Can people lay off Castillo yet?
by Karlifornia on May 18, 2008 3:48 PM PDT
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PrintI need to open up this fanpost addressing a certain something that drives me so insane that I can't write about anything else.
JOSE CASTILLO IS THIRD ON THE TEAM IN WALKS. Anyone who says "He can't take a walk" is just living off whatever the scouting report said. He has learned to take walks. He doesn't get into 0-2 counts more than any other player. He just doesn't. I don't see where people are getting this information based on his time with the Giants. It doesn't add up.
He has 6 errors this season. Brian Bocock, who is supposedly Vizquel reincarnated, has 4.
He's hitting .259, Pedro Feliz did that how many times as a Giant? ONCE. In 2004, he hit .276.
I also take issue with the people who took issue with Feliz as a Giant. Yeah, he hit for a low average and struck out a lot. But he was a legitimate 20 homer guy with an excellent glove. I'll take that any day.
I think the lack of impact hitters in this lineup makes everyone worse, as a jose castillo is looked upon to BE an impact hitter. On any other team, Castillo is a pretty darn good 8th hitter. On the Giants, he hits 6th, 2nd, or some other place that makes him look sub-par, when he is actually an average player.
Thoughts? I'd like to hear from FairweatherFan about Castillo, and I'd love to hear from Grant about Feliz.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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I don't wish to draw any more all caps ire, but
The Giants are last in the NL in taking walks, a cool 100 walks behind the league leading Cards. Only the Twins have fewer and the Twins, Mariners and Pads are the only teams with a worse OBP. So I’m not entirely sure that being third on one of the worst walk-taking teams in the majors is that great an endorsement. Also, I’m not sure there is such a thing as a “pretty darn good 8th place hitter” unless you’re speaking of lineup so powerful that it’s actually got 8 pretty darn good hitters in it. Otherwise, poor hitters are poor hitters no matter where in the lineup you’re forced to stick them.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
Bad Methodology
Looking at STDEV from the mean on BB/(BB+AB) the Giants are “worst” but not a lot worse than Houston or even Florida. And the Giants still have a better team OBP than Washington whose BB rate [as defined above] is league average.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
by S.F. Giangst on May 18, 2008 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions
why do these come threads come up whe I have a lot to get done?
I support Jose Castillo. Goooo JOE!
Castillo hits doubles.
Maybe this is just me...
Probably it’s just me, but I think if you want to indicate a long, extended “GO” cheer, the way to do it is to make it all caps, and add hyphens between the o’s. Like this: GO-O-O-O-O!!
If you don’t want to go all caps, I think you can also add hyphens with an “h” at the end. Like this: Go-o-o-o-oh!!
For me, whenever I see “Goooo”, I think of the word “goo”, which, honestly, always kind of creeps me out just a little bit.
That's all I can stands, I can't stands no more!
Jose Castillo has played better than we have a right to expect from some close to the minimum salary major league waiver wire pickup. I don’t know why everyone is so hard on him. Be hard on the GM who had a whole offseason to plug holes and didn’t plug a single one of them.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
+1
Jose Castillo should not be this team’s third baseman. This predicament was created by A) Sabean’s inability to find a serviceable 3B and B) Management’s lack of confidence in a player (Ortmeier) who they had pledged to give a shot a 1B and then thought better of it, causing aurilia to start at 1st instead of 3rd. Saying that the team replaced Feliz with Castillo does not tell the whole story because 90% of us were on board when we thought getting a new 3B meant acquiring/signing a younger 3B who was either serviceable or a prospect, not a waiver claim pickup that is in his late 20’s. Even so, at this point, Aurilia at 3rd full time and an Ort/Bowker platoon looks a lot better than the Aurilia/Castillo corner sitiuation.
Todd Jennings: Next up on the Non-prospect Backup Catcher Train. Next Stop: The Pine at AT&T Park
by Speedforthewin on May 18, 2008 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
It’s not Jose Castillo’s fault that he plays like Jose Castillo when he’s expected to play above Jose Castillo.
Blame Sabean.
by withclubsauce on May 18, 2008 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Amen brother!
Adoptive papa to Omar...so basically I'm screwed.
by PacBellBoozer on May 19, 2008 2:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Jose "RallyKiller" Castillo
I would like to see GM Sabean trade Ray Durham and then have Castillo be the 2b.
Durham
Is now the owner of a nice shiny .300 avg.
There must be a team or two out there interested. Not sure which teams though – probably need to wait for injuries and just hope Durham maintains that nice shiny .300.
Giants pay salary and get an OKish kind of prospect or get org filler and only pay part of the salary.
If only he wasn’t limited to only 2B – and a very restriced 2B at that…
hopefully that team won’t watch actual tapes of how Durham has gotten his batting average up to .300. Yesterday it was a routine grounder to second that hit the base and a bouncer back to the mound that hit off the pitcher’s glove. Any team scouting Durham would have to see that the things that once made him a desirable player, (speed and power) are pretty much gone. All you have left is an aging player who’s constantly hurt and doesn’t play his position very well.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
Castillo is also third on the team in plate appearances. He gets the walks just because he’s in the lineup every day.
For Giants with over 140 ABS
Rowand 14BB, Castillo 13BB, Lewis 16 BB, Molina 5 BB and Winn 11BB.
Getting walks cause he’s in the lineup everyday is still means he is actually getting some walks. After today he as two more ABs than Lewis and 3 fewer walks. One of these guys is young and dynamic and the other is a target of derision. Castillo is several months younger.
He’s also 2nd in Runs and 3rd in RBIs. Clearly those are game specific stats that aren’t as good for evaluation as a variety of other indicators. The point here is that in counting stats, he is getting his, despite primarily batting at the bottom of the order. He’s third in Plate appearances and 2-3rd in a lot of other counting stats. AS for some other stats, his Linedrive% is around .200 IIRC. His OPS + over 100. and he’s dragged his OPS over 750. BOOOO! His RC still blows, his DP still blows (the two are linked), and his defense still blows. At risk of the jinx, when was his last error? Let’s see if a larger sample size, and some on the job training can help him out.
FwF will argue he has a horrible approach to situational hitting. Some of us were unlucky enough to witness the bases loaded situation today get resolved as three consecutive major league batters swung at the first pitch and hit into weak grounders (at least Castillo hit the first one foul). But he does seem to have a hitters approach – going with the pitch to the opposite field, and poking doubles into the gaps. When you look at league leaders in 2Bs, ‘one of these things is not like the other.’ But at least he is hitting them.
Castillo hits doubles.
Neither Jose Castillo nor Pedro Feliz are particularly defensible. I just don’t get it. They’re better than nothing, and Castillo is, dollar for dollar, better than Feliz, but that only means anything within a very very limited context.
Neither one are good players. Neither one are average players. Both are bad players.
Anyway, I’ll lay off Castillo when he lays off the first pitch in a bases loaded situation against a pitcher he’s never faced before. And even then, I’ll only lay off of him briefly.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
That's dollar for dollar right now
but the continued comments coming from the front office about how pleased they are with the pickup (“inordinately proud” in the words of Chris Haft) are starting to make me nervous that a classic Sabean preemptive overpaid extension could be in the offing before ‘08 is done.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
I have to disagree that Feliz is a bad player. He was disappointing here, but I believe that is because we had such high hopes for him. His glove is near, or at, the top of the league. He has legit 20 HR power, and is a smart baserunner. Feliz could never take the next step to become a great hitter. Too many sliders low and away looked far too tempting.
Castillo is fine. I don’t think he’s as good as Frandsen, who he really replaced in the lineup.
I'll lay off Castillo
He’s the only movable veteran with trade value, we need to start talking him up around the league before he reverts to his career averages.
Quick, call the leading sport talk show in the market of every team which needs a 3B and sell, sell SELL!!!
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Well Said...
I’ll lay off Castillo when he lays off the first pitch in a bases loaded situation against a pitcher he’s never faced before.
Wow, That is an amazingly eloquent line HTS.
I couldn’t have said it any better myself. Castillo is not good – he is a hack. He’s not good at any point in the lineup because of his complete inability to hit situationally.
