Beware the Sarchasm
Longtime readers of this site have probably picked up on a little secret. Heck, folks who have been reading for a couple of weeks know the score. When someone or something is praised on my site, everything goes to hell. I'm sure in a previous life, I wrote something like, "Man, those Romans! What an empire!", a commenter posted "LOLWVT?", and then the Roman Empire fell. I'm not superstitious; I just think that my opinions and thoughts control world events. We know what happens when I designate specific O_timism D_ys -- tears and corpses, not necessarily in that order.
So allow me to write about this awful bullpen with which the Giants are saddled. Good gravy; it's 2004 all over again.
- Keiichi Yabu has been a disaster of a long reliever. He can't throw strikes, and his arm isn't durable. That's all a team needs for a long reliever, but Yabu can't even provide that.
- Jack Taschner is bad enough as is, but why do the Giants think they can get by without a second lefty specialist to pitch 1/3rd of an inning every other day? Sooner or later, the organizational arrogance will catch up with them.
- Merkin Valdez just isn't getting it done. I can't find the link, but there were reports that he was throwing in the low-80s in winter ball. How do you give someone a bullpen job -- a high-leverage bullpen job, at that -- when the pitcher in question has a combination of inexperience and a limp fastball? Unbelievable.
- Tyler Walker: oh, this is a great idea. Let's take someone who was marginally effective when he was healthy, trade him, then reacquire him once his tendons melt. Oh, and he can learn a new pitch while he's rehabbing. Makes perfect sense. Even better, let's make this guy the setup man. Yeah, like he'll ever strike out another hitter.
- Brian Wilson is the perfect closer for this ragtag bunch of misfits. He couldn't even beat out Armando Benitez last season, so obviously it makes sense to just hand him the job this spring. Wilson gets rattled too easily, and I'm not sure if he has the right attitude to close. His pitches don't have any movement on them, and he doesn't have a breaking ball of note, so I'm not sure if he can ever succeed as a major league reliever, much less as a closer.
There you have it: a bullpen that is the sole reason for the Giants' sub-.500 season to this point. Bullpens are often filled with spare parts. Sometimes the spare parts come from within an organization, and sometimes they come as lesser-known free agents. That's just dandy, but it doesn't mean that an organization can just stop trying. Where are the big name free agents? Where are the Scott Eyres, Joe Borowskis, and Doug Brocails on this team? The Giants can take all of the offseason to fix this problem, but that doesn't mean I can't be disgusted with the bullpen right now.
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You neglected to mention the worst move of all
The DFAing of Steve Kline. I mean, that was at least pretty okay!
Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.
by delorean on
May 1, 2008 9:16 AM PDT
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that = he
more coffee, pleeze
Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.
by delorean on
May 1, 2008 9:23 AM PDT
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You know what – This whole “Let’s give Fred Lewis an everyday job and see what happens” thing is failing as well. There is nothing that this guy has shown us that merits this oppurtunity. His .337 batting average is just a product of bloopers and pitchers having a bad day when facing him. I haven’t seen this guy hit a ball hard yet.
Also this Lincecum guy, the league is eventually going to catch up with him and I don’t care what anyone says, anyone who balks in that situation should not be given rotation spot. Send him down!!!
by WilliamVanLandingham on
May 1, 2008 9:19 AM PDT
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LOLWVT is not funny at all. Jeez Grant you are so predictable and lame. History. Who needs it?
And I think it’s time to shave Merkin.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
May 1, 2008 9:24 AM PDT
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I found out yesterday that it's Mer-keen...
who’d a thunk?
by WTF on
May 1, 2008 10:18 AM PDT
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Yeah it makes it a lot less funny. To me he will always be Snatchwig.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
May 1, 2008 10:25 AM PDT
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In German he’s Snatchvig.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
May 1, 2008 10:50 AM PDT
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I think he produced Nirwana’s “Newermind”
Fukusabean for not signing Fukudome
by Duelling Brandos on
May 1, 2008 11:22 AM PDT
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always thought of him as crotchtoupee
by tyrannoman on
May 1, 2008 3:15 PM PDT
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Is it the 6th or 7th inning?
< speedy oil change guy voice>
Then it must be time to insert the Merkin into the pickle.
It may sound backwards but it works well for us.
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
by daveinexile on
May 1, 2008 10:27 AM PDT
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I know this is a bit late, but...
I think the whole reason for needing a merkin in the first place makes any shaving unnecessary.
by Johnny Disaster on
May 1, 2008 8:19 PM PDT
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well yes but SHAVE THE MERKIN is funnier than saying “Wow Valdez sucks DFA him.”
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
May 2, 2008 7:34 AM PDT
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True
I was thinking along the lines of ‘trim the merkin, its getting unruly’...
by Johnny Disaster on
May 2, 2008 1:35 PM PDT
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He can get into some hairy situations.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
May 2, 2008 3:04 PM PDT
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Yeah, Sanchez has been pretty terrible
If he wasn’t, why wouldn’t he have more W’s? I mean come on, we all know the W-L is like the most important stat in pitching. Jeez.
Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.
by Andy from DC on
May 1, 2008 9:24 AM PDT
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In all seriousness, the good news is that the Giants have taken steps to remedy this situation by moving their best pitcher to the bullpen.
by hammystyle on
May 1, 2008 9:47 AM PDT
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Guess what?
“This bullpen has a fever, and the only prescription….is MORE BRAD HENNESSEY!”

Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.
by Kitspool on
May 1, 2008 9:48 AM PDT
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the Minster of Cow Bell Rules!!!
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
by daveinexile on
May 1, 2008 10:28 AM PDT
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He puts his pants on one leg at a time
2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!
by Goofus on
May 1, 2008 12:21 PM PDT
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" Notice the crease on the top of your lip? I put it there before you were born."
Oh yes I know what I have to dig up this weekend.
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
by daveinexile on
May 1, 2008 12:32 PM PDT
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and makes gold records!
Ryan Paul: Two four-letter words are better than one.
by The Enchanter on
May 1, 2008 9:18 PM PDT
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Did you notice
that Hennessey was mysteriously missing from Grant’s post?
"Candlestick made me a man." - Will Clark
by MeSoKrabby on
May 1, 2008 10:49 AM PDT
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When you’re that solid, you don’t deserve criticism.
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on
May 1, 2008 11:11 AM PDT
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Highest Paid in the Majors
And the biggest earner hasn’t even pitched out of the pen yet!
by SheboyganBratwurst on
May 1, 2008 9:59 AM PDT
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Flip-Flop the Bullpen and Starting Rotation
Hell, we should just flip-flop the starters and that bullpen. Then we’ll have a rotation that looks like this:
1) Brian Wilson
2) Jack Taschner
3) Tyler Walker
4) Merkin Valdez
5) Keiichi Yabu
6) Barry Zito (Spot Starter)
Go see my Giants blog at http://www.michaelnewjr.com
by Mike New on
May 1, 2008 10:12 AM PDT
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+1
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on
May 1, 2008 11:11 AM PDT
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Those kids on the infield, Durham and Aurilia, are really gettin’ it done.
Youthful enthusiasm is totally underrated.
by WTF on
May 1, 2008 10:19 AM PDT
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and there's this kid Dave Roberts
i think they’re hiding him in triple A, maybe. a holy terror on the basepaths! wait til he gets up to the show.
Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.
by delorean on
May 1, 2008 10:23 AM PDT
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The guy's got 'future starter' written all over him
Gamer.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 1, 2008 12:30 PM PDT
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This "Gamer idea" isn't working...
The whole speed and defense thing really doesn’t work with this team—the infield consists of such stellar defenders as Castillo, Durham, and Bowker.
Wait…I don’t think I did that right…
Proud pappa of....STEVE HOLM!!
by UnleashTheGore on
May 1, 2008 10:23 AM PDT
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I think speed and defense has evolved into
Speed and lights-out pitching.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 10:33 AM PDT
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What team are you watching?
Sources tell me that the Giants are old and in the way.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 1, 2008 12:30 PM PDT
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Go D-Blanks!
Sorry . But knowing Arizona’s underdog status after 38 years of flogging the dog for the Giants – the perennial powerhouse -I feel supernaturally compelled to kick them to the curb and throw my considerable support behind a truly deserving organization.
Aaron "Swag" Rowand
by victor frankenstein on
May 1, 2008 10:48 AM PDT
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What "June Swoon"?!
Oh, right, It’s only May 1st.
"You're all worthless and weak, now drop and give me twenty!"
by Lidocaine on
May 1, 2008 10:59 AM PDT
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My adopted son Matt Downs. Bill Mueller without the two-flap helmet .
by nvsfg on
May 1, 2008 11:01 AM PDT
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This baby is off the charts, mmmhey!

2008: My previous assessment may have been overly optimistic.
by EliminateMe on
May 1, 2008 11:04 AM PDT
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Oh, a Sarcasm Detector….. That’s REAL useful!
Proud supporter of the Fightin' Hydrants.
by Little Napoleon on
May 1, 2008 11:47 AM PDT
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Some more Home Runs would be nice
Giants last in NL with 16. Just saying…
"You're all worthless and weak, now drop and give me twenty!"
by Lidocaine on
May 1, 2008 11:07 AM PDT
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Honestly
What real baseball fan gives a fuck about home runs? That’s like saying “well, the warriors are fun to watch and all, but I really wish they would just dunk more”.
Home runs please the weekender and the casual fan. “Ooo exciting he hit that one out. Is that Barry Bonds up there, does he still play for the giants?”
I would much rather watch a team play cunning baseball than batting practice.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 11:13 AM PDT
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I dunno, I got a pretty big kick out of Freddy hitting one into the water last weekend.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
May 1, 2008 11:43 AM PDT
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Cornball don’t lie.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
May 1, 2008 11:44 AM PDT
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Some guys dig it too.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
2008: My previous assessment may have been overly optimistic.
by EliminateMe on
May 1, 2008 12:06 PM PDT
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I’m a guy; I dig the long ball. I am not ashamed.
by cornball on
May 1, 2008 12:10 PM PDT
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Don’t get me wrong, nobody was louder than me yelling RUN RUN RUN at Velez when he was flying around the bases on that ninth inning RBI triple Saturday night. I just like watching my team get runs.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
May 1, 2008 12:13 PM PDT
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I would much rather watch a team play cunning baseball than batting practice.
“Cunning baseball” for the Giants is getting picked off when on base and flaring a single now and then.
http://www.baycityball.com
by xanthan on
May 1, 2008 11:49 AM PDT
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I’ve been a double quotin’ fool lately, not sure what thats about!
http://www.baycityball.com
by xanthan on
May 1, 2008 11:49 AM PDT
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I have a way with words and have always considered myself a cunning linguist.
2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!
by Goofus on
May 1, 2008 12:24 PM PDT
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A toast to the queer old dean
I
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 1, 2008 12:32 PM PDT
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I <3 spoonerisms
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 1, 2008 12:32 PM PDT
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Of course, goofus didn't actually say one
For some reason it triggered my reaction to “a cunning display of stunts”. Now THAT’s a spoonerism!
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 1, 2008 12:33 PM PDT
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loves me some cunning baseball
CUNNING STUNTS TOO!
by WTF on
May 1, 2008 12:42 PM PDT
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Humm, like I said. I was just saying...
But come to think of it when Barry was at bat, not too many Giants got picked off of 1st base trying to steal.
"You're all worthless and weak, now drop and give me twenty!"
by Lidocaine on
May 1, 2008 11:19 AM PDT
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What does that have to do with anything?
I don’t think Klesko or Aurilia were big threats to steal… The giants have stolen something like 33 bases in april – and guess what? It’s working.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 11:28 AM PDT
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No, it's not
Giants are 2nd to last in all of baseball in runs scored. Don’t kid yourself, their record is as good as it is much more because of their non-Zito starting pitching and a lights-out bullpen than because of those 33 (?) stolen bases.
I was THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on
May 1, 2008 11:38 AM PDT
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To work or not to work
How many runs would they have scored by now if they WEREN’T running the bases like they are?
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on
May 1, 2008 12:52 PM PDT
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Probably even fewer
I can’t be sure though, because along with those stolen bases they’ve also run into an awful lot of outs. In any case, the point stands, the offense is not good and therefore whatever they are doing is not working.
I was THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on
May 1, 2008 1:35 PM PDT
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Jesus, some people just don't get it...
If this offense plays station to station baseball, they score zero runs. Like literally zero. It would be so freaking pathetic it wouldn’t even be fun to complain about.
Just because the net is not sufficient doesn’t mean that you aren’t making the best out of what you have got.
The offense is bad because the over all talent level is low. The reason the giants are doing much better than expected is because they are doing extremely well with what little talent they do have. Utilizing the strengths (speed) is the key to being successful in any given situation.
Those of you who think that this team should sit around and wait to get bumped up one base and then eventually end up @ home are absolutely clueless about the game of baseball or this baseball team.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 2:28 PM PDT
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The reason the giants are doing much better than expected is because they are doing extremely well with what little talent they do have. Utilizing the strengths (speed) is the key to being successful in any given situation.Those of you who think that this team should sit around and wait to get bumped up one base and then eventually end up @ home are absolutely clueless about the game of baseball or this baseball team.
You take your personal opinion, you declare it as a fact, and then say that all the people that disagree with you are stupid. What a productive way to have a discussion.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
May 2, 2008 1:42 AM PDT
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His opinion might be correct
In a low run scoring environment, such as when happens when the 2 teams have trouble scoring, outs become less valuable, whereas a single run becomes more valuable. Thus, it might make sense to trade / sacrifice outs for a run or 2.
Conversely, in a high scoring environment, such as the modern MLB environment, outs become more valuable, whereas the value of any single run decreases. Thus, it makes sense to conserve outs, and not sacrifice outs to get a run.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on
May 2, 2008 8:05 AM PDT
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Your 2008 SFgiants
Is a low run scoring enviroment. Period.
“Modern MLB enviroment” IMO is going to change over the next few years as the powerball effects of steroids leave the game. We will see.
By the way, the total # of runs scored last year vs 20 years ago isnt that different, it’s just how they are scored.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 2, 2008 9:49 AM PDT
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20 years ago
The NL scored on average about .8 runs per game less than last year, FWIW.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 2, 2008 9:54 AM PDT
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I think
I think a lot of people overestimate the effect that getting steroids out is going to have on powerball. It will have an effect, absolutely, but the game is still played with harder/lighter bats, smaller parks, and balls that fly farther than the bats, parks, and balls were 15 – even 10! – years ago.
The game equipment is being tailored toward the power game. There will be a difference, but I don’t think we’ll ever see something completely like “the game before roids ruled.”
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
May 2, 2008 11:46 AM PDT
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It may not be exactly the same as the pre ‘roid era, but I think it will be similar. Pitching and hitting league wide tend to go in cycles. I fell like overall, we will have an uptick in pitching and a downward correction in hitting over the next few years. Then, about 2023, we’ll see several guys make a run at Barry’s single season HR record. Just the natural ebb and flow of the game.
by tyrannoman on
May 2, 2008 12:22 PM PDT
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Here’s an interesting statistic.
The Giants have score 93 runs. Typically, a team with their EQA (i.e, distribution of offensive events) would score 113.
There a couple explaintations for this:
1) bad hit bunching (you can attribute this to lack of clutch, or luck as you will – basically bad with RISP)
2) bad base running
I have really tried to find some stats on team baserunning. But can’t find anything other than SB/CS – which is certainly not hurting the Giants (33/42, 76%)
While I was looking around – I noticed that the Giants 2008 sOPS+ for their infield in 67. On pace for worse hitting infield EVAH. (sOPS+ is the performace of the infield relative to other infields in the league)
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on
May 2, 2008 9:21 AM PDT
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The Giants are well above the mendoza line
With Baserunning. However, the BA w/ RISP is miserable, which is not a surprise given the generally agreed offensive ineptitude.
I would suggest that low RISP (Castillo?) is the explination for the 20 run deficiency.
How many times have we seen one or two runners on w/ no outs, and then proceed to score no runs?
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 2, 2008 9:47 AM PDT
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Well, I looked it up. They are hitting .227/.292/.314 with men on base, and no better with RISP.
Their overall stats are: .245/.306/.370, which is really not much better (14 points of OBP only).
Approximating, and not correcting that the league generally hits better with men on… they should have:
4 more HR, 3 more 3B, 4 more 2B, and actually 2 fewer walks. 11 XBH fewer than you would expect. Either my math is wrong, or they had just as many 1B as you wuld expect.
For those PA with men on, they averaged 1.3 men on. I would say that each XBH would score 1.25 more guys, so yeah, most of it was batting with RISP (14 out of 20 runs).
the remaing 6 is likely to be on-base outs and DPs and the like.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on
May 2, 2008 11:17 AM PDT
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I know we've had this discussion before
But do you know if that SB% includes pickoffs in the CS total?
I was THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on
May 2, 2008 10:24 AM PDT
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I think that it does… at least the last time we had the discussion, it counted the POs that we rememberd.
Velez this year, acccording to bb-ref has 6 SB 2 CS. I know that he had at least one “true” pick off (i.e., not a “blown steal” where he runs to second as pitcher throws behind him).
Other CS for VElez?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on
May 2, 2008 11:02 AM PDT
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I was curious about that too.
"You're all worthless and weak, now drop and give me twenty!"
by Lidocaine on
May 2, 2008 11:22 AM PDT
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Yeah, it’s kind of hard to make an out when the ball flies out of the park. And I think it’s easy to score runs then, too.
by cornball on
May 1, 2008 11:43 AM PDT
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Whatever, I give up.
