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Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Vets

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/03/starks-latest-d.html#comments

I am pretty upset to see Davis and Merkin on that list, hopefully they can somehow get rid of a veterans instead

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
I am an idiot, get rid of a veteran or veterans

by sfgiants114 on Mar 10, 2008 8:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
Get rid of a grip of veterans.
Get rid of a cancer of veterans.
Get rid of an anchor of veterans.
Aaron "Swag" Rowand

by victor frankenstein on Mar 10, 2008 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
The field guide lists a legion of veterans.

by 2X2L on Mar 10, 2008 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
Hella veterans?
Barry Zito: Throws until there's nothing left -- which is usually around the 3rd inning. Barry's a GAMER!!!

by Woody Wins on Mar 10, 2008 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
What if it turns out that some of these older guys are gamers?  I'd hate to de-gamerfy this roster just to see some younger kids get AB's.

by biff pocoroba on Mar 11, 2008 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shoppingu
Ah shit, really? I was hoping Rajai would stick around. And I know a lot of you here were waiting on Merkin.
Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Mar 10, 2008 8:19 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Shoppingu
While I generally still kind of consider this stuff to be "non-news" (as in "Gee, the Giants have veterans on the trading block? That completely takes me by surprise!"), it is vaguely disturbing to see Davis and Merkin on that list. I imagine Valdez has been on the trade block pretty much non-stop since his original injury, so I'm not surprised to see his name actually pop up now that he's finally driving his value in the right direction again. As Davis goes, he's not really any more of a liminal prospect than Lewis, Ortmeier, Frandsen, Velez, etc., and he's actually the only one who plays well into this "speed and defense" marketing hoo-ha (Velez = speed, Ortmeier = defense, Davis = speed + defense), so it's pretty surprising to see his name come up rather than, say, a Lewis or a Velez. It's also probably a minor sign that much of Davis's perceived value to the FO comes from not being Matt Morris rather than being a guy who they think can contribute long term. The good news at least is that they might not be wrong. Then again, it could mean absolutely nothing.

I do kind of wish that Valdez getting back in shape would help take him off the radar since we kind of need as much high level pitching help as possible, but shopping him while his value is higher is probably not a bad thing either way.

Still, in general I do continue to think "non-news."

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Mar 10, 2008 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Shoppingu
Well I'll admit I just plain like Rajai and if he was traded, it would be a good move for the team. I developed an attachment to the guy is all.

It's more of a shame to let Merkin go, especially since he looks like he might be coming back for real.

Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Mar 10, 2008 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Shoppingu
Ortmeier = defense???

Did he fix the hole in his 1B glove?

I'm an ESPN Insider!

by The Thrill on Mar 10, 2008 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Shoppingu
Well I had to pick somebody.
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Mar 10, 2008 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
While keeping Rajai would be nice he is 27...I mean do we honestly think we will be contending With Sabean in the next few years.  Merkin is 26...so I guess the guys are re-tooling for future years to come.  We either need to get the tools ready for next season 09 or 2010 and beyond.
visit my blog and i may start writing good articles again.

by Scronjsn11 on Mar 10, 2008 9:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
if we can get some solid young upside in return, then by all means ship them out, 26 and 27 may be young by our standards but theyre reaching their peak years already and have very little major league experience

by Mike on Mar 10, 2008 9:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve

It must really suck to be Brian Sabean.   I mean, imagine how pathetic a team would have to be to take a player - ANY PLAYER - the Giants don't want.

I mean, make a list of Giants AA and up and rank them in order of guys you actually want.

Now, drop off the top 2.  That's the Lincecainium, you don't want to be messing with that stuff.

Aaron Rowand is probably 3... and he was just signed to a "market value" contract, so it's highly unlikely anyone really wants him more than we did.  We'll call him worth zero.

Who else?  Sanchez?  Misch?  Fred Freakin' Lewis?  Kevin Correria?  Brian Wilson?   I guess that those guys are all "keepers".

Lowry I guess was worth something.. but that was pre-surgery, so now he's just a flyer for someone with an open roster spot.

But the rest... if they were waived, would anyone pick up their salary? (And yes, I realize that's not how it works)

by zenbitz on Mar 10, 2008 9:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
What the fuck...How is trading our young players gonna help anything...

by boonitez on Mar 10, 2008 9:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
they are out of options maybe?  they are in a playing time crunch with some "similar" players?  i mean, they could be traded for other young players... Davis + something for Teahan for instance?

i mean, these are players without options, and without that much youth left...

by kennv on Mar 11, 2008 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
Yeah, but I'd prioritize all my older not-good players first.  Valdez is good I don't think we should chuck him quite yet.  He's havin a good spring so far.  Tossing him while he has no value would be stupid...

by boonitez on Mar 11, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
Why are we trying to trade our 'young players'?

BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF THEM.

Young does NOT equal good.  It certainly doesn't equal great.  And it does not promise either in the future.

We're trying to trade them so we don't lose one and get nothing back.

This is especially true in the bullpen.  Has anyone been paying attention?  We have more guys out of options than we do spots.  What the heck do you people want...to hold onto all of them until the roster gets to the point that we have to put one on waivers and lose them for nothing?

As much as you people want to see it, cutting Kline isn't happening.  Or Chulk.  Or Roberts.  Or Zito.  Cutting assets, even poor ones, is bad asset management.  It's the way even good owners go bankrupt.

So get what you can now.  If you can't trade Davis...trade Lewis.  But seriously, what good will it be to the team to keep both and not have Schierholtz getting playing time?  If you can't trade Merkin, trade Threets or anyone else.  But get something rather than lose them for nothing.

SFDugout.com is BACK! See the SFDugout.com Top 50 Giants Prospects.

by BruteSentiment on Mar 10, 2008 9:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
Agreed on all counts.  Keeping fifteen middling 26-year-olds isn't getting us anywhere fast.

by onlxn on Mar 10, 2008 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Recongnising
that a poor "asset" is not actually an asset is called knowing what "sunk costs" are.

by rfloh on Mar 11, 2008 5:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
If we trade Valdez, and Kline ends up on the roster. I'll be pissed.

If we trade Davis, and Winn and Roberts (and their fat contractual obligations for 2009) stick around, I'll be pissed.

I'm just sayin'.

Maybe Chulk is the one that should go. While he is in his peak years (age wise), nothing he's done at the major league level before '07 indicates that he'll be a good ML reliever. His '07 was pretty solid. Selling high isn't Sabean's style though.

The 2008 San Francisco Giants: Years of neglected rebuilding, continued.

by jasomack on Mar 11, 2008 12:27 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
I've got no problem keeping Kline.  He's just a year away from a fine performance as an effective reliever, and relievers get older later in life, if you know what I mean.  Kline's the type of guy who, if he bounces back, will be worth something at the deadline.

Valdez, meanwhile, is a recovering TJ who has always been inconsistent, and will be lost for nothing (that's a promise) if he gets waived...as will any of the four other guys.

If we lose someone for nothing, I'll be pissed.

Winn and Roberts aren't tradable as it is.  What's more, even if they were, Davis is f'ing blocked by Rowand.  Keeping him on the bench won't help this team in the long run.  We have too many outfielders, and while I'd love to see the old guy (Roberts) go, Davis is a pointless man to have after Rowand's acquisition.

SFDugout.com is BACK! See the SFDugout.com Top 50 Giants Prospects.

by BruteSentiment on Mar 11, 2008 3:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
How is Kline "a year away from a fine performance"? His WHIP in 2006 was 1.52! That's, um, terrible. His ERA was a respectable 3.66, but clearly that was just the result of good pitching by the guys who came in after him, since he wasn't getting outs himself.

Kline's last good year was 2004, when he absolutely killed lefties. Since then, lefties have started hitting better against him to the point where last year he was equally lousy against guys on either side of the plate. In short, I see no reason why he should be expected to "bounce back." For this reason, he can't be traded because no one will take his salary (which should give one a clue as to his actual value). In this case, the only sensible course of action for a rebuilding team is to release him, eat his salary, and give his roster spot to a young player who might someday be good.

Randy Winn is definitely tradeable. He has a fairly reasonable contract, and he's a pretty good player. I don't think the Giants could get much for him, but if they really wanted to they could trade him without eating his salary. However, considering he's the second-best hitter on a team that already has a chance to be historically bad offensively, I would be against trading him except for a truly legitimate prospect or corner infielder.

Roberts, you're right, cannot be traded without eating most of his salary, which the Giants should (but won't) consider doing. I think keeping Davis as a 4th or 5th outfielder and dumping Roberts (even at a loss) would be preferable to trading Davis unless something good came back (which I don't think is at all likely).

by taliesin on Mar 11, 2008 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

dumping Kline and Roberts
Well said, and well-reasoned!
"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Mar 11, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
The things you say about Kline's 2006 sound good...except that Kline finished out innings 45 of the 72 games he pitched, nearly 2/3rds.  Heaven forbid that Kline be able to strand his own runners, and not have that credit go to the pitcher who started the next inning with the bases empty.

At any rate, I could be wrong about Kline staying on the team...recent reports indicate the Giants will not be opposed to releasing him sometime this spring.

SFDugout.com is BACK! See the SFDugout.com Top 50 Giants Prospects.

by BruteSentiment on Mar 11, 2008 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
One other stat to add: Kline's 18 holds was t-11th in the NL in 2006, and t-21st in the majors.

Holds may be a debatable stat (no less so than 'wins'), but out of approximately 210 relievers in the majors, being in the top 10%, that is more than 'fine' in my book.

SFDugout.com is BACK! See the SFDugout.com Top 50 Giants Prospects.

by BruteSentiment on Mar 11, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
As mentioned above, i wouldn't worry too much about it, it's somewhat non-news. We may be shopping people, but that doesn't mean they're going to go (and in the case of the veterans highly unlikely they'll be moved)

However those 2 aren't particularly surprising candidates, they may be young players, but they're both at positions where we have a surplus of young players (Relief pitching & Outfielders)

Neither are the best of the surplus, Davis has less upside than Schierholtz & Lewis. Valdez whilst pitching well so far, is still somewhat of an unknown, coming back from injury.

If we could get a young player at a position of need (such as corner infield) or at a different stage (someone who's further away, with options or with more upside) then that'd be good management.

by GiantFan on Mar 11, 2008 4:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin
I look at Merkin Valdez as the potential next Joe Nathan. I'm not saying he's precisely that talented, just that I think he's about to establish himself in the bigs, and this would be exactly the wrong time to trade him to another team.

Ideally, I'd use him in the 8th inning this year. If he fails, then yes, his value as a trade chip plummets. But, in his case, I'd rather take the chance that we have a good young(ish) reliever than trade him for whatever Brian Sabean thinks he can shake loose from another team. Part of that is Merkin's potential, and part of that is my low opinion of Sabean's ability to identify young hitting talent (and I'm assuming we'd trade him for hitting - otherwise, why?).

"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Mar 11, 2008 6:22 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin
I've been Nathanizing about Valdez in my day dreams recently too... long time prospect, finally back from injury... read to establish himself... and get traded for some Molina brother in a few months.  (at the end, the dream always turns to nightmare.)

by the way, your signature fits perfectly with your post here.

by kennv on Mar 11, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
Does anyone know how fast Merkin is throwing right now in ST?

I thought I heard him in the mid-90's on the radio but I can't be sure, I may have made that up. I had heard earlier reports before ST that he wasn't throwing that hard.

by xanthan on Mar 11, 2008 6:47 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Giants shopping Davis and Merkin along with Ve
When I saw him, I'd say he was consistently between 88-92- but since there was no radar gun going, I really couldn't give you a perfect answer.  Can't always trust those guns they report on the radio or at the stadium, either.

He's pumping a lot of fastballs to lower level competition.

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by Anticon23 on Mar 11, 2008 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

96 mph
Merkin is throwing like his SnatchWig is on fire.

by Moggeee on Mar 11, 2008 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: No untouchables
Except in the "caste" system case, in which case "All untouchables"

by zenbitz on Mar 11, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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