All-Star Love for Lewis
Frederick Deshaun Lewis. LF - SF Giants. 2008 All-Star.
There, I said it. And it's not as far-fetched as it might sound.
Since going 2-for-16 in 9 games to open the season (just 3 starts) Lewis has really turned it on. Beginning April 10 he's turned in this line:
26-for-68, 8 doubles, 2 triples, 2 HR, 8 BB, .382/.447/.647/1.094
Those 17 games encompass 16 starts, just 3 hitless games and only one without reaching base. It seems he reaching a level of productivity and consistency some people believed he had the potential for.
While pre-season sensibilities would have said the Gaints would claim only one All-Star spot this year and it would almost certainly go to a starting pitcher, left field in the NL this year has so far been a largely unproductive position.
By all rights the NL starter should be the Phillies Pat Burrell, both for dominating most statistical categories for the league this year as well as his contributions last season. But then there's a pretty obvious drop-off to Josh Willingham (6 HR, .637 SLG, .406 OBP to Lewis's 2, .548, .411) and Matt Holliday is still in the mix statistically and has some good exposure from the Rockies playoff run last year.
No other NL LF has an OPS over .865 so it's essentially a 3 horse race at this point to fill the slot as a backup to Burrell.
Just sayin'. Could happen. But even if it doesn't happen this year, Lewis should have more than a few chances to play in the mid-summer classic in coming years now that he's starting to prove he's not just a worth major league player but a definite star in the making.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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87 comments
Comments
It is still April and Freddie (even though he’s my favorite position player on the Giants) probably isn’t actually as good as he’s playing right now.
But if he can keep it up through July, he’d definitely deserve a spot! He’s not just hitting well for Freddie Lewis at the moment, he’s hitting well for anyone.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Apr 28, 2008 9:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Somehow
J. J. Hardy comes to mind.
It’s a bad comparison in a lot of ways, but it comes to mind.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 28, 2008 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he’s a good example of why not to get too excited about April performance.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Apr 28, 2008 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the other hand...
... Jeff Kent was just Mr. April until he became a Giant.
Also, aren’t players elected as general OF’s and not by specific position?
by achiappanza on Apr 28, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fred 2008: YES WE CAN
I was talking about this very subject with my ex last night. He pitched Tim as the lone Giants All Star this year, while I proposed Fred. We both agreed Bengie might go, and I say Brian Wilson could also be in the mix. All four won’t go, no way. But there are your candidates for the game.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 28, 2008 9:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't talk to ex's, trust me.
Never a good idea.
Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.
by Andy from DC on Apr 28, 2008 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, we’re really cool, this guy and me. We managed to remain good friends. It does get a little dicey when he pretends like he knows more about baseball than I do, though.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 28, 2008 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bengie?
Too many good young catchers in the NL at the moment: Martin, McCann, Geovany Soto, Ryan Doumit.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Apr 28, 2008 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But none of them are CLUTCH!
And that’s what the NL squad has been missing for years!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 28, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn right!
No seriously. In a world where Tony Womack and Mark Redman can be all stars, I’ve accepted that anything can happen.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 28, 2008 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps,
Cant’ remember about the circumstances of Womack, though he did have a shiny 60 SBs in his AS year. But, All Star Mark Redman made the team because of the every team has an AS rule.
Bengie isn’t going to get there due to that rule. Martin and McCann are reigning ASs at catcher for the NL, both having great years. Doumit is having a sensational year to date on a bad team that likes any real star calibre players. He could end up being the Pirates lone AS. Soto is having a sensational year on a very good team that is often in the national spotlight. It will be difficult for Bengie to beat them out.
And sure, Doumit, Soto, McCann, Martin are all performing above their heads to a certain extent, but so is Bengie.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Apr 28, 2008 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Womack also made the team because no other Pirate was worthy
It was 97 and he kept Kent out of the game, so I remember it well.
Only 946 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Apr 28, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You just made Matt Cain cry.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Apr 28, 2008 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weird
I thought Matt Cain didn’t cry….
Except for The Notebook, of course.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Apr 28, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No salsa no cry
That was just the onions he was slicing up prior to the movie for salsa, to snack on while watching the movie.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 28, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our players won’t get props around the league because we won’t be contenders. We will certainly get embarrassed in the fan voting, that’s for sure. I think Tim will be the only all star, but if any daily player gets picked for the team it will be Bengie Molina. I love Freddie Lewis though, and I think he might be an all star a year or two from now. By the way, fuck you rotoworld for saying yesterday that he “still projects as a fourth outfielder.” On what team, Rotoworld?? The 1927 Yankees??
