Magowan to step down Friday?

from the first time I heard this, my thoughts were that someone has to pay for the Zito mistake (besides us fans).

Hard to say whether he’s being forced out or feels so fucking stupid for the magnitude of that contract that he just wants to go away.

by WTF on May 14, 2008 8:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Someone should pay

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on May 14, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is it the Zito signing or the lax clubhouse environment

that allowed for the presence of “shady” people that Stan Conte talked about?

by wilriv21 on May 14, 2008 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think we can’t judge whether this is a good or bad move until we find out who the new head honcho will be, and what that honcho will do.

In the meantime, thanks for being instrumental in giving us the good Barry and a pretty ballpark, Pete. Enjoy your retirement. Sincerely, BVCE.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 14, 2008 8:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

From what I heard, the guy is head of the BAR association. And another major shareholder will be a major Microsoft attorney. I could be mistaken, it might be the same guy.

Enjoy the millions Peter Mac, and lay off the tanning please.

Your buddy,
Mike

P.S. Thanks for the huge Phone Booth & bringing in the most exciting left fielder ever… Freddie Lewis

Adopted father of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on May 14, 2008 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is that you with Pete there? I like his orange tie. Matches his face.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 14, 2008 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He’s staying true to the Giants colors.

Adopted father of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on May 14, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

it says he "signed-off" on the Zito deal

what does that mean – every owner “signs off” .....seems to be placing the idea of signing
Zito on Sabean, which im not sure is accurate

by slojoe on May 14, 2008 8:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I noticed that too. Matier & Ross aren’t sports guys, but really political reporters. If I’m not mistaken, in that context “signing off” on something means approving, endorsing, and backing—something more active than just saying “sure, whatever you want, Brian.”

I suspect that Sabean won’t be renewed by whoever takes over, by the way. I also suspect that Bochy won’t be, either. A new owner will often want to have his own people in place. (Dave Righetti will be there until the UFOs take him away, however.)

No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball

by Skaldheim on May 14, 2008 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"signing off"

A GM has a duty to inform the ownership of whether a potential signing/offer is a good deal or not, but there’s no way Sabean has the final say on contract signings like Zito’s. He negotiates, sure, but then he has to go to ownership to get approval for the deal. That Magowan “signed off’ on the Zito trade isn’t surprising. But I’m not about to place the majority of the blame on him for the signing. That belongs to the man/men who negotiated it and sought approval from ownership for it. That Magowan fell for it, is another story, but without more details pertaining to that signing, Sabean is still the scapegoat.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on May 14, 2008 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think in general you are right

But the Zito contract had all the indications of a top down decision to bring in an “impact player”

It also appeared that he was the only “impact player” left and was selected by default (And then overpaid to ensure getting him).

I could pin this on ownership all the way.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The big question then:

Did Magowan’s role as MGP mean he was the “single” ownership voice in all baseball/payroll consultations? Or did any of the other investors pipe up and say, “You know, Peter, maybe it’s not a good idea to outbid other teams by $30 million and offer a 7-year contract to a pitcher with declining peripherals?”

Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.

by Kitspool on May 14, 2008 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think we are we are all acting as if the Zito contract was the only white elephant in the room.

It is a white elephant but only a baby one. Baseball has had plenty of big contracts that went bust without an owner having to resign. The bigger Elephant is wheather this is all about plausible deniability for certain ownership people in the MLB at large regarding P.E.D.’s. And make no mistake the is a matriarchic sized White Elephant. Believe me I am as tired of the topic as any other Giants fan and I rely don’t enjoy the topic but it truly has to be considered.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 14, 2008 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

True

The PEDs issue is a big one involving Magowan. Maybe it’s the driving force behind his stepping down. I’m just wondering why now, in the middle of May. If MLB wanted him to take the fall for this, why choose this moment. Unless there’s some other big news coming down the pike…

Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.

by Kitspool on May 14, 2008 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If, big IF, that is the reason imagine the crap storm a managing general partner could unleash on the Commish office if backed into too tight of a corner.

Off the top of my pointy little head release financial data that they go to great lengths to keep suppressed.
Or produce documents suggesting that Commish office was alerted but did nothing. Then a GMP could start to get creative.

