Please Send Velez Down! (Who Should Get Promoted?)
by hairball
on May 19, 2008 8:59 PM PDT
That's it. I've had it.
I can't take any more of the Eh-you-suck-fest.
I confess- I don't know baseball all that well, at least compared to some of you. But I know it better than Eugenio! And what is unbelievable to me is that the Giants have guys that can do what he does, without the GIGANTIC drawbacks, and yet they keep him up here!
Tonight, if he doesn't go into confused gerbil mode on the basepaths, Lewis comes up to bat. The same Lewis that makes Bochy look like an ass-hat for not playing him more regularly against LHs by hitting two triples and getting walked. Of course, that's the same Bochy who has committed himself to Ve-loser. Ugh.
I saw Velez on Friday, when he came up to the plate in a pinch-hit situation that was tailor-made for Ortmeier, and he slapped at the first pitch and sucked all the wind out of the potential rally going on.
Velez makes me forget how bad the human double-play machine, the man who could somehow create a double-play even if he were intentionally walked, the man that makes me long for Pedro, is. Next to Velez, Castillo is amazing. A real ball-player!
So, I'm not going to do a poll- I'm just gonna ask you all straight up- when Eugenio finally does get sent down, who should be promoted?
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Personally, I vote for my boy
Brett Harper. But only if they’re willing to try him at 3b. Hey, he’s played like, 38 games there. A long time ago.
Okay, if the Giants don’t have the cojones for that, bring up Justin Leone.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on May 19, 2008 9:08 PM PDT 0 recs
+1
he should already be up, velez needs more than half a season down in AAA
"But if he's swinging at real flies, well, in that case there are two definite solutions: 1) Fresno 2) Ritalin." - howtheyscored
by CPGiant756 on
May 19, 2008 9:38 PM PDT
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Schierholtz CANNOT PLAY Thirdba… Oh Harper? Uh, I think your boy might be a little big. Seems to DH a bunch, but I’m excited for him at 1b.
Castillo hits doubles.
by kennv on
May 20, 2008 6:04 AM PDT
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Harper hasn’t played 3B since 2003, early in his minor league career. There’s a reason he went to first fulltime. He’s not quick enough for the position and it’s been said even his defense at first isn’t consistent. That’s not someone I’d want to stick at third.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
May 20, 2008 6:56 AM PDT
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I don't disagree
I was trying to make it clear that my tongue was, if not firmly planted, at least nudged up against the cheek. It was basically a pitch for Leone (I would want Harper up if Bowker wasn’t so intriguing, and if Orty Ort didn’t exist, which Bochy just informed me he doesn’t. Ah, it all makes so much more sense now).
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 20, 2008 10:44 AM PDT
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I fell into the sarchasm there, didn’t I?
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
May 20, 2008 10:52 AM PDT
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Little V have any options left?
Apparently the new pipeline thats feeds SF comes from A ball. OK, kidding aside, with Burriss to back-up both 2b and SS and with Aurilia able to back up all four infield positions why not try someone who can actually hit. Denker is on the 40-man roster and plays 2b and 3b but why not Brian Horwitz?
by wilriv21 on May 19, 2008 9:11 PM PDT 0 recs
I gave some thought to Denker as well
Don’t know much about Horwitz.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 19, 2008 9:13 PM PDT
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i thought about denker but then realized that i think the giants have a plan for denker, he has great potential to be 2009’s starting 2b and 3b so maybe the giants plan is for denker just to be a sept call up and give him the season at AAA to be ready for his breakout year in 09, less risk for him to be a velez type bust
"But if he's swinging at real flies, well, in that case there are two definite solutions: 1) Fresno 2) Ritalin." - howtheyscored
by CPGiant756 on
May 19, 2008 9:41 PM PDT
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Totally agree here, its been a pain watching him field too, hes made some major mistakes, he needs to be sent down. I have no idea who should be sent up though. Do we have any other second baseman, anyone that could hit for power.
"...and Bocock is in the whole"
by sleeknerve on May 19, 2008 9:24 PM PDT 0 recs
i dont get all the complaining about AA players
not cutting it at the major league level…not exactly a shocker…
by slojoe on May 19, 2008 9:25 PM PDT 0 recs
This is not complaining about a AA player
Burriss is doing more than I thought he would. Bocock was what he was. Velez is something different entirely.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 19, 2008 9:33 PM PDT
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all three of those belong in the minors
why is anyone surprised….. only the pitchers they brought up have any legitimate reason being here
by slojoe on
May 19, 2008 9:50 PM PDT
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Well , it's not a surprise.
But the gaffes are coming at such an alarming rate that one has to wonder whether or not Velez is in such a mental funk that he can’t help but fail. If that’s the case send him back and bring in fresh meat , ha haaaa!cough.
Aaron "Swag" Rowand
by victor frankenstein on
May 19, 2008 10:07 PM PDT
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Eugenio is getting to the age where he has to show some stuff in the Majors. He can use a little more seasoning in Fresno, but if these these two months are how he’s gonna play at the major league level… ouchy.
Castillo hits doubles.
by kennv on
May 20, 2008 5:52 AM PDT
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well a year and a half ago he was in Augusta
great year, but he skipped a level last year and tried to this year…
by slojoe on
May 20, 2008 8:11 AM PDT
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He needs to play everyday
but he’s not going to get that opportunity here, so yea he should be sent down. I’d like to see us bring up Travis Denkar, he’s hitting .320 at the moment and I believe he can play both 2nd and 3rd.
by superk1ng on May 19, 2008 9:25 PM PDT 0 recs
I say..
Justin Liowney.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on
May 19, 2008 11:08 PM PDT
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but Denker was cold while in AA Conn. He also needs to play everyday. Would he do that in SF? I’m almost worried that sending Velez down will take time from Denker in Fresno.
Castillo hits doubles.
by kennv on
May 20, 2008 5:54 AM PDT
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get out of my head please.
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
by daveinexile on
May 20, 2008 12:07 PM PDT
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I'm cool with it.
I guess what we would need is another middle infielder. Preferably one who can hit RHP, because Burriss doesn’t seem likely to do that.
you can't block the Bocock
by oldjacket on May 19, 2008 9:28 PM PDT 0 recs
As shiny as Denker's AVG is...
can we please let him spend the full season at Fresno? No need to rush him on a wasted season anyway.
Noonan. Nooooonan!
by Giant Fan in Singapore on May 19, 2008 9:43 PM PDT 0 recs
+1
I don’t think Velez needs to be wasted up here either, let him get better down in the minors.
by withclubsauce on
May 19, 2008 9:49 PM PDT
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and McClain!
Or, bring up the backup catcher from Augusta and teach him to play 2B.
by natteringnabob on
May 19, 2008 10:23 PM PDT
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I’ve been saying this for a while.
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on May 19, 2008 10:31 PM PDT 0 recs
Me too
Sometimes I mix it up with “those” or “that” though for a bit of flavor.
by Natto on
May 19, 2008 10:35 PM PDT
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Bad move
I prefer to stick with what I know. This is the best strategy.
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on
May 19, 2008 11:11 PM PDT
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Yes I agree.
Guy just doesn’t seem to know baseball. Listened to the game tonight and you just CAN’T get picked off in that situation. And the thing is, he’s gotten picked off in those situations several times already. He isn’t learning. If you can’t get a read on a pitcher, then don’t steal off the pitcher. Maybe make him talk to Roberts and he can get something out of it. It’s just painful to lose like that. The offense not hitting? OK. But stupid moves like getting picked off, getting into a run down (see Aurilia) and those types of things are terrible.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on May 19, 2008 11:11 PM PDT 0 recs
The worst part about it
He was put in as a pinch-runner!
Only 926 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on
May 19, 2008 11:50 PM PDT
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No, the worst part is
We can see it coming, and the Giants coaching staff evidently can’t. Because if they could, then it’s like they’re trying to lose. So I assume they can’t. Which means they are incompetent.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 20, 2008 10:47 AM PDT
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The Aurilia
rundown was the right play. The hit and run was on (I’m sure to keep Castillo from hitting into a DP), and Castillo promptly struck out. Aurilia has to stop in that situation, if for no other reason than to try to get Rowand in from third. Blame here goes to Castillo for not being able to put the bat on the ball.
by tyrannoman on
May 20, 2008 8:40 AM PDT
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Or for swinging
A ball 4 in that situation doesn’t hurt the runners, right?
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 20, 2008 10:49 AM PDT
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Well..
Blame here can go to me too. Just because I heard it while helping customers at my job as well from my laptop speakers. Not paying attention to the game has it’s disadvantages, as well as it’s advantages.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Freezing Giants Blog
by WalrusMan on
May 20, 2008 8:45 PM PDT
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Velez' baserunning is horrible
Sometimesit feels like it’s the Revenge of Ruben Rivera watching the kid. Having said that, does Roberto Kelly actually provide a service as 1st base coach? You know, like pointing out to Eugene that there’s a left-handed pitcher on the mound who’s got a decent pickoff move, so, cuidado?
Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.
by Kitspool on
May 20, 2008 8:45 AM PDT
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I'm sure he does
and he probably yells “BACK!” really loud too. It does sometimes seem that Velez just dosen’t get it. I want to love the guy, but when your best assest is blazing speed, you better damn well be at least a good baserunner.
I’d ask Dave Roberts and Roberto Kelly to spend an hour a day helping him learn the ropes. Anything, really. He’s played poorly enough to lose his job to Ray Durham.
by tyrannoman on
May 20, 2008 9:03 AM PDT
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FREE THE GREAT LEONO!
He can play a ton of positions and he can hit homeruns. He’s an older guy, so I don’t feel bad about not playing him everyday. As long as he has passable defense he sounds like a great 25th man for the roster. Send Velez to Conn to work on bunting every at bat. Don’t mess with Denker’s time at 2b in Fresno, he needs to play while he’s hot. Maybe he has put it together.
Castillo hits doubles.
by kennv on May 20, 2008 6:00 AM PDT 1 recs
While I love Velez
And I think she should play everday – if he’s not going to play every day here he should be playing in Fresno. Last night to me it was very clear that Bochy sent him in and said “steal second”. So he went w/o a good read. totally picked off. Not good.
Bochy seems comitted to playing durham, and Velez isnt going to get any better sitting on the bench – so yeah, let’s send him down.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 20, 2008 7:32 AM PDT 0 recs
My love affair with Eugenio
is fading fast. I don’t mind some of the errors, but the mental blindspots are really gettting to me. The ball in Philly that Aki Bono could’ve at least gloved to keep the runner at third, the wild throws to bases where the runner is clearly safe…I am really starting to question his baseball instincts. He will never have the bat to play corner OF, he dosen’t have the defensive chops to play CF, and he can’t seem to man 2B at all…oh yeah, for a guy with that kind of speed he can’t take a walk either. I’m sad now.
Can Nate play SS? I remember reading he can’t play 3B….
by tyrannoman on
May 20, 2008 8:43 AM PDT
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+1 for sumo reference
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 20, 2008 11:07 AM PDT
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+2 for groug-baiting
All-Father Watch: 1.16 ERA, 4 saves, 0.99 WHIP, 23 Ks in 23 1/3 IP
by EliminateMe on
May 20, 2008 11:44 AM PDT
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Velez is not a real prospect, the Major League Bench is the best spot for him. His real value is going to be as a bench player, probably for an AL team, so best to let him learn the role.
Actually, we should send Burriss down to AAA so he can get frequent AB’s and leave Bocock, who is also not a real prospect, to ride the Major League pine.
Alternatively the Giants should not play Durham and let Burriss take the AB’s at 2B. But real prospects have no business on the bench.
And leave Denker alone. He’s finally started to have a little success, let him build on it before having him ride the pine and face Major League pitching as a pinch hitter.
by Change Up on May 20, 2008 9:36 AM PDT 0 recs
Buttiss will get plenty of ABs...
...as soon as Durham and his .362 OBP (shiny!) are shipped off to a contender.
All-Father Watch: 1.16 ERA, 4 saves, 0.99 WHIP, 23 Ks in 23 1/3 IP
by EliminateMe on
May 20, 2008 11:47 AM PDT
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Many Butts
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 20, 2008 12:02 PM PDT
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Isn’t that old man Seymour Butts kid?
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
by daveinexile on
May 20, 2008 12:14 PM PDT
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Oops, I misspoke.
Buttiss isn’t gonna get any playing time until they trade Durham and Burriss.
All-Father Watch: 1.16 ERA, 4 saves, 0.99 WHIP, 23 Ks in 23 1/3 IP
by EliminateMe on
May 20, 2008 2:28 PM PDT
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Have any of you jr. GMs seen any of these guys play? Because bringing them up based on stats you read on the internet, watching them flail, a la Bocock, Velez, etc is a ridiculous way to run a MLB franchise. One thing we have learned is that most players need development time in the majors and that watching high school level errors in MLB games is infuriating.
I think we have to admit – and adjust to – the fact our minor league players, pitching notwithstanding, are a year or two away.
by allfrank on May 20, 2008 12:40 PM PDT 0 recs
Yup.
Which is why I’m pretty reluctant to play the rotating door game w/ the minor leaguers. I don’t profess to know crap about any of these kids other than the ones I am seeing in SF.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 20, 2008 12:51 PM PDT
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I’m pretty sure most of the reasoning here is based on what we have been watching.
by Natto on
May 20, 2008 12:56 PM PDT
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According to my stat-o-matic machine
I’m 99% sure of that.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 20, 2008 2:37 PM PDT
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Psh, WATCH the games??? Screw that!
I didn’t have to watch Bocock play to know when the year started that he’d be a total failure as a hitter!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
May 20, 2008 1:28 PM PDT
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Frank, if you’re thinking a year or two is going to improve Bocock, Burriss, or most likely Velez, I fear you got another adjustment acoming.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
by Roger on
May 20, 2008 2:51 PM PDT
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This is very typical Ginats thinking
Bring a guy up from A ball, and then criticize him for making mistakes.
I don’t like the mistakes either, and I agree that if Herbie gets picked off all the time his speed is utterly valueless.
But a lot of this criticism goes to the skipping of levels, doesn’t it. 96 games at AA and 4 games in Fresno shouldn’t be enough to make anybody ready. Unless they already happen to BE ready. And, I realize I’m assuming that there is some baseball instruction to be had somewhere in the Ginats system. But if it really is pointless to send someone to Fresno or CT to develop, it’s time to get out the red pencil and start “downsizing” the minor league staff.
I’m curious as to what they intend to do when they do ship him out, and where they will ship him to, and whether his confidence will be shaken.
by natteringnabob on May 20, 2008 4:28 PM PDT 0 recs
also
might be nice to pick a position for the guy, rather than pretend he’s Campy Campaneris and play him at all 9 spots during a game.
by natteringnabob on
May 20, 2008 4:29 PM PDT
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But he played plenty of organized ball before the Giants
Time spent with another MLB team’s system (the Blue Jays?), plus time spent in another country. Some of these things you’d really think he should have learned by now.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 20, 2008 4:57 PM PDT
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Free Travis Denker!
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Freezing Giants Blog
by WalrusMan on May 21, 2008 10:49 AM PDT 0 recs
No one
No one from the 40-man roster deserved or was ready to be promoted, but the Giants had to promote SOMEONE, so it turned out to be AA-caliber Travis Denker.
The Giants have come out with some really horrible comments lately, a couple of them through their advertising.
All out all the time was FAR too easy to convert to all outS all the time, of course.
And while I had suspected that Brian Sabean wasn’t really the Giants’ general manager, I didn’t fully realize it until the commercial told me that gamers realize the REAL general manager sits in the bleachers, where I don’t believe Brian has been spotted lately.
Now Brian himself says that the Giants went with Brian Bocock and Manny Burriss (and presumedly now Travis Denker) because they had more upside than the AAAA players they could have promoted.
Note to Brian: Didn’t you even consider the negative effect on a player’s confidence that might come from being rushed? Of COURSE your young guys have a higher ceiling than the AAAA guys. Heck, they might even reach that ceiling. But rushing them doesn’t help the chances.
You should have made the decision to LEAVE the higher-ceiling guys in the minors because of their younger age, higher ceilings and lesser readiness for the major leagues right now. You considered some of the right things, but came to precisely the wrong conclusion.
To paraphrase an old joke, when can we tell that Brian Sabean is making a mistake? He’s either making a move or opening his mouth.
by sharksrog on May 22, 2008 3:02 PM PDT 0 recs
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