Weighing in on the Big Move

by Grant on Mar 24, 2008 1:11 AM PDT Comment 31 comments

Jose Castillo has a career on-base percentage under .300. In his best season (2005), he was a warmed-over Pedro Feliz minus the defense. He doesn't walk, he has middling power, and his minor-league stats were never especially impressive at any level. And I love that the Giants picked him up. For clarification, please check in with the Joe Crede trade threat advisory system:

Beautiful. Jose Castillo has about a 4% chance of ever helping the Giants win any sort of playoff spot. Joe Crede would have a -2% chance of ever doing the same. The math has it. In a system that is barren of any sort of cost-controlled youth, Jose Castillo represents a welcome stab in the dark. He used to be a good prospect, albeit one who was rushed more than his performance should have dictated. If you squint, that 2005 season can look like a season that hinted at something more. Toolsy middle infielders with 15-homer power aren't that common. After last call in the Optimism Tavern, you'll go home with just about anything.

The best argument against a 4%-solution like Castillo is that he might take at-bats from players like Kevin Frandsen and Eugenio Velez. It's a fair point, but it assumes that Frandsen and Velez are superior prospects. Frandsen has much better contact numbers than Castillo, but he can't offer the same power. Velez, for all of his spidery glory, has a single low-A season at the age of 24 as the main bullet point on his resume. Castillo might be the lesser of the three, but it isn't a landslide.

It's an ugly situation. Castillo probably won't help. But he has a good chance at leading the team in not being Joe Crede. We'll always be eternally grateful to him for that. Between Castillo, Frandsen, and Velez, maybe the Giants can squeeze out a starting second baseman for the next four years. The organization definitely has the time to sort that all out this year. One more warm body can only help the odds.

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Low

The addition of Jose Castillo is a low risk investment. The best part of the pick-up is now the Giants will have a bacl-up for Omar Vizquel throughout the season. Because Castillo can play many positions Bochy can be flexible with his line-ups and defensive switches. If Castillo stumbles he has a split contract and an option so Fresno is also a possibility,

by wilriv21 on Mar 24, 2008 1:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Elevated

I don't think this will appease the Credemongers in the SF front office. This is probably an example of short-term thinking, with Vizquel's injury chiefly in mind. The fact that Castillo could play 3B is just a shiny bonus in Sabean's eyes.

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on Mar 24, 2008 3:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Guarded

I feel the best part of this whole situation is that Castillo is low rent, and didn't cost the Giants anything in return, Therefore, if he does struggle, the Front office will not feel the need to keep him around. And, he can be optioned down, so we can hold on to him within the organization to make sure he isn't what we are looking for. When you have virtually nothing, anything becomes something. This low risk anything is just fine for now.

Proud supporter of the Fightin' Hydrants.

by Little Napoleon on Mar 24, 2008 4:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think you have the realistic marketing slogan:

When you have virtually nothing, anything becomes something.

Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!

by Lyle on Mar 24, 2008 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yea..

I'm still looking at between elevated and high. Fred Lewis isn't enough (in the eyes of the White Sox) and two top ten prospects is too much (in the eyes of the Giants). I can see someone like Henry Sosa going to them. And that isn't good.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Mar 24, 2008 7:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

My Hope

is that the level is Guarded at best. The problem is that we are dealing with Brian Sabean here. You know, the guy who has a terminal case of "savvy veteran-itis", I would think that the level is closer to Elevated.

While Williams has said that a player like Fred Lewis is not enough, it would be a shame to trade anyone with any future value for Crede.

Just Say No ! The Giants record with Joe Crede: 74-86. The Giants record without Joe Crede: 74-86.

My adopted son Matt Downs. Gamer !

by nvsfg on Mar 24, 2008 7:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Keep Him At Short

As long as he plays shortstop, I have no problem with this acquisition. He seemed decent enough at shortstop yesterday, and neither Frandsen or Velez can play that position. He's certainly going to hit better than Brian Bocock, and he's probably going to hit better than Omar as well, especially with his occasional power. I don't want to see him taking atbats away from Frandsen or Velez, but they actually deserve Jose Castillo coming here, especially Frandsen. Kevin had a chance to seize that Opening Day shortstop position and he didn't do it. He basically gave the Giants no choice, just as Daniel Ortmeier is also doing, as he's incredibly close to handing away his free shot at first base. If the Giants DO get Crede, and move Richie over to first base, it will be Dan's fault. We can't even blame the Giants for going with the veterans over the kids.

Randy Messenger: "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!!"

by rxmeister on Mar 24, 2008 7:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The fielding numbers on Castillo are pretty awful. He's spent most of his major-league career at second and consistently been one of the worst players in the league there.

But in his brief time at third last year, his numbers were quite good. And he does have a very strong arm. So I'd be thinking of him as a third baseman, playing the middle infield only rarely.

by Evan on Mar 24, 2008 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1 , 000 , 000 , 000...