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Apr 28, 2008 9:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
PECOTA's .262/.343/.408 line and can play all 3 OF positions
screams 4th OF to me.
by iamawesomer on Apr 28, 2008 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you talking about his predicted line before the 08 season? Because it seems stupid to say that he projects as a fourth outfielder because of what some prediction system said a few months ago about his projected stats for the upcoming season.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Apr 29, 2008 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Freddie
Freddie has hit great this season. But he has a career .282 battting average IN THE MINORS and likely won’t come within 15 points of that figure with his major league career batting average.
If it is stupid to say that Freddie projects as a fourth outfielder, then I’ll second the stupid statement. We saw again tonight that Freddie isn’t an instinctive ballplayer. And at 27 years of age, he’s no longer a kid.
The Giants thought so much tonight of their All-Star first, second or third outfielder that they pinch hit for him with the game on the line.
by sharksrog on Apr 29, 2008 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying he doesn’t project as a fourth outfielder necessarily. I’m just saying I wouldn’t base that on a projection before the season. Those stats didn’t actually happen – it was just a prediction. I know they were based on his past stats, but I still don’t think it means that much.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Apr 30, 2008 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, the bother of actually watching a game is just too much.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 28, 2008 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep, and nobody ever improves in baseball. If you’re talking about 35 year olds it’s one thing, but the idea that a young player will always be the same player he was throughout his minor league and short major league career is downright silly. He’s got speed, power and doesn’t swing at bad pitches. All the tools for stardom.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Apr 28, 2008 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
couldn’t agree more. He’s been a pleasure to watch. I love the fact he’s not trying to hit HR’s, and always seems to work the count to 2-2 or 3-2. Eventually, he’ll move down the lineup but for now he’s a treat in the leadoff spot.
That said, Timmy is going to be the only All Star for the Giants.
by tyrannoman on Apr 28, 2008 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
Timmy is our leading all-star candidate.
Plus, there’s always plenty of OFs with All-Star stats that don’t go and Lewis isn’t going to have the RBI or homers that the selectors like.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 28, 2008 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 28, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, you can mock the projections but please at least wait until they have been shown to be wrong for more than a month.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on Apr 28, 2008 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's also got a .413 BABIP and a 15.4 LD%
All the tools for huge regression to the mean in BA, OBP and SLG.
by iamawesomer on Apr 28, 2008 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ouch
So his BABIP should be like 140 points lower?
Damn.
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on Apr 28, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not a hard and fast rule.
Players who can hit the ball hard, or who are very fast will have higher than “expected” BABIPs, generally.
Though obviously that 413 BABIP is going to drop. His on contact numbers in 2007, that is what happens when he manages to touch the balls, a proxy for how hard he is hitting the balls, are really high: on contact BA 430, on contact SLG 707.
For comparison, BLB throughout career, OC BA 353, OC SLG 719
BLB, from 2001-2004, OC BA 408 OC SLG 947.
It’s possible, but unlikely that Lewis keeps up his current numbers.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Apr 28, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's kind of silly
to compare BLB to freddie loo.
It’s like trying to compare pedro or randy johnson to any other pitcher.
Just a bad idea.
BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Apr 28, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm using BLB's numbers
to provide some context for Fred’s numbers.
Basically, what I’m saying is that in 2007, Fred Lewis is hitting the ball VERY hard, as hard some some of the hardest hitters in MLB history. If you don’t like the Bonds comparison, here are some on contact numbers for some other hard hitters:
Ryan Howard, career: OC BA 439, OC SLG 920!!! King of oncontact hitting in MLB
Jack Cust in 2007, on contact BA: 437. on contact SLG: 861
Jim Thome, career OC BA 426, OC SLG 805
McGwire, career OC BA 354, OC SLG 793
Canseco, career OC BA 367, OC SLG 710
All numbers through 2007.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Apr 28, 2008 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was going on the rule of thumb which is “take line drive percentage and add .120 to get expected BABIP.” This is a gross oversimplification of the actual BABIP formula by the way, but it is used to calculate approximately what it should be.
So, .154 + .120 = .274
I don’t know how Bonds fits into that, but as a great hitter he did hit a lot of line drives, so I’d expect a high batting average.
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on Apr 28, 2008 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I knew that you were using that formula
What I’m saying is that that “rule of thumb” is just a rule of thumb.
