295/.267
Lastings Milledge .241/.309/.333
Felipe Lopez .262/.331/.329
Team: next to last in the NL in BA, OBP, and SLG. Ahead of only the Giants and Pads in runs (how the hell have they scored 20 more runs than us with lower SLG, same OBP, and way lower BA anyway?)
And all this while moving into what appears to be a much more hitter friendly park than RFK. The moral to this story? Sometimes there’s just no easy answer to good roster construction.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
by Roger on
May 20, 2008 7:40 AM PDT
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The early results aren't great
But I still love those moves from Bowden. He traded a very mediocre catcher for a young OF with a bunch of upside in Millidge. I think you make that move every single time. They picked up Dukes for not much either. Both guys are really high on talent and have had some off-field stuff issues. Both have also had some injuries this year that have likely slowed them down to some extent.
You’re right that roster construction is hard but of all the players you listed, Bowden got them all cheaply. At most he gave up a couple of average-ish relievers. Who’s the best player he lost in one of the deals to get those players? Bill Bray? Gary Majewski?
I still like Millidge a lot as a player, Dukes is still interesting and most of those others guys aren’t that great. Kearns is kinda like a Randy Winn, not a huge bat in the corner OF but slightly above league average with good defense.
I guess what I like the most about Bowden’s recent pickups is that he didn’t overpay out of desperation, something I think Sabean has been guilty of in order to “push” for the playoffs with Bonds, being the common excuse.
by xanthan on
May 20, 2008 7:55 AM PDT
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Oh absolutely
these were all exactly the kinds of moves we should be making. All low-risk high-upside deals. The sequence of events with the Mets were he got FLores as a Rule V and then pikced up Milledge for the Catcher whom Flores had made expendable was a true fleecing. But it does just go to show that that even making moves “the right way” (IMHO) won’t necessarily lead to success. Or as the old saying goes, “there’s no reward for virtue.”
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
by Roger on
May 20, 2008 9:18 AM PDT
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But it does just go to show that that even making moves "the right way" (IMHO) won’t necessarily lead to success. Or as the old saying goes, "there’s no reward for virtue."
Yup, you are correct. Baseball can be volatile sometimes. But, like I said, I’d make 100 moves like Bowden did and over time, I would expect that most of them would work out. And even if they don’t, your investment was minimal so it’s not going to hamstring you.
by xanthan on
May 20, 2008 10:15 AM PDT
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I think you’re really wrong on this, Zanthan – not so much philosophically, but practically. There are only 25 MLB roster spots, with only 4 of those going for OFs. You have 2 or 3 more (40 man) slots where you can put guys in the minors, but that is not as simple as it sounds – it has all sorts of ramifications, including the contract the guy has as well as ramifications for guys already on the 40 man and/or in the minors. I mean, you can’t collect these guys like aluminum cans and go cash them in (no, my carer hasn[‘t fallen on hard times yet) – you have to have some place to put them – for OFs you have, basically, 4 spots on the MLB roster, 4 each in AAA, AA, A+ and A- Sure it is easy to say “get rid of (fill in a name) but my point is it is not as easy as you make it sound and there are limited slots for them, even if they will go to the minors.
Secondly, give the numbers these guys have posted with Washington, you cannot say the Giants were wrong to give chances to Lewis, Ort, Bowker, Velez. And it won’t be universally agreed that they should push Schierholtz or Horwitz or a fe others.
Lastly, it is easy to say “give MIlledge or Dukes a chance” when you only have to look at their stats or read about their potential. But being a punk gets real old real quick
by allfrank on
May 20, 2008 12:24 PM PDT
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Being a punk might get old
But impregnating teenagers never does.
No matter how old you get – they always stay the same!
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 20, 2008 12:29 PM PDT
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Also, Roger, I may have asked you this before but where are you at? I’m not that far from DC and it’s always good to see more East Coaster Giants fans. I’m hoping to see the new Nats stadium sometime this summer.
by xanthan on
May 20, 2008 10:24 AM PDT
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Currently Arlington, though we’re house shopping on the Hill in a casual, “when’s the market going to bottom out” kind of way. You going to any games in the Giants 4-game series in a couple of weekends? I’m planning on catching at least 2 games. Are you anywhere where you can catch an Augusta game this year? They’re not coming to Hagerstown at all, nor I think Delmarva. Closest appearance will be about 6 hours drive from me.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
by Roger on
May 20, 2008 10:32 AM PDT
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Good luck with the house shopping, it’s probably not a bad time for that sort of thing if the market continues to drop. Hmm, I might see if I can make it out for the Giants series, that would be great and from what I hear, Nats tickets are still easy to get, despite the new stadium.
Augusta would be cool to see as well but I can’t find their schedule right now, their site seems to be down. You said it about Hagerstown, I was bummed when the Giants moved away from there. I went to school in the panhandle of WV - Shepherd University - and Hagerstown was only 20 minutes away from me.
Right now I’m in Harrisonburg, VA, further away from DC than I was when I was at school but still doable in a day.
by xanthan on
May 20, 2008 10:42 AM PDT
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It wasn't a sequence of moves that led to Milledge
for Church + Schneider. Not on either side.
The Mets lost Flores because some idiot in the FO was asleep at the wheel and decided Ben Johnson was worth protecting but Flores wasn’t. Even if Flores was still with the Mets, they would sill have found Ryan Church useful, with Alou being extremely fragile. Church is a pretty decent player. He plays very good D, and is a decent hitter. With the collapse in 2007, the Mets have gone into win now mode. Trading for Church is a win now move. Milledge is going to be a better player, maybe as soon as 2009, but Church is a better player now.
From the Nationals standpoint, even if they didn’t have Flores, making the trade makes sense for them too. For whatever reason, they don’t like Church. Schneider is filler, at this stage in his career. They got back a very talented young CF.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on
May 20, 2008 10:34 AM PDT
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Sequence may have been the wrong word. At least their was no intent for a sequence of moves behind the first one. That said, it’s hard to deny that a sequence of events took place in a linear sense, if not strictly in a causal one.
I too forgot about Church. But even so the long-term thinking in exchanging Church for Milledge was a sound one for a team that couldn’t hope to compete in ‘08. Hey, long-term thinking! Whaddaya know about that?
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
by Roger on
May 20, 2008 11:50 AM PDT
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Ryan Church has been crushing for the mets
He and Synder were what Bowden sent for Milledge. Food for thought. But i saw Churchy play a bunch at RFK, and man, unclutch.
Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.
by Andy from DC on
May 20, 2008 10:16 AM PDT
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Good call, I had forgotten Church. He’s definitely the best player Bowden moved in these deals. A nice bat in the OF that never got much playing time in Washington. I think he was injured a few times?
by xanthan on
May 20, 2008 10:23 AM PDT
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I think he was injured a few times?
lol.
understatement of a lifetime?
by WTF on
May 20, 2008 12:33 PM PDT
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He also traded Ryan Church
whom the Nationals have probably misused. Church plays very good D, and is a decent hitter.
Also, the “off field” issues of Milledge and Dukes are vastly different. Milledge’s off field issues are celebrating with fans after hitting a home run, wearing a gigantic wooden cross, and producing a rap album. Dukes’ off the field issues are threatening to kill his wife and children.
I agree with you that I like Bowden’s moves.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on
May 20, 2008 10:26 AM PDT
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Dukes
Don’t forget impregnating teen girls and then throwing bottled sports drinks at them!
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
May 20, 2008 10:51 AM PDT
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Don’t forget impregnating teen girls and then throwing bottled sports drinks at them!
Gamer.
by xanthan on
May 20, 2008 10:54 AM PDT
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While I do agree
That the current lineup is kinda retarded, I think that it’s really not going to make much difference one way or the other. Best way to score more runs is to get new players or develop the young players we have.
And they aren’t developing on the Bench while Aurilia, Durham, Winn, and Castillo get starts.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 20, 2008 7:37 AM PDT 0 recs
What do you mean???!!!
Sitting on wood for a few years does great things for wine and whiskeys/whiskies.
DFA all Giants over 34 years old.
by Mayor of 311 on
May 20, 2008 8:19 AM PDT
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I was thinking
cattle prods for the opposing pitchers? That would distract them, allowing for more Giants runs.
by tyrannoman on May 20, 2008 8:59 AM PDT 0 recs
Sign David Blaine
Maybe he could cause the opposing team to be distracted while we circle the bases, scoring at will.
Oh yeah, we’d have to already be on base to do that. Nevermind.
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
by Lyle on May 20, 2008 9:15 AM PDT 0 recs
Sign David Bowie
I’m sure he still scores far more often the the Giants.
No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
by Skaldheim on
May 20, 2008 11:50 AM PDT
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Kill the other teams' catchers
K/WP.
Repeat.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
by S.F. Giangst on May 20, 2008 10:04 AM PDT 0 recs
Force feed the Hacking Dead members more prune juice?
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
by daveinexile on May 20, 2008 12:01 PM PDT 0 recs
worked for the original LT, for those other Giants…
by tyrannoman on
May 20, 2008 3:03 PM PDT
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Best ways to score runs:
1. Hit the ball
2. Hit the ball where there isn’t a defender
3. Hit the ball over the fence
4. Run around the bases
5. Cross home plate
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on May 20, 2008 1:22 PM PDT 0 recs
If
If you want the Giants to score more runs, why are you replacing one of the few who is hitting decently (Ray Durham) with a guy who can hardly get the ball out of the infield (Manny Burriss)?
I think teams have been shown in simulations to do best with the pitcher hitting eighth, but that usually assumes there is a middle of the lineup.
by sharksrog on May 22, 2008 2:47 PM PDT 0 recs
Platoon
One way to score more runs is to platoon. With a lefty on the mound, if the intent is to score more runs, only a fool would have Rich Aurilia and Dan Ortmeier on the bench instead of John Bowker and Fast Freddie Lewis.
Personally I would play the veterans only to trade them and would play the youngsters in order to realize that most of them will fail and need to be replaced themselves. But if one’s objective is to score runs, he would be well advised to play Ray Durham against all comers and both Rich Aurilia and Dan Ortmeier against southpaws.
by sharksrog on May 22, 2008 2:53 PM PDT 0 recs
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