Or you let him leave in a "quiet" time then nudge and wink and say that P.E.D era was really bad but we are finally through it now.
If we think the clemans mess is fugly this would surely top it.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 14, 2008 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Someone

In the Giants FO will take a fall for PED’s. God forbid that Selig take any responsibility. Yesterday the Federal Prosecutors released a “new” indictment against Bonds. It included 14 felony counts of perjury, and 1 felony count of obstruction. It looks like BLB and the Giants will continue to responsible for all of the PED use in the MLB.

It really is shameless that this unbelievably transparent persecution of one surly, unlikeable, individual continues to play out. Many other big name players have been named, lied to authorities, with documentation to back it up ( I’m looking at you Clemens ), and yet BLB gets to be the “fall guy” because his public persona has been like that of a cranky warthog. Very ,very, wrong.

My adopted son Matt Downs. Bill Mueller without the two-flap helmet .

by nvsfg on May 14, 2008 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with the PED angle..

Bond Indictment expanded

The Barry Bonds Indictment was expanded to 15 counts today too, which is kinda funny timing.

"Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist."
-Crash Davis

"Cain, Lincecum, and Sanchez coverted me to Anti-Crashist Fascism in 08."
-Toofruss

by toofruss on May 14, 2008 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

I can’t imagine “the new face of the franchise” being something a GM would say of a signing. It wreaks of marketing and front office lingo.

by sfgfan on May 14, 2008 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

exactly.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't remember that...

I feel like I’d only ever seen reporters refer to Zito as the new face of the franchise. Did Magowan or anyone else actually say that too?

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on May 14, 2008 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's been said, yes.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How is the GM not front office?

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on May 14, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think that’s in reference to the non-baseball ops people.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on May 14, 2008 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We may never know

Just how involved a partner Magowan has been, and how tight the leash on Sabean has been.

Part of me thinks that this is Peter taking the rap for where the Giants have ended up like a man, and acknowledging (privately) that it’s not Sabeans fault. If he indeed mandated the Zito trade, the failure to go young while Bonds was still on the roster, and who knows what else – then it makes a lot of sense.

Part of me also thinks that he just wants to move on and this is as good a time as any.

While the Giants have been a great team for most of his tenure, that has primarily been because of 3-4 players total. It is hard to say that either Magowan or Sabean showed the ability to build a winning franchise for the long term as much as they just bought / traded for a few superstar players and got just a little bit lucky.

My totally unfounded gut feeling is that Sabean has had his hands tied in quite a few places, and may finally be getting the freedom to do HIS thing. A lot of the decisions that appear to have been made by him in the last 10 years don’t make a lot of sense, and don’t jive w/ his track record. As does the decision to extend his contract after what would appear to be an abismal failure to maintain the quality of the team (possibly because ownership as a whole new that he wanted to, but Magowan was focused on Bonds and getting every $ out of him that he could)

I hope this is the case. We shall see.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 8:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think people place too much emphasis on strategy

That strategy to surround Bonds with a veteran team capable of winning was necessarily a bad one and isn’t really responsible for the losing team tha we’ve endured the last three years. It was the execution of that plan that was often at fault—it was overpaying for declining performances, frequently giving out the last contracts that players would ever have in the majors (Alfonzo, Grissom, Morris, etc., how many of our big free agent signing hit the end of their career during a contract we signed them too), it was the bad personnel decisions effected within that strategy that led us to where we are today.

Most any strategy can lead to success or failure, just like any move pitch can lead to brilliance or shit. Execution of the plan is all that really matters. The devil’s in the details (strangely, “god is in the details”, too. apparently there’s quite the theological war being battled down in there).

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on May 14, 2008 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Certainly -

My point is that ownership may have financially and idealogically tied Sabeans hands.

“We want you to find players that will make the team win now, not rebuild” combined with “and you only get x money”

That prevents the money from being invested in younger, unproven players while at the same time preventing Sabean from making real quality aquisitions because of the limit on expenditure.

While the GM makes the ultimate player decisions, it is certainly up to the ownership to decide whether or not to make a push now, or to rebuild for the future. The overall direction of the franchise.

I don’t think we can blame Sabean for that.