That's the sum total of our 2008 situation...inopportunists.
OK , maybe not the sum total , but a great percentage.

Aaron "Swag" Rowand

by victor frankenstein on Mar 24, 2008 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Davis, Lewis and Velez have really shined in their opportunity.

2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!

by Goofus on Mar 24, 2008 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which is it?

The low-cost acquisition of Castillo can either be interpreted as protection against a stupid trade for Crede, Inge, or possibly Helms; or a negotiating ploy by Sabean to drive down the price of these other options.

Up until Saturday I was very concerned that it was the latter, since there were rumblings that today was going to be a very busy trading day and I hadn't yet seen the moves these other teams were making to account for keeping the others on their rosters. But the White Sox have since sent down their young 3B of the future, and there has been no new talk yet about the other two over the last 24-36 hours.

I'd like to think that Sabean has really decided to move on and not do something stupid here, but he still wants to move some vets and other teams really need pitching, and that worries me greatly. I'm going to keep my eyes on the Angels front today, because I think Sabean would jump at a chance to grab Kotchman to solve the 1B hole. As rxmeister says, Castillo's acquisition helps most at SS, and as long as Durham is on the roster putting up decent numbers, that leaves Frandsen and Aurilia for 3B and Ortmeier hanging by a thread.

by Buck Henry on Mar 24, 2008 7:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I tend to be reading the few tea leaves I can see the same way.

You should probably be concerned if your after accuracy.

I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain.

by daveinexile on Mar 24, 2008 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"I'd like to think that Sabean has really decided to move on and not do something stupid here"

In my experience, people who do stupid things aren't aware that they're doing so at the time. If you're right, Sabean deserves extra credit for recognizing something stupid in advance.

2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!

by Goofus on Mar 24, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Low

I'm willing to give Sabean the benefit of the doubt. I am no fan of Sabean's, but I have to give him high marks for all the stupid trades he didn't make this season. Certainly the opportunity was there for him to make several. Had this been Sabean's first year as GM we would be giving him more credit. We aren't of course because we are judging him by the stupidity of previous seasons when the Giants had a win now philosophy. That philosophy may have been at the behest of MacGowan. I think there is reason for hope given the rumors that the Giants have put their veterans on the trading block. I'm guessing there is no Crede in our future now and I'm okay with that.

by marklar on Mar 24, 2008 9:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Crede

I agree with everything you said, except I still expect to see Joe Crede playing third base for us on Opening Day. My prediction is that the White Sox place him on waivers, Sabean picks him up when he clears, and Ken Williams joins Dave Littlefield as the rare GM that Sabean has outfoxed in the last couple of seasons.

Randy Messenger: "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!!"

by rxmeister on Mar 24, 2008 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So I Googled "Joe Crede"...

..."Because inquiring minds want to know!"

(Like me!)

And I see that they gave him $5.1 million in January.
THIS January.

And you honestly think that's not going to keep him there as a backup for the duration of the year?

Aaron "Swag" Rowand

by victor frankenstein on Mar 24, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This diagram...

Is nice, but I could really use a .pdf to explain things in language Sabean can understand. Don't you have one of those lying around?

And yes, I'm 100% okay with this.

And Boom Goes the Dynamite

by Andy from DC on Mar 24, 2008 9:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't buy it

Castillo at best should be the 2B/3B injury replacement at AAA. there is no way he should take time from Velez, Ortmeier or Frandsen. If Bochy and Sabean were willing to put a bad defensive SS out in the field for 2 weeks, frandsen would be the opening day SS. Bocock should still be the opening day SS because he makes the team better defensively. Castillo's bat isn't good enough to warrant suffering through his defense. The Giants front office shouldn't even consider starting Aurilia either. Both Castillo and Aurilia have a significantly lower chance of being a part of the next Giants winning team than do Velez, Ortmeier or Frandsen. Have Ortmeier and Frandsen had encouraging spring trainings? No. However, Ortmeier and Frandsen should be overlooked by worse prospects and veterans because of a rough few weeks. These three need to be given regular playing time to see what they can do. If Frandsen or Durham have a bad 6 weeks to open the season, give Velez a shot. If Castillo tears it up in Fresno and Frandsen and Velez falter, then Castillo should get a shot. But not before. But even I know this isn't going to happen. darn

Praying nightly that the annual Giants horrid FA pickup is avoided this time around. EDIT: Oh, i forgot, all reason gets thrown out the window when "Warrior Spirit" is involved.

by Speedforthewin on Mar 24, 2008 11:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

You make good points...

