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Danger- Brain at Work

I suppose one can only hope that if Magowan does step down and sell out that this kind of thing may be nipped in the bud but...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/05/14/SP5710M9D5.DTL

How long ago was it a few of us wondered whether Brain would be over-encouraged by the performance of the team?  Coupled with the several mentions of Joe Crede that have appeared (even Jon Miller, shame on him), I'm getting nervous.

For those to lazy to click on the link, the Brainiest quotes are:

"When you consider some of our challenges in spring training and some of the question marks, we've got to be considered one of the most improved teams in baseball."

"I feel good about some of our choices. We've now got a solution at first base. We've got a solution at third."

"....With that in mind, Sabean said he does not contemplate moving his most marketable experienced players before the trade deadline, as many rebuilding teams do."  [In fairness he is referring to Winn and Molina, but it seems the league has already communicated to him that those are the only tradeable pieces that are not pitchers who only shave once per week]

If only we could all drink the same kool-aid from Brian Cancer's rose-colored shot glasses.

I too am glad Omar is back and seems to be playing well, and that seems to have invigorated things (and broken up the losing streak), but I'm more than a little concerned that between the lines of this article lay a Sanchez for Crede or a Lincecum for Rios. 

 

 

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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I think we can rule out a Lincecum for anyone trade at this point...

A) not even Sabes is that dumb
B) with the way he’s pitched and is rapidly becoming the “face of the franchise” ownership thought Zito would be, Sabean’s superiors wouldn’t let him trade Lincecum
C) LIncecum for Rios may have been worthy of consideration by some over the winter. Now though, unless the Brewers wanted to ditch Ryan Braun or some other team some equally dominant youngster, I don’t think anyone would trade Timmy. Before the thinking was if he stays healthy he could develop into a Cy Young contender. But since the season has started he’s pitched well enough to be in contention right now. Make no mistake about it, the price tag on Lincecum has gone up to the point where he’s virtually untradeable.

Other than that… I sure hope Brian isn’t dumb enough to try trading prospects for vets at this point. Now if he wants to trade prospects for other youngsters closer to the bigs/guys who are blocked? I guess I could see that, so long as we were getting guys who had a chance to stick.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on May 15, 2008 12:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd do Timmy for Hanley straight up.

I’d hate myself but I would in a second.

Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.

by Andy from DC on May 15, 2008 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope you don’t mean to say that you think the Lincecum for Rios trade would be revisited, only something along those lines? Because even Sabean’s not stupid enough to trade Lincecum now. He’s clearly the Giants’ best player.

This Giants team will never go into a protracted losing streak (because of Cain and Lincecum), but as Schulman pointed out they’re on a pace to lose 93 games, and at some point they’re going to lose in bunches and Sabean will stop sniffing the glue and wake up to reality. I really can’t see him holding on to Winn, provided a) Winn can keep his trade value at a moderate level, b) he’s offered a decent prospect in return for him, and c) Winn is willing to waive his NTC.

At least I hope that’s the case…

Noonan. Nooooonan!

by Giant Fan in Singapore on May 15, 2008 12:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

No way

It’s Lincecum for Crede, but only if we throw in [list of every prospect].

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on May 15, 2008 2:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

remember WInn now only has a limited no trade clause.

Castillo hits doubles.

by kennv on May 15, 2008 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

sabean has lost it

if he means even an iota of what he stated in this piece, he has shown that he should no longer be a gm

he is behaving like a fan who thinks this team is one or two bats away from greatness

if he trades off any of our youth for some one year rental, i swear to god, i am gonna find him….put him on home plate and smack him right into the cove

by bacci40 on May 15, 2008 1:37 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

+10000

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 15, 2008 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sabean's quotes

If that is indeed what he said, he’s still not in touch with reality. If he has a solution for 3B, he should put that player on the roster and let Bochy use him. Same for 1B.

Sometimes, you just have to laugh to keep from crying.

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on May 15, 2008 6:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Or

He’s in full pre-draft mode and sewing a bunch of BS through the media – artificially trying to drive up the price for Winn and Molina before the trade deadline, lowering the perceived need for a 3B, etc.

Delaying the disappointment: I adopt Hector Sanchez because he's only 17.

by tedfordfan on May 15, 2008 6:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

Because if it’s one thing Bri-Bri has taught us over the last 4 years, it’s that he’s a master tactician!

Maybe we can trade Billy Sadler for Shea Hillenbrand.

by xanthan on May 15, 2008 6:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Say what you want about Sabean, but I will concede that he doesn’t show his hand with the media.

I read the article this morning on BART and thought he was just puffing some PR to drive up attendence. (Hey, these guys aren’t so bad!) I agree with tedfordfan that he may be trying to throw off the scent of other GMs looking to low-ball him for a Winn, Molina or Vizquel.