Again, I have no proof.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

As Sabean himself said many times over the years

The Giants have been in the top tier of MLB payrolls throughout the last decade, frequently in the top 5-8 teams. When you’ve spent $90-95 million on a team that loses 90+ games, the payroll limit wasn’t the problem. The allocation of that payroll was.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on May 14, 2008 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, I think we both agree that the allocation was the problem.

I just see a credible scenario where Ownership muddled with Sabeans job, partially creating the scenario we are now in.

Keeping BLB playing and surrounded by a “supporting” cast did one thing very well – sell tickets, generate revenue. Don’t forget that a professional sports team’s #1 goal is making money. Winning is only a goal inasmuch as it helps you make money.

Playing the BLB veterans game for the last 3 years made a lot of money. Not so much winning. Ownership found a way to make money without winning – and thats the direction the team took.

Now they are going to have to win again to make money, and as a result they may be looking in a new direction.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I call Shenanigans

Consider this:

Walt Jocketty succeeded with the exact same win-now philosophy that Sabean’s had. The difference? Jocketty made some smart acquisitions, such as an undervalued centerfielder and an unhappy third baseman, and a fairly savvy trade for one power-hitting first baseman. And he struck gold with one rook. He spent the Cardinal’s money wisely. Then look at everyone’s favorite lightning rod across the Bay, who’s been known to make impact acquisitions of players like Frank Thomas in a buy-low kind of way. These are the types of deals Sabean stopped making. His idea was to build a team with veteran players who could give you solid, if unspectacular, production, and who knew how to play the game over the course of 162 games.

Trying to blame Magowan or the owners for signing Matt Morris, Rich Aurilia, Marquis Grissom, etc seems pretty unfair. It’s ALWAYS been Sabean’s philosophy to acquire hitters and draft pitchers, at least since he’s been with the Giants.

And the indictment that Sabean didn’t have a high enough payroll to compete is such a bad argument when teams like the Twins, Marlins, and A’s regularly compete with payrolls in the bottom third of the league. To me, Sabean had more than enough money available to sign players. It’s all about results, not excuses. And one thing I’ve always respected about Sabean is that he never tries to pass the buck to someone else, he takes responsibility for the teams he’s built.

Really, what the failure of this team actually boils down to is the inability the Giants have had – since Will Clark and Matt Williams – to draft and develop impact players, pitchers notwithstanding. Show me who’s to blame for that, and I’ll show you where the recent failures of the Giants really lies.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on May 14, 2008 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shenanigans.

The BLB veterans game is really just “1 great player and some other guys”. Is the argument that the Giants would be better if they didn’t have the best player ever? The BLB $$ were part of the fraction that was on the good side of the $90 budget. Sabean just didn’t spend the rest of the money wisely.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on May 14, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No argument there

I certainly never said anything about Bonds. My point is that Sabean didn’t spend most of that money wisely, instead filling the roster with declining players, many to most of whom were at the end of their careers. He didn’t build the team wisely, and even he’d probably admit that. This isn’t about Bonds at all, it’s about the “some other guys.” The some other guys are where you need to spend wisely, and look to have a farm system where you can occasionally bring up younger, more cost effective players. I firmly believe the biggest shortcoming with this team is that there’s not been any position-player development since Clark and Williams. Whoever is responsible for that – and it may be a long list of responsibility – is who the failures of this team should be pinned on.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on May 14, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A flaw in your arguement

is saying “It’s ALWAYS been Sabean’s philosophy to acquire hitters and draft pitchers…” and then saying Sabean is responsible for signing Zito. You can’t have it both ways.

by marklar on May 14, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well Put.

I’m not saying Sabean is in the clear here. I’m merely saying that it is highly likely that ownership has had a higher than normal impact on what he has been allowed to do.

Imagine this conversation, circa 2005-06:

Sabean : Gentlemen, this team is reaching the end of it’s rope. We’ve got Bonds at the end of his career and a bunch of old guys. We missed our shot these last few years, and now we are done. I say we tear down and rebuild. That means, among other things, let’s trade Bonds for prospects.