..but I cringe whenever I see that "next winning team" line. Should Magowan and Sabean tank games because every player on the roster near 30 years old will not be on the next Giant winning team?? Do that and you can say goodbye to half your season ticket holders and welcome to being the laughingstock of baseball. If you own or run this team, you have to put a decent product on the field, and while you may not like it, the Rich Aurilias, Joe Credes, and Ray Durhams of the world have to play until the Frandsen and Ortmeiers prove to be better players. Especially on March 31st!! It's one thing to be 30 games out and play all the kids in August, but it's another to deliberately field a team that might not be your best because it's the youngest one you can put on the field. There's plenty of time to go young over the course of the 162 game season if this team goes straight into the crapper.

Randy Messenger: "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!!"

by rxmeister on Mar 24, 2008 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see the point...

Of thinking that Frandsen and Ortmeier are good enough in September and replacing them with Castillo/Aurilia type talent in March during spring training. Ortmeier has played much better the past week, and mentioning frandsen may be a mute point if he is still hurt come opening day. I don't believe that Castillo is an upgrade over any current infielder on the roster, although i do like bringing him in to have a viable injury replacement given Aurilia's injury problems in the past and the concerns with Durham and Frandsen's injuries. I also agree with the "warm body" theory. And I do think that Castillo's best quality is not being Crede. I just don't think he should take at bats from players who warrant consideration. One last note: Kelly Johnson and Dustin Pedroia were handed 2nd base shots last year and rewarded their respective teams. Why the Giants can't make a leap of faith is beyond me.

Praying nightly that the annual Giants horrid FA pickup is avoided this time around. EDIT: Oh, i forgot, all reason gets thrown out the window when "Warrior Spirit" is involved.

by Speedforthewin on Mar 24, 2008 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Castillo's best quality is he's not Vinny Castilla and I think you meant "moot", for all intensive purposes.

2008 Giants: A steaming pile of scrap!

by Goofus on Mar 24, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're only exasperating the situation, you know.

2008: My previous assessment may have been overly optimistic.

by EliminateMe on Mar 24, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its Goofus' habit.

I looked up Steve Kline in the dictionary. He wasn't there. If he was, it would have said "pretty okay"

by groug on Mar 24, 2008 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and I think you meant "intents and purposes"

by seals on Mar 24, 2008 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eggcorns!

http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/comments/2008/1/28/144642/975/44#1257632

SAVE_US.RAY

by Natto on Mar 25, 2008 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ortmeier hasn't played any better

Two of his hits should have been scored as errors. They were easy grounders that were misplayed. I hope the Giants ignore that fact and give him a chance in the regular season. And I hope Castillo magically learned to play short in the last 3 years of not playing there and that he keeps Bocock off the roster.

Bengie Molina: stretching doubles into singles since 1998.

by jasomack on Mar 24, 2008 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe

this is just a way to protect Bocock from starting his options. I mean, is it really worth starting those options now for a 2 weeks as the starting SS? Not really. Castillo can bat as well or better (probably better) than Bocock, and it allows Bocock to go back to A or AA and actually learn how to hit, rather than be thrown to the wolves so to speak.

2002? I'm over it. But I'll never be over Rich Aurilia.

by wjackalope on Mar 24, 2008 11:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

GUARDED

Low risk, low reward.

At least he isn't extremely old, and hasn't signed a multi-year deal (yet). I'd like to think Sabes is still capable of scraping the dumpster for the "unwanted, yet capables", but I think Kevin Towers is the current dumpster diving champ.

Derin McMains had five fingers, but he only used three.

by oooreebay on Mar 24, 2008 12:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

That threat level graphic...

...is that the official one from the Department of Home Plate Security?

2008: My previous assessment may have been overly optimistic.

by EliminateMe on Mar 24, 2008 12:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I like this move a lot

First off the Giants claimed Castillo off of waivers which means they didn't have to give up anything for him which I think is really important. You can say Castillo isn't that good all you want, but he is really not that much worse than Crede or Inge considering the Giants would have to give up something to get either one of those guys. Castillo is also a lot cheaper making only $650k, and only $150k if he goes down to the minors, while Crede will be making $5.1 million and Inge will get over $6 million for a couple years. I think this move pretty much ensures that the Giants will not be trading for either Crede or Inge which is a great thing.

Second, the IF is having a lot of trouble staying healthy right now. Durham, Omar, Frandsen and Aurilla have all already missed time with injuries and some could start the season on the DL. I really don't know why some people think he is coming here to start, he will just be a utility guy (if Durham or Aurilla are traded because of their great spring trainings) or go back down to the minors once everyone is healthy. He will most likely start the season at SS but will lose that once Omar is back. Does it really make sense to start Bocock's clock when he is clearly not ready just so he can fill in for two weeks? That is just kind of dumb, not to mention he would be taking up a spot on the 40 man roster.

Based on spring training I think the IF will consist of Velez, Vizquel, Durham and Aurilla most of the time. I don't really have a problem with this because if they can carry that over into the season they can be traded to help improve the farm system. Hopefully the same is true for Winn. If they stumble at all then you just bench them and just start the younger guys.

by Eric2013 on Mar 24, 2008 1:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs