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Third

by Grant on Mar 3, 2008 1:01 PM PST in News Comment 59 comments

The new rage: Eugenio Velez, potential third baseman. It's a counterintuitive move, as third basemen usually have a little bit of power, and Velez hits like Bill Mueller on a hunger strike. But if the goal is to sift through the young players and see who should stick around for the rebuilding process, the young players need playing time. Joe Crede, whose contract expires at the end of this year, would not help this goal. Please refer to this professionally made flow chart for further explanation.

Pros to starting Velez at third:

Gets Velez some at-bats
The Giants don't give up anything for Joe Crede
It's fun watching him run?

Cons to starting Velez at third:

There's about a 5% chance that Velez will ever hit enough to be a legit third baseman.
Squeezes at-bats from Kevin Frandsen once Omar Vizquel comes back.
Fields like a drunk and gloveless Ben Grimm.

I think the pro side has it. The real answer - wait, five months of offseason and Eugenio Velez is our best option at third? - is just spilt milk at this point. It isn't delicious cow's milk, either. It's best not to think about exactly what kind of milk it is.

0 recs | Comment 59 comments

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Comments

Re: Third

Velez is like strawberry milk. He's an acquired taste.

Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Mar 3, 2008 12:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Delicious Ram's Milk?

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Mar 3, 2008 1:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Velez: Ram's Milk :: Crede: Malk. Now with Vitamin R.

Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Mar 3, 2008 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

I was just trying to figure out how to post an image of that: Malk - now with vitamin R - but my computer is not co-operating. Maybe one of you net-wizards can handle it!

by Merope on Mar 3, 2008 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Mar 3, 2008 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Go you!

by Merope on Mar 3, 2008 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Considering Velez's cost containment in the near future, and the not-to-be-dismissed entertainment factor of Velez on the basepaths (as Roger pointed out elsewhere), I was inclined to think that Velez should be our 3B and we should stay away from Crede.

But, Grant, your magnificently constructed flow chart was the deciding factor. How you were able to factor in all the various factors, co-factors, side factors, and tangents into one glorious whole, I'll never know. I bow to your superior analytical and spreadsheet skills!

We don't need no stinkin' power - bring on the speed at 3B!!

"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Mar 3, 2008 1:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Yeess. Grant can spread sheet with the beest of them. And for the reest of us...

Tune-up your manure spreader.
Take a look at your manure/compost spreader to see if it needs any tune-up work done. You may need to oil or grease a few parts before putting it into action. The drive mechanism or beater bar gears could probably use some attention. Check the air in the tires and see if you need to grease the bearings or PTO shaft and couplings. It is always good to check these things out now because when you're ready to start spreading you don't want spend half the day running around fixing things before starting the real work (speaking from experience!)

***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Mar 3, 2008 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sheet

K, is this some of that alternative fuel you're involved with?

"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Mar 4, 2008 6:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

I wouldn't give up much for Crede, and it may that the Indians won't require much, as long as they are free of Joe's contract. I would also look at the likelihood of receiving a draft choice should Joe sign with someone else over next winter.

But if those factors were good, I would be willing to go after Joe and take a chance that at age 29 now, he could (still or for the first time?) be an above-average starter at third base.

From the standpoint of drawing fans, Eugenio Velez could be useful. After stealing only 11 bases in 24 attempts (46%) in his three seasons in the Blue Jays' organization, Eugenio has exploded for 114 in 150 attempts (IIRC, 79%) in just two minor league seaons for the Giants. Eugenio would hit some exciting triples into Triples Alley, with a few of them perhaps even having inside-the-park potential for a flash-fast singles hitter.

But I think it is quite possible Eugenio will become yet another Giant whose OBP falls below .300. As a third baseman, he likely would have one of the weakest bats in the modern era.

He might become the Mario Mendoza of third baseman.

by sharksrog on Mar 3, 2008 2:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

"With his 3-for-4 game today, Darren Baker finally got his average up over the Velez line..."

By the way, I'm sure the Indians would give up Crede for virtually nothing.

2008: The year the Giants begin to stop sucking.

by EliminateMe on Mar 3, 2008 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

That is great stuff, Eliminate! So I had Joe playing for the wrong team, eh? And here I thought he had to be traded to the Giants before that could happen. :)

by sharksrog on Mar 4, 2008 1:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

What (and when) did the Indians have to give up to get Crede from the White Sox?

by allfrank on Mar 3, 2008 3:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

See, that's why they'd give him up for virtually nothing.

2008: The year the Giants begin to stop sucking.

by EliminateMe on Mar 3, 2008 4:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

The real answer is a milkshake, and Joe Crede is Daniel Day-Lewis in "There Will Be Blood."

Eagerly awaiting Crazy Crab Bobblehead Night on 7/18.

by Kitspool on Mar 3, 2008 1:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

iawtmilkshake

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Mar 3, 2008 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

How's bout that Noah Lowry?

