Jorge Cantu for Jonathan Sanchez?
by Grant on Dec 4, 2008 10:58 AM PST
81 comments
No.
The rumors originated here.
Really, I can see someone saying, "Wow! A 30-homer guy for a 5.00 ERA pitcher? Sweet!" And that person would then resume not thinking about baseball until April. If Cantu's defense was even close to acceptable, I'd be in favor of the trade. Sanchez is promising, but he's still a young pitcher. The "once he finds his control, he'll be awesome"-gag has left many broken hearts, and every fan overrates his/her own young players.
But Cantu is a butcher in the field. You can live with a low-OBP if it comes with substantial power, but not if the combination also brings abysmal defense. Cantu is Pedro Feliz, plus ten home runs and twenty points of OBP, minus a glove. And I mean that literally: a bare-handed Pedro Feliz would probably be preferable on defense.
Pass. Hopefully, the Giants are just stringing the Marlins along, trying to pull the ol' switcheroo with Dan Uggla.
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You had me at No.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Dec 4, 2008 11:01 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Would have had me at Hell-No
A simple no doesn’t cut it.
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
by Giants_Junkie on Dec 4, 2008 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nyet.
.277 average but 29 hr? Sounds like a Giant to me. OTOH, Sanchez scared the crap out of me at the end of last season. He looked really bad. Almost as bad as Uggla in the field. Please, please no.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
by HughG16 on Dec 4, 2008 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
b/c Uggla’s defense is golden?
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 4, 2008 11:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
It’s also awful, but he’s a better hitter.
by Grant on Dec 4, 2008 11:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t this kind of like dating someone you’re not really into because she/he has a hot sister/brother? ’Cause that never works out well.
Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.
by EliminateMe on Dec 4, 2008 1:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Uggla is a bad 2B. Cantu is awful no matter where he plays. It’s possible that Uggla might not be terrible if we moved him to 3B, but that’s just speculation on my part.
by rotorueter on Dec 4, 2008 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't even utter that Buzz kill crap.
A guy with ceiling in 4 years of a DH/firstbaseman holding a less then O.K. glove for a guy in four years that has a ceiling of a mid rotation starter or a shut down late inning guy in 4 years. Just put a nail gun to their temple. Please.
This rates at least a 5 Admiral Akbar.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Dec 4, 2008 11:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Anagram of "Should we trade for Jorge Cantu?"
WORN OUT, DREADFUL JEERS. GOTCHA!
Anagram of "Giants pitcher Tim Lincecum" = TENSE, CLIMACTIC, TRIUMPHING
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Dec 4, 2008 11:18 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
now THAT is impressive
The bases were drunk, and I painted the black with my best yakker. But blue squeezed me, and I went full. I came back with my heater, but the stick flares one the other way and the chalk flies for two bases. Three earnies! Next thing I know, skipper hooks me and I'm sipping suds with the clubby.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 4, 2008 11:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes,
I mean no, I mean yes I agree, no.
I know people are still waiting for Sanchez to put it together, but I think he did put it together last season. He just couldn’t sustain it because he was lacking stamina for the long haul. But there were some games early last year where I thought he was nothing short of brilliant. Maybe I am overrating him, but based on last season I think whatever we could get for him wouldn’t match his potential.
Greetings, Marklar! I am Marklar! This is Marklar.
by marklar on Dec 4, 2008 11:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Agree. So totally agree.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Dec 4, 2008 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
I know it is a little bit of cherry picking, but Sanchez maintained a 3.79 ERA through the end of June. From july onward it exploded to 7.xx.
While ERA isn’t the best predictive indicator, I don’t have a handy way of doing game logs with anything else :) I think there is sufficient evidence to support that somewhere around 100 IP, he became fatigued and started to lose it.
Consider that is about 20 IP higher than he had ever thrown in a season before, that is not surprising.
WHIP of 1.34 before July, 1.64 after.
by FairweatherFan on Dec 4, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
His FIP was around 3.7 and his tRA was very good for the whole year. He just convinced me that he’s at least an average to slightly below average starter, and has potential to be much more. I wouldn’t do the trade even if Cantu was average defensively.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 4, 2008 12:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beat ya to it in my own reply to myself :)
Altho I didn’t bring up tRA. Good to know that agrees.
I expect a breakout season from Sanchez next year.
by FairweatherFan on Dec 4, 2008 12:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I concur.
No he has not arrived like Tim or Cain. But he defiantly show he can throw 100 innings and be very effective (look at his numbers prior to July 1). Keep in mind the League has already seen him so he got no “surprise” factor that some starters get in their first time around the league. So even if he can’t handle enough innings to be starter he has already shown he can do enough innings to relieve at the MLB level.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Dec 4, 2008 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Scooped!
by FairweatherFan on Dec 4, 2008 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
* tips hat*
So I was. So I am.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Dec 4, 2008 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, let us not forget
That Sanchez’s FIP for ’08 was 3.85. Even with his late season struggles, he also feel victim to quite a bit of bad luck.
by FairweatherFan on Dec 4, 2008 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+100000000000^100000000
No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
by Skaldheim on Dec 4, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No way
Sanchez being our biggest trade chip we are sort of) okay letting go in the right deal, this would not be the right deal. Hold out, let Sanchez dominate in the beginning of the year as a starter, and trade him if you have the right deal at the deadline.
There should be absolutely NO rush to get rid of Sanchez.
by Giant Voodoo on Dec 4, 2008 11:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
No.
Wait. No.
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 4, 2008 11:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Remember when Dirty 10 K'd the Madres?
Yeah that was awesome.
And trade Dirty for this guy?
No thanks.
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 4, 2008 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You know thats a good look for him. Compare to the Red photo floating arround here yesterday and tell I’m not right.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Dec 4, 2008 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That day was the greatest day of my life.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 4, 2008 3:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am America and so Cantu
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 4, 2008 11:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
C+.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 4, 2008 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
AT BEST!!!
Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.
by EliminateMe on Dec 4, 2008 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
But if you grade on a curve and factor in howie’s bad jokes, it’s easily a B+
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 5, 2008 7:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Howie is replacement level.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 5, 2008 7:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Easily replaceable!
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 5, 2008 8:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
New Stat
FAHTS
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 5, 2008 9:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
(Funnies Above How They Scored)
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 5, 2008 12:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If i had a nickel for every time a woman told me that…
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Dec 5, 2008 9:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What women are you consorting with who are telling you that I’m easily replaceable?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 5, 2008 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What if you factor in my good joke(s)?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 5, 2008 10:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Find one and we’ll get back to you
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Dec 5, 2008 11:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can’t someone else do it?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 5, 2008 12:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Two-year deal for Renteria
Sabian just announced a two-year, $18.5-million contract with Edgar Renteria. He’s .290 lifetime and hit .270 with 10 HR last season.
Hum-baby!
by Danger on Dec 4, 2008 12:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I’ll believe it when Grant posts about it on the front page!!
by Natto on Dec 4, 2008 12:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cantu at 1st, not 3rd?
I think Cantu’s D would play fine there. Mike Jacobs forces Cantu to play 3rd-Jacobs was a poor fielder at 1st, imagine what he would look like at 3rd. So while Cantu’s defense at 3rd is sub-standard, it would probably be average at 1st. His bat is a bit less valuable at first, because he doesn’t walk enough. But he is still a guy capable of an .800 OPS, 30hr, 100 RBI season. Tell me we don’t need that?
by Gregjitsu on Dec 4, 2008 12:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
also wonder if he can play the OF because those offensive numbers would play well there too.
by wilriv21 on Dec 4, 2008 12:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be great to have. Just not for Sanchez.
by rotorueter on Dec 4, 2008 2:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully Sabean pays attention to Keith Law's chats
Ari (Miami): Seriously, where else can you sign a sure-thing 40 homers. If the Marlins trade Cantu (or Uggla) who do they play at 2nd Boni or Coughlan? Thanks
SportsNation Keith Law: Bonifacio. I can’t believe anyone is thinking of acquiring Cantu. He’s awful. His .327 OBP was his best ever in a full season, and he’s a butcher everywhere he plays. Good luck with that.
Adopted Giant Brian Wilson: One of the few reasons to watch this year.
by sfgreg on Dec 4, 2008 1:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Giants will keep Sanchez...
I believe the Giants will hold onto Jonathan Sanchez. They realize (as I do) that …
1) he has a great arm
2) he is a lefty
3) he made tremendous strides this season (his June performance – 5-1, 3.10 ERA – was dominant), before he wore down a bit (before throwing 158 IP this year, he had thrown a total of 95 in 2006 and 2007, combined)
4) he is only 25
5) the Giants spent 2005 – 2007 trying to screw him up. Felipe Alou thought Sanchez would make a good setup guy/long reliever/spot starter. For the record, Alou also felt Joe Nathan would never reach the heights of someone like Armando Benitez.
All in all, Jonathan Sanchez is a young, hard throwing, lefty that struck out 157 guys in 158 innings this year. And they are only asking him to be the #3 starter. Pitchers like that are the kind you build a rotation with. The Giants should hold on to him.
by kar120c on Dec 4, 2008 1:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
6) He has really well-manicured brows only comparable to Lowry.
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 4, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
7) Bochy pronounces his name san-cheese, which always makes me chuckle
by Fresburg on Dec 4, 2008 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For an organization known for pitching highly doubtt the Giants front office, which has the likes of Dick Tidrow, would allow manger Alou to dictate the pitching decisions. The problem was Sabean pinned his LHP relief hopes on veteran Jeff Fassero. Fassero was horrible. The cost to add a LH relief pitcher was probably prohibitive so the organization decided to call up their LH phenom who had barely pitched above low “A” ball but a few innings.
Bad decision, Hindsight.
by wilriv21 on Dec 4, 2008 2:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
NO
NO
NO
NO
NO
NO
NO
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Dec 4, 2008 1:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nobody can do the skate! like I do.
Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.
by EliminateMe on Dec 4, 2008 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh mamma mia, mamma mia
Mamma mia let me go
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 4, 2008 4:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone have Sabeans Email address?
We should really be sending him these threads.
by FairweatherFan on Dec 4, 2008 1:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
sanchez is a good year behind in his development
thanks to the idiots in the front office who couldnt make up their minds as to whether he was a starter or an rp
his worth will only increase if he gets another full year at sp…and we need a power pitching lefty sp
this trade would be stupid…and therefore, it will happen….cuz sabean is an idiot
by bacci40 on Dec 4, 2008 1:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Dude!
Haven’t seen you in these parts for a while. Nice to see an old familiar handle.
Totally agree on Sanchez’s development getting borked by the yo-yo treatment, too, and that we’d be selling low on him.
No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
by Skaldheim on Dec 4, 2008 2:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No
Hell no.
I mean, HELL no.
In fact, I think this calls for a hearty #%$@#T@#$%T@#$^ NO!
No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
by Skaldheim on Dec 4, 2008 2:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Not a Sanchez fan...
Cantu isn’t worth Sanchez for all of the reasons Grant mentioned. However, I think it’s a little ridiculous sometimes that we all expect Sabean to come up with good hitters without giving them longterm contracts or trading away any talent at all. Personally, I don’t think that Sanchez will ever become a star. A good pitcher, maybe. I kind of see him as Brett Tomko 2.0. He has all of the stuff to make him great, but if he can’t put it all together, what good is he to the Giants? If someone’s willing to take Sanchez for a good position player (better than Cantu), the Giants have to at least listen. Especially given the number of Mulders/Priors out there who could provide essentially the same (poor) pitching at a low price until Lowry returns or a starter is ready in the minors.
If you’re wondering where I’m coming from, note that Tomko’s career WHIP is 1.37, compared with Sanchez’s 1.45 mark from last year (the best of his career). When Tomko was with the Giants, his WHIP was far better than Sanchez’s has ever been. Just like Tomko, he showed flashes of brilliance. But it’s worthless if the end result is a terrible season.
by truebruin on Dec 4, 2008 2:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Tomko also had a Career FIP of 4.56
Which pretty much jives with his career performance.
Sanchez’es FIP of 3.85 last year hardly correlates with this 5.xx ERA.
by FairweatherFan on Dec 4, 2008 2:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Infact, Tomko
Never posted a FIP as good as Sanchez did in ’08. Probably not the best comparison ;0
by FairweatherFan on Dec 4, 2008 2:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Cantu for Sanchez better then what we could have gotten last year
I was greatly opposed to a sanchez for crede trade but isnt a possible 30 hr guy who’s a statue in the field worse then a possible 30 hr guy who’s average or better in the field with health problems? seems like almost a down grade to me. I mean we might as well sign crede now rather then trade a large part of the future for a high risk player that will likely hurt us more then help cuz of his glove
Garlic fries 08
by operation carrot on Dec 4, 2008 3:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Last year the hot rumor was Sanchez for Godzilla
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 4, 2008 5:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No
Please no.
Look at Cantu’s 06 and 07. And his OBP? I wouldn’t trade Noah Lowry for him.
by Mrbasepaul on Dec 4, 2008 5:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yea..
I was going to post this if no one else did. I’d trade Lowry for him easily. Then you don’t really have to put him in the position to be a “STARTER” and perhaps he’d be a fill in. Fill in for Pablo at 3B when he’s catching.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 4, 2008 8:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cantu
Sanchez for Cantu straight up. No. But a bigger deal that includes Uggla yes (or Uggla by himself). Could Cantu be that bad defensively at first base? Then play Pablo at third — I know, I know Pablo doesn’t look like a third baseman, but he’ll only be there one year and then catch when Bengie moves on. This is the first year Cantu’s been given a chance to play regularly, so don’t be quick to downgrade his offense.
Don't believe everything you think.
by wcovington on Dec 4, 2008 6:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
How bad would our D be with?
Cantu at 1B,Uggla at 2B,Renteria at SS & Pablo at 3B?
by hudson101 on Dec 4, 2008 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To rip off someone else
No worse than Castle @ 3rd, Burriss @ SS, Velez @ 2nd, and Bowker @ 1st.
by FairweatherFan on Dec 4, 2008 11:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cantu's Defense
Good to see McLovin digging the defense. We should then never hear any more trade requests for Edwin Encarnacion,
by wilriv21 on Dec 4, 2008 11:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I want to play Cantu at short.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 5, 2008 5:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought thats were CC would be 3 out of 5 days?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Dec 5, 2008 9:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
NO!
There’s only so many ways you can come up with arguments for why that’d be a horrible trade, so i won’t comment much. I’ll just point out that Sanchez had a tRA+ of 113 last year (over the whole year). In context that’s basically an average number 2 starter. I’ll also point out that combining defence & offence, Cantu was the 24th best 3B last year, behind players such as Jack Hannahan & Russell Branyan.
Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!
by GiantFan on Dec 5, 2008 3:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Russell Branyan for the win!
Really, Russell Branyan?
by cornball on Dec 5, 2008 5:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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