How a manager can affect the game.
I've been struggling for a good topic for a fanpost since my last (FAIL) Castillo attack, but I think today's game (as well as the previously posted "What's a matter with Bochy?" fanpost) got my stinkin' mind right.
I've gotten into a few arguements on here as to whether or not the manager, and the specific in-game decisions he makes, ultimately ends up affecting both the game and the season. I've also criticized Bochy for a few decisions, but I have lacked the specific examples to really convince anyone.
So today, while it is still fresh in everyone's mind, I would like to criticize three decisions Bochy made, and talk about why I think they affected the outcome of the game.
Mild disclaimer: While I do think the manager can affect the game, it is ultimately up to the players to win or lose. I'm not trying to suggest that if Bochy made different decisions in these three examples we would have won the game nor am I trying to suggest that today Bochy had the power (but failed to properly exercise it ) to make this game a win. I am however suggesting that, in a few specific situations Bochy did not make the decision that gave his team the best CHANCE to win, and that is what a manager is supposed to do.
Situation A.)
Pinch hitting Bengie Molina for Fred Lewis:
Bottom of the 8th, left handed pitcher in T. Byrdak. Runners on first and second, 1 out. Tie game. Fred Lewis (.287/.358/.471) is pulled for Bengie Molina (.277/.304/.431). Reason for doing so (in my mind)? Lewis has a significant platoon disadvantage (.143/.250/.143) Vs. lefties this year. Also, Bengie makes contact, one that has shown in the past (and this season) the ability to put the ball in play in these sort of situations. Seemingly good reasons.
Reasons not to do so ?
1.) Bengie Molina's platoon disadvantage? (.143/.200/.250). WTF?
You mean that Bengie Molina can't hit lefties, either? In fact - he is 50 points of OBP WORSE than Fred Lewis? (Yeah, it surprised me too).
2.) Bengie Molina is a higher GIDP threat. (4 GIDP this season vs. Lewis' 2 GIDP)
3.) It's not a 2 out situation. GIDP is your worst enemy here, not the strikeout (Molina can be counted on to make contact whereas Lewis is a strikeout threat). BIP% is way less important than OBP.
4.) The runner is not on 3b. In such a case, a fly ball (Something you can count on Molina to provide) does not score the runner. You need a hit or a walk to move the runner to 3b w/o making an out. (Basically, you need the batter to get on base, Lewis' 50 points of OBP are HUGE here)
5.) You lose Molina where he is most valuable - runner on 3b w/ less than 2 outs (Sac Fly, assuming Lewis gets on base)
6.) Dan Ortmeier. Platoon disADVANTAGE? (.345/.406/.517) WTF?
You mean that Good ole Daniel Ortmeier is OWNING lefties this year? Must be small sample size (32 PA's) so let's look at his ML career... .277/.324/.515. Hmm, not as much Ownage, but still dramatically better than either of the two alternatives...
IMO, of three avaliable batters for the situation (Lewis/Molina/Ort) Bochy actually picked the worst (statistically) possible choice.
Situation B.)
Same situation as above, Ray Durham is the runner on 2b. Failing to pinch Run Eugenio Velez for Ray Durham. Reasons not to ? Durham is your current 2b and it's only the 8th inning. (That's the only one I can think of!) Maybe Velez has a stuffy nose?
Reasons I think this should have been done?
1.) Ray Durham is SLOW. Like, really slow. There is a reasonable chance that, of the next two batters, one gets a single. Velez has the extreme speed to almost ensure scoring from 2b (especially on 2 outs if it comes to that). Durham is very questionable, and also displays questionable judgment on his ability to take the extra base. Velez is also a threat to steal 3b, which puts pressure on the pitcher. I think this is worth more than people realize (I've watched Velez absolutely captivate pitchers to the point that they completely forget about the batter, and can't throw strikes). Velez is unlikely to get picked off 2b, and depending on if you feel daring might even be worth stealing 3b to setup the sacrafice. (Have to look at Byrdak's move and Ausmus' arm stats). Fundamentally, Velez gives you way more options out there.
2.) Eugenio Velez plays 2b! Yes, not amazingly. Some might even say horribly - but frankly if I have the choice of getting that run and taking my chances w/ Velez in the 9th or not getting it and going w/ Durham, I'll take the run.
3.) Well, there really is no three. This is IMO a no-brainer and really baffles me.
Situation C:
Using Vinnie Chulk for the 9th inning.
I'm stealing this straight out of Bill James' playbook. The 3-4-5 hitters are due up in the top of the 9th and it is a tie ballgame. The # 3 hitter is the best hitter in baseball right now and frankly has about a 50% chance of absolutely killing the ball.
Why is that not a situation to use the best pitcher you have availalbe... Brian Wilson. I understand that it was not a save situation, but it is going to be the most crucial and difficult half inning of the game. You have a pretty awesome closer who is even warmed up and ready to go. Bill James agrees with me that this is the time to use your closer, and frankly - I think id take my chances double or nothin letting Wilson pitch that 9th over again. This one is just classic traditional baseball vs. Sabermetrics. I don't tow the line of either camp, but this one has to go to Bill James & crew. Makes perfect sense.
