Brian Cashman, best GM in baseball?

Or maybe we should look deeper?

As for the Haren trade, you are overestimating just how good Haren is. Over his career, he gives up quite a bit of unearned runs, so his ERA is deceptive. Haren is very good, but he was never in the Santana, Webb, Smoltz, Sabathia class of pitchers.

His primary value was in his bargain contract, Which will expire in 2 years. At which point, the A’s would have lost him.

If anything, it is the Swisher trade that is more likely to result in a worse situation.

I’m saying that it is likely that the GM in waiting, who would be appointed a few months later, is likely to have a pretty big say in who the team is going to be drafting.

But even if I’m brushing off Hudson, that’s still not a strawman argument. A strawman argument, is where you set up a position that no one is advocating, and then attack that position. For example, this “And it’s not like Beane has a spotless record, either” IS a strawman argument.

The A’s playoff run began in 2000. By 2001, Mulder and Zito were both pitching more than 200 IP each. Zito, 125 ERA+ 214 IP. Mulder, 126 ERA+ in 229 IP. The only year in the A’s playoff run in which Zito and Mulder played less roles was in 2000. Even then, Zito still pitched 92 innings of 172 ERA+ ball in 14 starts.

And Kevin Appier and Gil Heredia, both of whom were as good as Hudson in 2000, were Beane pickups.

Cory Lidle, who was as good as Hudson / Mulder / Zito in 2001 was a Beane pickup. In 2002, he was still a good, valuable starter, 111 ERA+ in 192 IP.
And does the only the first half of the playoff run count? This is your original assertion “Most of the players he built his original playoff run on were not his acquisitions, they were by Alderson,”

Alderson acquired Hudson, Giambi, Chavez, Tejada. Chavez was signed to a new extension after 2003, so Alderson does not get all the credit for Chavez’ production with the A’s.

Beane acuired Mulder, Zito, Ellis, Swisher, Haren, Blanton.

“But look deeper…since the Zito and Mulder drafts, really, how many big name players has he drafted? There’s Jeremy Bonderman in 2001, whom he traded away in perhaps his worst trade of his career.”

So, they did not draft big name players because they are a good team drafting lower in the draft? Whereas when they were a bad team, they drafted higher in the draft? What’s your point?

Secondly, that’s not the worst trade of his career. Not EVEN CLOSE. I suggest you follow the A’s more closely if you want to criticise Beane. The A’s WOULD NOT have been better off keeping Bonderman. Too date, Bonderman is still only a league average innings eater. And is already costing the Tigers $8.5M, and then $25M over the 2 years after this. A prospect that takes such a very long time to develope has no use to the A’s. Trading Bonderman for Ted Lilly was a GOOD TRADE, despite the whining and moaning from the prospect lovers. They got an OK starting pitcher ready to help a contending MLB team by giving up a 20 year old who has ended up being an OK starting pitcher further down in the future, who is being paid market value for his services.

The point with prospects is NOT to hoard them and develope them, much as prospect watchers would like to believe. The point with prospects is find ways to use them to help the team win. Whether that means having them become MLB players on the team OR trading them away for MLB player. A home grown player is no better than a player developed by another team, if they cost the same.

It was trading Ted Lilly for Bobby Kielty that was monumentally stupid.

And why are you only focusing on drafts? Drafting and developing prospects is important, they’re not the end all of baseball, much as prospect watchers want to believe.

Regardless of how he obtained Mark Ellis, Mark Ellis is still an A’s player. A decent hitter, an outstanding defensive 2b. Just because the A’s did not develope Mark Ellis does not mean that Beane does not get credit for Ellis. He turned Angel Berroa into Ellis, and has had Ellis at far below market rates for his service.

Regardless of how he got Cory Lidle, Cory Lidle played a key role on 2 playoff teams.Regardless of how he got Chad Gaudin, Chad Gaudin is on the team. Regardless of how he got Frank Thomas, they don’t make the playoffs in 2006 without Frank Thomas. Regardless of how he got Jack Cust, Jack Cust is on the team. Regardless of how he got Daric Barton, Daric Barton is on the team.

And I’m not sure why you are linking those articles you are linking. What’s your point? That the A’s have issues and had issues? Yeah. So? No one is claiming that Beane is perfect and that the A’s have no issues. Again, strawman.

Now the A’s focus will return to where it should be – drafting and developing talent from its own minor-league system, which has been sorely depleted as Beane has mortgaged prospects for the major league product.

Beane has “mortgaged” prospects for the major league product? Like whom? Andre Ethier? He’s the only prospect who was mortgaged for major league product, where you can argue that he could have done what the major league product did. That’s it.

But this is also from one of the articles you linked,

Remember the MarkMcGwire trade? Fans shrieked. It was the end of the world as they knew it. Remember when Tim Hudson and Mark Mulder were shipped away? Those deals appeared to signal several summers of discontent.

OK, there was some suffering for it.

But the A’s came out OK at the other end—nine straight winning seasons before last year’s injury-riddled crash. The regeneration philosophy has served the organization well. In truth, it is the only way it can compete with the big boys, and nobody knows that better than Beane.

Also, the problem with the drafting and the farm has been that Beane has been a cheapskate. If you truly want real criticism and analysis of Beane, without axe grinding, and do not want to follow the team, try reading Athletics Nation. The posters there at least know what they’re talking about when they criticise Beane. For example this is hardly fanboyish, but is at the very least from someone who seriously follows the team, and did some research, instead of arguing against strawmen and regurgitating anti moneyball mantra that Beane got lucky on Alderson’s players:

Billy Beane has been a penny-pinching fool and his lack of foresight wrecked the farm system. He methodically engineered the crisis that compelled him to trade two of his best players for prospects in an attempt to revitalize a franchise that only a year ago was poised to become the dominant entity in a split market. Beane foolishly threw away this golden opportunity because he seemed to forget one of the most basic rules of sports… talent wins. The cold, hard truth is talent costs money and Beane turned his back on two crucial sources for acquiring amateur talent under the guise of frugality or stupidity, take your pick. The result is the Oakland A’s team you see today, a rebuild project expected to take 2-3 years if all goes right.

emphasis mine. It is a really long post which Beane haters should read. It at least will provide them with accurate information to use against Beane, instead of the old usual, tired, and wrong information that is often regurgitated.

“No matter the praise or complaints or the methods, both Beane and Sabean ended overall winning runs in the same place: having to rebuild the teams’ barren farm system from nearly scratch.”

So, in your opinion, Brian Cashman is the best GM in baseball, John Schuerholtz is a poor and overrated GM? Because you seem to totally and completely ignore context.