I have to admit I was pulling for a 10-0 no hitter.

I've decided Noah just really really doesn't want to get traded for Joe Crede.

I hope we find out someday that Jeff Kent did steroids

by lincysgiants on Mar 3, 2008 1:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Third Base - Take 2

How about Travis Denker? Then we can use Velez as super pinch runner exrtaordinare. Like, Molina could hit a single off the right field wall, then we could put in Velez and the umpire, knowing that his head doesn't bob when he runs, would just tell him to go to third. That would be a real asset, it think.

by Make me an Offer on Mar 3, 2008 1:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third Base - Take 2

Fascinating. What else does it think? And what does it smoke?

Denker is kind of intriguing- I'll grant that.

***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Mar 3, 2008 2:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

is it cat's milk?

"cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Mar 3, 2008 1:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

I'm sticking with the male specific versions of animals. Therefore, I think Tomcat would be the appropriate question here.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Mar 3, 2008 2:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Is that like a tomboy?

All you guys talk about is the baseball boogie and Angel Villalona.

by Woody Wins on Mar 3, 2008 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Not exactly... though they probably have similar origins. a Tomcat is actually a boy cat, whereas a Tomboy is just a boy girl.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Mar 3, 2008 2:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

so maybe a tomboycat? that would be a girl cat trying to be a boycat. Technically we could get some milk out of those teets.

by WilliamVanLandingham on Mar 3, 2008 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

I think I'm just causing confusion with my whole "is it male milk?" stance on the issue.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Mar 3, 2008 3:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Wait, you mean you had some goal other than causing confusion?

2008: The year the Giants begin to stop sucking.

by EliminateMe on Mar 3, 2008 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

If I said no, would it confuse you?

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Mar 3, 2008 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

If I said no, would you say yes?

2008: The year the Giants begin to stop sucking.

by EliminateMe on Mar 3, 2008 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Well I wouldn't not say it.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Mar 3, 2008 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Will men eventually evolve to be nippleless?

All you guys talk about is the baseball boogie and Angel Villalona.

by Woody Wins on Mar 3, 2008 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

I should hope not! My nipples are actually my guiltiest pleasure. And they're tiny.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Mar 3, 2008 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

TMI!

WWTMI!

2008: The year the Giants begin to stop sucking.

by EliminateMe on Mar 3, 2008 5:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Damn howie...I'm not sayin you're gonna wake up tomorrow without nips. I'm just saying since they really serve no physiological purpose, will men evolve to be nipple-free? We cant lactate. What do we need em for?

All you guys talk about is the baseball boogie and Angel Villalona.

by Woody Wins on Mar 3, 2008 5:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

"I'm not sayin you're gonna wake up tomorrow without nips."

Wait, so that's not how evolution works?

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Mar 3, 2008 6:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

And actually, males can lactate! And you can get some milk out of yourself with proper and prolonged stimulation. Not, you know, a lot. But it's possible.

Evolutionarily speaking... human nipples begin development before a fetus's gender is determined in gestation. It seems like evolving out of that would be more than just a structural (bodily) evolutionary change. It would have to alter the actual chronology of fetal develpment. Now, I don't really know anything about how science works, but somehow that feels less surmountable than, say, evolving extra knuckles on most of your fingers.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Mar 3, 2008 6:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Well then I guess its a good think you ended up being male. With those aforementioned tiny nipples you would have had thirsty babies. I know that because science says nipple size is directly proportional to lactate-volume.

All you guys talk about is the baseball boogie and Angel Villalona.

by Woody Wins on Mar 3, 2008 6:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Why the hell are you guys talking about howtheyscored as a potential breast-feeder in a thread about Velez?!?

It's obviously worth a separate diary.

You deserve to be struck out, when your first name's a verb.

by Cookyman on Mar 4, 2008 7:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Ha, FINALLY a change wield my intellectual penis on MCC!

The reason it's unlikely for male nipples to "evolve away" is that they are neutral. There is no advantage to males either having or not having them, and mutations eliminating them are rare - so we will probably have them forever.*

Kind of like Kevin Frandsen vs. Ray Durham. It just doesn't matter that much.

*\ Exception, if a nippleless nipplby arises, and is segregated (presumable with a bunch of fertile women) you could have a splinter colony of nippless-males. Assuming nipplessless breeds true and doesn't hurt anything in men or decendents of them.

by zenbitz on Mar 4, 2008 8:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Remember the last time a really hot woman tried to return the favor by physiologically stimulating you there?

Well , come to think of it if you're adopting that position maybe you don't.

NL West TempestTeapot...the AL doesn't care WHO you sign.

by victor frankenstein on Mar 3, 2008 10:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Because they're fun?

Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Mar 4, 2008 6:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Mine aren't. For every one time they give me pleasure, there are 10 times they chafe up a storm.

All you guys talk about is the baseball boogie and Angel Villalona.

by Woody Wins on Mar 4, 2008 6:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

It always comes back to those darn MCC t-shirts, doesn't it?

2008: The year the Giants begin to stop sucking.

by EliminateMe on Mar 4, 2008 8:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Amen.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Mar 4, 2008 10:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Asked how Velez's combination of speed and power measured up against players from his era, Kelly quickly offered the name of future Hall of Famer Rickey Henderson.

"He may even have more home run power than Rickey did," said Kelly, who roamed the same outfield with Henderson as a member of the New York Yankees.

One doesn't dare argue with Roberto Kelly.

So relax! Let's have some fun out here! This game's fun, OK? Fun goddamnit.

by ResDog on Mar 3, 2008 2:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

nor does one believe any words that come out of his mouth starting now. If I was on the Giants and he told me to go for two, i would stop at first base.

by WilliamVanLandingham on Mar 3, 2008 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Yea with Flannery and that guy we're gonna set a record for runners thrown out on the bases.

Wait...scratch that. If we had a team that could get runners on base, we would set a record for runners thrown out on the bases.

All you guys talk about is the baseball boogie and Angel Villalona.

by Woody Wins on Mar 3, 2008 4:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Whoa now Roberto, that's almost like calling Todd Linden Mickey Mantle.

by xanthan on Mar 3, 2008 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

I hope Kelly is right -- but at this moment I'm questioning his sanity. :)

by sharksrog on Mar 4, 2008 1:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

back to u hen io and Creed...on the money front, think of alternative uses for the aprx $5 million: Latin scouting, draftee bonuses, lower beer prices...free scorecards... FA relief pitchers when we are a contender...

adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson

by foothillsfan on Mar 3, 2008 4:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

don't forget hookers and blow

Rajai Davis: fast.

by Mike Benjamin Hit King on Mar 3, 2008 4:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

I wouldn't mind seeing Velez for a year at 3B as he's groomed for as a possible heir to Omar's throne:

It'll give him a chance to prove whether his offense is for real
It'll give him a chance to work on his left-side D
His lack of power would not be glaring when he moves to SS

Hoping tk's recovery is faster than Raj going from first to third!

by Goofus on Mar 3, 2008 5:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

My regards

Having been an IT professional since around 1980, I would like to compliment Grant on one of the better flowcharts I have ever seen or produced. Succinct and easy to follow. Bravo.

SF has an opening for a 3b and ALL in-house options should be explored first. Leone, Aurilia, Velez, Denker, Villalona etc should be given the opportunity to see if any of them can handle the position before making a trade. If SF decides to make a deal hopefully the Giants will deal for a young talent who can play in The City for years.

by wilriv21 on Mar 3, 2008 5:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Kudos on the flow chart - much more readable than what I get at work. I do have to quibble with one thing - I feel sure that EV can rise at least to the level of a gloved and drunken Ben Grimm.

by Johnny Disaster on Mar 3, 2008 6:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Kudos on the flow chart - much more readable than what I get at work.

<nerdy stickler>Easy to read, but I was bothered by the box being a question, while the diamond was a statement.</nerdy stickler>

by blank on Mar 4, 2008 7:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

You are of course correct, but the last 'flow chart' I got had every box the same shape and color.

by Johnny Disaster on Mar 4, 2008 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

As I argue over at my pad, I would agree to a Crede trade only on several conditions, one of which is if the Giants also lose at least one savvy veteran in the deal (or in a separate deal). If somehow they could dispatch Aurilia while taking on Crede, they'd gain defense, at least a bit more offense, and wouldn't spend much more than what they owed Aurilia.

"There's not enough bases out there to intentionally walk everybody you want to." - Grady Little

by leftymalo on Mar 3, 2008 10:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

The result of this diary is that I will forever think of him as Rich Areola.

NL West TempestTeapot...the AL doesn't care WHO you sign.

by victor frankenstein on Mar 3, 2008 10:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Has Woody Harrelson been doing the milking ?

Bull milking seems to be about as effective as Sabean front office finding corner infielders. So in this case why not Velez? Maybe Denker by August. shrugs

... and by the way Dodgers should always suffer like they are back in Brooklyn before World War II.

by daveinexile on Mar 4, 2008 10:28 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Third

Grant, your MS Paint skills are otherworldly.

But I have a problem with the actual chart. When I start the flowchart, it asks "Can the Giants contend?" and I answer yes. So I follow the flow chart to the next box and it says "No they can't". I follow the flow chart and I get asked if the Giants can contend. I say yes and follow the flow chart. For some reason, I end up at the same box again.

Is the flow chart broken?

Sincerely,

One of those fans swimming in De Nile.

by Teh Nuschler Face on Mar 4, 2008 10:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

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