For Bonds, I wasn’t referring to his BABIP. I was referring to his on contact numbers, that is, what happens when a hitter manages to get his bat on the ball. Lewis’ on contact numbers in 2007 are as good as Bonds’ over Bonds’ career. It’s unlikely that Lewis is actually as good as that.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Apr 28, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This entire conversation is actually about Lewis’ 2008, correct?
I was THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME (for 3 days in 1995).
by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Apr 28, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, sorry.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Apr 28, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mostly agree with you. While I’m no expert, I don’t see why there should be a BABIP that applies to all players. If one guy hits tons of line drives every year, he should have a high BABIP. Some players just hit the ball solidly more.
I remember one member of this site a while back using some kind of “solid hits” percentage in a post (I forget the exact name). If anybody knows what this is, I would like to know, since it seems like a more helpful stat.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Apr 29, 2008 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BABIP too high?
The average line drive rate for a major league player is 19%, and the average BABIP is .300. Freddie has hit only 15.4% line drives this season. To put that in perspective, that is the same precise line drive percentage Tim Lincecum yielded last season. Tim’s 15.4% was one of the lowest line drive rates in baseball.
I realize it is a bit counter-intuitive, but most hitters and pitchers are fairly close to the average .300 BABIP figures. The best hitters usually get there either by hitting lots of balls out of the yard (where they are out of play and not subject to being turned into outs) and/or don’t strike out much for their power level. The best pitchers usually strike out lots of batters, allowing fewer balls to be put into play and thus to be turned into hits.
If Freddie is to come anywhere near his present average by season’s end, it will likely have to do at least as much with cutting down his high strikeout rate and hitting more home runs than with maintaining his unsustainable BABIP of .413.
.413. That’s about 75 points higher than Tony Gwynn’s career BABIP. Does Freddie look to YOU like a hitter who is 75 points better than Tony?
Now, keep in mind that I hope that Freddie can keep it up. I would LOVE for that to happen. And it isn’t impossible. It’s just highly unlikely. If he kept up his .413 BABIP, Freddie would be treading in unfound territory.
by sharksrog on Apr 29, 2008 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t saying there should be a BABIP that applies to all players at all. I was saying that the formula for determining whether a player is likely to regress says that Fred Lewis is likely to regress.
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on Apr 30, 2008 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m as big a Freddie fan as anyone, but as much as I’d like it to be true, he’s not really a 150 OPS+ bat. And he doesn’t really have the glove to be an every day CF, nor does he probably have the bat to be an every day corner outfielder.
Now, I’d love for him to be one of those players who well outperforms expectations, but I don’t think it’s at all unfair to be a bit skeptical until he shows that this is really a new level of production and not just a hot streak. If he ends up hitting like he did last year, for example, he’s definitely one of the best 4th OF in baseball, but it’s not really good enough to be an above-average corner outfielder.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Apr 28, 2008 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
On a good team
On a good team, Freddie Lewis still projects as a fourth outfielder. Notice that even on the Giants, he is being platooned tonight. When Dan Ortmeier platoons with you, you’re probably not an All-Star.
by sharksrog on Apr 28, 2008 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are probably correct.
But keep in mind this is Boulder Head making the choices of playing time here. Since Sabean thoughtfully supplied him with over 2400 innings of veteran outfield savvy ness I am not sure even Vegas has odds for Bochy making a different choice.
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
by daveinexile on Apr 30, 2008 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not exactly true
Lewis’ isn’t being platooned, he has a night off. There is a difference. He’s not sitting agains all (or even most) lefties (except last night).
by tyrannoman on Apr 30, 2008 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is the last time Lewis started against a lefty?
If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?
by groug on Apr 30, 2008 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do voters, and the managers actually
distinguish between the 2 corner spots?
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Apr 28, 2008 10:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nope. They’re all just outfielders.
by tyrannoman on Apr 28, 2008 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or in our case
all centerfielders
Once I adopted Tim Flannery. I've since left him outside a fire station.
by pme on Apr 28, 2008 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong, he’s simply filling the prima donna roll. Taking every 5th day off has become a Giants’ LF tradition. Get that man a barcalounger!
2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!
by Goofus on Apr 29, 2008 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
okie dokie folks, let's get a lil' bit real
Fred is fun to watch. he’s good at baseball and wields a good stick.
but let’s be honest. his line drive rate of 15.4% really doesn’t have the capacity to hold up his .413 BABIP. now his GB% should return to about 18% which is what he averages as far as I can tell. Unfortunately, that regression should go hand in hand with his 12.0% HR/F rate.
I really truly believe in my heart that Fred is a major league starter, despite his bad defense. I think he’s got a good bat and will definitely be a productive hitter. I do, however, think this season so far has been a bit of a fluke. I love me some Freddie Loo but if you think he can keep this kind of production up, I say you’re silly. Now, if he suddenly improves his LD% and sustains it then maybe i start buying into his all-star bid. Unfortunately, i’ll have to say, no, he won’t be an all star this year.
BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Apr 28, 2008 11:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You may be right about his LD% being fairly low, but his outstanding speed has to be good for a lot more infield hit, right? Might his BABIP be higher because of this? I mean, he’s hot right now and won’t stay that hot, but he seems to have all the tools to hit and hit well.
by tyrannoman on Apr 28, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not likely
Even as a lefthanded hitter, it isn’t likely that Freddie Lewis’ BABIP is likely to hold up at anything approaching .413. For starters, that is about 75 points higher than even Tony Gwynn, who was a much better hitter and had a little speed himself.
Let’s take a look at Freddie’s BABIP in the minors, remembering that players almost always see their BABIP come down in the majors due to better positioning, fielding and, yes, even pitchers.
Freddie’s .282 minor league average was built in great part on a .358 BABIP—which is far short of .413. And let’s see if we can come up with someone similar to Freddie who had a similar high BABIP in the minor leagues and see how that guy’s BABIP reacted to the majors.
I’m going to start out with Shane Victorino. I have no idea how he will compare, but he’s a fast lefty hitter with a modicum of power.
Shane batted the same .282 in the minors as did Freddie. But his .282 was based on a more realistic .317 BABIP. That has fallen to .302 in the majors through the end of last season.
Let’s say that Freddie’s .358 BABIP fell by the same 15 points as Shane’s did. It likely will fall by more, since .343 is a HUGE BABIP, but let’s just see how high Freddie would be batting if his BABIP this season were .343 instead of .413.
Instead of .333, Freddie would be batting .282. Now that’s not bad, but it’s not likely All-Star caliber. And that is giving Freddie as high an average as I can think would be at all reasonably possible. I personally think Freddie is about a .250 hitter. Maybe .260.
Let’s see who else we might come up with as a comp. Baseball Prospectus’ 2008 Handbook lists Pat Kelly (not Roberto, Freddie’s hitting coach) as a comp. Pat hit .335 on Balls In Play in the minors and .299 in the majors. Let’s see how much Freddie would be hitting with a similar 36-point drop.
That would put Freddie at .322 on Balls In Play. That’s a very high BABIP, one that Freddie is unlikely to exceed. This season if Freddie were hitting .322 on Balls In Play, he would be batting .265 this season.
I would be very surprised if Freddie is more than a .265 hitter in the long run—unless he can cut his strikeouts and increase his home runs, thereby improving his batting average on balls NOT in play.
I would LOVE to see Fast Freddie continue at his present .333 clip. But he doesn’t have anywhere near a 33.3% chance of doing so.
by sharksrog on Apr 28, 2008 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tony Blair says...

LA LA LA LA LA I’M NOT LISTENING!!!
2008: My previous assessment may have been overly optimistic.
by EliminateMe on Apr 28, 2008 11:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oops
Meant to be in reply to SloIsLonelyForTheOrange.
2008: My previous assessment may have been overly optimistic.
by EliminateMe on Apr 28, 2008 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how
am i supposed to argue with this?
FREDDIELOO FOR STARTING LF INT HE ALLSTARGAME!!! )* BABY!
BROCK BOND LIKES HIS MARTINIS PUNCHED IN THE FACE, NOT STIRRED.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Apr 28, 2008 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nah
just because he’s dramatically exceeded all our expectations for him doesn’t make him an all-star—just a really nice surprise. I’m happy with that.
Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.
by delorean on Apr 28, 2008 11:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think this deserves its own thread so...
Jonathan Sanchez, all star!!!!!!!!
Just you wait and see.
