Why isn't Velez leading off?????
by Mordy From Monsey on Apr 8, 2008 4:43 AM PDT
44 comments
Why in heavens name does Bochy bat Velez 2nd in the lineup when the impotent Roberts is playing? I mean shouldnt logic dictate that the fastest guy in our lineup bat leadoff? Ok...We all know Bochy is braindead, but c'mon man...Velez is the most exciting position player on our team right now(Durhammy and Aurilia aside of course...). Maximize his use!!! There is no reason why Velez should only have 1 SB to date....
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
0 recs |
44 comments
Email
Print
Comments
I agree, but can also see the logic behind him not leading off on this anemic offense. He's one of the few Giants that's been able to XBHs, so you'd like for him to do that with someone on.
2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!
by Goofus on Apr 8, 2008 5:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
studies showed that the most productive hypothetical batting orders for the Giants in years past would have involved Bonds leading off. They also showed that batting order was mostly irrelevant to production, so it probably doesn't matter, but getting more at-bats for the guy hitting all the doubles offsets the effect of sometimes not having somebody on base in front of him. Not that it's going to be a problem for this team either way.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Apr 8, 2008 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slightly off-topic
But I hope sometime this year I get to see Velez hit a ball in the gap with Molina on first, that would be hilarious.
http://www.baycityball.com
by xanthan on Apr 8, 2008 5:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yay!
You made me laugh (and not bitterly) when thinking about this team. My profuse and humble thanks. You are a scholar and a gentleman.
I got one word for you: "youneverknow"
by senorvegas on Apr 8, 2008 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be like a bottleneck on the I-880 with Bengie being a 1989 Dodge Caravan and Eugenio being a 2008 Lotus Elise Exige.
Idolizing the Nuschler Face since April 8, 1986 / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Apr 8, 2008 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yesterday, Velez' tripple would have only been a double because there would be now way Bengie would have scored. Remember when Bengie didn't score from 2nd on a Rajai double?
by Azmanz on Apr 8, 2008 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw
I saw such a play at Candlestick in the 60's. Manny Mota hit a gapper with Ed Bailey (about whom it was joked that he was timed to first base with a calendar) at first base. Manny would have had a triple, but the Giants' third base coach held Bailey at third, and Mota was retired trying to get back to second.
by sharksrog on Apr 8, 2008 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
weell
If Durham is the cleanup hitter, or Molina, etc., unless he starts stealing 3rd and home once in a while (and maybe this offense should start considering that), it's not gonna matter much.
Maybe what you mean is: isn't a Lewis/Davis platoon better to lead off?
Or, isn't Carney Lansford batting 2nd better than what is being run out now?
by natteringnabob on Apr 8, 2008 5:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Velez OBP
Velez's minor league results are a good predictor of low
ML OBP. He doesn't walk, and isn't likley to chnage his behavior . Lewis/ Davis at leadoff makes more sense.
by koel on Apr 8, 2008 6:04 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Good point
Eugenio will likely turn out to be an eighth-place hitter. He isn't likely to get on base much, and aside from 14 homers in 2006 when he was overage at Augusta, he hasn't reached double figures in his five other minor league seasons.
I don't just mean that he hasn't hit 10 or more homers in any other single season. I mean that he has hit a TOTAL of nine homers in his five other seasons.
by sharksrog on Apr 8, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that with his SLG
He is a good candidate for 3rd in this lineup. He seems to have a knack for hitting 3b's.
Like, basically any time the ball goes past the outfielder, automatic triple.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Apr 8, 2008 7:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And we know he has some pop as well...
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Apr 8, 2008 7:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got a good laugh
I got a really good laugh out of that one, Fan. Eugenio is my favorite position player on the Giants, but even on the Giants he isn't a true #3 hitter.
by sharksrog on Apr 8, 2008 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As compared to what other option?
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Apr 8, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
Rowand would be a good #3 hitter on a good team. On this team, Winn probably fits the role best as Rowand fits the #4 hole best.
Velez should be a #2 hitter, or else back of the lineup.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Apr 8, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everythign is relative
On this team. I guess it's really hard to say anything productive.
I just like him...
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Apr 8, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rowand would be a good #3 hitter on a good bad team.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Apr 8, 2008 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
1. Because it doesn't matter.
2. One SB is par on a team that plays station to station ball.
3. Bochy is an idiot
by E Ticket on Apr 8, 2008 7:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You nailed it
You nailed it when you said that it doesn't matter. Nothing the Giants do this season is going to make them even an average offensive team.
I like the idea of their trying to take the extra base more often. Players overall get thrown out about three times as often trying to steal as they do trying to take the extra base on another player's hit.
by sharksrog on Apr 8, 2008 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It might have something to do with the fact that Velez has a Minor League career OBP of .338 and that he swings at some pretty bad pitches.
Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?
by Anticon23 on Apr 8, 2008 7:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
True
Though Dave Roberts major league career OBP of .341 isn't significantly better. Eugenio did post a .373 OBP in his first year playing regularly and a .344 in in the notorious EL in his first season above Low A. There does seem to be some hope for growth.
My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.
by Roger on Apr 8, 2008 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep on hopin'!
Keep on hopin', Rog. I'm hoping too -- but I am afraid that it is only hope, not likely reality.
by sharksrog on Apr 8, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't matter where he hits on this team. What does matter is that he's getting played all over the field as a rookie, rather than being allowed to settle into a single position at the major league level. Getting him more ABs is very very good -- giving him a lot of reps on defense is good too.
No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
by Skaldheim on Apr 8, 2008 7:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Kamasutra Velez
He's learning to be savvy in many positions
by E Ticket on Apr 8, 2008 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i've heard lots of people theorize about this
("this" meaning playing all over the field) and it's been discussed among the McCoven before, but I can't recall anyone making a compelling case that playing all over the field affects hitters at the plate.
New fanpost for this discussion, perhaps?
Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.
by delorean on Apr 8, 2008 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's a player by player situation. Remember how Pedro Gurrero just could't hit when he got moved to third base? It would've been sad if he weren't a So-Cal loving water theif. Chone Figgens, on the other hand, seems to thrive in that role. If Velez can play 2B, 3B, LF and RF it sure makes it a lot easier to build a lineup with him in it.
by tyrannoman on Apr 8, 2008 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It also makes him better on my Fantasy team
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Apr 8, 2008 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but if he can play third (albeit with warts/growing pains), and if sticking to one position will help him settle in all aspects of the game, then why is Eugenio not the starting 3rd baseman with Jose Castillo relegated to Velez' superutility role?
Even if he's average/below-average defensively, are those disadvantages worth the benefits of having Velez arguably be more comfortable at the plate, learn the intricacies of third at a faster rate, limit Jose Castillo to a bench role, and force Bochy to use an ACTUAL outfielder rather than a utilityman.
by ExcuseMeSwing on Apr 8, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not worried about it affecting his hitting, but I do worry about it affecting his fielding. Our defense has been pretty terrible so far.
No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
by Skaldheim on Apr 8, 2008 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True that
Eugenio's future is likely as a utilityman, at least on a good team. So the more positions he can play (and he has played six of them), the better. Personally I would have started him at shortstop every game and saved an option on Brian Bocock.
by sharksrog on Apr 8, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Eugene, and want to see him start at 2B, but it would be even harder to watch this team with Velez at SS. Ugh.
by tyrannoman on Apr 9, 2008 7:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At work, we'd like to see...
someone put a chicken on third base and have Velez go run after it. That would make this team more watchable. Of course, if he caught it, he would have to give it to Bengie.
by mlb22 on Apr 8, 2008 10:56 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Velez is going to be bringing some comparisons to Pedro Feliz in terms of his plate discipline by June, if Velez is still playing nearly every day.
That's why.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Apr 8, 2008 12:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That's why.
Yeah, but Velez hits triples! Exciting! Speed! Triples!
http://www.baycityball.com
by xanthan on Apr 8, 2008 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point!
Good point, Brute. I hate that we are limited by reality with the exciting Eugenio, but we almost certainly are.
by sharksrog on Apr 8, 2008 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing that amazes me is the notion that doing anything to change the batting order of this turd of a lineup might do anything. Will we go from 50 to 55 wins with Velez at the top?
Don't get me wrong, I think there's a lot of common sense to be used when constructing a lineup. For example, Aaron Rowand has shown up as our best hitter so far. I'd think that he should probably hit higher in the lineup than 6th. But flipping Velez and Roberts probably isn't going to generate a lot more runs. I'd like to see Velez get on base at a higher clip before making that judgment.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Apr 8, 2008 12:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn't be a problem
I think the Giants will win at least 50 to 55 games no matter WHO leads off.
by sharksrog on Apr 8, 2008 1:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The job of lead-off hitter is to get on base. Speed is a luxury that Velez has. I can't see Velez finishing a full season with even an average OBP, but if he can come close and develop a little power, maybe we'll have a solid, speedy utility infielder that can't play defense. Save the table setting lineup positions for players that can actually set the table.
Bengie Molina: stretching doubles into singles since 1998.
by jasomack on Apr 8, 2008 1:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It seems tio me the best use of his speed is at #2. Then if the leadoff hitter makes out, he is, in effect, the second leadoff hitter. However, if the LO hitter gets on, Velez is the least likely to produce a Giants specialty, the GIDP. So, we still have a runner on, and he should SB his way to second, which keeps the GIDP #s of our # 3 hitter down. (Hell, under this scenario, Aurilia should hit 3d, so he would simply be the 2nd out and not the very Aurilia-esque, inning ending GIDP).
In otherwords, it is brilliant, very Giants specific strategy; it optimizes the liklihood of Velez getting on and getting into scoring position, and maximizes the advantages of our team propensity of hitting double play grounders (ie, we could hit 2 in an inning and still not be out of the inning.
by allfrank on Apr 8, 2008 1:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"shouldnt logic dictate that the fastest guy in our lineup bat leadoff?"
In a word, no.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar
by JakeS on Apr 8, 2008 1:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"Shouldn't logic dictate anything bruce bochy does?"
of course not!
I don't know if Velez should be leadoff or not, but I do agree that it doesn't matter.
Let's bat the Pitcher 1st.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Apr 8, 2008 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey,
Timmy was hitting 1.000 going into last night!!!
by tyrannoman on Apr 9, 2008 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
