Jose Cruz, Jr: To hate or not to hate?

by paboperfecto on May 13, 2008 7:35 AM PDT Comment 45 comments

I am in Houston this week for job related training, and so I got to watch last night's game on FSN-Houston. When Jose Cruz came up to bat the first time I booed him along with most of the fans in the stadium. The announcers then proceeded to bash on the fans. They pulled up the stats from the year that he played with us and the conclusion that they had was that the fans were booing him just because he used to play for us and then switched sides, they were completely clueless as to the real reason for the hate. Granted, he hit 20 homeruns for us and won a gold glove. After they mentioned the booing I suddenly remembered some of the great outfield assists that came from right field that year. Then my memories were blocked again and now all I can remember is the dropped ball.

I saw some comments relative to this idea at the end of the second game day thread from yesterday about putting too much blame on his shoulders. Should we hate him? I like overreacting, it makes me feel good. In my mind our gold glove right fielder cost us the championship that year because of his error.

Poll

Should we hate Jose Cruz Jr and why?

Yes, he cost us the championship in 2003.

21 votes

Yes, he cost us advancement to the NLCS.

34 votes

Yes, he's just not that likeable.

15 votes

No, he was a good player for us that year.

27 votes

No, he's simply not memorable enough to like or dislike.

10 votes

107 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Comments

You really can't hate a single player for a play like that

It is frustrating, absolutely.

But the team as a whole got into the position where a single play mattered so much. It’s not entirely THAT players fault.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 13, 2008 7:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Kinda like when a 3rd baseman hits into a flukey number of double plays…is it not entirely HIS fault? You can’t have it both ways, man.

Adoptive papa to Omar...so basically I'm screwed.

by PacBellBoozer on May 13, 2008 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If that was an exception rather than the rule

I would agree with you.

If Aaron Rowand hits into 3 dp’s tonight, I will not say he should be DFA’ed.

Castillo has been GIDP all season long. That game was just the pinnacle of his performance.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 13, 2008 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But the team as a whole got into the position where a single play mattered so much.

I think that position is called “the playoffs.”

They just took a one-run lead in extra innings the frame before.
Are you saying we should fault the team as a whole for not putting up a crooked number? Because if you are, after the Giants scored the go-ahead run, Cruz Jr. stepped up to the plate with the bases loaded and one-out, and hit a weak dribbler to first.

by ExcuseMeSwing on May 13, 2008 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not going to try to discuss the play by play

‘cause frankly, I don’t remember it that clearly.

I’m just saying you cannot base a love/hate for a player on one single play, no matter how wonderful or horrible. Well, maybe it he just said fuckit and didn’t try for the ball or something, but a “in good faith” play…

If Cruz mailed it in all playoffs, then yeah.

Not trying to defend the guy ;)

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 13, 2008 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about Buckner?

I’m just saying you cannot base a love/hate for a player on one single play, no matter how wonderful or horrible.

I think Buckner’s a great example of how a single player is hated for one (unfortunate) play… Thankfully, albeit 20+ years later, he felt some restoration when he threw out the opening day pitch this year.

by bennett on May 13, 2008 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry FWF

I should have kept reading below before I posted something about Buckner!

by bennett on May 13, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You best be apologizin'!

or something

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 13, 2008 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

what are you doing FairweatherFan?

how can you be so reasonable on this subject and yet throw Castillo under the bus…..

by slojoe on May 13, 2008 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shh.

I usually a pretty reasonable guy.

I still think it is reasonable to throw Castillo under the bus…

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 13, 2008 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

well again you're right, he aint that good

but, how can you not root for a damn waiver-wire pick-up…thats un-American…...

by slojoe on May 13, 2008 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He should give that Gold Glove back

he dropped a routine fly ball that cost us a game in the LCS to the damn Marlins. He catches it and we win that game and probably the series. I have no problem hating him for that.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on May 13, 2008 7:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Uh….he played for the evil ones too. That’s reason enough to give the guy a bitter reception.

Adoptive papa to Omar...so basically I'm screwed.

by PacBellBoozer on May 13, 2008 7:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

this

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 13, 2008 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

no one questioned Sox fans for wanting to lynch Bill Buckner

so when the Giants have their own ticker parade down King St. I’ll have no problem releasing the decades of hatred i will have built up for Jose Cruz Jr.
And for me, it wasn’t just the fly ball. Once the postseason began, offensively he turned into the worst starter on the team…with a nice, cool .000BA and .154OBP.

thanks jose.

by ExcuseMeSwing on May 13, 2008 8:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I’ll even make little Cruz dolls for us to burn, throw down the stairs, hang from nooses on our ceiling fans, etc.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on May 13, 2008 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Buckner

I think there’s plenty of reasons to question Red Sox fans re: Buckner. Yeah, they lost game 6 on Buckner’s error, but:

1. Why did they bring out Schiraldi for his 3rd straight inning of relief to start the 10th? He got the first two guys out then gave up three straight hits. Surely a guy who gives up 3 hits when he needs one out to clinch the WS deserves some blame.