________
I'm not even going to touch the other situations I could bring up here (not walking Berkman in the 9th, leaving Walker in too long, not pinch hitting for Lincecum in the bottom of the 6th, etc) but I think you guys(and girls) get the point. There were some decisons that Bochy made which were somewhat questionable both in retrospect (that's the easy part) as well as in foresight (isn't this what mangers with access to all the stats we do are supposed to have?) . We questioned them at the time on the gameday post, and I am documenting them here.
I think that, with the three situations I listed above decided differently (as I suggest, anyway) the Giants would have had a better chance to win this game. Does this happen ever game? No. Has it happened in more than a few so far this season? Yes. Would we have won all of those games had Bochy made the "right" or at least apparantly sensible decisions? No. Would we have won a few of them? Possibly. Possibly is what giving your team the best chance to win is all about, and that is what in-game managing is all about. So what's the matter with Bochy?
He is, apparantly, a little bit of a bum.
Or at leasts makes some ill-advised decisions.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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26 comments
Comments
While I pretty much agree with everything you’ve written, I have a minor quibble in regards to the lefty matchup point. Bengie has an even smaller sample size than Dan this year (28 AB) but his numbers against lefties for the past three years are .340/.369/.566. I still would’ve liked seeing Ort though.
by Natto on May 15, 2008 8:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Valid point
But I’m not sure how valid the past 3 years are for a player in his decline.
Regardless, Ort is the clear choice.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 15, 2008 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you used Ort’s career totals, so I thought’d it’d just be fair to use Molina’s as well (even though I didn’t really find them).
by Natto on May 15, 2008 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I think both for a player in his decline as well as a player who is hopefully improving
That career totals are over-valued. Either way, I think the overall point is fairly clear. If you base it purely on this season, it’s a no-brainer.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 15, 2008 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Molina's Career
.289 /.324 /.481
OBP (which is what you REALLY care about in this situation) is coincidentally equal. Given the recent performance, I say it’s a clear advantage : Ortmeier.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 15, 2008 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially since Ortmeier was going to have to come into the game anyway to play left. Is the difference between Molina and Ort (even assuming it goes in Molina’s favor) enough to justify burning one of your few bench players?
by Evan on May 15, 2008 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bochy is pretty poor at game management.
Spot on, I say. Good post.
A little about Walker. I was driving in the car listening to the game and it was obvious to me that Walker didn’t have anything. You have a lefty warming up in the pen and a lefty (even if it was just Erstad) at bat and a righty who was just plain not getting it done. But once again, he leaves the pitcher in too long and comes out after all of the catastrophic damage.
Only 931 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on May 15, 2008 9:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I have a lot of faith in Walker (less now)
So I am not going to pretend I was chomping at the bit to get him out of there. However, he did demonstrate the signs of being in trouble.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 15, 2008 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
sometimes a guy just doesn’t have it. That seems to be the case with Walker yesterday. Its up to the manager to have a quick hook in that situation.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on May 16, 2008 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A. Not really explicable why Bmoney would pinch hit for any nonpitcher. Or why you would pinch hit for your 2nd best hitter. I think you have to ignore all the splits, except for maybe Molina, last 3 years. Don’t have minor platoon splits for Ort or Lewis. If you really feel Lewis can’t hit lefties, I agree that Ortmeier at least doesn’t burn 2 bench players
B. Meh, Durham isn’t that slow and why burn ANOTHER player
C. Yeah, I hate “CCW” closer conventional wisdom
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on May 15, 2008 9:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If you would have seen Durham trying to stretch his single into a double you would think otherwise about his speed.
Remember, he is coming off an injury and is visibly not 100%
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 15, 2008 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also possible
Herbie has played himself out of such situations by being picked off, taking one too many bases, throwing away games, etc.
Now, if that’s the case, and Bighead doesn’t want him on the field in late innings, IMO he needs to be shipped to Fresno immediately.
Or you should be manager. Either way works.
by natteringnabob on May 16, 2008 4:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Herbie"
Has demonstrated a penchant for getting picked off 1b w/ a lefthander on the mound when trying to steal second. He doesn’t so much get picked off in the traditional sense as get caught stealing.
I am perfectly confident in him not getting picked off second.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 16, 2008 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you not see his attempted stolen base? There is a chance that he knew it was ball four and slowed down, but with the catcher, SS, announcers and fans not knowing, I doubt it.
by paboperfecto on May 16, 2008 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
I agree with two main points you raise: one is the minor mystery that is the riddle of gauging exactly what the manager’s overall impact is on wins/losses; and the other is the mystery of Bochy’s choices today. I was in my Mayoral office in VB 311 today, sweating like there was an FBI corruption probe into mayors, and shaking my head.
I like your mention of not pinching for Timmy in the 6th—it was clear that something was wrong with Timmy, and I would have relieved him at that time. I’m not just saying that—there were other 311ers who heard me.
DFA all Giants over 34 years old.
by Mayor of 311 on May 15, 2008 10:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree a lot re: Wilson
Hello Bruce Bochy. My name is groug (not my real name). You might notice that when you are playing a game in your home ballpark that is tied after 8 innings, it is not possible for your closer to pitch in a save situation.
You might need a moment to ponder this. Perhaps you are thinking “No, that’s not right.” Well, Bruce Bochy, I assure you that it is right. Because, you see, if at some point you gain a lead, the game is over. Do you see how that works?
I certainly hope that you have head enough to think this through and realize that I am correct.
Thank you.
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on May 15, 2008 11:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Also
If a lineup’s best hitters are coming up in the 7th or 8th inning with multiple men on base, you might consider using the guy then. I realize this is heresy, but just consider the possibilities.
Also: Lance Berkman cannot hit curve balls that bounce 10 feet from the plate. I would respectfully suggest pitchers throw him four of those unless he’s at the plate with no one on and the Ginats ahead by 3 or more.
by natteringnabob on May 16, 2008 4:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I told my good friend Bruce what you wanted to say to him and he responed: “Well….I think you might be wrong there. I have seen many games where the home team has gotten a save. Please ponder that before making these baseless accusations supposedly grounded in “facts”. Thank you.”
by paboperfecto on May 16, 2008 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bochy’s used Wilson a few times in 9th inning non-save situations. Why he didn’t here I don’t know, but it would appear he IS familiar with the strategy.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on May 16, 2008 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Making it all the more baffling that he didn't use him then.
He warmed him up, so it is not as if he wanted to give him rest or anything along those lines.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on May 16, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me thinks you're Giantsrainman v2.0...
Always finding something/someone to hate. Posting volume incredibly high…especially when it comes to diaries/fanposts? Do you have a not-so-secret love for ARod, the beztezt eva?!?
Is that you rainman??
Come out, come out, wherever you are!
Adoptive papa to Omar...so basically I'm screwed.
by PacBellBoozer on May 16, 2008 12:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bochy has never impressed me with either his lineups or his in game management.
His in game decisions in particular this year have regularly dipped into the realm that any baseball fans who are not still recovering the pure senility of Felipe Alou would consider strictly mystifying.
In general, I like the way that he appears (note, unsubstantiable) to handle the personalities and the morale, and I’ve been fairly satisfied with his use of the youth this season, but there are only two things about a manager that have a DIRECT impact on the outcome of a baseball game, however significant or insignificant that impact may be (remember, the line-ups and the in game management), and he’s pretty frustratingly bad at both.
As the affect a guy can have goes, I’m of the mind that a manager is incapable of having an appreciable direct, positive impact on the outcome of a game because his job description is essentially “don’t sabatoge the game,” but that he can have an appreciable direct negative impact on the outcome of the game because he is capable of sabatoging situations.
Which is to say that a manager is capable of directly taking situations out of the hands of the players with his management, but he is incapable of doing much to directly put the situations into the hands of the players…
To make this an analogy: A baseball manager is like a person who is trying to remove a moderately adhesive strip or a sticker from a piece of stock paper. If you don’t panic and let the sticker tell you where it will come up the easiest, you can get out of it without doing much damage to the paper. If you rush things or make nonsense pulling decisions, though, the paper is likely completely fucked. And to prove that this is an apt analogy, you literally do the least damage to the paper by leaving it alone as much as possible.
Something along those lines. It’s just an opinion, based on opiniony things.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on May 16, 2008 2:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
See also using every reliever in the bullpen in every game, or even every other game. Bochy has been better at this (lately) than Felipe, at least, but that’s one of the main aspects of “overmanaging” I’ve seen.
by natteringnabob on May 16, 2008 4:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Bochy was doing a much better job earlier, but he seems to be slipping lately. Since the return of Omar he has slowly started to stick his veterans back in there more and more. Not only is there Omar, but there’s more Durham, and there’s more Aurilia. I don’t mind this team losing, but there’s no progress and nothing you can take from a loss when it’s the old guys who are losing the games for you. As for his in game strategy he has never been good at this. I was absolutely shocked that he didn’t bring in his best reliever to face the heart of the order in the ninth. I figured Wilson gets out the heart of the order and you can probably hold the Astros for another two or three innings, giving you a chance to win the game against someone other than THEIR closer. As for Walker vs. Erstad, I could understand if Bochy didn’t want Hinshaw to make his major league debut in a clutch situation, so why not bring in Brian Wilson for a four out save?? It’s not like that inning happened quickly, that top of the eighth was going on forever. It was just a brutal job by Bochy yesterday. He is as much to blame as Tyler Walker is for what happened. Tyler Walker has now been responsible for our two worst losses of the season, the 5-2 Cain game, and this one. When Valdez returns, he needs to take over the eighth inning role. Until then, he needs to go lefty-righty to get him through the eighth.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on May 16, 2008 5:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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