The steroid era has ruined many fan’s perception of baseball.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 12:36 PM PDT
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No, No, No
You make some valid points. And those 33 stolen bags are huge, especially for a team like the Giants over the years. One could argue that this (yours) is the game that needs to be played to win at AT@T Park. It would just be nice to have a little more pop in the line-up. That’s all.
"You're all worthless and weak, now drop and give me twenty!"
by Lidocaine on
May 1, 2008 12:44 PM PDT
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Power and Roids Aren't the Same Thing
I’m not saying that every guy should be putting up forty homers, or even twenty. Having a power hitter – a legitimate power hitter capable of hitting lots of doubles, thirty homers and driving lots of guys in – completely changes a line-up. Just having one in your line-up gives you extra baserunners because pitchers are afraid to walk batters in front of real power hitters (current, non-roid examples: Pujols, Ortiz, Ramirez, Rodriguez, Utley, Lee, Cabrera, Chipper, Guerrero, Wright, it is possible to be a power hitter without roids). Hell, at this point I’d settle for a Lyle Overbay/Jeff Kent type of doubles, RBI hitter. The Giants don’t have a single hitter like that and if you don’t think that would make this team better AND more watchable (I can’t stand watching Castillo bat with men on base), then I don’t know what to say.
I agree that the speed game has been a huge boost, though, and am glad that the Giants are really committing to it right now. Imagine how bad they’d be without the SBs and all the running.
by cornball on
May 1, 2008 12:46 PM PDT
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Obviously having a power hitter in the lineup helps.
And yes, the team lacks a power hitter. That has less to do with homeruns than it does with slg % and avg w/ RISP.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 2:32 PM PDT
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What you said
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
May 1, 2008 3:16 PM PDT
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I suspect Pujols at least was using, but yeah.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
May 1, 2008 3:17 PM PDT
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Why?
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
May 2, 2008 1:43 AM PDT
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The implications of a former trainer he worked with being linked to the Grimsley case pinged my radar bigtime.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
May 2, 2008 7:35 AM PDT
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Who needs those guys? We’ve got Molina/Durham!
by paboperfecto on
May 1, 2008 8:25 PM PDT
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Dude
The game CHANGES over time. In fact, that’s what things in general do. Not being resentful of those changes is often the difference between being able to enjoy new things and being that old-fashioned codger nobody likes talking to.
Baseball are made so that they are easier to hit homeruns with. Bats are made with lighter wood (which is why we get so many more boken bats) because lighter wood makes it easier to hit home runs. Ballparks are being made smaller because, well, yeah.
Baseball is not what it was in the ‘70s. GOOD baseball today is actually a sluggers game. That’s how you win baseball games. That’s how you devise gameplans. It’s no less cunning, it’s different. You still have to find the right things to value and the right ways to play different situations, it’s just the rules for those qualities and those situations isn’t what it used to be.
People who think that hit-and-runs and steals and bunts are good baseball are most of the time just getting “good” baseball and “old” baseball confused.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
May 1, 2008 1:10 PM PDT
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So let's just say for fun that Balance is the key.
And that the Red Sox are a good offensive team.
They are pretty much in the middle of the MLB in HR and the middle in SB, yet toward the top in Runs.
So a good lineup has balance, and a good manager uses that to his advantage.
"You're all worthless and weak, now drop and give me twenty!"
by Lidocaine on
May 1, 2008 2:05 PM PDT
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Yes
I’m not trying to say that HRS R EVERYTHING.
There is still a place for hit-and-runs and steals and bunts in today’s game, and effectively using them can be the difference between a good team and a great team. My only point is that there is more of a place for power and less of a place for small-ball in today’s game. That what used to be good baseball is somewhat different today (not a total 180, but not the same as what it used to be). And I overcompensated that point in my above comment. I took it too far to the right for the sake of making my point. Hopefully the point is clear, though.
Balance is absolutely key, Lidocaine (or should I say, LidoCAIN?). Antiquation is just a minor pet peeve of mine. I’m not having a good day for not overreacting today. We’re somehow hitting all of my soft spots….
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
May 1, 2008 2:23 PM PDT
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Sounds like we agree
I’m just very glad we don’t see the Giants playing station to station when they don’t have the lineup to support it. Good baseball is playing to the strengths of your team. Being able to hit more home runs in of itself is not really a very good offensive metric. Being able to score more runs in general is (and there are many ways to do this).
Judging the merit of a team based on how many home runs they hit is a completely inane thing to do, much as judging a team on the number of strikeouts their pitching staff amasses would be. The Giants being last in the NL (and likely ML) in HR suggests that they are deficient in power – yes. It doesn’t however mean a whole lot other than that.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 2:41 PM PDT
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Bea Arthur’s toes are gross!
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on
May 1, 2008 3:27 PM PDT
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STOP WITH THE LOW BLOWS!
We both know her toes are perfect, dammit!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
May 1, 2008 5:22 PM PDT
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As lidocaine states, Balance is key
I think that we are going to see a regression in the frequency of the longball to pre-roid levels over the next 2-3 years (IMO we are already seeing it). Consequently, we will see a change in strategy to match.
I think scoring runs is good baseball. To score runs, you need to be able to intelligently use the players that you have. That means if you do have a lineup of sluggers, that’s the game you play – if you don’t then you need to play differently. Playing as if you have a lineup of sluggers when you don’t is bad baseball, and that is what I am very very glad the Giants are NOT doing.
I think most teams over the last 6 or 7 years have gotten accustomed to a lineup of sluggers because of the proliferation of power in the ML (IMO due to roids). I think that as that fades out (hopefully roids fades out) we will see a more diverse managerial approach emerge.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 2:38 PM PDT
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My apologies
I completely misread the point you were originally trying to make, and was responding based on that misreading. That was my fault, not yours.
I do agree with this comment. You’re making sense, indeed.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
May 1, 2008 2:41 PM PDT
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Good. I always make sense
To myself, anyway :)
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 2:42 PM PDT
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To defend myself
I feel like my words have gotten twisted around to make it seem like I’m advocating that this Giants team should sit around and wait for the longball. I’ll tentatively agree (tentatively, because I haven’t seen an actual analysis of the issue) that if they did that, they would in fact score fewer runs than they are now. I’ll even agree that they’re taking the best possible approach for the players they have. However, even with this amazing speed game, the Giants are currently dead last in the major leagues in runs scored per game. I’m not saying you should judge a team solely based on the number of HR it hits, just that if you want to convince me that home runs are worthless, you could probably find a lot better examples than the 2008 Giants.
I was THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on
May 1, 2008 4:04 PM PDT
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Not saying that they are worthless
They have a very specific worth. A home run in of itself is worth 1 run. A home run with men on is worth as many runs as it yeilds.
The giants have hit 16 home runs this season. If the bases were loaded for each of those (maximum # of runs generated) we would have 84 runs. We’ve got 93 now.
That’s a dumb analysis, but it gives you the picture ;)
The home run is worth a lot – worth more than any hit in baseball. However, it is only one of a myriad way to score runs and win, and is no more valuable than it’s numerical face value.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 4:09 PM PDT
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Yet, you said
“What real baseball fan gives a fuck about home runs?”
Well I do. Why? Because it’s worth more than any hit in baseball.
I was THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on
May 1, 2008 4:21 PM PDT
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Becuse I get sick of people thinking that homeruns are somehow special
If your analysis of the Giant’s (or any team’s) struggling offense is “they don’t hit enough home runs” it only shows that you don’t really understand baseball very well. Its the same as analyzing a struggling pitching staff and saying “they need to strike more batters out.” It shows a very limited understanding of how to win in baseball. They are plenty of ways to get runners across home plate that don’t involve home runs, and plenty of ways to get batters out w/o striking them out. Just because it is the most direct and publically visible doesn’t mean it is the driver.
The home run craze of the last 6-7 years (or I guess almost ten) was great at first, but now it’s just left a sour tase in my mouth.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 4:25 PM PDT
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In fact, it's even worse than the strikeout comparison.
There is such a thing as a strikeout situation. Runner on 3rd and nobody out? That is a sitation wherin the pitcher and manager are specifically trying to strike the batter out.
There is no “home run situation” in baseball. There is no situation where you are specifically trying to hit a home run. That’s just silly. Players may do it for their own personal gratification, but there is never a situation the game where that is the best reasonable thing to try for. That is why they call it a “base hit situation”. Can you imagine John Miller saying “okay, so what the batter needs to do here is hit a home run”?
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 4:30 PM PDT
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Q&A
Have you ever seen a batter reach on a cheap hit?
Have you ever seen a batter reach on an error?
Have you ever seen a batter advance a runner with an out, and then seen that runner later score due – at least in part – to that advancement?
If you answered "Yes" to any of the above questions, then you’ve just proven your previous point about strikeout situations to be – at least in part – wrong. Anytime a ball is put into play, there is a chance – some would say an almost static, entirely predictable chance – that ball will result in a hit (no matter how well-struck). Ignoring that, the difference between a strikeout and an out put in play can often be the difference between a run scoring or not scoring (even in non-"strikeout situations"). So it shouldn’t come as no surprise that pitchers who strikeout the most batters usually are the same ones who allow the least amount of hits. In short, a strikeout is always a good thing for the tam in the field, not just in "strikeout situations".
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on
May 1, 2008 4:52 PM PDT
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See below.
In breif – huh?
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 4:56 PM PDT
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I'm not saying they're "special"
But I do believe they’re a signal of a good offense. While it’s possible to have a good offense w/o hitting lots of homeruns, it’s nearly impossible to have a bad offense while doing so.
I was THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on
May 1, 2008 4:43 PM PDT
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My last sentence is a grammatical nightmare. I meant to say that it’s nearly impossible for a team to have a bad offense while at the same time hitting a bunch of home runs.
I was THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on
May 1, 2008 4:50 PM PDT
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Dammit, posted @ bottom
Obviously a strikeout is a good thing even in non-strikeout situations, that is not really the point.
If I could have the choice of a strike out or a softly batted ball to 2b, I will choose the strikeout. That doesn’t mean that a pitcher who doesn’t strike many out is any less valuable than one who does. Plenty of pitchers strike relatively few out yet still succeed.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 4:54 PM PDT
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“Plenty of pitchers strike relatively few out yet still succeed.”
And plenty of people have gotten rich by winning the lottery, but that doesn’t mean it’s the best way to invest your money.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on
May 1, 2008 6:30 PM PDT
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lottery, eh?
"Candlestick made me a man." - Will Clark
by MeSoKrabby on
May 1, 2008 11:39 PM PDT
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Where can I invest in your lottery?
by tyrannoman on
May 2, 2008 12:26 PM PDT
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It depends how you define
“relatively few”.
Once you get below a certain point in Ks, around 4.5 Ks per 9 IP, very few pitchers can maintain sustained success.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on
May 2, 2008 8:30 AM PDT
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Yes, a team that hits a lot of homeruns typically has a strong offense...
I’m not sure what that has to do with anything, however. Plenty of strong offenses that hit an “average” amount of homeruns as well.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 4:56 PM PDT
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I am really failing
At this whole reply thing.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 4:56 PM PDT
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yes, the usually lead the league in OBP.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on
May 2, 2008 9:26 AM PDT
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“I get sick of people thinking that homeruns are somehow special”
They are special—it’s the only play in baseball which allows the batter to score.
It’s like saying about football, “I get sick of people thinking that touchdowns are somehow special.” Sure, you can win by scoring tons of tons of field goals, it’s just a lot harder that way, with much less margin for error.
“The home run craze of the last 6-7 years (or I guess almost ten) was great at first, but now it’s just left a sour tase in my mouth.”
