Nice ESPN article on the Giants

by giants92388 on Feb 20, 2008 11:31 AM PST Comment 36 comments

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2008/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=3254489

Perhaps the Ewing Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Simmons#Ewing_Theory) will apply to the Giants this year.

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Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

That article is mostly just the same fluff Grant was talking about in his story the other day, though I have to say I like Frandsen more now than I did before after reading his quotes there.

Also, http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/story/2008/2/9/201137/1774

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2008 11:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

It's a nice idea, but wasn't this whole "team bonding" idea attempted last year with Zito? Didn't he come out with the "I don't know ask Barry" t-shirt on in Spring '07? Then when he got rocked the first half of '07 he didn't seem as jovial.

Obviously this year could be different without Bonds' presence, but I don't care how well your team chemistry is if you're losing games.

by Fresburg on Feb 20, 2008 12:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

I feel better after reading that article about the possibility of an awesome "WTF, we never saw this coming!!1!" season. Mind you, I don't feel confident about it...just better.

Giant Expectations

by UnleashTheGore on Feb 20, 2008 12:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

I stopped reading at "Barry by the Bay".

I've never heard that saying in the 15 years with Bonds so for Crasnick to drop it like he's down with some sort of hip SF media idiom just makes me want to smash my computer monitor, pick up the glass pieces and jam them into his eyeballs. Or maybe I'll just let this fuel my continued hatred for all things ESPN.

Giants = Jack Crap.

by Woody Wins on Feb 20, 2008 12:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

Extremely well put. The E force is powerful in this one.

by E Ticket on Feb 20, 2008 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

Mkght it be the first corollary to the Ewing Law that applies, the one that states that you may not win witn Patrick Ewing, but without him you don't even have a chance?

by sharksrog on Feb 20, 2008 12:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

Look, we know we're gonna lose 90+ games this year. Might as well buy into this "All for one & one for all" hippy crap & enjoy what you can. If these guys bust their ass off this year then it'll be enjoyable to watch. I don't think Crasnick was implying that the Giants are gonna win anything because they've got a newly found 'warrior spirit' (it's kinda catchy).

I thought the Ewing theory was going to be renamed the Tiki Theory. Or would that be the Tiki Proof?

So relax! Let's have some fun out here! This game's fun, OK? Fun goddamnit.

by ResDog on Feb 20, 2008 1:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

Early last season I suggested the Giants trade every player they had who was making over $1 million in 2007. They traded Armando Benitez and Matt Morris, but through a combination of not wanting to give up too early, a lack of interest by other teams and/or the Giants themselves overvaluing some of their players, the rest remained.

Now we can add Pedro Feliz to the list of the departed, but aren't most of the other remaining veterans merely standing in the way of much-needed change?

Two questions arise:

Couldn't the Giants have gotten young prospects by trading more of their veterans?

If the contracts of some of those veterans render them very difficult to trade, why did the Giants proffer such contracts to them in the first place?

Here is what excites me about the San Francisco Giants: Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Angel Villalona, the six 2007 draft picks among the top 51, and the #5 overall pick in 2008. There are some other pieces I like, but those are arguably the top 10 building blocks they have for the future.

For the Giants the future is, well somewhere out there in the future. :)

by sharksrog on Feb 20, 2008 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Top Ten Building Blocks

I wholeheartedly agree, Roger. We've just got to find a way to get back to the future. Anybody have a spare flux capacitor?

"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Feb 20, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Top Ten Building Blocks

I got about five mixed in with my spare change. The propblem's the 1.21 gigawatts of electricity!

So relax! Let's have some fun out here! This game's fun, OK? Fun goddamnit.

by ResDog on Feb 20, 2008 7:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

This part is pretty good:

For many years, the Giants' organizational philosophy ran on autopilot. While the farm system failed to produce, the Giants papered over their lack of organizational depth by acquiring a Shawon Dunston and an Eric Davis here and an Ellis Burks and a Kenny Lofton there. Why not? They always knew Barry would carry the day.

Now the Giants are in a transitional phase, and general manager Brian Sabean must settle on a plan. Are the Giants ready to hitch their future to Frandsen, Dan Ortmeier, Fred Lewis and other prospects who aren't that highly regarded by the Baseball America set?

While Oakland GM Billy Beane is trading away veterans for prospects en masse across the Bay, the Giants are in a holding pattern. They have seats to fill, bad contracts to endure, and a seeming lack of will to simply rip things up and start fresh.

When even bland national columnists are saying that the organization hasn't got a plan, things are grim.

by Evan on Feb 20, 2008 1:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Not that I'm defending Sabean or anything

but the Giants are not in a similar position as the A's.

The Giants 2 most valuable, and best players are "prospects", unlike Haren and Swisher.

The rest of the regulars, with the exception of Winn, are basically crap with little to no trade value. And even Winn has nowhere close to the value of a Swisher.

by rfloh on Feb 20, 2008 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Not that I'm defending Sabean or anything

Yeah, that comparison doesn't really hold up. On the other hand, the A's did pick up a good young arm for Kotsay, who's nowhere near the player Winn is at this point. And Beane is constantly trolling for youngish players with some ability, like Hannahan and Denorfia, while Sabean still seems uninterested in anyone who's not already eligible for the MLB pension plan.

by Evan on Feb 20, 2008 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

With Kotsay and Kendall

Beane basically bought prospects. He paid for the large majority of the Kotsay and Kendall contracts in return for getting some halfway decent prospects.

Given that Durham was still being run out there last season despite being terrible offensively and defensively, given that Roberts was getting quite a bit of playing time despite struggling badly, Sabean seems to be unwilling to concede his mistakes yet.

I agree with you about Sabean, all I was saying was that Sabean does not really have the players to trade that Beane has / had.

by rfloh on Feb 20, 2008 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: With Kotsay and Kendall

A few things about your posts:

Is Cain really a prospect still? He's had two full years in the majors. Sure, he hasn't reached his potential yet, but how long do you have to be a major leaguer to shed the prospect label?
Building off #1, while not as valuable as Haren, Cain's pretty darn close. (As is Lincecum).
You put "had" down, as well. If we are going into the past, then Sabean certainly had valuable players to trade. Alou, Durham (06), Schmidt were three that came to mind right off the bat.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Feb 20, 2008 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe I should have been clearer

I said that he is a "prospect". He is pretty much the same age as most elite pitching prospects, much touted: Hughes, Buchholzt et al. Yet he is already established. You could sign him to a 6 or 7 year deal, and he would still be only around 30 by the time the deal expires. That does make him far MORE valuable than a Haren.

Trading a "prospect" like Cain does not really make much sense, not unless the other GM wants to be an idiot and basically empty his farm system.

Lincecum is not in the same class yet, but again he is also a "prospect". His value to the Giants is probably more than what he would return in a trade.

As for 2006, I'm referring to the article Evan linked, which is referring to the current situations of the A's and Giants.

by rfloh on Feb 20, 2008 10:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: With Kotsay and Kendall

I would need to examine the situation closely to see whether I like Matt Cain or Dan Haren better, but I can tell you that Dan doesn't come close to Tim IMO. (And I'm sure you're all shocked by that! :)

by sharksrog on Feb 22, 2008 1:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: With Kotsay and Kendall

"Building off #1, while not as valuable as Haren, Cain's pretty darn close. (As is Lincecum)."

I'd say there's a good argument that Cain is actually more valuable than Haren (although probably quite close) He's younger by 4 years, has an extra year under contract & has better career numbers in ERA+, WHIP, K/9, AVG, OBP, SLG. Haren has the edge when it comes to walks & is more a ground ball pitcher, but i don't really see why Cain should be less valuable.

by GiantFan on Feb 22, 2008 2:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: With Kotsay and Kendall

Haren has already had a Cy Young type season. And he is still under contract for several years at a very good price. That's the only difference. If Matt gets to his full potential then he is obviously better than Haren (though Haren's walk rate makes it fairly close). But right now, I'd say Haren is more valuable (if only by a little).

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Feb 22, 2008 11:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

Jerry Crasnick:

creepy pedophile?

Pedro Feliz. He's a Phillie.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Feb 20, 2008 2:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

He looks like Ralph from Happy Days:

Idolizing the Nuschler Face since April 8, 1986 / GIANTSPACE returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Feb 20, 2008 3:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

Yeah. Totally Ralph Mouth

by E Ticket on Feb 20, 2008 7:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

"Funny as a crutch , E."

NL West TempestTeapot...the AL doesn't care WHO you sign.

by victor frankenstein on Feb 20, 2008 9:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Barry Bonds, the helper

I love reading any tidbits about the good parts of Barry as a teammate though. Not surprisingly, that goes underreported. From the article...

Frandsen, who grew up a Giants fan in San Jose, saw a different side of Bonds than most. In August 2007, he was limping along at .211 and running low on confidence. During a doubleheader in Pittsburgh, Bonds cleared out the indoor batting cage at PNC Park, threw batting practice to Frandsen and held a tutorial on hitting.

The routine continued in Atlanta and Florida, with Bonds throwing BP and providing words of encouragement. Frandsen rewarded his buddy with a .367 batting average over the next six weeks, and still feels a kinship with Bonds.

"He got my mind right," Frandsen said. "He even knew things about the way I had hit in the minor leagues. I was like, 'You've got to be kidding.'

"Everybody always wants to make Barry out as the villain, but he was very good with me. Of course, you're going to be intimidated by him just because of how good he is. But we're intimidated by Willie Mays when he walks in here, too. You're in awe. It's the same thing with Barry."

by achiappanza on Feb 20, 2008 2:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Barry Bonds, the helper

Yeah, well every Sith master needs an apprentice.

Hoping tk's recovery is faster than Raj going from first to third!

by Goofus on Feb 21, 2008 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Barry Bonds, the helper

I see you've been reading my work on NinersNation.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 21, 2008 8:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

this offseason has been all about defining, and then ignoring the definition of, the word "rebuild." 25 guys all trying to be more like David Eckstein is not what I had in mind goddammit

I know this makes me sound cynical at best and like a semi-creepy kids' movie villain at worst, but: we'll see how much these guys like each other when it's the All Star Break and they haven't won their 30th game yet.

vote Dan Ortmeier for Will Clark, apr. 4th at your local polling place

by nick on Feb 20, 2008 3:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

30 wins by the all-star break too much for the Giants? Laying the hyperbole on a little thick aren't we?

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Feb 20, 2008 5:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

Pitching and defense wins games and the Giants' have that. Any idiot knows you can't win baseball games by scoring more runs than the other team.

2008 Rolaids Relief winner: Randy Messenger

by rxmeister on Feb 20, 2008 6:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

Well no, not ONLY by scoring more runs that your opponent. You totally have to pitch and defend less runs than them, too.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2008 7:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

The Giants offense might be very very very bad, but under 30 at the all-star break would put them on a pace to lose somewhere around 110 games. That's historically bad. The Giants pitching (yes, I said it) is too good to allow this team to be historically bad.

You have to realize that the all-star break isn't the mid-point of the season. It's somewhere around 90 games in.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Feb 20, 2008 11:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

I'm not sure I follow here, Mark. Pitching and HITTING win games moreso than pitching and defense. And while I guess it is true that any idiot knows that you can't win baseball teams by scoring more runs than the other team, anyone above idiot level knows that you CAN and MUST. The only other way is by forfeit.

by sharksrog on Feb 22, 2008 1:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

i'd say they're more likely to be under 30 than over 40. Barring some unforseen Frandstasticism, that is

vote Dan Ortmeier for Will Clark, apr. 4th at your local polling place

by nick on Feb 20, 2008 9:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Nice ESPN article on the Giants

I suspect that you are talking about the mid-point of the season. If so, then that's not so out there. But if you are talking 90 games in, then I would disagree.

Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Feb 20, 2008 11:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs