What do you think?

by KingofDucks1987 on Dec 9, 2008 11:20 PM PST Comment 61 comments

Let's say Sabes doesn't make any more moves as far as hitters go and he does sign Randy Johnson to a 1 year deal and that's it for the off-season. Are you happy?

RF Winn

SS Edgar

3B Pablito

C B-Money

LF Flew

CF Scott

1B Ishikawa

2B Manny/Frandsen/Velez

If not, what else do you think is realistic for us and what else needs to be fixed? We know he isn't touching the corners through trades and he isn't getting another outfielder.

Poll

Would you be happy with this off-season?

Ya, great job!

3 votes

I'm happy.

50 votes

Meh...

60 votes

Not happy.

14 votes

Another really shitty Sabes off-season.

14 votes

141 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

0 recs | Comment 61 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

I'm happy

not ecstatic, but at least the team should be better than last year.

by Viliphied on Dec 9, 2008 11:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

and really

all I want while we’re rebuilding is to improve every year without giving up young cheap talent to do it.

by Viliphied on Dec 9, 2008 11:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

one ticket please.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 9:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow.

Was just about to log in and write a post about this. I mean, that’s not that bad, right? If things go right, that could be .280+ hitters 1-6. The OPS is still terrible, for sure, and I can’t really see much of a jump coming. This makes adding a legitamate bat quite intruiging, but I agree with Viliphied in maintaining the overall youth movement.

by InTimmyWeTrust on Dec 9, 2008 11:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Legitimate

Too legitimate to quititate

by InTimmyWeTrust on Dec 9, 2008 11:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Need one more bat

Even if in the outfield

by wilriv21 on Dec 9, 2008 11:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I don't really know what to think

I like that we sured up the bullpen and if we get Randy for 1 year, that is a good addition. Renteria is a decent signing, I’m not thrilled, but he’ll do. But we need a REAL bat or we need CC. If we get CC, our lineup will do just fine with our pitching. But if we don’t get him, sign 1 bat or make a trade for one. we need one bad.

Section 314 FTW!

by KingofDucks1987 on Dec 9, 2008 11:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

BTW

I turned 21 yesterday and easily my best gift, besides the gift of becoming legal to drink, was an authentic Tim Lincecum jersey.

Section 314 FTW!

by KingofDucks1987 on Dec 9, 2008 11:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

CONGRATS!

believe me: the drinking REALLY helps when watching the Giants

Charlie Hayes ate my homework

by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Dec 10, 2008 8:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

you mean drinking legally

by Giant Voodoo on Dec 10, 2008 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ProTip:

Don’t succumb to DRINKABILITY.

Drink Responsibly.

Drink good beer.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 10, 2008 8:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Coors Light man, eh?

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Dec 10, 2008 11:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

well I’m having my fair share of Spotted Cow for now since I’ll lose it soon.

I’ll probably be getting quite a bit of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and Lienenkugel’s Sunset Wheat when I move back home.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 10, 2008 9:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn’t be happy, but I wouldn’t mind.

comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Dec 10, 2008 12:00 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

still cant handle having b money hit in the 4 spot, its the best decision with what we got but come on now we need an actual 4 spot hitter even though its not possible right now. must have patience on A Vil

"But if he's swinging at real flies, well, in that case there are two definite solutions: 1) Fresno 2) Ritalin." - howtheyscored

by CPGiant756 on Dec 10, 2008 12:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don’t make, and if sabes finished the offseason keeping our farm system and young pitching at the big league level intact while also adding to the bullpen and throwing in renteria i’d be happy. A lot of that would have to do with just how bad sabes has been in recent years and the fact that merely decent from him seems like more than i have a right to expect, but if our new m.o. is to make low cost vet additions to shore up holes in the short term while continuing to beef up our minor league talent… yeah, i’d be okay with that. That’s a winning formula, eventually, as long as we’re then ready to ante up to keep the stars that come out of our own organization coughLincecumcough

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Dec 10, 2008 12:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I’m happy with this as it is better than making a stupid move losing young talent.

In this situation i think it would be wise to sign one more veteran player like Richie (a player who only needs a one year deal on the cheap that will not cost any draft picks) to serve as a backup plan at first or third as well as being a right handed bat to use against left handed pitching since both Sandoval and Ishikawa are much stronger against right handed pitchers.

Also it does not have to be Aurilia but just a player who can rake lefties and will come in a short inexpensive deal

by Jeff Kent's Stache on Dec 10, 2008 12:37 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I want Aurilia back!

I have to say that because I adopted him. No but seriously, if he’s gone, can I claim someone new? Is there anyone available? Howry? Affeldt? Sandoval? Phelps? Renteria?

Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis

by wjackalope on Dec 10, 2008 8:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i’d be happy mainly in the sense that sabean didn’t go out and do anything absolutely freaking retarded.

also if dunn can be had for 2-3 years, i think we should jump all over that.

I’d be pretty happy to go into 2009 with this line-up or some variation:
Winn
FLew
Pablito
Dunn
BMoney
Renteria
Rowand
Burriss

by TimLincecumIsGod on Dec 10, 2008 1:06 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I’d be really happy if we could trade Rowand.

"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean

by Smotheredinhugs on Dec 10, 2008 4:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

The thing that jumps out at me is how bad that defense looks. Especially if Manny isn’t the 2B (and with his bat that certainly seems possible) we’re gonna end up with some pitchers who are afraid to throw ground balls with that IF.

Oh and the offense is still offensive.

Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!

by Roger on Dec 10, 2008 5:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I am with you here

If they bring in another veteran infielder I really hope its guy that can be alright at middle infield spots & 3rd. It would seem to be the best way to use our pitching advantage and – unlike the quest for a middle of the order bat – quite doable.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 9:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I voted “meh” because the biggest priority (to me) was a middle of the bat corner IF. If we add Burrell to play 1B, I’d skip “I’m happy” and go straight to “Ya, great job!”.

Adding as a clean-up hitter would do two things:

Add his production, obviously
Allow the other hitters to slide into more appropriate spots in the order

I’d probably go:

Lewis
Renteria
Winn
Burrell
Molina
Pablo
Rowand
2B
P

I moved Pablo down to take pressure off the kid
I’d consider swapping Winn and Renteria depending on how they’re performing
I’d move Rowand up if he comes back to his expected performance

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 10, 2008 6:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

IAWTC

Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.

by ResDog on Dec 10, 2008 7:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s difficult to say as it’s a relative question. I’d certainly be happier than if we made some bad moves, but not as happy as if we’d make some good moves. I guess, the question is, would you be happier than the start of the offseason, in which case i’d say yes. We’ve made some reasonable moves that have improved us in the short term, but not harmed any long term prospects.

I’d still like us to do some other things (possibly a Burrell signing for example) but i’d generally be happy with the moves we had made.

Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!

by GiantFan on Dec 10, 2008 6:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

My sense is, that would be incrementally better, maybe even .500. The supposedly less sievelike bullpen is worth, what, five wins? more? over last season. Though like everyone says, that desired corner-infielder-with-pop would be great. (Although in the ten years I’ve followed the Giants I don’t remember very many corner infielders with major power. Andres Gallaraga, maybe. He had pop and almost hit cola too.)

by shanghaijim on Dec 10, 2008 8:06 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's a 500 team

if:
1) the infield defense is less atrocious than it looks
2) 2B and 1B are above replacement level, approaching average offense
3) Pablito hits .300
4) None of the old guys fall off a cliff.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?

by zenbitz on Dec 10, 2008 8:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think point 1) is going to swing on how we fill 3B or if Pablo isn’t Cantu bad on defense.

/deer head
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Dec 10, 2008 8:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think even if Pablo proves to be reliable on balls hit to him, the range factor is what’s really going to kill us. Teaming him and Renteria on the left side defense is really begging for a parade of ground ball hits. It’ll be interesting to watch the pitching staff’s BABIP and see if it’s not abnormally high this year.

Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!

by Roger on Dec 10, 2008 8:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

most of our pitchers are more of flyball pitchers though.

And Renteria seems to be a lot closer to average to me than unspeakably bad. And hey, SSS, but Pablo’s defensive stats at third were pretty good last year

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Dec 10, 2008 8:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tailor the field for the Giants

This team is not a great offensive team and speed is ok – why not let the grass grow high to help the home team?

by wilriv21 on Dec 10, 2008 9:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Get out of my head!!

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 9:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure if moving the fences has been discussed here before or not...

but why not move the fences OUT? If the Giants aren’t hitting any homers why should the other team?

by VizquelQuest on Dec 10, 2008 10:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

PUT THE FENCES BEHIND THE BLEACHERS!

by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 10, 2008 10:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Renteria is probably closer to average than way below average. I think he’ll be OK, not amazing, but OK. If Pablo turns into Cantu or EE we might have problems.

/deer head
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Dec 10, 2008 10:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

amazingly ok?

"I didn't know (after seeing a spectacular over-the-shoulder catch) whether to shit or go blind." - Former Giants Outfielder Harvey Kuenn on Willie Mays

by stealth snail on Dec 10, 2008 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

point 4 depends on whether the city has enough money to install warning rails on the trails at Land’s End.

by shanghaijim on Dec 10, 2008 8:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Most of those are reasonable, but for all of them at once to be true seems like a stretch.

The Denker bus is now bound for San Diego. Those who were passengers on it are now angrily stranded at a gas station in Modesto, CA. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Dec 10, 2008 8:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Uhhhh......

Unfortunately,

1) this is an atrociously bad infield defense
2) 2B & 1B are not above replacement level, either offensively or defensively
3) Pablito could hit .300, but could also give up more runs defensively than he earns offensively
4) I’m not all that worried about the cliff…….you’re not going to hurt yourself when there’s not that far to fall.

This is barely a .500 team.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Dec 10, 2008 8:34 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

1) It’s bad, though not as bad as the Marlins’ looks.
2) How do you figure that? The Ishi/Phelps platoon is projected to be at least 1 win above replacement (not good, but still above replacement). A MannyB/KFran combo at 2B is projected to be probably slightly above replacement (as in, +.5 wins above replacement).
3) I really don’t know what to expect of the guy.
4) True dat. Hopefully anyway

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

btwn meh and im happy

=) didnt sacrifice our future with Type A FA signings
=) didnt sacrifice our future with obscure trades for 1 and gone players
=) young guys will get a whole lot more at bats to see what 2010 might produce
=( molina is still the number 4 hitter with a potential to hit 12 hrs in 500AB
=( didnt really improve overall offensive
=( is oortiz or rueter available to be our #5 pitcher

by cazzuno on Dec 10, 2008 8:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

As I keep saying...

I think the offense will be improved because Pablo/Renteria/Ishikawa/Phelps/Frandsen as a group is better than Castillo/Vizquel/Bowker/Aurilia/Durham

I also expect Rowand to improve and Winn/molina to slightly regress.

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 10, 2008 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

but remember we have to make up 14 pythagorian games to hit .500

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?

by zenbitz on Dec 10, 2008 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I always just thought Pythagoras was an idiot anyway.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 10, 2008 9:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Meh

They should be better than last year’s team, but it still looks like it will be Molina batting clean-up. Any team with someone like Bengie in the 4 spot has fundamental problems.

Greetings, Marklar! I am Marklar! This is Marklar.

by marklar on Dec 10, 2008 9:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Meh

I actually like the Renteria signing, and the bullpen should be better. Signing the big ugly would be a definite plus, although that would make our rotation awfully lefty heavy. If for no other reason the unit could eat those innings a guy like the albatross requires this team to eat.

The one move I would like to see made would be a Winn trade. I love Randy Winn, I just think he has some value and I would like to see Nate get a chance. This is a powerless team, and I believe Nate’s power ceiling is higher than Winn’s. Phelps also interests me because as a platoon mate with Ishi he could provide some power.

I think Molina did okay in the cleanup role last year for a guy who shouldn’t have been asked to hit there. If we could have gotten his production in the #6 hole that would have been really nice… however, he clogs the shit out of the basepaths, so much so that I can’t watch another year of him. Bochy wants to carry three catchers, which I just don’t understand.

I want to see Winn traded…

Winn + Sosa + C level prospect for Beltre…

Beltre is a rental, but so is Winn…
Beltre is a cleanup hitter, Winn is not…
Beltre shores up the D…
Beltre does not clog basepaths…
Beltre is not Jorge Cantu…

Sandoval would be able to back up Bengie, play a lot of first, and spell Beltre at third… all the while relieving some of the pressure a 22 yr old may have hitting third after basically being an organizational catcher before last year.

Lewis
Renteria
Sandoval
Beltre
Molina
Rowand
Schierholtz
Frandsen

Lincecum
Zito
Cain
Johnson
Sanchez

= NL West contenders

by lincysgiants on Dec 10, 2008 11:20 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

then we sign Burrell/Dunn (ManRam?) to play in the outfield and we dont throw sandoval in the toughest slot to hit in

the only reason i say not to trade winn is that it might open up a spot for dave roberts to start playing more

by cazzuno on Dec 10, 2008 1:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

also, the M’s are rebuilding so Beltre for Winn doesn’t really work for them.

The Denker bus is now bound for San Diego. Those who were passengers on it are now angrily stranded at a gas station in Modesto, CA. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Dec 10, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Look at Winn 900+ Pa’s in Safeco and see the large drop off compared to playing half his games a Mays Field. I can see Winn helping and being of use to a lot of teams. The M’s are not one of these teams though.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Really, not many rebuilding teams are going to be interested in Winn, they’d want younger players or at least guys not in their walk year. If Winn is traded, it would be to a contender, or someone who thinks they are a contender.

The Denker bus is now bound for San Diego. Those who were passengers on it are now angrily stranded at a gas station in Modesto, CA. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Dec 10, 2008 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Which is what 25 teams in the league at this point?

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe they could flip Winn… I think he has the most trade value of any non pitching giant

by lincysgiants on Dec 10, 2008 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Molinia has more value. He qualifies as a type “a” as well. Plays in a position group that doesn’t have many hitters. Also a posotion that is hard to fill.

The problem is in this case is the M’s have young catcher in Clement and 3 yr 24m ~~burden~~ contract to Jojimia already installed at catcher.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

lessee

Not Contenders in 09 (other than the Giants):
M’s
Orioles
Blue Jays
KC
Pirates
Padres
Rangers
Reds (Though I guess you could make a case)
Astros

Then you have to winnow out teams that don’t really have anything worth trading for (like both Chicago teams) and teams not really in need of Winn’s services. There’s really not but but a handful of teams that it makes sense for.

The Denker bus is now bound for San Diego. Those who were passengers on it are now angrily stranded at a gas station in Modesto, CA. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Dec 10, 2008 2:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's look at this a bit.

The thing to consider is how likely Winn is to stay a Type "A" with those 2 picks and that in baseball this really is the way to trade for additional draft picks. So a team that is having a failed rebuild or a team needing to start a rebuild this can be real useful.

Lets look at your list. The Pads are out (because of money issues), the M’s as well (he have covered their reasons) and so are the Rangers in my eyes ( they have talent on the farm and I don’t see a glaring hole in the outfield for them). As for the rest of the list:
Royals & Pirates qualify as experiencing a failed rebuild.
Given what happened with the Jays "o" last year and starting pitcher injures they might be considering a rebuild.
The Astro’s fit both categories.
I am not very ignorant unfamiliar with the O’s farm so I don’t know what they have positioned to climb the ladder. I do know they have nice options for a rebuilding club in the OF. Yet a team with about as many losses as us could probable use the picks.

As for both Chitown teams it depends on what you might think of Fields or Lillibridge and how they may ( or may not) be useful the the Giants. With the Cubs I think all bets are off tell the whole Peavy thing sakes out.

Of coarse any return on a Winn trade should be viewed as a matter a sacrificing potential ceilings for realized potential.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 11, 2008 10:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Apologies to you Old Jacket. Bullets failed

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 11, 2008 10:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

why is the 3 hole "toughest"

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?

by zenbitz on Dec 10, 2008 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs