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Logical positivism

so are we at our empirical best? or have we better days to look forward to, statistically? where do the Giants fall, if you were to make a "power ranking"  of all the mlb teams as of today? are we at our zenith or nadir? perhaps both, or neither?

 

 my heart still has that dreaded fear that the "S" is going to hit that fan at some point and we'll be 8-21 soon enough, but my mind is going through the statistical optimism that confuses my heart. i keep waiting for bowker and lewis well to start going dry but they arent and my heart tells me it is false hope. what say you? what does the empirical realist or emotional optimist say about them giants?

Poll
which of these are you?
I am an emotional pessimist- no matter what the stats say, my heart tells me to prepare for doom
14 votes
I am a logical positivist- the statistics bear that the giants will continue in this fashion
22 votes
i am neither of the above
26 votes

62 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

0 recs  |  Comment 47 comments

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Neither nadith nor zenir

Los Gigantes definitely played over their heads in STL. Good pitching (for the most part) coincided with good hitting for once, and the Giants picked up a couple of wins against a pretty good team (altho I don’t think they’re as good as their record would indicate).

There will be more 1-0 losses hung on Matt Cain, and a couple of Correia outings where he gives up 5 and still gets the win. Lewis and Bowker will regress to the mean, but that doesn’t mean they’re not better than we thought they were.

So, IMO, this team probably won’t go 8-21, but they won’t go 15-14 either. Probably more like 12-17.

Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Apr 21, 2008 10:07 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I like what I’m seeing right now. The kids look good, and the non washed up veterans like Rowand, Molina and Winn will chip in and contribute some clutch hits. Add this to a rotation that will often dominate (except when Zito’s turn comes up) and this team will wind up being a pleasant surprise. Not good, but good enough to keep us from putting paper bags over our heads, which was the spring training prediction.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on Apr 21, 2008 10:15 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Neato Zito!

Any time Zito pitches, I won’t be watching the game.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Apr 21, 2008 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that idiot Mychal Urban wants to ..

move Zito to #4-5 in the rotation so Zito will face the weaker opp. starters…I say always match Zito
against the opps. best, that way you get Zito’s loss out of the way and Lincecum, Sanchez, Cain, etc
give you a decent shot in the other games…..

by slojoe on Apr 21, 2008 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll say Zenith,

only because I am a pessimist and think it could only get worse like Lincecum straining something or Bowker getting caught juicing or something like that.

Overall, I have liked what I have seen so far since the season began. Yes, Sabean is an idiot and should have had a back-up plan with a 41 year old shortstop, but since then we knew Bocock was going to be horrible with the bat and he is, but his steady glove is a good thing to have. The move of designating Davis for assignment stresses accountability. He has looked lost so far at the plate. If Aurilia continues to do what he’s been doing, he will hopefully get DFA’d as well. Bochy has stayed with Lewis in left field and recently has chosen to play Bowker over Winn in right field a majority of the time during the last week.

On top of that, these savvy vets are starting to hit again. I don’t want to jinx Ray Ray, but he decided not to flex his suck muscle during a couple games this weekend. Also Bochy has been pretty good at getting Velez some starts. Molina scored from second base on a single yesterday and Rowand looks good. Overall I guess I’m happy. I love lowered expectations.

by WilliamVanLandingham on Apr 21, 2008 10:25 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxL1uXwSrdU

Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Apr 21, 2008 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a logical pessimist

my brain says this type of success (ha ha) can’t continue over the long run. I’m will to be pleasantly surprised, though.

by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 21, 2008 10:40 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

that’s “I’m willing…”

by nostocksjustbonds on Apr 21, 2008 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I liked

Kruk’s comment on KNBR this morning (paraphrasing here): “This team is still a ways away from being good, but they’re very close to being entertaining.”

They’re not always going to be entertaining, obviously. We still have many painful stretches of “5 runs in 4 games” ahead of us, but as long as the “unwatchable” moments are less frequent, I’ll keep my number of whiny posts to < 10 per day.

Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.

by Kitspool on Apr 21, 2008 11:20 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That's a tough urge to curb

You might need to wear some sort of nicotine patch.

by Moggeee on Apr 21, 2008 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a Quinean.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Apr 21, 2008 11:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes!

Eliminative Materialists of the world unite!

by Johnny Disaster on Apr 21, 2008 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You guys can come over to my bomb shelter and we can share rations during the cold, bitter, sarcastic months.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Apr 21, 2008 12:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nom nom nom

Homecooked rations? Count me in.

Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.

by Kitspool on Apr 21, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think they’ve earned their record thus far with a combination of good playing + bad playing + good luck + bad luck. It’s been pretty balanced and, with the exception of Bowker, the team doesn’t seem to be playing over their heads, statistically.

2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!

by Goofus on Apr 21, 2008 12:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

not to put to fine a point on it...

but “Logical Positivism” and so-called “Emotional Pessimism” aren’t two sides of a coin, or the two ends of a continuum. “Idealism” is the on other end of the spectrum of “Logical Positivism” (also called empiricism).

There, see? Philosophy degrees aren’t totally useless.

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Apr 21, 2008 1:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think he’s using Postivism to mean “Optimism” here, not in the A.J Ayer/Bertrand Russell sense.

is Idealism the opposite of Logical Positivism? I always thought that idealism had empiricist roots with Bishop Berkeley and Hume.

. . .and I have a friend with a philosophy degree that makes more than I do.

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Apr 21, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

not a philosopher, but...

My understanding was that idealism was a response to empiricism, particularly concerning the question of moral choice. I’ve never read Berkeley or Hume, but I’m thinking of the empiricism of Hobbes. If you take an extreme empiricist view, then everything is causally determined, and the notion of morality disappears because there’s no true free will. So the idealists (I’m thinking mostly of Kant) have to at the very least restrict the scope of what science (empiricist science) explains. We live in a world of causal determination, but we also have free will. Empiricism can tell us about the former but not the latter.

by non sequitur on Apr 22, 2008 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

“not to put to fine a point on it… “

You can never go wrong quoting They Might Be Giants on a Giants-related blog.

2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!

by Goofus on Apr 21, 2008 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

here's one for Giants fans

No one in the world ever gets what they want and that is beautiful.
Everybody dies frustrated and sad and that is beautiful.

-TMBG

you can't block the Bocock

by oldjacket on Apr 21, 2008 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why is Sabean still the GM?

That’s no one’s business but the Turks.

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on Apr 21, 2008 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And here I thought they were pitching baseballs.

I sure hope the rest of the league doesn’t find out about this. If other teams start pitching fellas, too, we could be in trouble.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Apr 21, 2008 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Related Giant Notes...

I trust Zito

about as far as Bruce Bochy can pitch him

by Moggeee on Apr 21, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Barry Zito

I am one of his biggest detractors here in McCoven however I have a different take on Zito than most. Barry Zito is close, very close to finding a winning groove. In his last couple of starts he has progressed. Believe Zito is just about ready to begin posting a couple of “W”s for the Giants in the very near future.

by wilriv21 on Apr 21, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i've heard lots of people say this

and I’m curious on what you base this, wilriv.

(i’m not trying to be argumentative, either. i know you know your stuff, and am curious about what you’ve seen that leads you to believe he’s gettin’ his groove back.)

Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Apr 21, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In each successive start he has improved. Believe he finally is coming to grips with his loss of velocity and understands he needs to pitch differently in the past.

by wilriv21 on Apr 21, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

right

but what is improving, in your opinion? is it something you see in his mechanics, or is he simply allowing fewer baserunners or whatever?

Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Apr 21, 2008 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know absolutely nothing about mechanics. Believe the game is much about mental as is it about physical. Think Zito has made the mental adjustments necessary to deal with his loss of velocity.

by wilriv21 on Apr 21, 2008 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

groovy, thanks!

Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Apr 21, 2008 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mentally he’s prepared to become the left-handed Greg Maddux? (It’ll take that kind of control to make up for his decline in velocity.)

He did hit 86 MPH a couple of times on the game I saw him pitch on the last homestand.

2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!

by Goofus on Apr 21, 2008 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He’s averaging 83.3 MPH according to FanGraphs.

You deserve to be struck out, when your first name's a verb.

by Cookyman on Apr 22, 2008 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

cold hard facts

Giants 8. 11. 61 94 6.0 13.0 67 102 5.9 13.1 73 93 7.4 11.6 2.0 2.1 0.6

Giants have scored 61 runs in 19 games, worst in MLB (by 1… pods scored 62).
They have allowed 94 runs – 13th in the NL, which is… not good.

Component wise, they should have both scored and allowed about 10% more runs (so lucky on defense, unlucky on offense – probably this is just all GIDPs). If you correct for opponents strength, then we add about 10 runs.

I think they are pretty much right where “realistic” expectations had them – finishing about 70-92. (note that they are currently “on pace” for a mere 68 wins…)

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Apr 21, 2008 1:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Aren’t those the same number Hurley used to win the lottery?

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Apr 21, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Part of me thinks this team will do bad...

But mostly I want to believe that they will continue in the fashion that they have started.

by withclubsauce on Apr 21, 2008 3:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm now sold

on Fred Lewis, which I was far from last year. Good plat disipline, a little pop, and mainly good AB’s. Even when he makes the first out of the game, he seems to be working the count pretty deep and seeing a lot of pitches. Bowker (while he’s not going to stay this hot…he hit two seeds last night that were caught) seems to be for real to. He get good lift on the ball from a very short swing, and even looks okay at 1B (though that firstbaseman’s mitt he has looks like it needs to be broken in :) )

by tyrannoman on Apr 22, 2008 8:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Bowker needs some work over there

remember last night when Castillo made a nice play to snare a grounder down the line on a backhand, then popped up and threw low to first, and Bowker couldn’t hang on? You could almost see on Castillo’s face he was pissed off, but also telling himself to give the kid a break because he’s new to the position.

strange that the 3B was probably thinking “why can’t Aurilia be over there right now?”

2002? I'm over it. But I'll never be over Rich Aurilia.

by wjackalope on Apr 22, 2008 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

that ball could’ve been picked, but he has looked okay there. Let’s be honest, though, it is 1B and not catcher. It’s really not the most demanding position on the field. Besides, on that throw Castillo took his sweet time winding up before making a poor throw. Can’t feel too sorry for him.

by tyrannoman on Apr 22, 2008 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree about Castillo’s throw. You can never assume the firstbaseman is going to pick your bad throw out of the dirt. I’m sure Bowker thinks he should have had it, but a dent throw and the point is mute, for all intensive purposes.

2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!

by Goofus on Apr 22, 2008 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Geez, he's missed one in the dirt throw

After playing 1b for two days. So far I would say he looks pretty good over there… Dan ortmeir is crying.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Apr 22, 2008 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, if he wanted the starting job, he should’ve hit three home runs at the beginning of the season.

SAVE_US.RAY
Get yer Nattowear

by Natto on Apr 22, 2008 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he wanted the starting job, he should’ve had three starts at the beginning of the season. Without that, there’s no track record. Clearly Bochy’s hands are tied.

If you like things that are funny, perhaps you will enjoy ChatterBalks Dot Com?

by groug on Apr 22, 2008 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh I agree

I actually think he’s doing fine at 1st and glad they’re workin him in over there. I just thought it was an interesting look castillo had on his face. Like he knew it was really his fault for throwing in the dirt, but wanted to be mad at his first baseman, but couldn’t because of who it was.

2002? I'm over it. But I'll never be over Rich Aurilia.

by wjackalope on Apr 22, 2008 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is one wicked facial expression!

by tyrannoman on Apr 22, 2008 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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