Only 946 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Apr 28, 2008 11:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is actually much more likely than Fred Lewis
and not nearly as fluky considering his luck stats (3.54 ERA vs 3.20 FIP). The K/9 has always been there and the bb/9 now may be at more acceptable level. I’ve always been a huge supporter of keeping him in the rotation and its finally paying dividends (and on my fantasy team as well).
by iamawesomer on Apr 28, 2008 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Likely
It seems highly likely that the Giants won’t be playing well enough to have more than the required single All-Star representative—and that the one representative will be Tim Lincecum. As has been pointed out here, Freddie Lewis, Bengie Molina, Aaron Rowand, Jonathan Sanchez and possibly even Matt Cain could be considered. But at this point, Lincecum looks like the likely one.
If Tim pitches another strong outing tomorrow night, he has a fine chance to be the NL pitcher of the month of April—although I believe last year’s Cy Young Award winner Jake Peavy is already 6-0 this season and would certainly be a viable candidate. Likewise with the guy who beat the Giants, whose numbers are startlingly similar to Tim’s right now. And the last time I looked, I had to admit I thought Ben Sheets had been the best.
But Tim is drawing comparisons to Steve Carlton in 1972, a year when Steve incredibly fashioned nearly half of the Phillies’ wins.
by sharksrog on Apr 28, 2008 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but that comparison isn't a very good one
Only 945 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Apr 29, 2008 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a highly appropriate one if Tim wins 24
and the Giants win 52
by Moggeee on Apr 29, 2008 1:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
April stats and the ASG
One thing this fanpost does successfully mock that the All-Star ballots start going out in May, and nobody takes into account the second half of the previous season.
In effect, baseball is saying “Go ahead, vote based on star power or April stats.”
by achiappanza on Apr 28, 2008 12:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Freddie will even be on the ballot.
::expects the Giants outfielders on the ballot to be Roberts, Rowand and Winn::
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Apr 28, 2008 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Write In Campaign !
My adopted son Matt Downs. Bill Mueller without the two-flap helmet .
by nvsfg on Apr 28, 2008 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the exception
With the exception of stats that are way out of whack with reputation, I tend to vote for the people I think are the best at each position. The present year’s stats play a part in that, but not to a very high degree barring the unusual.
by sharksrog on Apr 28, 2008 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Future #3
I don’t know if anyone else heard this, but Kruk said Carney Lansford thinks lewis is going to develop into a #3 hitter.
by G-Rob on Apr 28, 2008 1:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I did
and I kind of agree with it, assuming offensive numbers will be closer to those in the mid-80’s than they were in the late 90’s. A lot of 3 hole hitters then hit 10-20 HR’s, with a lot of doubles and Lewis seems like that kind of hitter to me. Especially with his plate disipline, he can get on. Dream lineup for next year:
Furcal
Velez
Lewis
Texeria
Rowand
Bowker/Schierholtz
Molina
Frandsen
by tyrannoman on Apr 28, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OM NOM NOM
Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.
by Andy from DC on Apr 28, 2008 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a lineup
That is just $$$ away, too. Who says the Giants can’t contened in 2009?
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Apr 28, 2008 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we are going to have a tough time getting Texeira over the Mets...
but then they didn’t blow $126 million on Zito….
by I own a Kayak and I'm not sure why now on Apr 28, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one said it would be easy.
But C’mon Peter, open up the pockets.
Aurilia + Durham + Winn = Texeria ?
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Apr 28, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OKay, I just looked
And freakin Winn is under contract for 2009. He MUST be traded.
Aurilia + Durham = 12m. Texeria is making 12.5m now.
It could happen, the Giants aren’t poor OR small market.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Apr 28, 2008 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't
2009 Winn’s last year under contract? I didn’t bother to look it up ‘cause I’m lazy, but if Bowker and or Schierholtz come on you could realistically DFA Winn, and Roberts too for that matter if he does not want to be a 5th OF.
by tyrannoman on Apr 29, 2008 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Tex is very interesting.
I would love to see him in the cream home uni. At this point can the Giants really risk another larger long term contract? As things stand we figure Zito’s contract is sunk. Most fans figure Rowand’s last 2-3 years will be poor return on the money spent. The Giants can afford some dead payroll ( unlike say the Rockies, Dback and maybe the Pad’s) but looking at having around 50 mill tied up in 3 players in ‘10-12 ( when some of the young arms come up for arbitration &/or free agency) ? That is a Dodgersesque amount of money for 3 players when odds are very likely at least 2 of them will be not good.
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
by daveinexile on Apr 30, 2008 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
but Tex seems to me like a player who will age fairly well. He does not play a demanding position, is in good shape, and he just turned 28 so there should be 4-5 really good years in there. I know Cain is already signed to an extension, and if Sanchez keeps on keeping on I think he will get the next extension. As much as I would like to see Lincecum signing a long term deal, I don’t think that’s gonna happen. He seems like he wants to take it year to year in arbitration and see how much he can get, a la Ryan Howard.
by tyrannoman on Apr 30, 2008 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
true.
Figure Tex will get around 20 million a season. Even if he does not decline ( in fact I am assuming he doesn’t) that is still only one "B" or above level player for 50 mil. That’s rough. In 2 years Cain & Correia are at or near arbitration. Tim not far behind them. (I am not up on what takes a pitcher to qualify as a super two.) That could easily be another 15-20 mill in contracts so now looking at 60-70 million for 6 roster slots. Though the talent in AA & A looks promising they are still 2 levels or more away from the Show in 2 years. Do you see enough home grown talent being MLB average to staff the other 19 active roster spots for 10 mil?
Keep in mind with out Bonds the income revenue will go down. So keeping a payroll around 90 million is probably the best case scenario we can expect.
I hate to say it but the Giants might be better offer if they can swing that 20 million into 3 guys for a couple years that would be decent in positions that we have no in house answers for.
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
by daveinexile on Apr 30, 2008 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you might be right
but the payroll was supposed to increas. With the windfall that is mlb.com, the teams are bringing more revenue into their coffers. I think the attendence will be just fine if the team is winning, plus the Giants’ sell about 20K tickets per game just to the corporate types who won’t give up their seats.
Cain is signed through 2010 with a club option for 2011, so he seems set.
by tyrannoman on Apr 30, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cains contract though is point i am trying make ( though badly).
The Giants sign any player for over 3 years and over say 15 mil per year and that puts the money smack dab in the middle of re securing the young talent we want to keep. I basically means the front office has to trade young talent or leverage the money into a back loaded contracts. Neither is good for this franchise.
I am not auguring a complete attendance crash but I could easily see the owners deciding an off season payroll of 80 mill is the limit. Then if the team does better then expected in ‘09 -’11 the other money is freed to acquire needed parts for a play of push.
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
by daveinexile on May 1, 2008 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven’t heard anything here about the Mets wanting Texeira. He’s more likely a Yankee if he comes to New York. I’ve heard his number one choice is the Orioles though, because he’s from that area.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Apr 28, 2008 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s also a lineup that could be done without giving up any of the young pitching. I’m in!
2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!
by Goofus on Apr 29, 2008 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That 2009 Lineup was almost the same as I drew up...
...only I had Burrell as the 1B (could be had on a shorter contract than Tex) – 3 years and $40 mil seems reasonable for all parties methinks.
by aGIANTfan on Apr 28, 2008 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Burrell might work, but that makes the lineup very righthanded. Love that Tex is a switchitter (which means he should fit in well in San Francisco!)
by tyrannoman on Apr 29, 2008 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had Lewis in front of Burrell and Nate/JB behind with Rowand 6th in my doodlings.
The ‘ideal’ thing would be to draft Alvarez, have him ready for ‘09, be able to stay at 3B and then insert him in the 3-hole and have Lewis remain in the leadoff spot and not spend $$ on Furcal.
That would require my Winn & Correia for Lillibridge and Kotsay (immediately DFA or trade) in the middle of this year to come off and have Lilli in the 8-hole at SS for Frandsen.
by aGIANTfan on Apr 29, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alvarez would have to fly through the system to be ready next year. Lot of pressure on a guy in his first full year of pro ball. Do you think Lincecum’s grow on trees :)
by tyrannoman on Apr 29, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read that in the paper
I read in the paper that Carney did indeed say just that. Carney knows a WHOLE lot more about hitting than I, but in this case I think he is wrong. The one advantage I have over Carney is that I am likely being more objective.
by sharksrog on Apr 28, 2008 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You also have the full weight and confidence of the Chronicles behind you
However: If the wind blows, we might get disoriented and back Carney.
by Moggeee on Apr 29, 2008 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I were you
Hey, if I were you, I would back Carney. I’ve never led the league in hitting! :)
by sharksrog on Apr 29, 2008 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Carney knows so much about hitting, maybe he’s helping Fred to be a better hitter than he was in the minor leagues (under the tutelage of a minor coaching staff which doesn’t have a very good track record).
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Apr 30, 2008 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that the faint aroma of hope I smell?
No I just must up wind of the burning Zito right now.
" Their still Shitty" - Major Leagues the movie.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain. Currently enjoying it more then usual.
by daveinexile on May 1, 2008 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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