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Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

by Dan from NM on Feb 8, 2008 8:31 PM PST Comment 36 comments

I often daydream about the Giants plowing an obscene amount of money into amateur talent. Say $10 million for draft bonuses and $5 million for international players. You could build a farm system pretty quickly for the price of one year of Rowand or Zito.

The Giants aren't going to win anything in the bigs this year, and their minor-league system is in the bottom third, according to Baseball America. My one hope for the off-season: bringing in high-ceiling talent at any level.

The Giants have been unable to trade for Edwin Encarnacion or Andy LaRoche or Lastings Milledge or any of the advanced players I dreamed of.

I've slowly turned my eyes to the international market. The Giants' most promising prospect from Latin America, Angel Joseph, was unable to sign because of a paperwork problem.

Now this make my heart go pitter-patter: Baseball American reports that Edward Salcedo, the top Dominican prospect available, has rejected the Giants' offer of $2.5 million. I hope negotiations aren't over.

Salcedo is a right-handed-hitting shortstop with first-round tools. He's represented by Boras. It's hard to know whether he'd be worth the money, but, damn, if any team needs to take risks and spend money on youngsters, it's our Giants.

Cleveland is supposedly in the lead for Salcedo, but I'm hoping the Giants push for the kid. Also, I've had four beers and my judgment is bad. Links:

http://www.perfectgame.org/players/playerprofile.aspx?ID=123749
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=743
http://mvn.com/mlb-indians/2008/02/06/the-myth-of-edward-salcedo/

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

"I've had four beers and my judgement is bad"

I think it's significant that you didn't say "I've had four beers, so my judgement is bad."

:P

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 8, 2008 9:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

I've watched these Giants for three cruddy years.

I've often been driven to drink four or more beers, and my judgment has never been more precise.

by Moggeee on Feb 9, 2008 12:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

Conjunctions get me every time. I even forgot the comma.

Lyle'd trust Sabes to build his offense before he'd trust me to guard his case of beer.

by Dan from NM on Feb 9, 2008 3:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Amy Winehouse can't type either

Dan, since I'm a teetotaler, I would gladly trust you to guard my case of beer!

"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Feb 12, 2008 6:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

I'm just glad the Giants are involved in negotiations for Salcedo. Like you said I hope they will up their offer and make a solid push to sign him.

by Cainer on Feb 8, 2008 9:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

He is 16 years old, has power, and throws 93 mph from short to first? Yes please!!!

by m34josh on Feb 8, 2008 9:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

What I like is that the other team interested in Salcedo is the Indians, a team that clearly knows how to scout talent.

by rotorueter on Feb 8, 2008 9:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Indians persuing Salcedo

There may be a subtle factor at play here that benefits us; can't you just imagine the Cleveland brass thinking "Wait second, if the Giants are interested in this kid, maybe he's not so great after all..."

"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Feb 9, 2008 8:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

and yes, that should be PURSUING....

"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Feb 9, 2008 8:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Indians persuing Salcedo

If Cleveland thinks that, then maybe they'll back out and we can jump in and sign him.:)

by raisingcain on Feb 9, 2008 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

I'm encouraged that they made an offer. It shows that they are at least trying to sign international talent and Angel V wasn't a fluke.

by DrBGiantsfan on Feb 8, 2008 9:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

But what about Angel Joseph? Did the "paperwork problem" kill any chance of signing him? Did he sign elsewhere?

by crazy crab on Feb 8, 2008 10:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

I think the paperwork problem was an immigration issue, which would mean he couldn't sign anywhere else until it was resolved either. Hopefully we can keep some deal in place until things can be worked out, even if that means waiting a year or 2, because this guy is meant to be a real talent.

by Mr Scruff on Feb 9, 2008 1:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

I actually understood that it was a minor violation of MLB signing rules which would mean that he's dead to us at this point.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Feb 9, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

The quote that I found, apparently from one of Baseball America's team reports (and I just found this a minute ago in the sfgiants.com message boards) looks like this:

"The Giants were unable to complete the signing of 16-year-old outfielder Angel Joseph because of a paperwork snafu. Joseph, who would have received a $350,000 bonus, is the son of undocumented Haitian immigrants who live in the Dominican Republic."

That was from around the first week of January.

This quote makes it seem like his parents being undocumented is connected to the paperwork snafu, but that's just because the two sentences are so close to each other. In actuality, this leaves open that the "snafu" could still be anything at all. I'm pretty sure I saw that it was an immigration problem with his parents, but I can't find that anywhere at all right now.

So, in other words, I don't know, but I felt like providing a meaningless contribution.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 9, 2008 3:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

I heard it had something to do with his parents being Haitian, I know nothing more than that!

by Mr Scruff on Feb 9, 2008 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

Give him whatever he's asking for. I'm just going to pretend I did some shady math and say I decided it was worth it. Hrr, hmm, carry the two, yeah. First round talent without using the first round pick? Worth a little extra. There's no good major league talent to throw the money at this year, so why not?

Southern California: Water thieves and Dodgers fans.

by jasomack on Feb 8, 2008 11:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

I'm glad they're making big offers for these players now. I hope they go all out to get this one, but it does show that they'll continue to attempt to sign the top international prospects.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Feb 9, 2008 4:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

I agree. When I first read that this kid was probably going to sign with the Indians, I was angry that the Giants spend nothing on their team besides Rowand, and then weren't pursuing top amateur talent like Salcedo. Now that I see they're trying, I feel better about the organization.

2008 Rolaids Relief winner: Randy Messenger

by rxmeister on Feb 9, 2008 5:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

"I had 4 beers and my judgment is bad." I think you're just saying this to make the rest of us look bad. I don't drink beer at all, and I thought the Matt Williams trade was the stupidest @$#@ing thing I'd ever seen. Oh, yeah, and I thought that Bush vs. Gore was irrelevant b/c it was just two inconsequential centrists.

I got one word for you: "youneverknow"

by senorvegas on Feb 9, 2008 10:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

Your idea that the Giants spend the money they have saved by not being able to sign or trade for anybody (aside from Aaron Rowand) be used to acquire young talent to develop is so obvious that the Giants likely will overlook it. :)

by sharksrog on Feb 9, 2008 1:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

if you do nothing to improve the team, you better have yourself a plan to explain yourselves. Signing young talent is actually ingenious. You can lose all you want and the fans will still give you a few years before they call for your heads. Eventually though, those teenagers are going to have to be stars, or you've basically thrown away the next decade.

2008 Rolaids Relief winner: Randy Messenger

by rxmeister on Feb 9, 2008 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Having a plan...

And yet, Mark, haven't we essentially thrown away the past decade (certainly '96 to '06) in our draft choices? I don't see how this could be much worse. No one in the organization seems to have (or to have had; we'll see how Noonan, Fairely, et al develop) any eye for US hitting talent. Maybe they can spot it better in another language/continent. Not likely, but maybe. At least they haven't proven they can't do it.

"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Feb 9, 2008 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Having a plan...

True, but there was a different philosophy in place at the time. Not only that, but the success of the team ensured that they would be picking at the ends of rounds and not in the beginning. The dumping of number one picks and selecting signability over talent are inexcusable errors though. Although we didn't win a world championship in that timespan, you have to give them credit for providing us with a winning team that was certainly capable of winning it all. It's hard to point the finger at who is the one to blame for the predicament they are in right now. Sabean passed on the draft in favor of veterans, but I'm sure if had his druthers he would have chosen high payroll AND tons of money in development. He only turned his back on the draft because he was given limited funds to work with. The blame has to go to ownership on this count. Sabean gets the blame only for taking their "surround Bonds with veterans" edict by surrounding Bonds with lousy veterans.

2008 Rolaids Relief winner: Randy Messenger

by rxmeister on Feb 9, 2008 2:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Having a plan...

He could have maximized the funds he had to work with by not jumping the gun on extensions/contracts for players like Reuter, Winn, Durham, Vizquel and Bernard, players who were all signed into years where any outside observer could question if they could repeat their past performances. Then there are the players who could have been replaced by anyone with a pulse, like Shawon Dunston, for cheaper. I think Sabean could have easily saved $1-$3m a year and focused a little more on the draft.
You're totally right about where we picked from 98-on though, and the dumping of picks. Dumping first round picks is completely ridiculousinsane for a team without access to top 10 talent as it was. They should have been maximizing their value in the draft, not dumping it.

Southern California: Water thieves and Dodgers fans.

by jasomack on Feb 9, 2008 4:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Having a plan...

You can make that argument, then look at a team like the Padres that has had Top 10-15 picks during the time the Giants were successful and picked such fabulous players like Jake Geautreax, Matt Bush and Tim Stauffer. Just because you can pick higher, if you don't have the funds at the time, you can waste it just the same.

If Sabean doesn't pursue young talent aggressively in all fields and wastes the one real surplus he has in the teams young pitching, he can sail, sail away and go try to find where the S.S. Minnow is.

it's always noonan somewhere

by sectionop92 on Feb 9, 2008 4:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

Last year there were 3 international free agent players above all others I really wanted us to pursue. 2 position players and 1 pitcher. The pitcher, Teheran, signed for the Braves. I've no idea whether we made a play for him or not, but apparently most teams did. However, the 2 position players were Angel Joseph and Edward Salcedo, both considered "1st round talent" at prime positions. We signed the former (although it seems now to have fallen through due to matters beyond our control) and it appears we made an offer, albeit a rejected one, to the latter. If we manage to get him with an improved offer, I'll be delighted - a reason to smile in a dismal offseason!

by Mr Scruff on Feb 9, 2008 2:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

I'm still disappointed in the Giants international scouting. It seems they've signed one top player in the last few years, and this year almost signed another (due to paperwork crap that may have been out of their control), and come up short for this year's top talent. The Yankees, Mets, BoSox, and Mariners are nabbing multiple talented prospects. I just want us to do SOMETHING better than other teams. I guess we develop young pitching, and that's better than nothing.

Southern California: Water thieves and Dodgers fans.

by jasomack on Feb 9, 2008 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

The teams you mentioned have a lot more money to burn plus more sizeable international scouting presences. Because of Magowan's lack of interest in a full minor system for a good portion of the 90's, this organization's growth was retarded. Sabean has to let that scout in him make the money he has work for him. If he has a shot at a star, make the run at him. If not, go get the second and third tier options. Just get the necessary talent! It's not like the well is empty if one or two players don't sign with you. Plus a presence in Venezuela would help as well.

it's always noonan somewhere

by sectionop92 on Feb 10, 2008 8:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

We have more money than that. Fuck 3 mil we should go 4-4.5. We might as well do something that could help us in the long run as long as our payroll's going to be a little lower than usual with some of the expensive contracts now off of it. I know he plays in the Dominican Leagues, which makes him somewhat mysterious, but it's tough for a 16-year-old to play at the same level as the adults. I think we should try to beat out the Indians for him.

by boonitez on Feb 9, 2008 4:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

The problem with raising the bar is that eventually you'll hit a huge bust, and there you have a large waste of funds.

I'm not against raising the bar, but $3.5 mil is the absolute most I'd go for. Signing a 16 year old to such a lucrative bonus is never really a wise idea, is it?

Also, keep in mind that we didn't have the highest bid for Villalona. Money might not even be that big of an issue as much as making a good connection with the player.

Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by Anticon23 on Feb 9, 2008 7:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

+1. Money is probably a factor here since Bora$$ is representing this dude. Remember the bitchfit Bora$$ pitched last year about the Villalona signing?

Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Feb 9, 2008 8:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

Sabes should spend the 4-5 mil he was going to give to Pedro on this kid--or another, or the draft, whatever. The Giants are going to suck next year, regardless. Please let them have a good team within the next ten years.

by billiejameshayes on Feb 10, 2008 2:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

With a Top 5 pick, they will probably be spending close to this amount on the first round pick alone.

SFDugout.com is BACK! Top 50 Prospects is starting...but, why are there two #50's?

by BruteSentiment on Feb 10, 2008 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

MLBtraderumors has the Yankees in on him too, but Cleveland still out in front

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/120263583995250.xml&coll=2

Bottom of page one, continued on page two

by m34josh on Feb 10, 2008 1:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Dominican Rejects Giants' Offer

Who wants a Dominican reject anyway?

by biff pocoroba on Feb 11, 2008 11:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

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