Timpner and Schierholtz
by kennv on Apr 9, 2008 7:54 AM PDT
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PrintSo the Giants send Roberts to the DL and call up... Clay Timpner. Not nasty Nate? Warum?
Since, I just looked at the stats on baseballreference.com here some are:
Timpner career minors: .283/328/379/707. Turns 25 in May, bats/throws left.
After 60 Games in Fresno in 06, in 07 he pulled a: .301/363/395/758.
After some good steals/cs numbers in SJ, its been pretty dismal in AAA.
Schierholtz career minors: .306/352/505/857. 24 since February. Bats left, Throws right.
First year in Fresno (2007): 333/365/560/925.
So Nate is off to a slow start I guess. And Clay can play CF. So can Davis. So can a healed Winn. Oh and that bruised ribs guy. And wasn't Velez getting CF time last year. I'm pretty sure Aurilia can play a good CF. Is this just SF using its 40 man roster to reward a AAA that got skipped over in all the Lewis/Davis madness last year? His turn for a cup of coffee? Another display of the Giant's organizations depth of mediocrity in the OF? Hey lookie other teams, you can have a Taschner-model loogie and a [insert name here] AAAA OF for your AA blocked 3rd base prospect.
and if they're hurt, why not DL the lot of the old OF (Roberts AND Winn (ankles right?) AND Aaron "Chest-Pains" Rowand). Lewis, Davis, Schierholtz, Backups Ort, and Velez.ner
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whoops i hit enter and the thing posted.
i apologize for any typos or anything. It went before i proof read it. I was trying to add a "Clay Timpner" tag, hit enter and it posted the thing. It may be why there is a random "ner" at the end of that last sentence.
Also excited about Bret Harper?
http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=6243
Adopted papa of a bouncing new waiver wire 27 year old. Castillo hits doubles.
so you can. got rid of the "ner" ending.
Adopted papa of a bouncing new waiver wire 27 year old. Castillo hits doubles.
aww
that was my favorite part.
I sure wish that Ort Cloud would form a solid sphere to enter into this team's orbit.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Apr 9, 2008 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with the move
As much as it's easy to criticize the management, i think this was the right call. Schierholtz seems to be injured at the moment & it wouldn't make sense to call him up to sit on the bench, much better for him to get regular at bats at Fresno when he returns.
I doubt Timpner will play much, they've got 4 players to replace Roberts in Lewis, Davis, Velez & Ortmeier & so there's not really any playing time.
Proud owner of the most boring Username!
When I heard it was Timpner and not Schierholtz I briefly went to WTFistan but yeah, you're right. It doesn't make sense to call up Nate to make spot appearances when there are lots of other OF who will play ahead of him. Clay is less important to the future than Nate, IMO.
Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 9, 2008 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I have a feeling
"WTFistan" will be one of the top destinations for Giants fans this year :-)
My adopted son Matt Downs. Bill Mueller without the two-flap helmet .
I was ready to buy a house in WTFistan after that horrid double play Winn hit into last night.
Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 9, 2008 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
That had to be one of the top 5 weirdest double play's ever. Winn actually does his job, hits the ball to the right side of the IF, then one of the fastest guys in baseball gets thrown out at third? Bizarre.
Forreal. We can't even blame it on team ineptitude. It was just plain weird.
Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 9, 2008 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I chalk it up to...
Barry's Revenge.
When you kick to the curb the guy who was basically the best ever at NOT MAKING OUTS, his curse is that you will find every and all possible ways to hit, run, and generally flop into as many extra outs as supernaturally possible.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
I agree...
That was actually well played by the giants.
Unfortunately, it was even weller played by Adrian gonzolez. And the Baseball Gods.
Snakebit to say the least... There were 2-3 of those occasions last night where 9 times out of 10, the result would have been vastly different, and much in favor of the Giants.
Maybe last nights win can break them out of that crap.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Apr 9, 2008 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
The previous day, too
W/ Maddux acting as the 5th infielder snagging anything hit up the middle.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Apr 9, 2008 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed about Nate, but I wonder why they feel compelled to replace the injured guy with whoever is most like him. It's so lazy and unimaginative. This team has loads of pinch-hitting opportunities, so bringing in an offense-first player like McClain or Leone would be much more valuable tactically than yet another singles-hitting glove man.
hmm, mcclain
yer right, Evan, McClain woulda been smarter. Might have power. Aurilia needs more time off and he isnt hitting anyway. Ort can take more outfield starts, and has even played some CF.
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
McClain or Leone would have to be put on the 40-man...
...which they probably didn't want to do for a short term move.
But why Timpner over Bowker? At least Bowker has some power...
2008: My previous assessment may have been overly optimistic.
Except that...
...Schierholtz is a top prospect who's seen a little bit of major league pitching, knows what he's up against, and has been told what he needs to work on. I agree there's no reason to mess with that, let him play consistently in Fresno.
Bowker is a mid-level prospect who could break out with another big season, but I don't see the need to handle him as carefully as Schierholtz. Seems like he might benefit from seeing a few major league ABs. The same could be said for Timpner, but again - at least Bowker has some pop; the last thing this team needs is another slappy speedster.
2008: My previous assessment may have been overly optimistic.
Bowker
This is Bowker's first season at AAA, and he needs regular at-bats to prove that last year was for real, in which case he's like Schierholtz in that he's a real prospect, wheras Timpner is more of a borderline player.
Proud owner of the most boring Username!
True. But one of them should be on the 40-man for just this reason.
Isn't Ishikawa still on the 40-man?
Yes, he is...
...and apparently Frandsen is still on the 15-day rather than the 60-day DL. Moving him to the 60-day would allow them to add someone to the 40-man without taking anyone off.
2008: My previous assessment may have been overly optimistic.
but then
the arbitration clock starts on whoever is put on the 40 man roster. A little bit of a balanceing act. I would like to see T-Ish at least moved to AAA where it can been seen if he can hit. Dodd surpreses numbers so much it may derail whatever chance he has left of being a descent player.
True
They could have been more imaginative & called up someone like McClain or Leone to pinch hit, or even another bullpen arm, but i'd guess that they wanted the extra outfielder due to the fact that Winn & Rowand have been injured.
Proud owner of the most boring Username!
To the best of my knowledge,
Nate has a minor injury. Reports I've gotten say he pulled up lame in a pinch hit double he hit on Friday.
He hasn't played since.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
Basically agree with some above comments
If Nate is hurting it's not a good idea to begin with to pull him up here, but even if he was healthy I'd rather have him getting 4ABs a day in fresno than 1AB every 4 days in SF until Roberts comes back.
Not that the choice to call up Timpner of all people isn't still questionable, just that it's still probably better than screwing Nate out of ABs.
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!
Nate v. Timpner
It's a good call all around. An org soldier gets his cup of coffee. Nate gets his AB's (once healthy) so he can keep practicing working the count. I think Leone and McClain already had their cups so it's a little better with Clay.
It's important to remember that nothing is going to change the fact that the Giants are going to suck balls this year. So getting an extra run here or there isn't really that important.
i wasn't upset about the run here or there, or the win-lose record. But about Nate getting major league time. (with two assumptions i made when i wrote the diary: Nate wasn't hurt (seems that he is), and he would start in RF while Roberts was DLed.)
Adopted papa of a bouncing new waiver wire 27 year old. Castillo hits doubles.
Yup.
Schierholtz has a chance of becoming a useful player. Guys like Timpner, McClain, Leone are minor league journeymen. Roberts is 36 years old, and was never all that good in the first place.
Schierholtz needs to get his ABs...in MLB. Every MLB at bat that a healthy Nate Schierholtz is not getting, that is instead being given to guys like Dave Roberts, is a wasted at bat.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
as Evan points out below, Timpner may be more than a minor league journeyman. he is still young, and has shown he can get on-base and play defense - he could have a role as a lefty half of a platoon or 4-5th outfielder. but the giants already have a bunch of backups displaying their skills. i would just would have rather seen a 500 SLG prospect get the call up and bat in 5-7 for our XBH deficient club, Benji and Castillo excepting.
Adopted papa of a bouncing new waiver wire 27 year old. Castillo hits doubles.
I agree about Roberts et al, but three reasons to keep Nate down a while longer:
1. On the basis of his k/w numbers from last year, he's still got some things to learn in AAA.
2. There are other youngish outfielders (Lewis, Davis, Velez, Ortmeier) to sort through at the major-league level.
3. The service clock. I think this is a bigger issue with someone like Schierholtz than with the likes of Longoria or Bruce. With the latter, you're hoping they develop into superstars and you keep them in the organization till they're 40. With Schierholtz, you're hoping he develops into a solid, above-average corner outfielder, but there's little chance of superstardom, so you're probably going to want to let him walk after his six years are up. So you want that point to be as late as possible.
The question is how much he can learn
if he puts up another 900 OPS. And whether he can learn more by facing actual MLB pitching.
Lewis, Davis and Roberts, do need MLB at bats too, yes, but it isn't as if they are getting time. Roberts and Aurilia was getting time that should have gone to them.
As for Velez, if he has to play a corner, his value is what? A 5th outfielder?. If he has to play a corner, you might as well just send him down to the minors now.
Also, IMO, none of them are really good enough prospects to have earned much leeway. None of them are a Bruce, an Adam Jones, or even a Milledge or a Chris Young. The guy with the best results, and the guy who has the best chance of turning into a starter, Schierholtz, should get first dibs.
I kinda agree on the service clock issue, but IMO, player development is more important than screwing around with service time. I'm not convinced that another season in AAA, after Schierholtz hit well in AAA in 2007, will benefit him all that much.
Bruce isn't really in the same boat as Longoria. He is still only 21, with little experience in AAA. It's also debatable whether he is really a CF, or more of guy who can play CF, but really should be in a corner, where the Reds have Dunn and Griffey.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
As mentioned, i think it's unfair to call Timpner a journeyman, his ceiling may be low & he may be low on the depth chart due to our plethora of outfielders, but he's a useful player in general.
With Schierholtz, of course getting him MLB at bats in preferable. Ultimately though, at the stage he's at, it's a case of 4 AAA at-bats is better for his development than 1 MLB at bat. Unless he's going to be guaranteed regular at-bats i'd rather have him get them at Fresno. IMO it's better to have both Lewis & Schierholtz being regulars than to have them both playing part time!
Proud owner of the most boring Username!
I object to this thinking. It's true that there's no way to turn this into a good team, and player development must be the paramount goal this season, but within that context I want the Giants kicking and clawing for every advantage.
Also, it's too soon to be talking about getting Timpner his token cup of coffee to tell the grandkids about. I still think he has a future. At worst, as an outstanding outfielder who hits lefty and can get on base a little bit, he's a useful fifth outfielder for most any team.
Question,
is Timpner a real CF? Ie he projects as at least average defensively in CF over his career?
If he is a real CF, how good is he? 0-5 runs? 5-10 runs? 10-15 runs? 15-20 runs?
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
here's a question though (and basis for this diary before hearing about Nate's injury), with Roberts out, Nate could be given everyday at bats (like last September) and start over Lewis and Davis. why call up a OF that will be seventh maybe sixth on the depth chart anyways (Rowand, Winn, Lewis, Davis, Ort, (Velez) then Timpner)?
Adopted papa of a bouncing new waiver wire 27 year old. Castillo hits doubles.
Lewis
You could, but then Lewis would be wasting on the bench. Winn & Rowand are going to be starting all the time, so there's only one spot with Roberts injured. It's better to have Schierholtz & Lewis both starting & getting regular at-bats than it is for only one & the other getting none.
Proud owner of the most boring Username!
I'm just glad...
That we did this instead of picking up some 35 + FA.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
it appears as though Timpner got promoted because management wouldn't shell out for a tank of gas for Nate's chevy tahoe. can't really blame magowan on this one, them bitches are gas guzzlers
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
So then Clay drove up in a Prius?
Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 9, 2008 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions
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