Giants Among Suitors For The Big Unit
I don't mind him coming over.
11 months ago
ejdacanay
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Sign to incentive-laden deal. Giants will need to keep EL Guapo otherwise between RJ, Lincycum and Cain that would be a fugly rotation.
by wilriv21 on Dec 6, 2008 1:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why does the deal have to be incentive laden? Can’t it just be short?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 6, 2008 9:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
one year deal based on innings or starts etc
by wilriv21 on Dec 6, 2008 9:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s not really an answer. Ideally, of course, every player would sign an incentive laden deal, but it seems to me that it is more important for longer-term contracts, where the investment risk is higher. I’m not sure why Randy Johnson would accept one, and since this isn’t an ideal world, I’m not sure why the Giants should insult him by offering one. His cost isn’t going to be that great to begin with. What, 5-10 mil for one year? I don’t think that kind of money warrants throwing incentives in to achieve, especially for a Randy Johnson type.
I understand his back is clearly a risk, but still. I just don’t think “incentive laden” rightly applies to every single deal we want to make, and I think this is probably one of those.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2008 10:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m fine with it if it’s a one year deal for like 500 K or 750 K. If he can’t start, he can come out of the bullpen.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 6, 2008 2:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
judging from how negotiations went with Arizona, I think he’d want more then that… though probably no more then 4 mill. He’d be pricey but not terrible if on a one-year deal. How about Pedro Martinez though? He’ll probably want around the same contract, and is about equally as likely to break down as RJ is
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by theghostofjasonellison on Dec 6, 2008 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno..
I think I have more faith in RJ than PM
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by WalrusMan on Dec 6, 2008 2:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
a year or two ago, i’d probably argue… he wasn’t effective with the yankees and he had horrible back problems last year with the d’backs. But after 30 starts last year, with an overall stat line that would slot in as a very very nice #5 for us (or #4 and kick zito back), I might have to agree. No guarantee PM will make it back, and RJ still puts up some sweet K numbers. Such a sweet strikeout pitching staff with RJ, Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez! Oh, and…. zito…..
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Dec 6, 2008 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s no way he should have to settle for that little. 1 year, $5-7 mil seems fair to me.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Dec 6, 2008 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He was a top 20 pitcher in the NL last year.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 7, 2008 6:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I read somewhere (MLB TradeRumors?) where someone wondered if he might stop trying after he gets his 300th win. But I saw today that he also wants 5000 Ks. He would have to be trying all season long if he wants 211 Ks this season. I think he’d be worth $2-3M with incentives
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by marklar on Dec 6, 2008 2:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
YES
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Dec 6, 2008 2:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
GIANTS CLOSING IN ON RENTERIA
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by WalrusMan on Dec 6, 2008 2:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What can I say...
I’m on a kick.
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by WalrusMan on Dec 6, 2008 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sign CC for the front end of the rotation, the Big Eunuch for the back end of the rotation, and trade Sanchez for a corner infielder with power. The Giants might spend that kind of money. However, if they did, see you in the playoffs!!
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Dec 6, 2008 2:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
How about trading for Peavy?
If Sabean thinks Sabathia is too expensive then the Giants should consider Jake Peavy. The cost-cutting Padres are having difficulty finding a trading partner for the former Cy Yound award winner. Peavy is owed "only" $60M over the next four seasons. Padres would be looking for low-cost players in return.
Sabean then can negotiate will any of the FA hitters for the bat the team needs. There might even be an overall cash savings of having Peavy plus FA hitter rather than signing FA Sabathia and trading for the hitter. Who knows maybe even be able to keep the second round pick in the draft.
by wilriv21 on Dec 6, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I might be wrong, but doesn’t Peavy have a No Trade Clause?
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
by Giant among Angels on Dec 6, 2008 10:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Si
But that has yet to slow the Padres attempt to unload him. There are two possible reasons he may choose to remove the no trade clause:
1) His new team picks up the $22M option for 2013
2) Peavy has played for Bochy
by wilriv21 on Dec 6, 2008 11:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
3.)
No matter where he goes, that team will probably suck less than the Padres.
by FairweatherFan on Dec 7, 2008 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
CC
Lin-Cy-Cum
Cain
Zito
Big Unit
Man that rotation is unreal.
Hasheem "The Dream" Thabeet or Brandon Jennings. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
by ejdacanay on Dec 6, 2008 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you’d have to slot the Unit ahead of Zito, wouldn’t you?
I mean, people realize he had a 117 ERA+ in 180+ innings last year, right?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Dec 6, 2008 3:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
might want to mix up the L/R up a little more
by wilriv21 on Dec 6, 2008 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ya
i think that would go:
Lincecum
CC
Cain
Zito
Unit
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Dec 6, 2008 4:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Be fun to watch us on defense (4 out 5 games, the other game i will spend breaking my remote against my tv screen)
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
by Giant among Angels on Dec 6, 2008 10:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think our defense will be all that fun to watch.
by Natto on Dec 7, 2008 1:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To me, solid pitching is fun to watch
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
by Giant among Angels on Dec 7, 2008 10:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Defense can be a pretty big part of perceived pitching, though.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2008 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and vis versa
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
by Giant among Angels on Dec 7, 2008 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe you mean vise vers.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 7, 2008 6:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, i meant every spelling of those two words of the dead language
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
by Giant among Angels on Dec 7, 2008 9:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The pitching will be fun. The defense on the other hand.
by Natto on Dec 7, 2008 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
by Giant among Angels on Dec 7, 2008 5:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The L/R thing
Is probably the weirdest of baseball’s “conventional wisdoms”. Let’s say that Cain and Zito start back to back, and that we’re playing the Padres. So Khalil Greene is playing and he faces Cain a couple of times. Cain is taken out after 6 innings. Greene then faces a reliever or two, who may or may not throw right handed. Then the game is over, and Greene showers, gets dressed, drives home, and goes to sleep. He wakes up, gets dressed, eats breakfast, and drives to the ballpark. He warms up and plays catch with Scott Hairston. Than he goes down to that place where they have that batting practice machine, and takes a couple dozen swing off of it. Then he, along with his batting coach, watches tape of Zito throwing, including his own AB’s against him. He has a snack. Then he goes up to the field and takes batting practice against a batting practice pitcher, who probably throws left handed. Just before the game starts, he watches Zito warm up on the mound. Then the game starts, and he watches Zito pitch against his teammates. Just before it’s Greene’s turn to hit, he stands in the on deck circle, and closely watches Zito’s motion, while taking practice swings. It’s his turn to bat, he steps up to the plate, and now good ol’ Khalil is somehow supposed to be confused by the fact that Zito throws with his left hand?
I don’t buy it.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 7, 2008 7:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh
And same thing regarding the hard throwing/slow throwing thing (I’m looking at you, WalrusMan).
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 7, 2008 7:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that mixing up LH and RH starters is overrated. I also think managers typically don’t take enough advantage of days off to shuffle the rotation. I think managers should think ahead more and skip the #5 spot more often or shuffle LH and RH starters more if they’re facing a lineup that’s stacked with LHH or RHH.
I disagree about soft-tossers vs. flame-throwers. There’s a big difference between facing the two, especially in -game.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 7, 2008 8:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe (probably) during the same game. But so much stuff happens between one game and another, that I really can’t see how it would have a big impact on a player. You’re better off just having your best pitcher at #1, second best at #2, etc. That extra one game that Cain might start instead of Zito is probably more than worth the loss of the advantage you would have gained by doing it LH/RH or ST/FT.
I agree about skipping the #5 spot, though I think it would cause a bit of a chemistry problem – I bet it would be pretty hard for the #5 to gain any confidence if his manager tried to keep him away from the mound whenever possible.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 7, 2008 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh..
The #5 guy would kind of be like your mopup guy in the bullpen. There’s a reason why you’re in the mopup spot. There’s a reason you’re in the #5 slot. For Lowry next year it could be great. He’ll get less stress on his arm from less innings and more rest.
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by WalrusMan on Dec 7, 2008 12:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If we sign Sabathia and Johnson
Which is how this discussion got started, our #5 will be Zito, or maybe Johnson. Not exactly your typical mop up.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 7, 2008 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True..
I’m just talking in general. I’m with Goofus wanting to have this strategy used more. You’d even be able to use this as a type of Fresno shuttle, with a reliever being up when the 5th starter is needed and a fielder being up when the 5th starter is essentially in your bullpen.
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by WalrusMan on Dec 7, 2008 1:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
SP’s are creatures of habit. that being said, not every pitcher is capable of pitching with 5 days rest then 3 then 5 then 3 …etc… (Although Sabathia proved he is an exception to this last year). With the long season especially very early and very late it is best to give every pitcher the standard start every 5th day. Do we really feel comfortable pitching Timmy on short rest. it is too risky for me.
-note: not taking travel days into consideration
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
by Giant among Angels on Dec 7, 2008 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well..
If you do it you have to plan your rotation out. And when a 5th starter gets a start, he of course won’t get a start or relief appearance again until he’s rested his 4 days. Then, he’ll either get a start, or if there was an off day in those 4 days, move to the pen for a few days until he’s scheduled to start in the next few days. For example..
100 P start
off #1 guy
off off day
off #2 guy
off #3 guy
20 P #4 guy
off #1 guy
100 P start
You’ll also pick up a few more starts to your first pitchers with this.
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by WalrusMan on Dec 7, 2008 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree about skipping the #5 spot, though I think it would cause a bit of a chemistry problem – I bet it would be pretty hard for the #5 to gain any confidence if his manager tried to keep him away from the mound whenever possible.
If our #5 starter is Zito, I’d have no problem whatsoever telling him we’re skipping his start in favor of CC or Lincecum. If he gives me any lip, I’m telling him, “Listen buster, you’re lucky to even be in the rotation after the poo you’ve thrown for us the last two seasons. If it wasn’t for that contract of yours, you’d probably be our mop-up man’s mop-up man. Now prove that you belong in the rotation and don’t deserve to have starts skipped. Oh yeah, and STFU.”
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 8, 2008 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I love that term for a soft lefty: " Poo Slinger"
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
by Giant among Angels on Dec 8, 2008 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with Goof (I know, strange)
Especially on hard/soft. Lefty Righty is not so big, but the hard/soft is something that takes effect. If you face Lincecum for 9 innings at 97 mph, then you’re timed to 97 mph game conditions. If you h ave Zito going 88 after that, your timing is off. Especially evident in game.
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by WalrusMan on Dec 7, 2008 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
See my reply to Goofus.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 7, 2008 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
Especially evident if you are facing Zito for 3 AB’s and then Wilson comes in and is throwing 100 MPH, your timing is all fucked up.
Of course, that is assuming that Zito Can go 8 ;)
by FairweatherFan on Dec 7, 2008 9:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But we’re not talking about changing pitchers in the middle of a game. See my reply to Goofus.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 8, 2008 8:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your point is well taken, but Khalil Greene now plays for the St. Louis Cardinals. Man, he’s going to have trouble next year since he doesn’t get to play 19 games against the Giants anymore!!
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Dec 8, 2008 7:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lincecum
CC
Zito
Cain
Unit
Hurts putting Cain in the #4 spot, he’s truly the #3 guy on the staff (AT WORST) but if you put the slow throwing Zito between CC and Cain then you’ll get better results out of everyone.
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by WalrusMan on Dec 6, 2008 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is this the first time we’ve had a Fanshot when there was already a Fanpost? I know it’s happened a million times the other way around.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 6, 2008 3:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I’m disappointed by the lack of penis jokes.
by oldjacket on Dec 8, 2008 8:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I WISH I HAD A BIG UNIT
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 8, 2008 9:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
there.
That wasn’t so hard, was it?
/patiently waits for Goofus
by oldjacket on Dec 8, 2008 9:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What, you’re patiently waiting for my big unit?
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 8, 2008 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No means no!
Now please stop calling me!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 8, 2008 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
xanthan's Christmas list.
Bigger CPU.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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by WalrusMan on Dec 8, 2008 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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