2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!

by Goofus on May 15, 2008 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You sir

must have been reading in one of those nice redecorated cars, redolent with toluene. It’s my favorite part of the day!

by natteringnabob on May 15, 2008 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you guys are giving Sabean way-y-y-y too much credit

You know, there once was a time, many years ago, when I would routinely project Machiavellian brilliance on each of Sabean’s moves and statements. No more. The truth is that nothing Sabean has done over the past 5+ years shows anything but a lazy-headed, burnt-out intellect, doing the bare minimum to put a 25-man roster in place:

- A farm system that has been an out-and-out embarrassment during almost his entire tenure as GM
- Ridiculously foolish free agent signings of players who were in their prime five years ago
- His slavish devotion to aged players
- His refusal to consider meaningful statistics in his evaluation of players

The Sabean of 1996-2002, who used to swing daring, imaginative deals, and who would frequently pluck productive players off the scrap heap is long gone. There’s no way he is thinking about trading Winn, Molina or Vizquel now. No way. Sabean is in love with guys like that. They are known quantities—”proven major leaguers”. Players like this are a constant source of comfort to Sabean during the long, dark nights of the soul.

And the thing Sabean will never, ever do, is trade an aging veteran for a legitimate, high-upside, minor league prospect. Honestly, I can’t think of even one instance of his having done that during his entire tenure as GM.

That's all I can stands, I can't stands no more!

by tobias on May 15, 2008 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

All true

We’re not disputing what you’re saying. But one of the other things Sabean has been very consistent with (as the esteemed Goofus pointed out) is floating tons of BS through the media. Basically I don’t believe anything he says before, during or after any of the trades, signings or evaluations he makes.

That’s not to say he’s not an idiot. I’m just refusing to get upset at what he says through the press.

Delaying the disappointment: I adopt Hector Sanchez because he's only 17.

by tedfordfan on May 15, 2008 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

I assume you’re talking about position players & trading, because several pitching deals were made that fetched a “legitimate, high-upside, minor league prospect” – Merkin Valdez (Russ Ortiz) and the flamethrower that flamed out from the Phillies (F-Rod) come to mind.

Delaying the disappointment: I adopt Hector Sanchez because he's only 17.

by tedfordfan on May 15, 2008 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with Goofus...and you

Sabean does avoid transparency when speaking to media types. But I wouldn’t say that everything he says is a lie. I think there are times that Sabean gives us glimpses of what goes on in that head of his. I think the “solution at third base” comment was one of those times.

Oh, and thanks for assuming that I meant just position players, but I actually didn’t. I totally forgot about Merkin. The exception that proves the rule!!

That's all I can stands, I can't stands no more!

by tobias on May 15, 2008 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sabean loves guys like that because he's never produced a proven major leaguer

They’re a mystery to him

Mike Loree: Gotta take someone with a 50th round pick.

by BrianBokake on May 15, 2008 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Low-ball" him or Winn?

Winn’s OPS+ this year is 81. It was 105 last year. It was 84 in 2006. He’s 34. Besides the $8M this year, there’s an additional $8.5M left on his contract for next year. He has not gotten unlucky with BABIP. His BABIP is 322. He plays corner OF, albeit well.

What do you believe is a fair trade for Winn?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on May 15, 2008 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly? I would have to have an atrocious OF to even take his salary. Might be able to ‘Alfonzo-Finley’ him for someone elses problem.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on May 15, 2008 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody seems to believe this, but Winn is an above-average outfielder. He’s definitely going to have some trade value if he stays anywhere near his career numbers.

by Evan on May 15, 2008 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jim Edmunds

Is apparently being signed by the Cubs. Now that’s desperate. I sure hope Brian didn’t turn them down on Winn.

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on May 15, 2008 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Winn over his career has a 265 EQA

Corner OFs are around 270. His D is good. So, below average offense, above average D. I’m not seeing the above averageness, especially since he’s 34.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on May 16, 2008 1:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also,

why do you assume that other GMs will believe whatever Sabean tells the media?

Why are you assuming that Sabean is the only GM who can conceive of a GM lying to the media?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on May 15, 2008 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's not

He’s just saying that Sabean has consistently lied and floated BS to the press, so he’s not particularly worked up about him saying to the SF Chron that we have a solution at 3B when everyone on the planet with brain activity knows that’s false.

Delaying the disappointment: I adopt Hector Sanchez because he's only 17.

by tedfordfan on May 15, 2008 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So,

Sabean is not tying to “throw off the scent” of other GMs?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on May 15, 2008 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Riddles in the Dark

That Pierzynski deal even fooled me! Tricksy Brain!

by natteringnabob on May 15, 2008 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brian is so sneaky, he’s even fooled himself!

by xanthan on May 15, 2008 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't hate the playa

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on May 15, 2008 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sabes has lost it.

I wrote about this article this morning.

/shameless plug

http://www.baycityball.com/2008/05/15/crawling-inside-the-headspace-that-is-brian/

/shameless plug

I just don’t-understand-him sometimes.

by xanthan on May 15, 2008 6:52 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice blog!

Really enjoyed what I read… I’ll start visiting more often. I always have a need for more Giants opinioniness and statistical stuff.

Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?

by shikantaza on May 15, 2008 7:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i’ve missed your site the last month. the air force = a bunch of idiots who block out websites about baseball and education and anything else i might want to read about. i’m going to catch up on so much baseball reading when i get back to the states!

Bengie Molina: stretching doubles into singles since 1998.

by jasomack on May 15, 2008 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is what I get

Your IP address: 155.104.147.17
Your username: mooreia
Category: Adult Content;Adult Material

BLOCKED!

Dammit, Xanthan.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 15, 2008 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

where

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 15, 2008 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

eeeeeew

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 15, 2008 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But he's about to be a doctor...

..and it’s in the interest of medical science.

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on May 15, 2008 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m there!

SAVE_US.RAY
Nattowear: now featuring new crap!

by Natto on May 15, 2008 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great blog; excellent insights

That's all I can stands, I can't stands no more!

by tobias on May 15, 2008 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks everybody for the nice words!

by xanthan on May 15, 2008 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re the Giants D that you talk about,

RZR does not measure percentage of balls in play converted into outs. It measures balls in zone that are converted into outs.Balls out of zone are handles separately. DER, the inverse of BABIP, is percentage of balls in play converted into outs.

Also, I wonder what the Giant’s FIP is, with Zito removed. His 18 Ks and 18 walks in 39.7 IP, probably badly skew the overall team FIP.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on May 15, 2008 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good call, thanks for the typo point out. I got tripped up in my wording for the team RZR part.

I’ve also wondered what team stats would look like with Zito removed, too, but I wonder how fair that is considering the Giants are definitely planing on keeping him in the rotation on the team. So while it might be an interesting “what if” scenario, it might not be very practical in real world terms.

by xanthan on May 15, 2008 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see your point

One thing I wonder is whether any other team has one player so negatively skewing the DIPs numbers. Eyeballing some of the other teams, the most similar I can find to the Giants and Zito, are the Braves, where Glavine is doing his usual DIPs defying act, and the DBacks and Edgar Gonzalez.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on May 15, 2008 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

if those quotes are to be taken at face value,

that is a sad sad state of affairs.
fresh batch of frownies indeed.

by WTF on May 15, 2008 8:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Isn’t our projected record 69-93? How does that indicate contention?

What hurts a lot is when Sabean says “We’ve got a solution at third.” WTF.

Proud adoptive parent of Tim Alderson.

by Anticon23 on May 15, 2008 8:43 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Seriously

What is Sabean supposed to say? “We really hate our third baseman, and we’re desperate. Please call and try to offer your medocire third baseman for your top tier prospects because we have a huge hole to fill. Thanks.”

Come on, now. We are all bright enough to realize that GM’s can’t say what is on their minds, because a) they may make the players upset
b) nobody wants to broadcast a poor negotiating position

by tyrannoman on May 15, 2008 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, you simply just don’t say anything about it at all. If you’re going to say anything, take out the whole bit about “solutions” and just ramble on about the return of Omar and the emergence of Fred Lewis.

Proud adoptive parent of Tim Alderson.

by Anticon23 on May 15, 2008 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you seriously believe that GMs

pay attention to fluff like this in the press?

Since we are all bright enough to realise that GMs can’t say what is on their minds, why do you assume that GMs are not bright enough to realise that Sabean is in a poor negotiation position, regardless of whatever he say.

The Sabean is trying to deceive other GMs via the media view assumes that Sabean is the only GM in MLB who lies to the media, and that other GMs trust whatever the media reports.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on May 15, 2008 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They don't pay attention to this

But they would pay attention if Sabes said “Oh God, we’re horrible! I’m desperate for a real third baseman! I’ll trade anything!”

So we get this kind of quote. And I’m fine with that.

If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?

by groug on May 15, 2008 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's say Sabean makes that quote.

So what? If they call him, he’ll say no, sorry, that’s just media talk. Regardless of what Sabean says, or does not say about Jose Castillo, other teams have scouts, video, stats, defensive metrics. Other teams are fully aware of just what kind of player Jose Castillo is.

Either way, why should a GM pay any attention to what some other GMs says in the press?

I don’t pay attention to quotes like this. I don’t care. I would not care if Sabean had said that the Giants are a WS contending team. But I don’t agree with the spin that somehow Sabean is going to improve his negotiation position, to “throw other GMs off the scent”.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on May 15, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

what should sabean say?

that we are working on putting a young, exciting team on the field…and list off the accomplishments of the kids….and then, you stfu
you dont try to play the media and the fans like a bunch of idiots
and you dont try to play the rest of the gm’s like a bunch of idiots

ever hear beane talk this way? he isnt even doing it this season, and his “rebuilding” team is in first.

by bacci40 on May 15, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

sabean has lost it

this article seems like a joke. a caricature of sabean. i dont even know what that word means, but it sounds like it fits.

sabean is unfit to GM a big league team. if winn is on the roster in ‘09, i dont know what i’m going to do. probably just make angry fan posts and bitch to all my friends.

Bengie Molina: stretching doubles into singles since 1998.

by jasomack on May 15, 2008 8:45 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Talk about your Lunatic Fringe...

That's all I can stands, I can't stands no more!

by tobias on May 15, 2008 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lunatic Fringe

Dip my balls

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on May 15, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

D:

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on May 15, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Solution at third

hear that everybody? my boy’s done good!

{ducks}

Castillo hits doubles.

by kennv on May 15, 2008 8:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Why Can't we have a GM or Coach like Nelson.

How Nelson would describe this team

“This team just isn’t very good”

How Nelson would describe the 3b situation

“We’ve got a major problem at 3b because Castillo just isn’t very good”

That would be so refreshing…

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 15, 2008 9:13 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

No, it would be terrible

It would alert other team’s GMs to his suckitude…

FWIW, I assumed he was referring to Aurilia’s nice defensive work the other day. But maybe that’s wishful thinking on my part.

by natteringnabob on May 15, 2008 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If other GMs have scouts that have functioning eyes, they’ve noticed the suckitude at 3B for the Giants this year…and at SS…and 1B…and – oh, nevermind.

Point being, Sabean operates without thinking about us – the fans, whom he thinks are basically morons – and says things for other GMs, teams, players, prospects, etc.

Delaying the disappointment: I adopt Hector Sanchez because he's only 17.

by tedfordfan on May 15, 2008 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

why do the need eyes to notice 3rd?

I would have thought the pull of drained joy and happiness would be noticeable by just walking down the street outside.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 15, 2008 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Add more beer! Sometimes that help the goggles.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 15, 2008 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I had the same thought about Nelson.

That's all I can stands, I can't stands no more!

by tobias on May 15, 2008 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m fine with Sabean saying nice things about his players in the media - hey, I’d like my boss to say nice things about me - but for him to call this team “one of the most improved” is more than a bit disingenuous. They’re only “improved” if your expectations were incredibly low, like if you thought they’d win 60 games this year instead of 70. Lewis is a nice surprise partially because Bochy buried him and lots of the rookies on the bench last year, but the Roberts injury forced his hand this season. Sabean shouldn’t give himself credit for improving the team if he was largely responsible for assembling such a mismatched collection of players the previous few seasons.

Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.

by Kitspool on May 15, 2008 9:38 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Um

based on how they played in Spring Training, I think Sabes is right – if we’d played like that we probably would have only won 50-60 games.

Fortunately for us, Roberts took one for the team when his knee exploded, dramatically upgrading one position in our lineup.

Delaying the disappointment: I adopt Hector Sanchez because he's only 17.

by tedfordfan on May 15, 2008 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So the Giants are about on pace to when 66 games right now , correct?

I think thats about were most of us put their chances. Arround 70 games give or take 4.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 15, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice post. I hope he is just being encouraging to sell tickets and warm up the more causal fans to check out a team with not obvious H.O.F.er’s.

I mean even Sabean can’t be delusional enough to think most of these line ups were what he had in mind even as far ago a March 1st. That’s enough beating that dead horse.

I do like the Rios mention. I see people posting Crede’s stats so far but not a peep about Rios. I can imagine if he had that this May’s stats (BA/OBP/SLG 177/215/290 so far) here after trading Tim? It would have made A.J. look like happy fluffy bunny bed story time.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 15, 2008 9:43 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Selling tickets

It’s working wonders… I paid $2.50 plus stubhub extras ($7) for my seat in 331 last night.

by natteringnabob on May 15, 2008 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nonstory. Sabean’s a bad GM. We all know that already. There’s plenty to hang him for without getting freaked out about his clumsy attempts at cheerleading, or spin, or positive thinking, or saving his job, or whatever it is.

by Evan on May 15, 2008 11:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Talk to him AFTER the draft

GM Brian Sabean is so pre-occupied with the draft,as well he should be. Talk with him again towards the end of June.

by wilriv21 on May 15, 2008 12:06 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

hey brian...what do you think now?

giants just lost 3 out of 4 games, when they shoulda won 3 out of 4

contenders dont do that

by bacci40 on May 15, 2008 4:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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