This much is clear.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on
May 1, 2008 4:59 PM PDT
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The problem with the Giants offense is not that they don’t hit very many home runs (how can you say “enough… did they win every game?” – is that they don’t get on base and they don’t hit for power and they don’t hit for average. All of these things are good (OBP most important).
Would hitting more home runs help? YES! So would hitting more singles, doubles, triples, and drawing more walks.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on
May 2, 2008 9:25 AM PDT
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To say that what is wrong with the Giants is that they don't hit enough home runs
Is like saying what is wrong with the giants is they don’t hit enough singles , or walk enough, or strike out too much, or GIDP too much.
Its one part of the game. The giants as a whole are lacking in numerous offensive catagories. The home run is not inherently special for some reason. With men on base, a double is 50-75% as effective as a home run. Singling it out as the primary problem with this offense is stupid.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 4:22 PM PDT
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I think
The distinction has to be between THE Giants and THESE Giants. I think every point you’re trying to make is about THESE Giants, and some people are interpreting (or reinterpreting) the argument the same way that I originally did, in terms of THE Giants.
In very general terms (significantly general), the biggest problem with THE Giants IS that they don’t hit enough homeruns (or to be more fair, hit for more power).
The problem with THESE Giants are different. if they had a power hitter who wasn’t hitting homeruns, that would be a problem. That’s not the case. THESE Giants have other things going wrong. Like getting picked off all the time.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
May 1, 2008 5:28 PM PDT
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It is one part of the game
It is a very important part of the game.
A HR is on average worth 1.4 runs. A double, 0.8 runs. A SB 0.2-0.3 runs.
Speed is very important. Not so much for SBs, but for D. Fast players tend to play better D than slow players.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on
May 2, 2008 8:36 AM PDT
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Stolen bases are not a driver of an offense
Certainly, they are a modifier. It’s not so much the stolen bases that are making/breaking this offense (altho they are certainly helping).
I guess I have a hard time seeing how HR’s are a very important part of the game – while they do account for the most runs of any single play, the frequency is so low that they don’t account for nearly as large of a part of an offense as some see to think.
Saying a home run is a very important part of the game is like saying the triple play is a very important part of the game. Yes, it is the best way to score runs / get outs in any given situation. However, the frequency is low enough (obviously the triple play is much much lower) that it’s relavence in terms of the whole is diminished.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 2, 2008 10:04 AM PDT
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If stolen bases are not making/breaking the offense
Then what is? The answer: lack of A) getting on base and B) turning those runners into runs. Getting on base and driving those runners in is what good offenses do. No one here is saying that the HR is the only way to do that. We’re merely saying that it is a way and that a good offense would likely be hitting more home runs (not to mention doubles and singles) than we’re seeing from the Giants right now.
I was THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on
May 2, 2008 11:04 AM PDT
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So in that light, where is the disagreement with everything that I have been saying?
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 2, 2008 11:41 AM PDT
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Honestly
I think we generally agree now that this has all shaken out. However, what really set me off and made me want to argue with you is when you opened up by saying “What real baseball fan gives a fuck about home runs?” I resent the implication that because I and others recognize the value of the home run (and the double and the single) to an offense, we’re somehow not real baseball fans. I now realize that’s not what really what you were trying to say, but that doesn’t change the fact that you said it and it made me angry.
I was THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on
May 2, 2008 12:07 PM PDT
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+1
I don’t think any of us on this thread so far disagree with the larger point FairweatherFan is trying to make: that there are many ways to score runs, that hitting lots of home runs isn’t the only way to offensive success, and that this Giants team is capable of playing a successful form of small ball with their speed and pitching.
The problem - in my opinion - is that FF is making his point badly. He’s relying on grandiose statements which weaken his actual argument ("What real baseball fan gives a fuck about home runs?”, “I get so sick of people thinking that homeruns are somehow special”, “If your analysis of the Giant’s (or any team’s) struggling offense is "they don’t hit enough home runs" it only shows that you don’t really understand baseball very well”), as well as strawman arguments to make the people he’s debating with seem to resemble Earl Weaver circa 1972 (claiming they support “playing station to station ball”, “trying to hit a homerun” and “waiting around for a homerun”) even though, as far as I can tell, no one on this board ever suggested anything even resembling this approach.
I think these types of arguments pull people in to for a debate (myself included), but rarely end up with any real points being made, because we’re not actually arguing for the position he seems to be arguing against.
Just one man’s opinion.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on
May 2, 2008 1:17 PM PDT
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The linear weights formulas
ALREADY account for the rarity of the HR. Again, that batting runs formula is derived from ACTUAL GAMES DATING BACK TO 1901.
Not based on conjecture.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on
May 2, 2008 11:43 AM PDT
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I agree too. Except in extreme cases, I don’t think HRs occur often enough to wait around for them to happen, especially as the roid era becomes a thing of the past. Manufacturing runs is less likely to slump.
2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!
by Goofus on
May 1, 2008 3:11 PM PDT
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"extreme cases"
That could be described as several teams in the ML for the last 6-7 years.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 1, 2008 4:13 PM PDT
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"Manufacturing" runs, sacrificing outs
makes sense IF the run scoring environment is low. It has nothing to with it being less likely to slump.
In the “roid era”, or any high scoring era, unless you have a great pitching staff and / or great D and a pathethic offense, sacrificing outs for a run, or you are in a very close game, “manufacturing” runs, results in negative value.
This is a basic linear weights formula with run values for individual events like HRs and SBs; The run values are derived from actual game stats, so they are not just the result of conjecture:
Batting Runs = (.46 * 1B)+(1.02 * 3B)(1.40 * HR))+(.30 * SB)(.60 * CS)+(.25 * (AB-H))-(.50 * OOB)
Note, this was derived by Pete Palmer in the 70s, published in his seminal book The Hidden Game of Baseball, in the 80s, and is based on REAL GAMES stretching back to 1901. So, those values are not based on merely the modern era.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on
May 2, 2008 8:24 AM PDT
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UGH, Freaking SBN 2.0
It swallowed a negative sign in the formula, trying again:
Batting Runs = (.46 * 1B)+(1.02 * 3B)(1.40 * HR)) + (.30 * SB) ( – .60 *CS) + ( – .25 *(AB-H)) – (.50 * OOB)
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on
May 2, 2008 8:27 AM PDT
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I hate SBN 2.0. UGH
Batting Runs = ( .46 * 1B ) + ( .80 * 2B ) + ( 1.02 * 3B) + ( 1.40 * HR ) + (.33 * ( BB + HBP)) + (.30 * SB) + (- .60 * CS) + (- .25 * ( AB – H)) – (.50 * OOB)
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on
May 2, 2008 8:34 AM PDT
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But is there an easy formula to adjust this for run environment?
by Evan on
May 2, 2008 9:00 AM PDT
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Everything posted above is dependent
On other variables. If you have a pitching staff that on average cannot hold the opposing team to less than 4 runs a game, then you need to take an offensive approach that will on average score more than 4 runs a game. In that case, Sacraficing outs for runs wouldn’t make much sense ‘cause your just going to lose anyway. losing 7-4 is the same as losing 7-0 ‘cause you waited around for the big inning
If your pitching staff, like the 2008 giants, is very likely to hold the opposing team to less than 4 runs, then you can manufacture runs to get your 4 runs and call it good. Losing 2-0 because you had RISP but didn’t manufacture, and instead waited for the big inning (that rarely comes with an inept offense) is retarded when you could have won that game by sacraficing a few outs for runs.
With the Giants pitching staff, they will typically allow less than 5 runs a game, which means that the giants need to figure out a way to score 4-5 runs a game to win. In that circumstance given their offense, sacraficing outs for runs is perfectly acceptable.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 2, 2008 10:01 AM PDT
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No matter how you look at it
A HR is tremendously important.
Now, if your offense sucks, cannot get on base, no power, while you are great at pitching, then yes, sacrificing outs makes sense.
It still does not change the fact that HRs are tremendously important.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on
May 2, 2008 11:41 AM PDT
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Tremendously important
Means that you count on HR’s to win games?
As in, if we don’t hit any HR this game, we will probably lose?
That is an extremely poor strategy.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on
May 2, 2008 11:42 AM PDT
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You can find the run values
for HRs from 1919-2000, for a whole bunch of teams, from David Smyth’s BaseRuns.
The chart is huge, so I won’t post it here. Regardless of era, regardless of team, the marginal value of a HR is around 1.4-1.5 runs. Regardless of era, regardless of team, the marginal value of a double is around 0.75-0.8 runs.
This numbers are based ON ACTUAL GAMES. Not conjecture on what is poor strategy or not.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on
May 2, 2008 12:08 PM PDT
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Easy way,
not easy for me, at least.
You are probably aware of this, so I apologise if you are, there are linear formulas that are tweaked for the modern run environment, such as David Smyth’s BaseRuns, or Tango’s Linear Weights by the 24 base/out states, 1999-2002, Linear Weights, by Runner on Base and Outs etc.
OTOH, formulas like Baseball Prospectus’ EQA, or just the basic Batting Runs formular, are derived so that they apply better to all environments.
You’ve probably seen it, but if you haven’t, Clay Davenport’s article on BPro introducing EQA gives a good idea on the accuracy of some of the various run estimation formulas.
Metric Correl RMSE
Equivalent Average .928 24.13
BaseRuns .930 24.38
eXtrapolated Runs (per PA) .920 24.83
Runs Created (per PA) .928 24.96
Total Average .926 25.33
f you only looked at the years from 1971 to 2003, eXtrapolated Runs would have a virtually identical RMSE to EqA (20.98 for EqA, 21.06 for XR), while BaseRuns actually does a little better (20.77). However, if you look at the 30 years from 1871 to 1900, the same XR and BsR equations are getting more than 60% worse—their RMSEs shoot up to 34.16 and 33.41, respectively. EqA, in contrast, “only” loses about 50%, scoring a 31.69. EqA is less sensitive to the conditions of the times than many of the other metrics which have been “tuned” to fit recent performances, so it’s especially good for historical performances.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on
May 2, 2008 12:01 PM PDT
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What I’m interested in at the moment is how strategy changes in a low-run-scoring environment. The Giants are poor at scoring runs and good (theoretically, not yet actually) at preventing them, and they play in a slight pitcher’s park. So their linear weights are going to be somewhat different than, say, the Phillies’. Home runs and stolen bases (and aggressive baserunning generally) will be more valuable, walks less valuable, etc. But how much?
There ought to be a quick&dirty way to put some figures to these changes in context, but I don’t know what it is.
by Evan on
May 2, 2008 1:37 PM PDT
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How about looking at
Smyth’s values for the teams from 1919-2000, pick a team whose offensive profile is similar to the Giants? That’s fairly quick and dirty, no idea how accurate it would be.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on
May 2, 2008 2:46 PM PDT
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It enhanced my perception.
I saw a lot more home runs , nyuk nyuk
Aaron "Swag" Rowand
by victor frankenstein on
May 1, 2008 9:08 PM PDT
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test
.
Aaron "Swag" Rowand
by victor frankenstein on
May 1, 2008 9:09 PM PDT
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testes testes
One two, one two three
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on
May 2, 2008 7:35 AM PDT
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My "enhanced perception" post
was supposed to be an answer to Fairweather’s claim about the steroid era , but when a direct reply appears 20 posts down it loses something…and I was wondering why it didn’t stick…so I was fooling around , as is my wont.
Aaron "Swag" Rowand
by victor frankenstein on
May 2, 2008 8:32 AM PDT
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Who could have guessed that a waiver-wire acquisition like Jose Castillo would be the best hitter and defender on the Giants? It looks like we’ve got a third baseman for years to come.
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on
May 1, 2008 11:12 AM PDT
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What's your favorite Punic War?
Hey, remember the battle of Cannae?
Man, that was awesome.
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on
May 1, 2008 11:34 AM PDT
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Cannae?
Wasn’t that the one where Julius Francus first made a name for himself?
2008: My previous assessment may have been overly optimistic.
by EliminateMe on
May 1, 2008 11:43 AM PDT
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If he did, it was by losing.
The Romans got slaughtered.
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on
May 1, 2008 11:50 AM PDT
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Too far a reach?
I was going for yet another “Julio Franco is really old” joke.
2008: My previous assessment may have been overly optimistic.
by EliminateMe on
May 1, 2008 12:17 PM PDT
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I should have gotten that.
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on
May 1, 2008 12:27 PM PDT
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Time for the Noodle Dance!!!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
May 1, 2008 1:12 PM PDT
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When did you see my brain?
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on
May 1, 2008 3:28 PM PDT
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No you didn't!!!1!
I’ve cleverly foiled you by having no life! Eat it, Natto!
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on
May 1, 2008 5:02 PM PDT
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It's okay
I saw yours too.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
May 1, 2008 5:55 PM PDT
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Oh, get a skull, you two.
2008: My previous assessment may have been overly optimistic.
by EliminateMe on
May 1, 2008 10:40 PM PDT
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I'll get a skull!
I’ll get a freaking gold-titanium alloy skull with glowing eyes!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
May 1, 2008 11:04 PM PDT
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Oh man
I hope you preordered. Otherwise you’re going to have to camp out for the midnight release.
by Natto on
May 2, 2008 12:24 AM PDT
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Midnight release?
I saw an 8:00pm sneak preview! Since San Rafael is all old people, there wasn’t even a rush for the tickets.
When I told my grandma I was seeing Iron Man, she asked me if it had anything to do with the marathon.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
May 2, 2008 12:30 AM PDT
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You're confusing him with Bigguth Dickuth
Need to catch up on your history of the world.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 1, 2008 12:35 PM PDT
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He has a wife, you know
Her name is… Incontinentia Buttocks
Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.
by delorean on
May 1, 2008 1:25 PM PDT
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"Wewease Zitow"
Aaron "Swag" Rowand
by victor frankenstein on
May 2, 2008 8:34 AM PDT
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Weren’t his parents the first to make a name for himself?
2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!
by Goofus on
May 1, 2008 12:40 PM PDT
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As the next few years go by
Barry Zito’s performance this year will be elevated from the current “bright spot in the othewise miserable rotation” to legendary status reserved for the greatest names like Nolan Ryan, Cy Young, and Sandy Kofax.
If any of the other starters from this years misfits get mention in the history books at all, it will be simply to put Zito’s performance in perspective.
Bases loaded, one out and ${VETERAN_GIANT} hits a $#^&*@# grounder to 2nd!!!!
by toofruss on
May 1, 2008 11:26 AM PDT
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"Bright spot"?
In the rotation?
Have you been away , or asleep for the past two years?
Aaron "Swag" Rowand
by victor frankenstein on
May 2, 2008 8:37 AM PDT
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There’s no such thing as “clutch”, and if there was Benjie has not been a good example of it.
2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!
by Goofus on
May 1, 2008 12:25 PM PDT
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Yeah
Benji Mo-leaning on everyone else.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on
May 1, 2008 12:37 PM PDT
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Mere players
The really outstanding job here is that of brilliant strategist Brian Sabean, about whom not enough good things have been said. Remember how few meaningless games this team has played this decade? Why doesn’t anybody ever talk about that?
And it isn’t just the day-to-day determination and grittiness that defines Brian Sabean – it’s also his carefully crafted long-range planning. When you look up “visionary” in the Wikipedia, there’s a picture of Brian Sabean front and center. Why? Sabean realized, years ago that, despite having the greatest hitter of the last quarter-century on his team, the day would eventually come when the torch would have to be passed to the next generation of great Giants players. Eschewing quick fixes, and loathe to merely throw money at the problem, Sabean devised a long-range plan so intricately detailed and complexly woven together that even other GM’s are at a loss to explain how he does it. With a deft blend of skillful drafting and shrewd player promotion, Sabean maximizes the talent at his disposal while keeping a cautious eye on the bottom line. And his ability to find just the right manager to lead the teams he assembles is almost indescribable. “Genius” just doesn’t describe Brian Sabean!
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
by Lyle on
May 1, 2008 12:46 PM PDT
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"Genius" just doesn’t describe Brian Sabean!
Man, you got that right!
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on
May 1, 2008 3:29 PM PDT
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When you look up "visionary" in the Wikipedia, there’s a picture of Brian Sabean front and center. Why? Sabean realized…
you can edit Wikipedia entries yourself
"Candlestick made me a man." - Will Clark
by MeSoKrabby on
May 1, 2008 2:44 PM PDT
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Fred Lewis:
way better than Barry Bonds!!
Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.
by delorean on
May 1, 2008 3:15 PM PDT
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who?
Make me proud again Hen
by AndYourBirdCanSing on
May 1, 2008 3:34 PM PDT
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Hey everybody
Iron Man is great. Calling it great is being sarcastic because great is actually bad compared to what this movie is.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on
May 1, 2008 11:53 PM PDT
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God I love Robert Downey JR.
I have since Air America way back in the day…I’m so happy to see him doing well.
Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.
by Andy from DC on
May 2, 2008 9:56 AM PDT
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Derrick Turnbow
Whilst on the subject of bullpen’s, Derrick Turnbow was DFA’d today, worth a waiver claim or not? His results have been disappointing recently but his peripherals have been decent. Our bullpen has been doing well, i guess the option would be to send Yabu or Hennessey down & claim Turnbow.
Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Coming soon to a bullpen near you!
by GiantFan on
May 2, 2008 8:06 AM PDT
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NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
I don not believe now is the proper time to place a waiver claim on Derrick Turnbow.
by tyrannoman on
May 2, 2008 12:27 PM PDT
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