MadBum #6, Posey #19, AnVil #48... Alderson doesn't make the top 50
I'm pretty surprised that they didn't put Tim II in the top 50. His numbers last year were very good and the Giants had him pitching at a level that was quite advanced for his age. I guess they aren't impressed by his stuff.
about 3 years ago
shikantaza
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The overall list is pretty funky. Austin Jackson at #27? Samardzija at #50? Adam Miller making it at #41 is also really weird. Miller has a good arm but has struggled to stay healthy, he’s probably a reliever at this point.
I’d definitely stick Alderson in front of Samardzija and Miller.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
or Brett Wallace but no Alvarez?
Porcello at 4, but Alderson doesn’t make it at all?
This list sucks.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
Wallace is a beast, I’d have him higher. Off the top of my head, I particularly don’t get Porcello at 4, Escobar at 8, or Schafer missing entirely.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
fwiw
I believe Alderson was ranked #12 on the Community Prospect List on John Sickels’ site. Personally, I think it would be more accurate to take that #12 and the MLB’s #59 and split the difference. Timmy II at #35 seems about right. I do think we have 4 of the top 50 prospects in baseball, no matter how you chop it up.
Also agree with later posts that Escobar @ #8 seems silly. Could be wrong, but I had him at about #40, tops. Vitters being left out of the Top 50 was the biggest surprise for me (other than Alderson).
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
by Giants_Junkie on Dec 6, 2008 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
confirmed...
in fact, the Giants have four of the Top 25 according to the “Community” at the Minor League Ball blog (J Sickels). I think this is interesting because that Community list obviously includes relatively knowledgable fans from all over the country. Anyway, for those who might not visit Sickels’ site all that often, here’s the Top 25 from that list (which is currently on #92 on its way to completing a Top 100).
1. MATT WIETERS – C (Baltimore)
2. DAVID PRICE – SP (Tampa Bay)
3. JASON HEYWARD – OF (Atlanta)
4. TRAVIS SNIDER – OF (Toronto)
5. MADISON BUMGARNER – SP (San Francisco)
6. COLBY RASMUS – OF (St. Louis)
7. CAMERON MAYBIN – OF (Florida)
8. TREVOR CAHILL – SP (Oakland)
9. NEFTALI FELIZ – SP (Texas)
10. MATT LAPORTA – 1B/OF/DH (Cleveland)
11. MIKE MOUSTAKAS – 3B (Kansas City)
12. TIM ALDERSON – SP (San Francisco)
13. PEDRO ALVAREZ – 3B (Pittsburgh)
14. RICK PORCELLO – SP (Detroit)
15. DEXTER FOWLER – OF (Colorado)
16. BRETT ANDERSON – SP (Oakland)*
17. DEREK HOLLAND – SP (Texas)
18. ANDREW McCUTCHEN – OF (Pittsburgh)
19. BUSTER POSEY – C (San Francisco)
20. CHRIS TILLMAN – SP (Baltimore)
21. LARS ANDERSON – 1B (Boston)
22. JUSTIN SMOAK – 1B (Texas)
23. THOMAS HANSON – SP (Atlanta)
24. ELVIS ANDRUS – SS (Texas)
25. ANGEL VILLALONA – 1B (San Francisco)
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
by Giants_Junkie on Dec 6, 2008 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
Noonan and the Minor League Ball Community List
Noonan is currently being considered for inclusion, but there are some ardent Noonan haters. I think he’s top 100 material, but I’m not that familiar with a lot of the second and third tier prospects of other teams. I do know that the scouts seem to like Noonan a lot, but his stats don’t really wow non-Giants fans.
It's a pretty meaningless list
Giants fans were just mostly voting for Giants prospects. There are many Giants fans at Minor League Ball, which is how you get Alderson over Porcello and Alvarez, and Villalona at #25.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
Top 200?
They have decided to go to 200 on this list. They are getting to the point where I haven’t heard of anyone. I personally follow the Giants minor leaguers pretty closely, but I only know the top prospects of the other teams and I don’t think I’m alone.
Alderson
Scouts seem really divided on Alderson. Some like him better than Bumgarner and some think his ceiling is a #2 starter or a closer. His stats and his age vs. level are outstanding. If he can repeat his stats in Double A, then he will likely jump into most peoples top 10 lists.
The Minor League Ball community..
Were complaining about ballot stuffing like crazy for SF prospects, so take that as what you will I guess at #12. He’s below that.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
East Coast bias?
Since the complaints of ballot stuffing were mostly against the A’s, Giants and Rangers fans, I wonder if they just haven’t seen or don’t follow a lot of the west coast prospects. Personally, I think Alderson should be about #30 on this list from what I’ve heard. But the way the list was done, if he was #31 on every list, he wouldn’t even get one point. He came out as #59, but I would be surprised if he would have been left off many scouts top 50 lists.
Good for MadBum. But as I commented here before, the part of Tim Alderson will be played by chopped liver.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 5, 2008 8:24 AM PST reply actions
Looks like a fine list to me. There’s a couple of weird choices, but except for Samardzija I don’t hate any of the rankings. And I’m fine with Alderson not making it – I personally have a bit higher than Villalona, but I wouldn’t put him higher than ~45 anyway, so it’s not a big deal.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
Wow
Madbum won a lot of awards last season, his list is really long
That's what she said.
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
by Giants_Junkie on Dec 5, 2008 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
Alderson v. Porcello
They’re nearly the same age and were drafted a few spots from one another. Each was a 19 y/o in A+ ball. Each led their respective leagues in ERA (Alderson 2.79 – Cal League/Porcello 2.66 – FSL).
However, Alderson struck out 124 batters in 145 innings, while Porcello struck out only 72 hitters in 125 innings. On the other hand, Porcello had a better GO/FO ratio, though he still gave up more homeruns in fewer innings.
I like how having better “stuff” is so definitive.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 5, 2008 9:22 AM PST reply actions
Supposedly, he wasn’t allowed to throw one of his best pitches (his slider, if I remember correctly). If that’s true, then that would explain the disparity in their strikeout rates. Porcello definitely does have better stuff though.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
It’s not just a better GB/FB ratio – his GB% was 63.9% – that’s Brandon Webb territory. Alderson’s low HR rate was just a result of a pitchers park and a completely unsustainable HR/FB ratio. Add the fact that Porcello was only drafted near Alderson because of his excessive money demands the fact that pretty much all scouts agree that he’s a beast, plus the point about how he wasn’t allowed to throw his curve ball, and you pretty much have to place him higher than Alderson. #4 is a bit crazy, though.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
Alderson not in the top 50?
That’s a pretty shocking indictment of the list! Obviously some people are higher on Alderson than others, but even his harshest critics would have him as a top 50 prospect! When more reputable lists come out Alderson will definately be on them, and in many cases in the first half (of the 50) as opposed to the second.
Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!
I bet we will see Alderson right around 45-55 when the more reputable lists come out. Assuming that he came close to making the top 50, I wouldn’t consider it a huge problem with this list (although I do think Samardzija is highly overrated because he is a big name from his Notre Dame days)
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 5, 2008 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
I blame the economy for Alderson’s name not showing up.
The bases were drunk, and I painted the black with my best yakker. But blue squeezed me, and I went full. I came back with my heater, but the stick flares one the other way and the chalk flies for two bases. Three earnies! Next thing I know, skipper hooks me and I'm sipping suds with the clubby.
I think you’re underestimating Alderson quite a bit & i’d say 30-40 would be quite a conservative estimate. Putting up the numbers he did, at his age, at that level & with his scouting background is very impressive. It’s worth noting that BA had him at 19 in the mid-season prospect list, so whilst he may not be that high (due to recent draftees), having him at 45-55 is too harsh.
Looking at that list, the two comparable pitchers that come to mind are Porcello & Anderson, how manage to rank 4th & 13th. There’s nothing wrong with ranking Porcello as higher than Alderson, but to have such a disparity is ridiculous. Probably the closest comparable pitcher to Alderson is Brett Anderson, and they’re probably quite close in terms of prospects. To have one at 13th & one at 59th shows how completely illogical this list is. And there’s loads more cases (such as no Alvarez, Chacin, Smoak, etc) that show this list is pretty worthless.
Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!
AHHHH BOB SAGET!!!!
The bases were drunk, and I painted the black with my best yakker. But blue squeezed me, and I went full. I came back with my heater, but the stick flares one the other way and the chalk flies for two bases. Three earnies! Next thing I know, skipper hooks me and I'm sipping suds with the clubby.
I've met Bob Saget and you, sir, are no Bob Saget.
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
by Giants_Junkie on Dec 6, 2008 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
Alderson
I’m still wondering how Alcides Escobar is the 8th best prospect to them. What a crap list.
Proud adoptive parent of Tim Alderson.
I think 59th is pretty fair
so the Giants have 4 of the top 59 prospects in baseball according to this list. That is pretty damn good.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 5, 2008 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
Especially considering they didn’t have anyone in the top 50 last year.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 5, 2008 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
link fail (or more likely a Giants_Junkie fail)
but I didn’t see the expanded list…where did you get the #59 info? I’m curious to see where a few other notable omissions from the T50 wound up (Schafer, Vitters, Jones, etc.)
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
by Giants_Junkie on Dec 6, 2008 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
The link works fine, at least on my computer. But here you go:
* 51. Justin Smoak, 1B, Rangers
* 52. Logan Morrison, OF/1B, Marlins
* 53. Daniel Cortes, RHP, Royals
* 54. Jordan Walden, RHP, Angels
* 55. Ivan DeJesus, SS, Dodgers
* 56. Aaron Poreda, LHP, White Sox
* 57. Brett Cecil, LHP, Blue Jays
* 58. J.P. Arencibia, C, Blue Jays
* 59. Tim Alderson, RHP, Giants
* 60. Aaron Hicks, OF, Twins
Proud adoptive parent of Tim Alderson.
thanks.
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
by Giants_Junkie on Dec 8, 2008 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
hey wcw, Heyward is ranked higher
just goes to show what a huge mistake that MadBum pick was
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 5, 2008 12:26 PM PST reply actions
I know what jerks we were to pick him.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 5, 2008 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
I never get this…what’s wrong with wcw saying that we should have drafted Heyward? It was, and still is, a legitimate claim. And you can’t fault him for bringing it up all the time, since the last 100 time or so the subject has been brought up, it was by other posters going lol look stoopid wcw was.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
How the list was made
Reportedly the Milb list was created by individual scouts top 30 lists and points are assigned to each slot. For pitchers #1 starters are the most valuable. If a scout sees someone as less than a #1 or a reliever, they often are moved down the list and sometimes way down the list. I believe a lot of scouts think Alderson is a reliever or #2 starter regardless of his stats and he likely was left off of therr top 30 lists. That is how someone like Porcello, who almost universally is regarded as a #1 can be rated a lot higher than Alderson despite worse stats.
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