He is a liability in the batters box, nearly as likely to destroy a rally as continue it. His walk rate is 8.4%. That’s not very good. I would love to take the time to calculate his GIDP percentage. He’s done it in 7.1 % of his at bats… I wonder how many at bats w/ a runner @ 1st and less than 2 outs he has had ? Alright, I looked it up – 51. That means his GIDP % is 20 %. That is ridiculous! And that’s actually the # w/ a runner on 1st, I don’t know how many of those were with less than 2 outs – but certainly less than 51, so the % is actually higher.
He is below NL average in almost very offensive catagory. How does that make him an average hitter?
He leads the NL in GIDP:
Grounded into Double Plays
Castillo-SFG 10
Feliz-PHI 9
Loney-LAD 9
Kotsay-ATL 8
Escobar-ATL 7
Keppinger-CIN 7
Milledge-WSN 7
Schumaker-STL 7
‘nuff said. And he’s not a moveable Veteran, he’s a washed up used-to-be-maybe prospect. If he just couldn’t hit it would be one thing, but I am sick of the GIDP.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
okay you don't want Castillo
but from your chart there… would you turn down Loney, Escobar, or Milledge?
GIDP is the most frustrating thing. See my burning hatred of DP Pierzynski, for example. I totally understand why you hate on Castillo for it. But it’s not the whole picture, and a lot of it is luck and sample size.
Actually, add Pierzynski to those 8 player in your chart there, and you have yourself a pretty exciting team.
Castillo hits doubles.
Yes, but what do all of those players except Feliz and Castillo have ?
Above average (and in some cases way above average) offensive statistics. It’s one thing if you GIDP a lot, but also drive in a lot of runs.
But if you just GIDP a lot – thats a different situation. It’s the combination of inability to produce @ a league average level for the position with the lack of situational hitting (playing smart) that are the two main nails in the coffin.
I mean, Bocock couldn’t hit – but you could at least count on him to not totally screw the situation up. Castillo seems to combine not being able to hit (not quite to Bocock level, but still) with an amazing predilection for making the situation worse. Everyone on here slams Velez and is ready to send him to Fresno because his glove has given the opponent a few free outs this year, but Castillo has given the opponent even more free outs w/ the bat.
That is actively hurting your team. I’m not sure how else to explain it. GIDP like Castillo tends to is the equivalent of booting the ball in the infield. And not booting it ‘cause it is a hard play – but booting it ‘cause you don’t know how to play your position.
Castillo doesn’t know how to hit with a runner on 1st. He doesn’t know how to avoid the double play ball. Mostly, everyone else on the team (Even the young kids) know how to do that (as evidenced by their low GIDP #’s).
Why should he get a free pass for his exceptional suckitude at one of the key skills in baseball, situational hitting?
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 18, 2008 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Hold on!
He leads the league in GIDP?? Finally, a 2008 Giant leads the league in some sort of hitting catagory!!
Never!
-Castillo leads the league in GDP. For being on a team where he is third in walks, that is quite an accomplishment.
-Walks? Bocock, Aurilia, Ortmeier, Holm, Durham and Vizquel all have walked in a higher percentage of PA’s. No brownie points for having more walks than Molina (5), Velez (6), or Bowker (-3). Castillo has zero patience on a team with negative patience.
-Errors? Bocock had more opportunities. They were successful opportunities.
Hitting Castillo second shows just how stupid Bochy is. He doesn’t get on base, and he grounds into double plays. Naturally, that’s the type of hitter you want hitting at the top of the lineup, right behind your only real hitter with real patience. (OK, Rowand can hit. And Durham’s statistics look surprisingly good – can we trade him now?)
What made Pedro a “legitimate 20 HR guy?” The fact that he hit 20 HR? He hasn’t slugged over .428 since 2004. 2004 was also the last time his OBP was over .295. At least he knew how to play third. He made no sense to a rebuilding team, and neither does Castillo, unless he fetches something in a trade.
Castillo is on a hot streak. He’ll cool down. And I’ll be right here, with a bag of popcorn and a cup of irrational hatred.
I’m scared that Castillo won’t bring back a prospect in a trade, and that he’s earned a spot on this team for the rest of the year. When I’m old and brittle, and I tell my grandchildren of the last time the Giants lost 100 games, I’ll have to bring them in really close and whisper “Jose Castillo was our starting third baseman. All year long.”
Two questions. 1) Can he get us something in a trade? and 2) is he our new scapegoat? I like him as scapegoat; he’s still kinda new, and I get to say “Pirates’ trash.”
Bengie Molina: stretching doubles into singles since 1998.
Castillo as our starting third baseman
All year long? Not really a problem.
Next year and after? A big problem.
Hopefully the first is the most that would happen.
Only 927 games until the end of Zito's contract
We need Castillo on the team to get all of the ArrrrBIs!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 18, 2008 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions
What be a pirate's favorite fast food restaurant?
by withclubsauce on May 18, 2008 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Harrrrr-dees
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
by S.F. Giangst on May 19, 2008 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
How ironic is it that we finally get rid of Feliz and manage to replace him with the only player in the league that has hit into more DP’s than Pedro?? How does Brian Sabean continue to keep his job??
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
one word:
ok i got nothin.
Bengie Molina: stretching doubles into singles since 1998.
That’s four words.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 19, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't really worry about him too much
when the team is good again, he won’t be on it.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on May 18, 2008 7:46 PM PDT reply actions
Exactly
The question that I care about he most however is how long are they going to suck. With a decent payroll and nary a winning season since 2004…... this is starting to become a pretty good losing streak.
Bring me the head of Barry Zito!
Well Said. Four years of losing seasons is pretty bad.
And I think there is a very strong case for the team at least playing over 500 next season if the right moves are made.
Talking about Castillo as anything other than a warm body at 3b is not one of those moves.
And shit, we’ve got AAAA 3rd basmen. Why did we have to go get someone else’s AAAA 3rd baseman?
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 18, 2008 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions
In fact, 4 years equals the franchise low
The Giants have only twice before had 4 consecutive losing seasons in their 125 year history. Once from 73-77 (including one 80-81 season) and once from 1899-1902 (immediately preceding John McGraw).
Their current win % for the ‘05-08 seasons is .450 which puts it safely worse than the .465 % of the ‘73-’77 era. If it drops much further this year they could push past the .447% of the ‘83-86 nadir (which included one winning season) for the second worst 4 year period in franchise history. The 1899-1902 period safely claims the worst with an abysmal .392 winning percentage.
So McGowan’s era will come very close to having had both the winningest and losingest periods in Giants history.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
Actually
The Oblong of Life.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 19, 2008 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
couple other stats he ranks high in...
4th (tied) in the majors in doubles (15) and 5th (tied) in triples (3).
Is he the long term 3rd baseman, no. But he is not bad for a guy off the scrap heap. There might have been more disciplined hitters out there or guys with more power, but his overall defensive and offensive abilities have been pretty good for a waiver wire pickup.
I think Giant fans were pretty fed up with almost a decade of watching Pedro Feliz, and the new guy has to get some kind of grace period. The best thing I can say about Castillo is that I would rather see him at the plate than Pedro Feliz, and I don’t really care if the numbers say otherwise. It’s sort of like the Knicks replacing Isiah Thomas with Donnie Walsh and Mike D’Antoni. You think the fans are going to complain if the team gets off to a slow start??
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
Rx,
I get what you’re saying but it’s still funny to me that people are trying to defend a guy that’s never been good, never will be good, and is worse than the terrible 3B he is replacing.
I’ve heard everything from “Dude, he hits doubles!” to “Well, whadya expect! He’s a waiver claim!” and it seems that after every game from Castillo where he gets a couple of hits one of these posts pops up trying to extol his virtues.
And I don’t follow the NBA outside of the playoffs but hasn’t D’Antoni had some success as a headcoach? Castillo has never been good and has like 5 seasons under his belt to show us that.
its only May
dude, before you give him the batting title and a gold glove, why don’t we wait until at least august before we say he is better than Happy Pete. You could put a cardboard cut-out of Happy Pete at the plate and his OBP would be better than the real Pete.
www.myspace.com/cynemamusic.com
by Cynema the Band on May 19, 2008 6:11 AM PDT reply actions
I’m not saying he’s better than Pedro Feliz. I said I was sick of watching Pedro Feliz for the last ten years, and I’m happy to see anybody else at that spot. There’s a good chance that in a couple of months Pedro Feliz will have far better numbers than Jose Castillo. The good thing about Castillo is that because he’s a waiver wire pickup they can easily dump him. Giving Pedro Feliz a new contract with security would have meant we would continue to be stuck with watching his bad atbats on a daily basis for at least the next two or three years.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
I'm happy to see anyone else at that spot
That is what I thought, too. Then they managed to find quite likely the ONE person who I would rather watch less than Pedro Feliz.
Seriously, Castillo is a worse version of Pedro. He is the same style player, just not as good.
Puke.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 19, 2008 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm laying off Castillo . .
. . . for now.
He’s now hitting adequately for a cheap guy. He’s improved his approach recently and I think there’s a significant luck effect to GIDP.
He does blow chunks on D, though. It takes him about twenty minutes to get the ball out of his glove, and his throwing accuracy is . . . adventurous.
Also I feel like we tend to scapegoat individual players when it comes to approach issues. Pedro Feliz embodied what was wrong with this organization’s hitting philosophy, but he was hardly the only one to engage in foolish aggresiveness.
Case in point, yesterday with the bases loaded and nobody out, all three batters swung at the first pitch, resulting in double play balls. That kinda crap reeks of “organizational philosophy”.
you can't block the Bocock
As mentioned, he’s walked more than others because he’s had more at-bats than most others. if you look at the amount of walks he gets per plate appearance then he’s only 9th on the team (if you ignore pitchers) And that’s on a team that’s on the the worst in the league at taking walks! So his walk rate is in fact bad.
With regard to his errors, they’re not a good way to to judge defense, the better defensive measures have him as having bad defense! And 6 errors isn’t exactly something to be pleased about. At least Feliz had good defense with his bad offense!
Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!
Honestly...
It is not Castillo’s fault, but at this point he needs not to be starting. His presence as the everyday 3B is hurting the development of younger players by being Bruce Bochy’s Veteran Crutch. Velez should be sent to AAA for a month or so so he can improve his hitting and attitude, Castillo should backup 3B and 2B, Aurilia should start at 3B and Ort and Bowker should platoon at 1B. Castillo being the starter prevents Ort and Bowker from developing and allowing management to see what they have at 1B and hurt Fred Lewis’ development by allowing Bochy to sub in Ort in LF every time a lefty starter comes up. So in a way, Castillo is hurting the chances of this team to contend in the next few years by harming development of younger players. I’m not sure if the team could send down Castillo to AAA without sneaking him through waivers, but he could probably pass through anyway. If he could, it would be good to have him at AAA and bring up a backup OF, al la Clay Timpner to allow further development at 1B.
Todd Jennings: Next up on the Non-prospect Backup Catcher Train. Next Stop: The Pine at AT&T Park
There aren’t many third base options inferior to Jose Castillo, but I believe Rich Aurilia is clearly one of them. He’s done, and the occasional homerun doesn’t change that. Also, it’s downright embarrassing to tell people your team sucks because it’s rebuilding, and then to look out there and see 37 year old Rich Aurilia, 37 year old Ray Durham, and 41 year old Omar Vizquel out there on a daily basis. Even if Aurilia IS better I would prefer to see Castillo. He’s a little old for rebuilding too, but age wise he is still not yet in his prime years.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
However...
We are still going see Aurilia anyway, we are stuck with him. I would rather see some future development at one of the corner positions than no development at either corner infield position. As you astutely note, with aurilia at 3rd, 3/4 of the infield is old and shows no promise for the future. However, those 3 players are going to be starting no matter what. Aurilia has the same thing going for him that Castillo does, they both lead the team in not being Pedro Feliz.
Todd Jennings: Next up on the Non-prospect Backup Catcher Train. Next Stop: The Pine at AT&T Park
by Speedforthewin on May 19, 2008 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions
And frankly Aurilia is much better @ not being Pedro Feliz than Castillo
Castillo’s ceiling is probably Pedro Feliz : he finds his lost power and becomes a no patience no situational 20 HR a season guy.
Aurilia seems to have found a groove w/ his suckyness at the plate and compensated for it, not doing anything bad (GIDP) while being able to pop a few HR.
I’m WAY less frustrated with Aurilia than I was at the start of the season. I think he’s figured out how to play w/ the talents he still has.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 19, 2008 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I get that Joe Castle bothers some of us - A Lot. I deeply respect it in fact.
But you can’t sit there look me straight in the eye with a straight face and tell me Pedro was has disciplined at the plate in his age 27 (2002) season. Here is Castle this year. As of this morning the have only 7 P.A.’s difference in their age 27 year so it pretty easy to make comparisons. Joe has produced to the tune of 267/327/452 while Pedro at a 253/281/336 clip. If I could trust myself to gather the figures and do the math right I would try and compare their BABIPs but I can’t so I will leave that for others who are better at the task.
Look at Saturday’s game if you feel the stat sheet is cheating your eyes.. How many 6+ pitch at bats did Joe Castle have? That would have been about a month’s of "disciplined" P.A.’s for Pedro.
As for the Defense that is more a management’s fault. RX covered that nicely and so have others. Tell this season he had not played the hot corner more then 2 dozen times and now he is doing it the hard way. I don’t love the guy but I have to admit he has done a good bit better then I expected. I can live with what i’v seen so far mainly because he is replaceable and he blocks nothing or no one.
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
The mere fact that we are struggling to compare Castillo's performance to Pedro Feliz
Is damning enough. Pedro Feliz is/was a bad offensive player – and I like the guy!
My underlying point is that I can sort of understand his performance as roster filler – but we’ve already got roster filler, why did we need to get him?
And it seems like an aweful waste to be giving so many at bats to a guy who is destined to be DFA’d. There has to be a third baseman somewhere in MLB’s farm system who we could aquire for next to nothing (like, maybe a backup infielder named Jose Castillo?) that might actually have a little upside.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 19, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Sabean trade for a prospect?
I’v seen him swap out of option guys. I’ve seen him take farm hand as filler to round out a trade. But never for trade anyone’s farm help. So while I agree with you in theory the record show that is just not an option he is willing to take. Though we can see Sabean trading for Mora type guy. Castle does prevent that.
To my eye Castle has not completely hung himself yet. He may still have a modest upside. He is playing out of position and it is not the Littlefield era Pirates were a brilliant finders and developers of talent. And just who, of positive value, is Castle blocking? No one.
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
by daveinexile on May 19, 2008 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Explain to me
How playing out of position has caused him to hit into a NL leading # of GIDP?
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 19, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
i dont see why you keep harping on GIDP
just shows hes slow and maybe unlucky – whats the point?
hes not too good – i think most can agree
what minor leaguer we have would you rather see play 3B? there aint much down there
It has nothing to do with being slow or unlucky.
It has to do with his entire approach at the plate. I’ve said this a million times but I will say it again. He does not know how to hit situationally.
The reason that I harp on GIDP is it is an excellent indicator of this. The guy who cannot avoid the ground ball w/ a runner on 1st base is going to be the same guy who cannot hit a flyball w/ less than 2 out and a runner on 3rd, or cannot hit the ball behind a runner at 2nd, or a many other situational opportunities. Baseball is not just about going out there and hitting the ball as hard as you can… it is about being able to hit the ball appropriately for the situation.
The extremely high GIDP rate demonstrates that he has no control over how he hits the ball – he just slaps at it. That reveals a fundamental flaw in his abilities as a MLB player.
Some players can get away with a lack of control because of other abilities, like being able to hit the ball exceptionally hard and/or far. You probably don’t want Bonds at the plate thinking too much about hitting behind the runner – you just want him to crush it because chances are it will work out. Castillo however has average to below average power combined with apparantly zero control. That = bad.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 19, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m entirely on your side in re Castillo, but you’re making waaaaay too much of “situational hitting.” There’s a lot of luck involved in it, and in the grand scheme of things it’s just not that important anyway.
+1
Groundball hitters hit more groundballs, flyball hitters hit more flyballs, and the rest is mostly luck (i.e. when and where you hit them). Since Castillo hits groundballs more than 50% of the time (both this season and for his career) and isn’t fast, he’s very likely to ground into DP’s no matter what his “situational approach” is.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on May 19, 2008 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Says who?
Who says “Situational Hitting” is mostly just luck ?
I have read many accounts from players of all era’s who claim that situational hitting is very much an ability, not luck.
Looking at stats, you can see certain players who appear to better situational hitters than others.
If I am playing ball with my friends, I can alter my swing to hit flyballs more often than groundballs, or vice versa. Do I possess some amazing skill that pro players do not?
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 19, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess you're a better hitter than Wade Boggs.
Wade Boggs - great hitter, right? Known for his bat control, in fact. But he was also a big DP threat - 14 straight years of double-digit DP’s, and 16 out of 18 seasons. Does this mean Boggs had no bat control and just “slapped at the ball”? Or, do you think it’s more likely that it was because 1) He hardly ever struck out, 2) He hit a high percentage of GB (52%), and 3) he didn’t run well?
Conversely, Barry Bonds hit into only about 2/3 of the DP’s Boggs did even though he had about 700 more AB’s in his career. Do you really think this is because he went to the plate trying to avoid a DP? Or because he had better bat control (despite striking out twice as much)? Personally, I think the reasons are these: 1) He struck out more often than Boggs, 2) He was faster than Boggs, 3) He hit an inordinate amount of flyballs and line drives (career GB% = only 41%).
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on May 19, 2008 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
4.) You can draw any curve through two points. It doesn't mean it is representative.
Neither you or I likely has the time or motivation to do a real study on the subject. All we have at this point is qualitative interpretations of the players we watch.
I know for one that if my name were Jose Castillo, and I knew I hit GB’s 50% of the time, and I was up in a DP situation I sure as hell wouldn’t swing at anything that I couldn’t get in the air, even at risk of striking out.
I see plenty of players take “my” approach – and that is called situational hitting. I see other players who do not do that – I call that a lack of situational hitting.
I’ll give the example of Bowker a few days ago. DP situation – and what does he do? Lift a weak fly ball to the SS.
Now how often does Hammerin’ John Bowker hit weak pop flys to the SS? I would bet money that he was at bat trying to elevate the ball and as a result had to give up some effectiveness on a pitch to not hit it on the ground.
Situational hitting.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 19, 2008 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
So, from what I gather…
Every time a hitter hits a fly ball in a DP situation = situational hitting
Every time they hit a groundball = lack of situational hitting
You’re right, it’s much easier to get your head around it that way.
And by the way, I never said I didn’t believe in situational hitting (though from the way you’re arguing your point, I fell like you must be under the impression that I did). I just don’t think it’s the panacea you seem to think it is.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on May 19, 2008 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Also...
I have to say I think it’s kinda funny that you picked Bowker as your situational hitting poster boy for his hitting the ball in the air, because he’s actually been an extreme flyball hitter since he came up – only a 31% GB rate – and therefore is a good bet to hit the ball in the air in any AB.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on May 19, 2008 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sure why you have to be so black and white
Of course even the best “situational hitter” screws up sometimes, and even the worst lucks out.
Like everything else in baseball, it is about trends. No specific example is worth much.
Castillo has hit into DP’s in 20% of his chances this season. That is a trend.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 19, 2008 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions
“Castillo has hit into DP’s in 20% of his chances this season. That is a trend.”
No, that’s the ugly combination of a groundball hitter with below average ability meeting a little bit of bad luck over a small sample size.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on May 19, 2008 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Think this through, Fairweather. You’re advocating that when a batter comes up with a runner on first and one out, he should purposefully increase his chance of making one out in order to decrease his chance of making two outs. Assuming that this even a positive tradeoff, how much is it worth?
When he makes an out, you’re going to have a runner on first and two out, which is better than being out of the inning but not by much. It’s hard to score from that spot. Run expectancy tables (here) tell us that we can expect to score 0.25 runs in the average inning with 2 outs and a runner on first. But if the batter hits a single, we get runners at first and third with one out—and from there we can expect to score 1.24 runs. The reward when the batter gets a hit is so great that I want him to be trying his very best to do so, even if it means the occasional double play.
But either way, the difference just isn’t that significant. In the overall context of a baseball game, situational hitting is trivial.
If I am playing ball with my friends, I can alter my swing to hit flyballs more often than groundballs, or vice versa. Do I possess some amazing skill that pro players do not?
its not that easy….what level of baseball did you reach? HS? these guys are
facing the best….i could do that- alter swing to hit fly balls in grade school, sometimes HS, and slowpitch – big deal…...but when they’re throwing 90-95
and you’re at the limit of your abilities its not going to be that easy…
btw, if wikipedia is right (crosses fingers), this guy Castillo was ranked as #4 overall prospect in minors by BA at the end of 2003 and was at one time regarded as the Pirates best prospect acc. to USA Today Sports Weekly….
he’s not too good, but maybe 10% chance he gets actually gets better?
i dont see whats lost in giving him an opportunity…maybe the release from Pitt and Florida gives him a wake up call
And neither you or I made it to pro, did we?
And as such aren’t exactly great examples
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 19, 2008 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions
i think the same thing applies -
its going to come down to reaction time….if you’re a marginal player
like Castillo it might be everything you do just to make contact…
you didnt comment on the former #4 prospect status, FWF…
what do you have to say to that? he must have had some ability
at some time….
All that from 1 GiDP? Because Pedro has 9 himself this season already.
Castle is a flawed player. Currently Pedro has the glove work, 1 less GiDP along with a longer, more expensive contract. Castle has 11 more total bases from hits from his 91 points more of OPS. Castle current posts better numbers in both components in it. He is still young enough that he could get better and is at least team controlled for a couple years And the Giants got a sandwich pick. That qualifies as an upgrade. The point with Pedro is to show just how far the Giants have to climb. Castle is just a rung on the ladder not the elevator out of the basement.
Fairweather I like you but you need to be honest with yourself here. You flat out just like the guy. That’s cool. I never liked Tucker (even when he was a Brave) and with all apologies to our A’s brethren I don’t like Swisher much either. I can’t give a logical reason. In fact logic says I should like their game quite a bit but that fact is , for no apparent reason, I don’t like them. That is just the way it is. Castle is that kind of player for you. Luckly he has not made himself important to future Giants squads.
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
I'm not all full of Pedro here
I’m just especially anti Castillo. Whether he is an upgrade over Pedro is really not even the question. Dicussing if crap one is better than crap two is kinda moot, because you’ve still just got crap.
Yeah, I don’t like Castillo as a player. For all I know he is a perfectly nice guy – but I think he is exactly the type of player I dislike.
But I also think I have some evidence to back up my dislike – it’s not just because I don’t like his picture or something. There are plenty of players on this team who are performing poorly yet I am completely willing to cut them slack.
It’s not the 1 GIDP more than Pedro that matters. It’s not a comparison.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 19, 2008 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Comparing to Pedro is most relevant. It is basically 2 of the 3 likely roads the Giants front office could have taken this last 10 months to fill 3rd.
If you want to declare yourself the AntiSharkrog of Castle then I can accept, respect and applaud the move. Personally I always like the small pile of crap instead of the larger one.
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
Jose Castillo is now officially the most popular topic on the MC
Only 927 games until the end of Zito's contract
Or, going back to the depths of the offseason, Velez.
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
There were a few minutes in there when I thought yes, but it turns out I was just confusing Castillo with a Double Western Bacon Cheeseburger.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 20, 2008 2:15 AM PDT up reply actions
ah, thanks for the reminder...
time to head over to CJ for a buy 1 get 1 free $6 burger….
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