Bigger Fish?
According to Baggarly in the Merc, we've been inquiring into the possibility of acquiring Casey Kotchman and Jeff Mathis from the Halos. Their GM says "no match", but qualifies it with "not now". The word is that they were mainly interested in Bengie in return. Mama mia!
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That would be nice. Too nice for sabes.
Matt Cain, cleanup hitter or starting pitcher?
by cain1rstballothof on Mar 21, 2008 7:53 AM PDT reply actions
Sabean would never do this move. It would imply that he was wrong to:
A. Bring in Molina in the first place.
B. Not have any back up plans for his ill conceived notions of how to put together a major league roster.
We all know Sabean would never make any move that rectified earlier moves he has made, as that would make him look weak. And embolden the Terrorists.
Proud supporter of the Fightin' Hydrants.
by Little Napoleon on Mar 21, 2008 8:08 AM PDT reply actions
The reason why this deal hasn't happened yet is because as it says in the article, the Angels want a SP, and the Giants don't want to give them up.
Kotchman hit .296, with 11HR, and 68 RBIs with a .372 OBP and .467SLG and is a great defensive first baseman.
Mathis hit .211 with 4HR and 23 RBIs with a .276 OBP and slugged .351. I think Alfonzo or Grod could do better than this guy.
I would throw in Misch to get this done.
Optimist Outlook: Gamers rhymes with winners
Pessimist Outlook: Gamers rhymes with losers
My Outlook: Augusta Greenjackets FTW!!
the Angels want a SP
126 MIL 126 MIL 126 MIL 126 MIL
Did the GM say, "not now, sweetheart" to Sabes?
Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Mar 21, 2008 8:48 AM PDT reply actions
Now this is interesting and hopeful.
It’s the kind of thing that would have made cold, December & January mornings much more enjoyable. As opposed to watching the baseball equivalent to Sabean pilot the Exxon Valdez this winter.
I am a Giants fan. Thus I enjoy my pain.
pwetty pwease?
Is it going to take a terrible start to get this rebuilding thing underway? Getting some value for Molina should be a top priority, and getting a young 1B with serious upside goes without saying... if they really want Molina, would Mike Napoli be available? Or am I asking for too many good, young players?
Bengie Molina: stretching doubles into singles since 1998.
Please,Please, Please
make this happen.
The only thing holding this up is a young starting pitcher ? This is a problem ? As long as the names are not Matt or Tim, even Sabean should be able to make this trade.
My adopted son Matt Downs. Bococks up, why not Downs ? Bocock Jokes in the sig line :-)
Somebody wants Molina?
For crying out loud this had better be stalling because of the SP thing and NOT because Sabean doesn't want to lose Bengie. Please please please please please, not because we want to keep Bengie.
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!
I like Bengie for one reason only. I can point out to my kids that I can probably do a home-to-first time that is reasonably similar to his.
Also, hts-----like your av. Very nice. I have a couple of stickers with that same logo. Although you must know that my previous anti-Dodgers sticker got defaced with some blue spray-paint (probably some Sureno gang member idiot) last season. Not to fear, though. A new one is on the way.
The Johnnie LeMaster Fan Club vice-president. E6 Forever!
I'll believe it when I see it
Positive moves are a rare breed around these parts lately.
Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.
Can we trade GM's first?
I'll take my answer off the air.
Idolizing the Nuschler Face since April 8, 1986 / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Mar 21, 2008 10:31 AM PDT reply actions
My guess( and like everyone else, probably including Baggarly, we are all guessing) is the Angels want Sanchez, while we are offering Correia or Misch. Molina + Sanchez is a LOT, so I don't fault Sabean for holding off. Correia or Misch we can afford as we have the equivalent part in Palmer. It is also a dicey trade because we have no MLB catchers in our system at the present time, so would either have to get someone back or know we could trade for one. I am not sure Inge can be regarded as an everyday (120 fames) starting C.
Why?
Given that IIRC Kevin Correia has a lower ERA over the past two seasons than any other Giants' pitcher, why do we give him so little love? Incredibly, last season his line drive percentage was lower than even Tim Lincecum's or Matt Cain's. I believe Kevin is still only 27 and hasn't he now pitched in parts of five different major league seasons?
I'm nominating Kevin Correia as the most under-appreciated of Giants.
by sharksrog on Mar 21, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+2 and a loud "AMEN!!!!"
"But if he's swinging at real flies, well, in that case there are two definite solutions: 1) Fresno 2) Ritalin." - howtheyscored
LD%
I'll bet you money that his LD% was a fluke, IRC with pitchers that threw 100 IP or more, Correia was 3rd in LD%. League average is 20% and for his career he's 19.8% for LD%, I think he'll regress to the mean some.
He's a nice pitcher, but I don't think he's more than a 5th starter.
http://www.baycityball.com
What's your definition of 5th starter?
A "typical" 5th starter, ie what teams usually get out of the 5th spot? Or is your definition what a team hopes fo out of the 5th spot?
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
5th Starter
Good point, the idea of "x pitcher could be an x starter" is arbitrary and changes from person to person.
I meant on average as to what teams generally get from that rotation spot.
THT did a basic ERA analysis a few years ago and found that a 5th starter in the NL, on average, had an ERA in the mid 5's. ERA isn't a great way to evaluate pitching talent, I think we can all agree on that, but I would imagine that given a full season of starts Correia would be between 4.50 and 5.00 for ERA.
So maybe not a 5th starter, but somewhere between a 4-5?
http://www.baycityball.com
Yeah, being a league average 5th starter
is pretty bad: the average 5th starter has an ERA+ of around 80.
A 4 is typically around 90. 3 is around 96-98, 2 is around 105, 1 is around 118-120.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Does it matter?
Sure, losing our only major league ready catcher wouldn't be great but then again, who else on this team is major league ready? If we can get two pieces that might help us out going forward for one, I say do it. And this coming from a guy who loves Molina. We are in a bad way from an organizational standpoint. Having said that, Sabes is an idiot and will never do this deal.
If this actually happens, I will erect an exquisite to-scale bust of sabean as a heroic knight riding a majestic horse in mid-stride.
SAVE_US.RAY
That feels somehow redundant
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!
by howtheyscored on Mar 21, 2008 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Bananas?
Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Mar 21, 2008 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Does?
Does the Bo- in Bocock stand for big old? By the way, pretty darn nice comment in "What would you erect for Bocock?" in the context of Sabean's to-scale bust. Incidentally, Brian has hired a LOT of busts.
After this conversation
I never ever want to hear the words "bust" and "erect" in conjunction with the word "Sabean" again.
Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Mar 21, 2008 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Well if BriBri ever got a PhD (pretty huge...)
Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Mar 21, 2008 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
It's going to cost them Sanchez
As valuable as Molina is for our young pitchers, he will not be around when this team is competitive again, so they might as well get some value in return for him now. The problem in getting Kotchman is that the Giants were already prepping Villalona for 1B, albeit for 3 years from now, so you would be trading a SP and your starting catcher for possibly a stop-gap 1B.
Having said that, Kotchman would be a solid, young 1B playing good defense with a good bat. If we could get him and Mathis for Molina and Sanchez, I would do it. I hate to lose Sanchez, but Correia would still be here, Palmer may be a keeper, and Misch would still be around as well.
As others have said, the Angels probably don't do this deal without Sanchez, so it all comes down to whether or not you want to fill your 1B hole by losing Sanchez and a costly but solid starting catcher who doesn't figure in their future anyway.
"Palmer may be a keeper"
...if you mean 'may' as in "Mitt Romney may be President next year" or "the Giants may win the division this year" then yes, Matt Palmer may be a keeper.
He's Ryan Jensen (plus a few pounds); he'd fit in fine as the #5 starter on the 2002 Giants, as long as he didn't start for the 2003 Giants. So, "if" we're sure we can drop him in 2009 in favor of another starter (Pereira?, Misch?, Valdez?, Sosa?), then fine, we can keep Palmer and trade Sanchez away.
I just don't see that all working out in our favor. I'm with Buck Henry on this one; Kotchman would be a stopgap improvement, but we're all hoping Angel is our 1B in 2011 or 2012 (except DrB who still hopes he's the 3B). Is that worth trading Sanchez? I just don't know.
Your 2011 SF Giants: the 2008 Augusta Greenjackets!
Why would the Angels want Sanchez?
The reason they need a starting pitcher NOW, is due to injuries to Lackey and Escobar. They do not need a young prospect who might become a good starting pitcher in a year or 2 years time. Not to the point where they would trade a good young MLB 1b.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
I like it...
I would trade Molina and Sanchez for Kotchman and Mathis for sure. I really like Kotchman, and I think that if he can stay healthy, he is just waiting to break out. I think that he is seriously undervalued, and could realistically be one of the top 10-12 1B in baseball with just a little luck and health.
Also, Mathis has definitely flamed out as a prospect, but he was once a top prospect, and guys like him are exactly who I want Sabean to be taking chances on, which is something that he has seemed reluctant to do to this point. You never know, maybe Mathis reaches his potential, and becomes a league average starting catcher.
If Sabean's true goal is to "get younger and win games" this is probably the best he can do to try to accomplish both of those goals at the same time. I say go for it. Molina sucks and isn't worth much to us, and Sanchez still hasn't put it together, and plays a position in which we have somewhat of a surplus.
D
Giants, Angels and White Sox
Is there a three-way deal in there somewhere for these three teams to make a deal to satisfy one another. Some of the possible pieces:
Giants
Molina
Durham
OFs
Ps
Angels
Kotchman
Morales
Napoli
Mathis
OFs
IFs
White Sox
Konerko
Crede
I like BMoney a lot and adding a new catcher to work/learn our pitching staff at this point of spring is not optimal.
this deal needs to get worked out
kotchman would be a great addition because he is young (we need), a 1B (we need), great potential (we need and dont have in terms of hitting). Giving up Sanchez should be totally fine, we have a surplus of great pitchers in our system, misch can become a 4 or 5 starter which is what sanchez will become.
In terms of Big V what if he takes longer than 2010 and 2011 to come up? we would have kotchman. Kotchman would give us insurance, he has potential and could turn out to be a great player, then we would have a surplus of great hitting at 1B when Big V comes up, that gives us a great trading chip to complete our team that will compete to fill a hole we have
SABEAN QUIT BEING A PUSSY AND GET THIS DEAL DONE
"But if he's swinging at real flies, well, in that case there are two definite solutions: 1) Fresno 2) Ritalin." - howtheyscored

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