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BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects

09_tiny by Anticon23 on

Five-Star Prospects
1. Angel Villalona, 3B/1B

Four-Star Prospects
2. Henry Sosa, RHP

Three-Star Prospects

  1. Tim Alderson, RHP
  2. Madison Bumgarner, RHP
  3. Wendell Fairly, OF
  4. Nick Noonan, SS/2B
  5. Nate Schierholtz, OF
Two-Star Prospects
  1. John Bowker, OF
  2. Pablo Sandoval, C
  3. Clayton Tanner, LHP
  4. Charlie Culberson, SS/2B
Just Missing: Wilber Bucardo, RHP; Manny Burriss, SS; Eugenio Velez, UT

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
Really shows how much the '07 draft put new life into the system.

I love the Sosa ranking. I wish Tanner was bumped into the 3-star rating, but I understand he's young, doesn't have crazy velocity, or overpowering stuff. He's a way off but he's one of my favorite lower-pitching prospects.

by xanthan on Feb 25, 2008 10:03 AM PST   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
Oh, and I'm really excited to see what Fairley is going to do this year. I think he could either take off or take a good bit of time to develop. His physical tools are very, very interesting.

by xanthan on Feb 25, 2008 10:06 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
So were Calvin Murray's.  And Dante Powell's.  And...oh screw it.
Giants Cove: You'll be a better person for reading

by Chulk on Feb 25, 2008 10:23 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
NO, No, no.

Cynicism is for the big club, only.  ONLY!

vote Dan Ortmeier for Will Clark, apr. 4th at your local polling place

by nick on Feb 25, 2008 10:40 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
why do you suppose Sosa gets a higher rating than alderson
Frandsen for 3B (til July 08)

by NeifiChicken on Feb 25, 2008 10:21 AM PST   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
More of a minor league track record, I would imagine.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Feb 25, 2008 10:26 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
He pitched a full season whereas Alderson only threw 5 innings? Alderson could move fast, but Sosa is already in A+ ball and could end the year in AA ball if he has good success in A+ ball.

by xanthan on Feb 25, 2008 10:28 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
Also, his fastball tops out in the high 90's, whereas Alderson and Bumgarner current throws in the, what, mid-90's?
Hoping tk's recovery is faster than Emmanuel Burriss [BA's Giants fastest baserunner 2008] going from first to third!

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Feb 26, 2008 4:42 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

BA Scouting Reports
Alderson:  Fastball sits in the low 90's and tops out at 94 mph.

Bumgarner:  Fastball works at 92-94 mph and hits 97 on occasion.

by DrBGiantsfan on Feb 27, 2008 7:03 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Addendum
BA on Sosa:  Sosa pitches consistently in the mid 90's and tops out at 97 mph on his fastball.

by DrBGiantsfan on Feb 27, 2008 7:04 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Do mine eyes deceive me?
Every position represented? Sweet Baby Jeebus- Hallelujah!
***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Feb 25, 2008 10:28 AM PST   0 recs

Re: Do mine eyes deceive me?
I just wish we had a promising young manager on the rise. And for that matter, general manager.
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 25, 2008 10:50 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Do mine eyes deceive me?
Omar!
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Feb 25, 2008 12:47 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Do mine eyes deceive me?
Here's hoping Andy D'Alessio becomes the Henry Sosa of 2008.
it's always noonan somewhere

by sectionop92 on Feb 25, 2008 7:29 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

D'Alessio
Amen!
"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Feb 26, 2008 6:07 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
If talent continues to get better for 5-7 and they make it into the starting lineup around the same time as the Big V, things could be very rosie. Imagine...
  1. Velez
  2. Noonan
  3. Fairley (lets say he develops the power)
  4. Villalona
  5. Rowand
  6. Schierholtz

by OrangeJesus on Feb 25, 2008 10:43 AM PST   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
I was disappointed to see neither Mad Bum nor Timmy Two as four-star prospects -- particularly given that I assume Rick Porcello, available when both Mad Bum and Timmy Two were chosen, is a five-star prospect, one that some feel was the best pitching prospect taken in the draft.

I was also disappointed that Jackson Williams wasn't on the list at all, given that he was drafted ahead of Charles Culberson and that the Giants could have taken outfield prospect Kyle Russell (who has remained unsigned) instead.

I was also a bit surprised that an observer as sharp as I believe Kevin Goldstein to be rated Manny Burriss and particularly Eugenio Velez as barely missing the top 10.

That he had Nate Schierholtz ranked only 7th I thought was appropriate given what I believe to be a fairly low ceiling for Nate.  I was encouraged, however, that Nate said his top priority this winter was having the discipline to get more pitches to drive.  If he is highly successful in that endeavor, I feel it could raise his ceiling by a substantial amount.

And I guess the most encouraging thing was that Goldstein felt Henry Sosa was deserving of a four-star rating.  I don't think Henry was even ON Goldstein's list last year, was he?

by sharksrog on Feb 25, 2008 10:55 AM PST   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
I, too, am encouraged by Nate trying wait for better pitches. It'd really be special if he could turn that patience into an extra walk every 30 ABs or so.
The 2008 San Francisco Giants: Years of neglected rebuilding, continued.

by jasomack on Feb 25, 2008 12:10 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
I doubt the stathead opinion of Jackson Williams Was A Huge Overdraft has changed, considering he's shown no hitting in the minors.
Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Steve Kline is pretty okay. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base.

by groug on Feb 25, 2008 12:26 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
Take a look at his hitting before and after he suffered a fractured bone in his hand in late July.  He hit five home runs in 86 at-bats before the injury, and slugged a .258 mark in the month after that.

There's some hidden power in Williams.  He won't be a contact hitter, but if he can develop the power to go with the defense, that's a good catcher.

Give him a chance to play, then judge him.

SFDugout.com is BACK! Top 50 Prospects is starting...but, why are there two #50's?

by BruteSentiment on Feb 25, 2008 12:31 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
I'm not passing judgement.  I'm saying why it shouldn't be surprising that BP has a low opinion of someone of whom they never thought highly.  I'm not hugely aware of how he's done other than Not Being Nick Noonan or Angel Villalona.  And I'm only hopeful for them because I Need Some Hope For Offense At Any Point In The Future, Dammit.

But when it comes to projecting players in rookie ball/ssA/A-, I might as well throw a dart against the wall because i don't know anything.

Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Steve Kline is pretty okay. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base.

by groug on Feb 25, 2008 12:37 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
I personally think his hitting is on par with his defense.  I as well as a lot of observers and players for SK last year feel that he was not the best defensive catcher on the team.   LOTS of passed balls.  Great arm.  
Adopted father of Brian Bocock, Brad Boyer, Sharlon Schoop, Shane Jordan and Jeremiah Luster.

by RichH on Feb 25, 2008 1:17 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Adoption
RichH appears to be the Angelina Jolie of MCC adopters.
"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Feb 26, 2008 6:09 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adoption
LOL!

These are all the players that I've hosted during their time in SK.

Adopted father of Brian Bocock, Brad Boyer, Sharlon Schoop, Shane Jordan and Jeremiah Luster.

by RichH on Feb 26, 2008 8:15 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adoption
Well, Rich, kudos to you indeed. Your adoptions are more real than ours.

Okay, so spill the beans. Who do you predict will eventually make the Giants, based on your observations. Who should we place our hopes on? We're looking for juicy inside stuff, veteran savviness, warrior spirit, late-night pizza parties, whatever. Whattayagot?

"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Feb 26, 2008 9:21 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adoption
Well, Bocock is by far one of the best beer pong players I've ever seen. I beat them all in old school quarters though.  

Seriously though, Bocock is 1st on the field and last to leave.  It's been mentioned before that if he gets his bat going he'll be a force to reckon with.  He is the best shortstop I've seen come through here in quite some time.  Schoop is not far behind and hit the ball hard last year.  Burris is probably a better hitter with more speed but his defense doesn't measure up.  

Behind the plate, Williams has a lot of potential but as I mentioned earlier he let a lot of balls get by.  The pitchers last year were more comfortable with LaTorre behind the plate, even when Gunther was here for rehab.  

Downs is the real deal.  He really impressed me in that he could play anywhere and was successful.  He flashed some brilliance with the glove. I would also keep an eye on Andrew Davis and Brock Bond.  Both had + defensive skills, we'll have to see how they hit at the higher levels.  

In the outfield, Baker was pretty solid and hit well too with a fair bit of power.  Jordan has all the tools, the only knock being his size.  He is not a power hitter and is only 5'7" but has a ton of range.

Good Dope?

Oh, and for the record, Timmy Franchise is a horrible dancer.  

Adopted father of Brian Bocock, Brad Boyer, Sharlon Schoop, Shane Jordan and Jeremiah Luster.

by RichH on Feb 26, 2008 10:18 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

S-K assessment
Fantastic, Rich. Thanks! Very pleased to hear your assessment of Matt Downs. Your description of Bocock was very enlightening, as well as the overall comparison of the shortstops. And it's hard to imagine a 5'7" CF, but who knows?

Thanks again!!

"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Feb 27, 2008 2:58 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
People who speak of "statheads" or "stats geeks" usually think that these statties don't watch or understand the game.  Usually they couldn't be much further from the truth.

What they don't realize is that most -- including said "statheads" -- believe that the combination of statistical analysis and scouting is better than either of them alone.

Then again, when one has to use a putdown name for someone or someones, that person is likely lacking in proper ammunition with which to argue his point and thus feels he needs to take the shotgun approach.

by sharksrog on Feb 26, 2008 12:20 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
The preferred term is now VORPies, if you please.
2008: The year the Giants begin to stop sucking.

by EliminateMe on Feb 26, 2008 10:41 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
I was disappointed to see neither Mad Bum nor Timmy Two as four-star prospects -- particularly given that I assume Rick Porcello, available when both Mad Bum and Timmy Two were chosen, is a five-star prospect, one that some feel was the best pitching prospect taken in the draft.

Sabean thought differently.

The Giants passed on high school pitchers Rick Porcello and Matt Harvey, clients of high-profile agent Scott Boras. They were widely considered to be among the top 10 pitching prospects in the nation.

Sabean said the Giants simply didn't rate them as highly as the players they picked.

"Obviously if they were highly regarded by us, we'd have picked them," he said. "We looked at the talent first and the agent and the signability second."

http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070608/NEWS/706080408/1010/SPORT01

On a separate note, I really am starting to feel that Sosa is overrated...and I say that even recognizing how surprisingly high he ended up on SFDugout's list.  He is doing it all with the fastball, but is still incredibly raw.  He reminds me much more of a starting Felix Rodriguez than any other pitcher I've seen personally.

SFDugout.com is BACK! Top 50 Prospects is starting...but, why are there two #50's?

by BruteSentiment on Feb 25, 2008 12:27 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
I like the aggressive rankings with Sosa. He's also got a pretty good curve, as I'm sure you know. His development will hinge on his development of a changeup and learning to not always try to blow away guys with the heat.

by xanthan on Feb 25, 2008 12:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
If he has a pretty good curve, I didn't see it.  He has a curve, absolutely, but it was very rarely close enough to the zone to be an effective pitch.  In the California League, I saw a lot of batters simply let it go by and wait for a fastball in the zone, because they knew he wasn't putting the curve in there.

I agree, the changeup will be the most important pitch for him, but to be a starter and a four-star prospect, he needs at least a third pitch AND a second plus pitch.  I'm not sure I'd take an even-odds bet that he can develop that.

SFDugout.com is BACK! Top 50 Prospects is starting...but, why are there two #50's?

by BruteSentiment on Feb 26, 2008 10:09 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
And, I'd never seen that Sabean quote before. I have to disagree with him. I like Porcello and would have taken him over either Alderson or Bumgarner. I think he could turn out to be special.

by xanthan on Feb 25, 2008 12:52 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
Great to hear you disagree with Sabean. Probably the first I have heard of.
You seeing value in Porcello is great and all but Sabean and company, who by the way have more experience than you, seem to think bumgardner and Alderson will be special. thanks for your opinion though.
I nominate Common Sense as the new GM of the San Francisco Giants.

by fanofvanlandingham on Feb 25, 2008 1:59 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
I can't remember seeing anyone argue that Porcello was not the best high-school pitcher in the country. If Sabean actually had Bumgarner (thanks for your spelling, though) and Alderson ranked higher than Porcello, he was the only one.

He didn't, though. He's just telling a little white lie in order to avoid having to say that the team was unwilling to buck the commissioner's bonus slots.

by Evan on Feb 25, 2008 2:14 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
It seems as if there were Highschool pitchers that were more highly regarded than Bumgarner (thanks for the spelling lesson though) other than Porcello. I don't remember this being my point. I think the point was that dude disagreed with Sabean and I made the point that: no matter how many people think they are better than the Giants scouts, to make an unqualified statement that you disagree with the team's rankings gives you little credibility. Blog or no blog. Thanks for showing your loyalty to said poster though.
I nominate Common Sense as the new GM of the San Francisco Giants.

by fanofvanlandingham on Feb 25, 2008 3:46 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
You seeing value in Porcello is great and all but Sabean and company, who by the way have more experience than you, seem to think bumgardner and Alderson will be special.

Yet another blow for advocates of experience over youth?

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Feb 25, 2008 3:31 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

youth vs. experience
So it would appear, Roger.
"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Feb 26, 2008 6:12 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
One time in elementary school I was doing math problems in a group, and then we discussed them and came up with the right answer.  There was a kid who was held back.  You could say he had more experience in doing 5th grade math.  We disagreed on the answer to a problem.  By this logic, he was automatically right because he had more experience.
Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Steve Kline is pretty okay. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base.

by groug on Feb 25, 2008 3:34 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

On The Other Hand......
What about the kid who bucks the group and turns out to be the only one who was right?  Tidrow and Sabean have been bucking convetional wisdom on pitchers for years and done quite well.

by DrBGiantsfan on Feb 25, 2008 3:41 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: On The Other Hand......
Thank you. That is the point I was trying to make. I got attacked for doing so but you put it in better words. I think that is my problem: articulating my point. I guess I should take a cue from you.
I nominate Common Sense as the new GM of the San Francisco Giants.

by fanofvanlandingham on Feb 25, 2008 3:48 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: On The Other Hand......
Have they? You may well be right, but I can't remember any out-of-the-blue picks they've made ...

by Evan on Feb 25, 2008 3:50 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Out Of The Blue
/Well, Bumgarner and Alderson were hardly "out of the blue" picks.  Matt Cain was widely considered a reach when he was drafted.  Tim Lincecum fell to us for some reason. They weren't afraid to grab him. The majority of our current pitching staff is homegrown.  It's not a perfect track record, but then no one's is.  While they have been terrible at drafting and developing hitters, I trust their judgement on drafting pitchers. If I was going to criticize Sabean and his scouts on last summer's draft, it would be for passing on Jason Heyward or Beau Mills at #10 as I think they are every bit as high ceiling as Bumgarner and we need hitters more than pitchers.  That's not a criticism of Bumgarner who, if we were going to take a pitcher there, was as good a pick as any.

by DrBGiantsfan on Feb 25, 2008 4:28 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Out Of The Blue
I think you're overstating slightly draft day opinion of Cain.  Here's what BA wrote in summary of the 1st round of the draft that day:
There were no true surprise first-round picks. Tennessee high school righthander Matthew Cain (Giants, No. 25) and Maryland shortstop John McCurdy (Athletics, No. 26) received less predraft play than other first-rounders, but both were considered possible sandwich-round targets.

The sandwich round that year was picks #31-41 so taking him at 25 is not that much of a stretch -- not nearly the surprise that Nate Schierholtz was, for instance, and it's certainly not like he was a Matt Bush or anything.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Feb 25, 2008 7:29 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Out Of The Blue
I trust their judgment too; but I think their pitching success is mostly due to (a) old-fashioned scouting, and (b) the sheer quantity of pitchers, rather than outside-the-box scouting. If they'd followed up the Lincecum pick by taking Joba Chamberlain in the supplemental, I could be convinced that they really are pitching visionaries. Of course, we all would have squawked at the time ...

by Evan on Feb 26, 2008 6:13 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Out Of The Blue
Although the Giants could still have taken him at #22 overall, I probably would have taken Rick Porcello when he dropped to #10.  True, the Giants would have had to "gamble" three or four times as much money as they had risked with Tim Lincecum in the 2006 draft at #10, but it is quite possible that with Lincecum and Porcello, the Giants would have had the top #10 back-to-back picks in all of draft history.

Porcello is just a high schooler, of course, so he probably won't pitch in the majors until at LEAST the end of 2009, but with many considering Porcello to be this year's version of Lincecum, can you imagine how impressive it would be to be looking at a future young rotation beginning with Cain, Lincecum and Porcello?  It is possible the Giants could have had three legitimate Cy Young candidates each and every year for a decade.

To me, the Giants -- like most baseball teams -- show a discouraging lack of imagination and foresight.

Believe it or not, entering this year's draft, Porcello would have been ranked by most higher than Lincecum when Tim was entering the 2006 draft.

The good doctor made a good point about hoping that Brian Sabean is that lone voice that is right when all else are wrong.  I certainly hope that is the case -- and I can remember having been there and done that all the way back in the eighth grade, when there were probably others smarter than I but none who was willing to stick his neck out.

But, really, how many times lately has Brian been right and we here at the McCovey Chronicles been wrong?  I wish I needed to take off my shoes to count the times.  I could almost do it with both hands taped to my sides.

by sharksrog on Feb 27, 2008 8:56 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Out Of The Blue
I think it's possible that that Giants will have 4 Cy Young candidates every year:  Cain, Lincecum, Bumgarner and Alderson.

You state that many observors think Porcello is this year's Tim Lincecum.  Would you care to give us a link to who those observers are?  You are doing a little bit of the straw man thing here, Shark.  I agree that Rick Porcello was highly regarded in last year's draft, but I don't recall him being touted by everybody as being head and shoulders better than other guys like Bumgarner, Aumont, Beavan, Alderson, etc.

The Dodgers passed on him at #20.  The Dodgers certainly could afford Porcello's bonus demands if they thought he was so much better than Chris Withrow.  Are you prepared to argue that Logan White has a poor track record in the draft, or that Withrow is head and shoulders above Tim Alderson as a prospect?

There are tons of reasons out there to bang on Brian Sabean, but passing or Rick Porcello would seem to be one of the more trivial ones.

by DrBGiantsfan on Feb 28, 2008 8:21 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Out Of The Blue
The standard scouting report I heard on Porcello last summer was that he was the best HS pitching prospect since -- and with a repertoire comparable to -- Josh Beckett.  

Without commenting on the likelihood of Bumgarner or Alderson's Cy Young chances at this point in their career, I do have to point out again that it's entirely possible that neither will ever be teammates of Cain's even if they do end up in SF's rotation.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Feb 28, 2008 1:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Porcello=Beckett?
Not saying it's not true.  I don't recall that particular comparison or any scouting report saying Porcello was the best pitching prospect in years.  I'd like to see a link.

Of course, Alderson and Bumgarner may never be teammates of Cain. They could fail as prospects, Cain could be traded or injured.  It certainly is possible that they will though.  What a great thought!

by DrBGiantsfan on Feb 28, 2008 2:16 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Porcello=Beckett?
Well, specifically what i'm talking about is the ticking clock to Cain's walk year. The Eric Bedard story seems pretty instructive to me -- the Orioles got much more out of him than the Twins were able to get for Santana and all because they made the decision to move him two years before FA rather than the traditional year before. Other GMs are certain to take note.

Unlike you I don't believe this team has a chance of being competitive; I don't really believe they can compete for 4th place, and I fully expect them to get detroyed in-division games. That means if the organization doesn't improve itself dramatically before or during next year, we're at that magic two year mark and decisions will need ot be made as to how we go forward. Because a competitive guy like Matt who has spoken openly about wanting to be one of the game's greats, isn't going to want to stay in a place where he's only known losing.

My boy ain't fat, he's just big boned. Big bat, too.

by Roger on Feb 28, 2008 2:59 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

This Season
Yeah well, this season could get real ugly real fast.  That may be a blessing in disguise as management might finally come to their senses and realize that they have to start all over.

I know it's just the first exhibition game, but today's game was certainly not encouraging.

I actually don't think the team, as currently constituted, is competetive.  If we added a good 3B and 1B without giving up any current members of the pitching staff, I think it could be competetive.  I don't see that happening though.  Management seems to be determined to go with Ortmeier come hell or highwater.  Crede by himself aint gonna be enough and Ortmeier is much more likely to be a disaster than the firstbaseman of the next 3+ years.

by DrBGiantsfan on Feb 28, 2008 4:53 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: On The Other Hand......
Doc,

I'm not unhappy with either Bumgarner or Alderson, but Porcello has been rated the better talent and if I was drafting, I would have taken him.

I'm happy to have both Madison and Tim in the organization, but Porcello is slightly more advanced. Throws a tick harder, has clean mechanics, has two breaking pitches, and a feel for the change.  

by xanthan on Feb 25, 2008 4:05 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: On The Other Hand......
I wholeheartedly agree.

And seriously, the kid's really 1 of like 4 can't miss prospects in that draft.  Price, LaPorta and Wieters.

Too bad LaPorta didn't get to us.  man, that would be fun.

IT'S BASEBALL IT'S BASEBALL IT'S BASEBALL IT'S BASEBALL!!!

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Feb 25, 2008 4:36 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Let's not forget
Porcello dropped to the 27th pick in the draft.  After the Giants passed on him, 16 other teams did as well, including the Giants again.

Let's hope that this year the Giants play the role of the Tigers, Red Sox and Yankees and jump all over any top prospects who drop in the draft due to signability issues.  They certainly have more financial wherewithal than the teams picking ahead of them:  Rays, Pirates, Royals, and Orioles.

If only Pedro Alvarez would scare teams away and drop to #5...oh please, oh please, oh please.

by baseballjunkie on Feb 25, 2008 5:23 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Let's not forget
The Giants have often seemed to be a step or two behind recently (as in over the past five years).

Last winter they hoped to acquire one of the top free agents -- but instead wound up squandering their money on Barry Zito when they failed to acquire any of the top bats.

One might have thought that a careful examination of the free agent process would have shown the Giants by this winter that the chances of acquiring top talent wasn't great.  IMO they did well to land Aaron Rowand, although I think they were hoping to make even more of a splash.

One would have thought that they would have budgeted money for Porcello in particular and also outfield prospect Kyle Russell (who remains unsigned).  But while the Giants were indeed budgeting more money for draftees and have spent far more money than usual for new young acquisitions the past two years than ever before, they seemed unwilling to make the DRAMATIC change necessary to budget for guys like Porcello and Russell.

Last June the Giants had a chance for an historic draft.  Hopefully they still achieved that level, but IMO their chances would have been far better with Porcello and Russell.

Let's hope that Brian Sabean is right and we're wrong this time -- but how often has that happened recently?

by sharksrog on Feb 27, 2008 8:45 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
You're just jealous that Jenny asked me to the dance instead of you.
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Feb 25, 2008 4:06 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
...aww. :-(
Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Steve Kline is pretty okay. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base.

by groug on Feb 25, 2008 4:41 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
With six picks, the money wasn't going there for Porcello because, IMO, a lot of these executives probably thought he was the best arm, but the dropoff wasn't drastic after him.  MLB teams have a rather robust list of prospects, but they know who they're going to take beforehand and rarely do teams have to go to a third option for a first pick.  This team wanted Wieters and after he was gone, they bumped up Bumgarner.  

But ask yourselves if a combination of any three of Bumgarner, Alderson, Fairley and Noonan makes it to the majors in the next three to four years as starters and Porcello becomes the next Jason Grilli, will we remember this argument?

it's always noonan somewhere

by sectionop92 on Feb 25, 2008 7:49 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
Dude, groug, he's rubbing it in!
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 25, 2008 8:13 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
...I did?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Feb 25, 2008 9:07 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

he said, she said
Hold on, I think we have the makings of a new diary.
"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Feb 26, 2008 6:16 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
I'm not surprised you don't remember, considering all the drugs I gave you.
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Feb 26, 2008 8:15 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
If she doesn't remember it doesn't count!
Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Steve Kline is pretty okay. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base.

by groug on Feb 26, 2008 9:29 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
Brian Sabean has FAR more experience than any of us here.

Sadly, though, many of us have better track records over the past five years.

by sharksrog on Feb 27, 2008 12:35 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
Some of us communicate that via analogy.
Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Steve Kline is pretty okay. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base.

by groug on Feb 27, 2008 9:28 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
What's interesting was that when I saw Sosa at the Futures Game, Felix Rodriguez was the first person that came to mind.
Brian Anderson: I can has spot in Fresno 'pen?

by Anticon23 on Feb 25, 2008 8:25 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
I thought the same thing, they have a very similar build. Very tall and lanky.

by xanthan on Feb 25, 2008 8:34 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: BP's Top 11 Giants Prospects
Brute, would you expect Brian to say that, yes, he liked Porcello better than either Bumgarner and Alderson but the Giants just couldn't afford to sign them?   :)

Have you ever heard any GM in any sport say that they didn't get the player they wanted -- or at least one of the players they wanted?

And when a guy says his team needs to improve its OBP and then signs Jose Vizcaino, should we truly take much that he says seriously?  :)

by sharksrog on Feb 26, 2008 12:22 AM PST to parent up