Ownership : Um, are you fucking insane? Barry Bonds is a garunteed Cash Cow. No matter if this team wins or loses, as long as BLB is on this team and chasing the all time HR record we will sell tickets. You expect us to give up THAT and cross our fingers that we can develop a winning team ? Forgetaboutit. Let’s see who is avaliable on the FA market right now and keep this thing going. As long as we can field a team that is so-so, as long as we’ve got Bonds, we are set.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait wait wait...

You’re saying it’s literally impossible to ever sign a pitcher to a contract because your organizational philosophy is to draft pitchers? Methinks you CAN have it both ways.

I do think there’s a good likelihood that the Zito contract was a mangement decision. That was probably from above the head of Sabean. I won’t say it DEFINITELY was, because that would be foolish.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on May 14, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Truthfully

it would be foolish for any of us to assume we knew anything. It is all speculation at this point and we all have our reasons. Unless Sabean of Magowan decides to write a book – no one will probably ever know.

I just my underlying point is that there is a lot of complications that have little to do with baseball in a half a billion dollar business. To assume that a GM is immue to these is, IMO, naive.

I end up doing stuff at work that I would normally deem unecessary often because it was declared from on high. And it it in retrospect turns out to have been a waste of resources, guess who get’s to take the blame?

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The intern?

If not, you’re doing it wrong! =)

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on May 14, 2008 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Workin on that.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not saying that.

I’m saying you can’t say someone “ALWAYS” (in capital letters no less) does something and then say he does something else. You can have it both ways as long as you don’t say “ALWAYS”. I am in basic agreement with the sentiment. and I’m probably guilty of a little nitpicking. But I have suffered similarly from some of my own comments. I am just playing the game.

by marklar on May 14, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You'd have a point...

But I said that’s what his philosophy has always been, not what he’s exclusively done. Part of his overriding philosophy is to draft pitchers and use some of them to trade for hitters. It doesn’t mean he does that exclusively, but that he believes it’s easier to draft and develop pitchers than it is hitters.

Also, I hadn’t mentioned Zito in the post you were referencing, so I’m not sure where that came from in the first place…

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on May 14, 2008 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Point taken

But it makes me think it was Magowan’s influence on Sabean that led to the Zito signing since, as you point out, it is counter to how Sabean had been doing things.

Whether you mentioned Zito or not his signing must be taken into account when discussing how the Giants FO operates.

by marklar on May 14, 2008 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or like the Lombardi Packers.

They use to say you knew what they were going to run when the called the signals. But the defense still could not stop them. Its all about the execution.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 14, 2008 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

As a lifelong cheesehead supporter…get it right…the word “Saint” belongs in front of that Lombardi reference. Just as it does when the name Starr or Favre is evoked.

Adoptive papa to Omar...so basically I'm screwed.

by PacBellBoozer on May 15, 2008 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Since the Zito contract is uniformly recognized as terrible – doesn’t it follow that if P-Mac was responsible for it (in a greater part that just signing the dotted line) and is stepping down, should he let us know in his “resignation” speech… just to take the fall for Sabean?

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on May 14, 2008 9:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe, but I doubt that will matter. The new managing partner dude, whoever that is, if he’s been watching the team for the last few years, will have plenty of other things to blame Sabean for. Me, I’d like to give the man another year to see how his drafting is working out. You can see something simmering with this year’s team, and I’m kinda curious to see where it goes.

No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball

by Skaldheim on May 14, 2008 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, you and me both.

This years team is probably twice as good and 10x as fun to watch as we all thought it was going to be. Sabean also did not make any moves of consequence over the offseason, which bodes well for the non knee-jerk reaction.

I think there’s a chance he’s got something up his sleeve and is headed in the right direction with this.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zito aside, the starting rotation and the bullpen look like they’re in great shape. (I’ve been meaning to figure out how many fewer runs the Giants would have given up if they’d had a league-average pitcher instead of Zito in the first quarter.)

Give this pitching staff an average offense and average fielding, and I believe you’d have a contender.

No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball

by Skaldheim on May 14, 2008 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Basically have average fielding already.

Everyone likes to focus on a few mistakes – but the team overall is pretty average in the field.

So yeah, I think that Sabeans activity around the trade deadline will tell us what direction he is taking this team in, and if he is capable of moving us forward.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually...

By this measure, anyway… they have THE WORST fielding in the NL!

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/teams/ (scroll to very bottom)

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on May 14, 2008 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, worst fielding in the NL

Doesn’t necessarily mean that their fielding is so atrocious that it is keeping them from ever competing.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you FWF, but...

How patient can we be? At some point, slightly better that average at home, and dismal on the road will get boring. What has been fresh this year some excitement from Lewis and Bowker, and the Bullpen. When that wears off…

I’m willing to sit a few years as long as I see some progress. So for this season, I’d like to see us start getting better away from home. Then next year maybe a 5-10 game over .500 record, so on…

So will Sabes be patient enough to avoid clearing out the pitching shelf for some offensive prospects now, or will he be cool and take the long approach and balance the farm system? Or, heaven forbid, start trying to throw money at F.A. like Crede this winter?

Also, will the new managing partner be interested in cutting payroll? Increasing payroll? How does this years luke-warm attendance come into play?

"Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist."
-Crash Davis

"Cain, Lincecum, and Sanchez coverted me to Anti-Crashist Fascism in 08."
-Toofruss

by toofruss on May 14, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think we can/should be that patient.

If Rowand/Bowker/Lewis are producing close to the way they are now at the end of the season, and our pitching doesn’t suffer any major setbacks – then I think we need to look very seriously and making some big FA aquisition in the offseason to fill holes at SS 3b 2b and possibly 1b (Texeria, bowker back to RF). Lol, that’s the whole infield!

It’s very possible to be competative in ‘09.

If Lewis and Bowker turn out to be flashes in the pan, then I think patience is going to be needed.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bowker and the Pitching

I’m convinced Lewis is the real thing. Rowand is a proven commodity, if he can stay on the field. I like the way Bowker is seeing more pitches during is at bats now. He is laying off the off-speed pitches early in the at bat, and is not striking out as much. Suffice to say I think he has adjusted, now we will shall see.

My greatest fear is that we will over use Cain-Lincecum-Sanchez and ruin them before we are born again. So, from that perspective I can agree with spending money this off-season. However I think Texeria is going to be too expensive. But I have not looked too much into who is FA this year to go further.

"Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist."
-Crash Davis

"Cain, Lincecum, and Sanchez coverted me to Anti-Crashist Fascism in 08."
-Toofruss

by toofruss on May 14, 2008 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you are hoping for over .500 next year...

You may as well leave now. 5-10 games over .500 puts you in the playoff hunt. Giants are not going to be there for a few years. Concentrate on 2011 dude.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on May 14, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not a typical re-build

We already have solid pieces to build upon, so adding a big bat and a stud defensive SS this year and another bat next and this re-build may not be that long.

5 games over is 83-84 wins, 10 is 87-88. In a very weak division (06 NL West) 10 over might get you a berth. But really, who cares about the 06 Padres?

I’m talking about getting back to dominance like we were in 02 and 03, when we were 28~39 games over. There is a line we can draw, which goes from where we are now, to 5-10 games over, to dominance in 2010.

"Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist."
-Crash Davis

"Cain, Lincecum, and Sanchez coverted me to Anti-Crashist Fascism in 08."
-Toofruss

by toofruss on May 14, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I feel that is much too pessamistic

And that the Caincecum boat may have been missed by 2011. Cain and Lincecum are dominant now. There is no Garuntee they will be in 3/4 years.

Like I stated above, if Lewis proves to be for real, this team is really only $$$ away from being in contention next year. Maybe 3-4 years and some luck from being dominant, but this team could be flirting with 1st place next year with the right FA additions.

In all seriousness, it’s not like the rest of the division (excepting AZ) is really making a run for it…

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Next year..

We need a new infield. Sure Kevin Frandsen/Eugenio Velez can take one of those positions but if you want to compete you can’t have Frandsen and Velez in the same infield. Even if you have a good trio of Lewis/Rowand/Winn in the OF, Frandsen and Velez are not going to be a good infield. Even if you bring in a great first baseman (of whom there are only Teixiera (sp) or Dunn (if you convert him)) and bring in a great shortstop (of which I’m not sure there are any) you still will probably have around a league average offense. Maybe that’s enough if the pitching staff gets lucky and really performs but otherwise we’re looking below .500 again.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on May 14, 2008 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

with the “twice as good and 10x” part, but for me, the most disturbing news this year was hearing that the Giants went hard after Andruw Jones. Apparently they offered as much or more than the Dodgers but were rejected by Jones because he didn’t want to play here. If true, it does not smack of smart player evaluation by the FO and leads me to believe that any success this team has is just dumb luck and not smart management.

by marklar on May 14, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I belive Jones

Was given too much credit by a lot of Organizations, Including myself.

His spectacular disentigration is somewhat unpredicented.

Can’t blame the dodgers for it, and I couldn’t blame the Giants had we gotten him.

But god damn I am glad we didn’t.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would have blamed Sabean

Signing AJones was a stupid gamble, and if the Giants were truly pursuing him, then I can only hope the new MGP fires Sabean at his earliest possible convenience. That tells me Brian still doesn’t “get it.” Not that I’m surprised.

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on May 14, 2008 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's pretty easy to say that in retrospect

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

One could also say that he was an extremely talented player who was under valued.

And those are the sort of aquisitions that supposedly make GM’s great. It’s not as if Jones has some clear cut reason for his decline… he just kinda stopped hitting.

And it’s not written in stone yet, either.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

“It’s not as if Jones has some clear cut reason for his decline.”

Well, there is that whole letting-himself-get-really-fat thing.

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on May 14, 2008 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cause or effect?

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 14, 2008 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Boxers or briefs?

"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on May 14, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tony Gwynn.

So STFU about fat getting in the way of your batting eye.

I wanted Jones too (Andruwoo!)...and while I’m glad he’s not powering the Bums into the stratosphere for some perverse reason I’m a little sad that the muse has left him…baseball folk used to rave about his natural skills.
And now he can’t hit …well , a beach ball.

Aaron "Swag" Rowand

by victor frankenstein on May 14, 2008 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't get in the way of your batting eye

But it could just be that physically, Andruw Jones is only capable of performing at a high level within certain parameters. Gwynn also had parameters, his were just… ahem… wider….

This goes both ways. There are plenty of instances of guys who played fat losing weight to “get in better game shape” and losing their effectiveness as a result. Then, putting the weight back on, getting it back.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on May 15, 2008 2:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

BOXERS

DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN, BOXERS!

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on May 15, 2008 2:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would have blamed Sabean too

And that is not in retrospect. I was dreading the thought that the Giants were at all interested in him while he was still available. He was terrible last year too. It isn’t unprecedented at all for a player, once he’s reached his 30’s, to go into decline and lose it all very quickly. Especially one that doesn’t take care of himself and Jones appears to be a player that is not as fit as he should be. He was clearly a gamble; he might have produced, but it wasn’t a gamble I wanted the Giants to take.

In fact, earlier I mistakenly credited Sabean for signings he did not make this off-season, and not signing Jones was one of the more prominent nonsignings that I had in mind..

by marklar on May 14, 2008 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jones AND Schmidt AND Juan Pierre!

There was also a rumor last year that Colletti was considering a Loney for Derrek Lee trade.

Pierre+Jones+Schmidt=Zito?

"Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist."
-Crash Davis

"Cain, Lincecum, and Sanchez coverted me to Anti-Crashist Fascism in 08."
-Toofruss

by toofruss on May 14, 2008 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not really sure how I feel about this. Things are certainly going to get interesting soon.

SAVE_US.RAY
Nattowear: now featuring new crap!

by Natto on May 14, 2008 11:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I hope he sells his shares to Barry Bonds and then gives Selig the finger.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on May 14, 2008 11:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

people hate you, but why do they hate you? because the are jealous!

by satyricrash on May 14, 2008 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope he sells his shares to Shinjo, who transforms our team into some weird disco-slash-baseball team, complete with mandatory LED belt buckles and entrance theatrics for each player.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on May 14, 2008 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?

by groug on May 14, 2008 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Won't the LED belt buckles distract the pitcher?

I think Rueters Mojo Bag wasn’t allowed by the commish office a few years back.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on May 14, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

WHY WON'T THIS HAPPEN

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on May 14, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think I would die without this entertainment spectacle.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 14, 2008 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, Pete.

Well, like BLB, like anyone, really, Peter Magowan has had his highs and lows, in my eye. Some will say that the distinction of saving the Giants from moving to Florida is dubious at best, as MLB was just looking for anyone to step forward to keep a franchise in San Francisco, but I would like to give Peter Magowan a little more credit for that than a lot of these cynics do. For me, the team was gone, Pete headed a group to keep it here, and that should be commended. I like what the Giants did almost immediately to market the history of this team in both in San Francisco and New York, to remind those who needed reminding that the Giants were, and always have been, a class franchise, one of the creme de la creme of all time. Continuity with the past is something that I feel is natural to baseball, and with the signing of Barry Bonds, there was almost this hyper-continuous thread that ran through those years. I don’t know, I guess.

So Pete’s got that goin’ for him.

His faults and miscues are numerous as well, and I acknowledge them, but I think I just overdosed on nostalgia, so I’m going to have to lie down now.

people hate you, but why do they hate you? because the are jealous!

by satyricrash on May 14, 2008 12:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If he is stepping down

I think it’s a combination of all the factors mentioned. Fans hating on him for keeping Bonds too long, then hating on him for letting him go. The Barry Zito signing, the PED scandal, all that stuff. I actually liked what Barbieri had to say about it, that he might just be wondering how much he needs all this grief when he’s in his late 60s.

I don’t know. But it seems a pretty reasonable conclusion.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on May 14, 2008 1:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Something to be said for that line of reasoning.

To me the key will be if he sells his shares. If so at what rate compared to recent ownership sales? That’s the red cape in front of the bull. By all accounts I’ve read he really does enjoy the game. If he is tired of the grief he can just lose a couple of his few titles and not be in the limelight as much and still keep his shares and still get to hang around the game.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 14, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i dont really get the selling his shares part...

like hes completely abandoning the organization…..i dont like it when owners meddle
too much in the personnel decisions but Magowan always seemed to me to be a stand up guy,
a fairly good owner to have representing the team…if he goes, probably get some loser or wierdo running things….

by slojoe on May 14, 2008 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They have a pretty crappy “photo illustration” for the article:

SAVE_US.RAY
Nattowear: now featuring new crap!

by Natto on May 14, 2008 3:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yikes.

people hate you, but why do they hate you? because the are jealous!

by satyricrash on May 14, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOOK!

Up in the sky!
It’s a bird!
It’s a plane!
It’s Michael Caine!

Aaron "Swag" Rowand

by victor frankenstein on May 14, 2008 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

While I’m not super excited or anything (I’ve of the opinion that 90% of the problem is Sabean) I can’t a downside to this – at the very least it will show whether or not the Sabean defenders are right about Magowan’s influence.

Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar

by JakeS on May 14, 2008 6:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Hope beyond hope...

Maybe this is step one into buying out Sabean’s silly contract. If this is ownership taking heads for poor performance (poorformance? I almost typed that) then I hope they’re not as silly as the Yorks. One look at the minor league roster (esp. Fresno) will tell anyone that there’s plenty of blame to go around.

As for the conspiracy theory about Magowan being forced out, that would involve Selig doing something, so I doubt that. It’s possible that the Feds went to him, played him some tapes, and suggested he retire to the Caymans but with all the leaks in this Balco mess you’d think some of that would have come out by now, on some level.

by natteringnabob on May 15, 2008 6:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Bud has never had a problem doing something. Especially when Bud benefits from it. Were Bud has a problem doing something is when it requires some degree of selfless.

A true conspiracy theory would be along the lines the Fed’s now realize they have nothing that will stick. All those manpower hours and hearings aside. But what they do have is leverage of the League by revoking the monopoly protection MLB currently enjoys. Bud chooses a scapegoat and those in Fed can claim they did something and then slink off to put there noses in some else’s bossiness that does not concern them so as to avoid doing their real job. And I don’t see any one forwarding that type of speculation here.

" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.

by daveinexile on May 15, 2008 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If anybody was forcing him out

wouldn’t it make the most sense that it was his partners? The stands are emptying out at a frightening pace, the franchise’s name is mud, and there’s 90% of stock owning partners who might well believe things are trending in the wrong direction.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on May 15, 2008 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs