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Around SBN: The Worst Team Ever Projected?

Bullpen Predictions?

Im new here to McCovey Chronicles and I like what I see.
I have read a ton about how our offense will suck, how our starters have the potential to be great, but what I have not heard a ton about is our bullpen?
Who is slated to be our closer?
Do we need any improvements?
How does our bullpen compare to other NL West teams?
Can our pitching staff really keep this team afloat?

Star-divide

Thanks for listening.
Hit me up if you like jerky.

Poll
Will the Giants compete for a post season spot?
Are you smoking crack?
56 votes
Yes
14 votes
No
37 votes
Not until 2012
17 votes

124 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Bullpen Predictions?
I could recite the entire bullpen to you chapter and verse, but I just read E's diary and I am currently suffering from vertigo.

by Moggeee on Feb 17, 2008 10:21 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
I really want to know if you're smoking crack because after the second inning I need alternate entertainment.
NL West TempestTeapot...the AL doesn't care WHO you sign.

by victor frankenstein on Feb 18, 2008 12:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
I'll give you my very short answers because I don't have the real expertise on these bullpen things.

Brian Wilson will be the closer until proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he shouldn't be.

The rest of the bullpen is a total crapshoot. In fact, it's my understanding that relief pitchers as a breed are highly unpredictable from year to year to begin with (with Steve Kline and his pretty okayness being the lone exception), which is why high profile relief signings are usually not very good things. So as long as you don't just have awful pitchers in the bullpen, then you're probably going to have either a bad or an average or a good season coming out of your relief corps. I know, it's not very specific, but that's just the fickle nature of the average relief pitcher. They can be good, average, or bad in any given year. You just have to hope that your guys all decide to have the good year at the same time.

Last year was obviously not that year for us, but our relievers don't just plain suck on the whole, so this year COULD be different. They could be great. Maybe. They could be terrible again. Or something in between. Maybe.

Somebody else will make a better case. This is just how I understand it.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 17, 2008 10:26 PM PST reply actions  

Howhedoit?
PECOTA, PERCOTA AND PECTORAL could not have been more comprehensive -- nor covered more of their collective butts -- in their analyses than this fine young reporter from the Chronicles.

I would applaud, but I am afraid my hands could not make contact -- I am still a little woozy from E.

by Moggeee on Feb 17, 2008 10:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Howhedoit?
Your hands, like Giants bats.

Important comma there.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 17, 2008 11:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Howhedoit?
It looks like I will have to pay attention to my grammar here as well as my punctuation.
Proud Sponsor of the San Jose Giants Minor League Baseball Team. www.greenlightjerky.com Flavors you've heard of, flavors you haven't, none of it typical

by GreenLightJerky on Feb 17, 2008 11:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Howhedoit?
Nah, that's just a particular comma construction that I've been fond of noticing ever since somebody showed me this quote by some guy from some time in history somewhere (really, I can't remember who the heck this did was), where he was describing the human condition. The quote, in full:

"We, like sheep."

Without the comma that sentence has a WHOLE different meaning. Sure, it still describes the human condition... just in a different, more humorous way.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 17, 2008 11:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Howhedoit?
As in 'we are like sheep' vs 'guys that like sheep'?
Proud Sponsor of the San Jose Giants Minor League Baseball Team. www.greenlightjerky.com Flavors you've heard of, flavors you haven't, none of it typical

by GreenLightJerky on Feb 17, 2008 11:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Howhedoit?
Exactastic.
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 17, 2008 11:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Howhedoit?
Similar to how Bill Cosby's new book is missing a verrrry important comma.  It should be, "Come On, People" as opposed to "Come On People."

Unless he's really into that kind of thing, but I don't think he is.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Feb 19, 2008 3:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Howhedoit?
well, bill does the darndest things sometimes.
IT'S BASEBALL IT'S BASEBALL IT'S BASEBALL IT'S BASEBALL!!!

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Feb 20, 2008 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Pick of the lint first
Howie would gladly trade you some of your jerky for hunks of a grammar thread he carries around in his pocket.

by Moggeee on Feb 17, 2008 11:45 PM PST up reply actions  

That reminds me of some poetry I've written lately
        Bengie's Lament

My giant feet, like clumps of stone

by Moggeee on Feb 17, 2008 11:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Howhedoit?
I must be on crack already (hooray!) because I read that as "Giant bats" and all I see in the #4 spot is Giant fat.

Oh , hell..."Jerk it , Bengie!"

NL West TempestTeapot...the AL doesn't care WHO you sign.

by victor frankenstein on Feb 18, 2008 12:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
Who is slated to be our closer?
Brian Wilson (insert your favorite Beach Boys pun here)

Do we need any improvements?
There's always room for improvement, especially in a Giants bullpen. So far Brian Wilson, Brad Hennessey and Tyler Walker appear to be locks and will likely respectively tackle the 9th, 8th and 7th innings. If they remain as effective as they were last season, we could have a decent group for late inning relief. The rest of the spots range from meh to sorta meh.

How does our bullpen compare to other NL West teams?
I think it'll be average at best, depending on who ends up there. San Diego will somehow have a good pen again even if it consists of a litter of kittens and a jar of mayonnaise. Arizona and Colorado had surprisingly good pens last season that are relatively intact, although I don't expect CO's to be as good this season. LA's is fueled by the wailing of damned souls and beating of devils' wings, so it'll be decent.

Can our pitching staff really keep this team afloat?
It has potential, but I doubt this will be the year that it will actually be realized. I fully expect Cain to continue to kick booty though.

Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Feb 17, 2008 11:07 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
I wouldn't exactly call Arizona's bullpen relatively intact. Remember, they lost their all-star closer Valverde.

by raisingcain on Feb 18, 2008 12:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
Yeah, I remembered. I was going to mention it but I was struggling to find a witty rhyme for "Valverde".
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Feb 18, 2008 12:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
I don't know about you, but I never fail to think "Valverde Shells and Cheese."
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 18, 2008 12:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Use it next time, no charge
Valverde makes Jon Sanchez look Dirty.

by Moggeee on Feb 18, 2008 12:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
"bad hair day"?
Hoping tk's recovery is faster than Raj going from first to third!

by Goofus on Feb 18, 2008 10:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
Jose no play for Z-o-n-a.

Oh , you wanted decent...

NL West TempestTeapot...the AL doesn't care WHO you sign.

by victor frankenstein on Feb 18, 2008 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
As others have said, Wilson is the closer.  I would think he might be a smart pickup for someone who plays fantasy ball.

Hennessey and Walker make a setup combo with Kline as the LOOGY.  With Henny's starting experience, I'd like to see him used less often, but in more 2 and 3 inning situations, but that's not the way bullpens are used these days, I guess.

I know they are talking about possibly carrying only 11 pitchers, but I don't see how they get away with that the way Bochy uses his pen.  I'll assume that leaves 3 bullpen slots open.

Randy Messenger, Vinnie Chulk and Jack Taschner are the incumbents.  There should be plenty of competition and some very interesting stories here:

Merkin Valdez is back from TJ and is out of options.  If he flashes his 98 MPH heater in spring training, the Giants aren't going to want to DFA him.  He could start the season on a rehab assignment in Fresno, but that is for a limited time.

Jose Cappellan is a rule 5 draftee who hasn't pitched above A ball.  He is a lefty though and Taschner is shaky.  We have to offer him back to Toronto if he doesn't make the 25 man roster, so if he impresses in camp, he could stay.

Keichii Yabu(or whatever his name is) seems to ooze the kind of veteran savvy Bochy is looking for so he could land a spot even if he sucks in spring training.

Then there's Jonathan Sanchez.  Does he come to camp and blow everybody away thus winning a late-inning role, or does he go to Fresno as a starter in training/waiting?  I personally favor the latter.

Pat Misch is another lefty who pitched well in both Fresno and SF last year.  I think his stuff is more suited to starting, but he's pitched as well or better out of the bullpen.  Here's a guy who would make a perfect innings eater with his starter's experience and repertoire.  I think he still has options, so he will probably go back to Fresno if he isn't included in a trade.

Bartolome Fortunato is a non-roster invitee who has been injured two of the last 3 years.  He reportedly was throwing mid-90's gas in winter ball.  His minor league career K/9 >10, with 9+ in 18 innings of MLB with the Mets in 2004.  I'm guessing he goes to Fresno to polish his game and be an emergency callup option.

Last and probably least is Erick Threets.  Threets once again tries to harness his awesome fastball which isn't quite what is used to be.  Amazingly enough, BA listed him as having the best changeup in the organization!  Is Threets out of options?  He's been around forever, so I would think that's a possibility.  If so, I would think he is a prime candidate to either get traded or picked up by another team off waivers.

by DrBGiantsfan on Feb 18, 2008 6:27 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
I agree about Sanchez being the wild card.  If he has an awesome ST and Lowry isn't moved, he could make the bullpen way above-average...especially since he could be a LHP in high-leveage situations instead of Kline or Taschner.
Hoping tk's recovery is faster than Raj going from first to third!

by Goofus on Feb 18, 2008 10:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Boch on Keiichi
You can tell he's just loaded with experience. He looks like he's close to being game-ready and he knows what he's doing.

Uh oh.

Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Feb 18, 2008 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
Very nice analysis of the Giants' bullpen prospects, Dr.  There is certainly little if anything I can add.

I have been overly optimistic about the Giants' bullpen each of the past two years, so I am hesitant to make a very positive prediction.  Pitchers -- and relievers in particular -- are subject to such changes year-to-year that the bullpen could be one of the best all the way down to (and perhaps more likely) one of the worst.

I look for Billy Sadler to reinsert himself into the mix soon, and I liked your mention of Perkin' Merkin Valdez, who has been easy to forget given his surgery.  I also share your admiration for the possible breakthrough of Waldis Joaquin, although he is of course much further away than the players you mentioned here.

The return of Tyler Walker throwning over 93 mph was impressive last September, and Brian Wilson finally emerged from his room to have fun, fun, fun till his daddy takes his control away.  Each could be important parts of the bullpen -- or fade away into relative obscurity.

Brad Hennessey made the greatest improvement in his K/BB ratio of any Giants pitcher, so the question naturally arises, can he sustain it?

Perhaps we should give a time-tried name to the Giants' bullpen -- Question Mark and the Mysterians.

by sharksrog on Feb 18, 2008 12:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
Thanks for the heads-up, doc. I really like Fortunato. He's flown under everyone's radar, but is a very solid NRI. He put up great strikeout numbers in the minors and majors alike. If he can shave a little off his walk rate, he could have a solid career as a reliever. He'll start off in Fresno, likely, but if he proves healthy it'll be good to see him up in the bigs.

by MidKnight on Feb 18, 2008 2:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
You all have forgoten about 1999 ROY Scott Williamson who is NRI in a similar situation as Fortunato.

by Cainer on Feb 20, 2008 12:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
Everyone said what I was already thinking. I'm waiting for Brian Anderson to debut in 2008 when someone in the bullpen sucks or gets hurt, which is almost guaranteed to happen. Otherwise, nothing to add here.
Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Feb 18, 2008 9:00 AM PST reply actions  

Brian Anderson?
Do you think Anderson has the stuff to pitch in the majors?  I guess I'm looking for guys like Pichardo, Matos, and here's the real sleeper, Sergio Romo!

by DrBGiantsfan on Feb 18, 2008 10:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Re: Brian Anderson?
Stuff not so much, but he's making it work as he transitions to the upper minors. I don't think he'll always be a closer. But I don't see why he can't be a productive member of a major league bullpen.

Romo doesn't have stuff that jumps out at you either but he also makes it work by throwing 109879697676 different arm angles. As long as it works, I don't complain.

Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Feb 18, 2008 12:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
Taschner needs to be hung by is nipples from a cactus!

by BuffyLaCoss on Feb 18, 2008 11:11 AM PST reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
This is my favorite comment on this whole diary.
There are not enough characters to say what happened here. I'm lucky to be here and looking forward to Giants baseball ... that's all I can say.

by tk on Feb 19, 2008 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
The thing I like with the Giants bullpen situation is there are a lot of guys who could protentially come out of nowhere and have a good to great season.  Merkin, Sadler, Threets, Misch, Sanchez...heck, even Capellan.  As howtheyscored said, such is the nature of bullpens that it is certainly possible we have a very good one next season.
Only 972 games until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Feb 18, 2008 12:51 PM PST reply actions  

Also
I like jerk chicken.
Democracy is lovely but baseball is more mature. BVCE supports Manny Burriss and SF Dugout.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Feb 18, 2008 1:05 PM PST reply actions  

Re: Also
Speaking of Jerk Chicken,

Flavor #18 Jamaican Jerk Style is coming soon.
Imported Jamaican Allspice, Thyme and Habaneros!

Proud Sponsor of the San Jose Giants Minor League Baseball Team. www.greenlightjerky.com Flavors you've heard of, flavors you haven't, none of it typical

by GreenLightJerky on Feb 18, 2008 1:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Also
Greenie makes another seamless transition to hawk his succulents.

by Moggeee on Feb 18, 2008 11:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Bullpen Predictions?
Jack Taschner -- like several others in the Giants' bullpen last season -- had a knack for giving up costly hits last season.  He was my biggest Giants disappointment at the major-league level.

Although Taschner seemed to have good movement on his pitches, it appears Jack suffered from:

.  Poor command of his fastball, leading to far too many foul balls and too much contact.

.  Very poor control of his slider.

IMO Jack, as seems to be the case with several Giants pitchers, should use his change up more.  But as long as batters are able to foul off Jack's fastball half the time they swing at it, I think he will have a hard time keeping his strikeout level up.  Without Jack's having a dominant fastball, it would seem that batters would be able to look for Jack's change up if he started using it more often.

by sharksrog on Feb 18, 2008 1:14 PM PST reply actions  

A failure we can all embrace
I think you're right that Jack struggles mightily to get outs with his two favorite pitches. That brings him down to a human level. A level we can relate to.

Maybe Jack Everyman should give up pissing us off, retire, and join the blog.

by Moggeee on Feb 18, 2008 11:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: A failure we can all embrace
Yeah, if I were Jack, I would just quit.  :)

by sharksrog on Feb 19, 2008 7:17 AM PST up reply actions  

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