2. Bob Stanley – Stanley comes in to relieve Schiraldi and throws the ball to the backstop to allow the tying run to score. So before Buckner makes his error the Red Sox relievers had gone from one strike away from winning the world series to giving up 3 hits and throwing a wp and allowing 2 runs to score to tie the game. That’s a big time choke job before the ball is even hit to Buckner.

3. Buckner was 36 years old at the time and playing on bad legs. He was in his 18th year of the big leagues.

4. It was only game 6. The Red Sox were leading 3-0 in the 6th inning of game 7 when Bruce Hurst gave up 3 runs. Then Schiraldi comes in for the 7th and proceeds to give up 3 runs in 1/3 of an inning.

Clearly there is plenty of blame to go around. The way most people seem to remember it is that the Red Sox lost the WS on Buckner’s error, but the truth is the Red Sox had already blown a 2 run lead with 2 outs, the game was tied and it wasn’t even the deciding game.

Speed, defense... and an almost fanatical devotion to getting picked off.

by SF Pete on May 13, 2008 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Excellent point

And reinforces my original point. Rarely can you blame a singular player for the ultimate outcome.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 13, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But it's a lot easier to remember a single play than the whole thing.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on May 13, 2008 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 13, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No one wants to say

The Giants and Marlins were basically even talent wise that series, and it really came down to a few plays and the luck of the baseball gods as to who advanced.

Much easier to blame some guy named Jose. I’m all for it.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on May 13, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And yet...

...they did, and we do.

All-Father Watch: 1.33 ERA, 3 saves, 0.98 WHIP, 19 Ks in 20 1/3 IP

by EliminateMe on May 13, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A championship is the only path to amnesty

at that point, Cruz, Dusty and Soloman Torres will be forgiven. Until then, fuck ‘em.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on May 13, 2008 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.

by Andy from DC on May 13, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jose Cruz, Jr., played for us? Funny, I don’t remember anything about that.

by Evan on May 13, 2008 8:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Hate, Hate, Hate

Will never forgive for such a simple play. No way the Giants lose at home with Schmidt on the mound, so he at least cost us a replay of the ‘89 CS.

by AngelWillSaveUs on May 13, 2008 8:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Hate.

Not really the player, but for the memories that waft about his person like dollar-store cologne.

by Grant on May 13, 2008 8:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I liked him before the Giants signed him. Liked him when he played for the Giants. Hated him for a week, then liked him again. I wasn’t even sure he was still in the league until last night. I still like him, no real reason.

by chilibean_3 on May 13, 2008 9:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Another Reason

He’s related to Jose Cruz Sr. who was on the ‘86 Astros. God I hated the ‘86 Astros. Not as much as the ‘87 Cardinals, but still…

Speed, defense... and an almost fanatical devotion to getting picked off.

by SF Pete on May 13, 2008 9:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

No, definitely not as hateworthy as the ‘87 Cardinals, except for Mike Scott. BOOOOOOOOOOOO

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on May 13, 2008 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

After Scott’s clinching no-hitter I tore up all my Astros baseball cards in protest. I couldn’t understand how the league could just let him get away with cheating.

Speed, defense... and an almost fanatical devotion to getting picked off.

by SF Pete on May 13, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

cheatin bastard

by slojoe on May 13, 2008 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

BOOOOOOOOOOOO

Why are we booing again? Oh yeah!

BOOOOOOOOOOOO

Adopted father of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on May 13, 2008 9:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

03 Marlins

What a run…

They had a solid Rotation with Beckett, Burnett, Penny, Pavano and Willis. Miguel Cabrerra was in right field! Mike Lowell, Pudge, and Derrek Lee were also in that line-up. Not Bad.

But they also had a couple of secret weapons too…

Jose Cruz Jr., and Bartman.

It was definitely meant to be.

"Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist."
-Crash Davis

"Cain, Lincecum, and Sanchez coverted me to Anit-Crashist Fascism in 08."
-Toofruss

by toofruss on May 13, 2008 9:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs