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Pat Burrell and the San Francisco Giants

Wow. So I asked the kid next door -- nice kid, good family -- to watch the rumor mill when I was gone. It was just for one day. All he needed to do was let the rumor mill out a few times. When I came back, there were rumors everywhere. On the linoleum, on the carpet...on the curtains? How in the.... That stupid kid got all caught up playing Missile Command at the pizza parlor, or whatever the hell it is that'll distract a kid these days, and forgot to let the rumor mill out. Just look at this mess.

I'll put up separate posts on each of the rumors/signings, which will allow for a slightly less schizophrenic comments section. Look above and below for other posts from today.

Star-divide

Pat Burrell

The Giants are passive-voice interested in Pat Burrell. I'm almost active-voice interested, but not quite. Scenarios:

  1. The deal is longer than three years: Run away. Please. Deal with the fact that it will take a long time to develop power from within, but stay the course.

  2. The Giants trade Randy Winn for something of value in order to make room for Burrell: Jump for joy, and bring in Glenallen Hill to work with Burrell's defense. Winn is a good player, and he would be a fantastic fit for a lot of teams. The Giants aren't really one of those teams, at least when this choice is between Winn and a high-OBP/high-SLG/garbage-defense guy.

  3. The Giants trade Aaron Rowand for anything: Yes, please. Swap one bad contract for a shorter one, move Winn to center for a year, and worry about a long-term replacement next offseason. This is a completely unlikely scenario, though. I'm wondering if the Giants were just ecstatic with Rowand's season last year.

  4. The Giants sign Burrell to put him at first: Uh, really? That's a big risk to take on an expensive free agent, and the Bowker experiment last year should remind us all that you can't just plop a guy down at first and expect him to be acceptable. Sandoval at third, Renteria at short, Frandsen at second, and Burrell at first would be the worst defensive infield in the history of American Legion, much less Major League Baseball. I don't see Sabean going for this one.

  5. The Giants sign Burrell, trade Bengie Molina, move Sandoval to catcher, and look for another third baseman: ya but where are you going to replace all the molina rbis lol moron. Does anyone think that Sabean would even consider this? If the Giants sign Burrell, it's because the Giants want to contend now. Why would the Giants try and contend without their awesomey team leader MVP Bengie Molina? (Note: My sarcasm isn't directed toward Molina, whom I like, but rather toward the idea that he's an indispensable component of the team.)

  6. The Giants sign Burrell with the intention of trading Fred Lewis: Depends on what's coming back, obviously, but I wouldn't be optimistic that the Giants could get fair value. Maybe there's some crazy scenario where Lewis and Jonathan Sanchez bring back a guy like Chris Davis, but that's really, really, really unlikely.

If the Giants are really interested in Burrell, I would think that the last scenario is the likeliest. And it scares me. Maybe the Giants leverage a pre-arbitration, league-average fan favorite into something of tremendous value. Maybe. Probably not. I can see Lewis getting traded for Jason Marquis, and the site's servers melting from the digital rage.

If I knew what else the Giants had up their sleeves, I'd be okay with Burrell. As is, I don't see a fit on this team.

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Comments

Display:

Burrell isn’t quite the same thing as Bowker, because he’s played first base in the past. He played about 50 games there his rookie year, and about 200 games at the position in the minors. Of course, that was all years ago, and I’m not nearly clever enough with defensive statistics to tell you if he was any good at first. I’m guessing not, but in any case, he at least wouldn’t be moving into the position completely blind.

Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly

by jcb9 on Dec 4, 2008 10:45 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

And, for whatever it is worth, his position in college was 1B.

by rotorueter on Dec 4, 2008 11:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, I'm pretty sure he was mostly a 3B

Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Dec 4, 2008 3:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So he and Nate can battle it out for 3B in ST!!!

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 4, 2008 4:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Shhh, groug will hear.

Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Dec 4, 2008 5:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I stand corrected.

by rotorueter on Dec 4, 2008 5:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

3B at Bellarmine and The “U”

I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!

by Giant among Angels on Dec 4, 2008 8:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

  1. agreed.
  1. 2 &#3: I am in the move Rowand camp more. I think Rowand’s "D" will play a lot better in a smaller park. I also believe Winn would be very open to playing here next season. A revisit of Lewis in Center might not be a bad idea at some point this coming season as well.

#4: Kind of comparing Apples to Grapenuts. Bowker was trying to learn to hit at the MLB level after basically skipping AAA while learning a new position.

#5: I am not sure signing Burrell is an all in move. Stashing him at first could open up some interesting trade possibilities between now and August though like you briefly touch on in #6.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 4, 2008 10:48 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wait, when this was first posted, there was a poll attached, and now it seems to be gone. Wha happen?

Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly

by jcb9 on Dec 4, 2008 10:52 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

The poll was Should there be a poll…it was voted down.

You’ve lost a step jcb9.

They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long

by bgunn on Dec 4, 2008 10:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I couldn’t fit the poll in the “Read More” section, so I yanked it. Sorry.

by Grant on Dec 4, 2008 11:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

After I voted (prior to the poll being removed), I noticed it was 100% in favor of #3. Of course, by that point I was the only one who voted…

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Dec 4, 2008 11:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay, numbers 2 and 6 freak me out. You’re underestimating Burrell’s awfulness in the outfield. Fielding Bible has him at -24 and -20 over the last two years. Winn and Lewis are just as good all-around players as Burrell, probably better.

He needs to be a first baseman.

by Evan on Dec 4, 2008 10:59 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, today Buster Olney referenced someone’s (I can’t remember whom) defensive stats which had Burrell as the worst defensive OF in baseball.

by cornball on Dec 4, 2008 12:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I still can’t believe he’s worse than Dunn. (If he is, would you say he’s ranked over-Dunn or under-Dunn.)

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 4, 2008 12:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Does he like gladiator movies?

Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil

by SoFa King Mike on Dec 4, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

On a related note..

My co-worker and I made gladiator helmets at work today. Wow is it going to suck moving to another location where I probably won’t be able to make battle helmets like that.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 4, 2008 8:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s incredible, if true. Worse than Dunn, Ramirez, Ibanez…..wow.

by rotorueter on Dec 4, 2008 2:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Retraction?

I may have to retract. I swear that I read this tidbit somewhere on ESPN today, but now I can’t find it. In any case, all three – Burrell, Dunn, and Ramirez – are tragicomically bad outfielders.

by cornball on Dec 4, 2008 6:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I spoke too soon.

It was Rob Neyer and he was referencing the Fielding Bible, which has Burrell as the worst fielding outfielder in the game…three years in a row. I’m not even angry; I’m just impressed.

by cornball on Dec 4, 2008 6:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm all for signing Burell to a 3 year deal

His power will play well here, and I am confident in his ability to acclimate to 1b. He’s played there before in the majors and quite a bit in the minors. That’s quite a different situation than Bowker.

And regardless, it would be a risk I am willing to take. Sandoval is no lock to be a great defensive 1b and while Ishikawa is pretty decent, his bat has no garauntee to play at the ML level, especially against LHP.

Burell as a right handed bat plays extremely well in SF’s lefty heavy lineup. I’m willing to take the risk on his ability to play 1b. His addition to the heart of the SF order will also make Lewis or whomever else is batting in front of him better.

I like it all around, as long as it is for 3 years or less.

Burell in the outfield however is a nonstarter.

by FairweatherFan on Dec 4, 2008 11:01 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

rBurell rin rthe routfield rhowever ris ra rnonstarter.

Fixed.

Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.

by Lyle on Dec 5, 2008 2:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

iawtc

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Dec 4, 2008 1:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yes on any deal that brings chris davis to SF!

by cazzuno on Dec 4, 2008 1:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

1b

I am pretty sure the only reason Burrell played LF was b/c of the presence of Thome. He was 1B in the minors, no?

Pedro Feliz would look great in Dodger Blue.

by irwin on Dec 4, 2008 1:26 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I am pretty sure they had Travis Lee, Thome & Howard at first sicne Burrell was there. Those last 2 would be mighty hard to unseat from first.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 4, 2008 2:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And Frankly

Playing an acceptable 1b isn’t rocket science.

If you can catch the ball, you’re halfway there.

I mean, even I can play 1b in the league I’m in, and I’m not exactly super talented ;)

by FairweatherFan on Dec 4, 2008 2:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s what she said

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 4, 2008 4:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

She said that she’s not exactly super talented? Or that he’s not super talented? Or that if he can catch the ball he’s halfway there?

I find this joke to be a poorly constructed use of a common joke. I give it a 2/10.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 4, 2008 8:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And you knew that, as bad as Burrell was in LF, Thome or Howard would have been 1000 times worse.

by rotorueter on Dec 4, 2008 2:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But wouldn't that have been good comedy act to have have seen those 2 playing the corner outfield spots?

Even for just a couple innings.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 4, 2008 3:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

irwin?

It’s been a while hasn’t it?

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 4, 2008 8:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

YAY!

Irwin’s back!!!!!!!!!!!

Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.

by Lyle on Dec 5, 2008 2:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Eh..

did we really need a lawyer back?

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 5, 2008 9:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He played about 100 games at first in the minors and about 60 in the outfield.

I previously said he played 200 at 1B in the minors, but that’s because I was misreading his stats:

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=1996

Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly

by jcb9 on Dec 4, 2008 1:41 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Oops, this was supposed to be a response to irwin’s post above.

Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly

by jcb9 on Dec 4, 2008 1:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If you weren’t so excitable, that never would have happened.

by Evan on Dec 4, 2008 1:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m all for the idea of plopping Burrell at first. Having lefty Ishikawa behind him on the bench would be perfect too, especially as a defensive replacement in later innings/ double switches.

"I didn't know (after seeing a spectacular over-the-shoulder catch) whether to shit or go blind." - Former Giants Outfielder Harvey Kuenn on Willie Mays

by stealth snail on Dec 4, 2008 3:41 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

And the fact that Burrell can play some LF gives Bochy some additional flexibility.

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 4, 2008 4:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Just like..

Klesko and Sweeney were!

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 4, 2008 8:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It’s weird how quickly we forget. Gone a short time and I can’t even picture him naked anymore.

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 5, 2008 8:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cool

with this, would like to see Rowand and Winn moved, and see Nate Fred Burrell.
Wow, that’d be crappy outfield

by Mrbasepaul on Dec 4, 2008 5:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Burrell at 1b

Don’t even consider playing him in the OF, and from what I’ve read he’s not much better at first, but he’d be a fine #5 behind Uggla or Texiera. See, I can be delusional too.

Don't believe everything you think.

by wcovington on Dec 4, 2008 6:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

what about uggla AND teixeira?

"I didn't know (after seeing a spectacular over-the-shoulder catch) whether to shit or go blind." - Former Giants Outfielder Harvey Kuenn on Willie Mays

by stealth snail on Dec 4, 2008 9:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Burrell at 1st

Baseball Almanac says that Burrell, in the 58 games he played at first for the 2000 Phillies, had a ZR of .838 and a fielding pct of .988. Some fans have hoped that the Giants would get Prince Fielder, who would actually cost us in a trade: he has ZRs of .813, .804, and .798 over the last three years and a .990 fielding pct.

by campanari on Dec 5, 2008 1:55 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I’d certainly be pleased with Burrell, if he came on a 3 year deal (or less), but it’d be with the intention of him playing 1B.

You’ve obviously got to take what Sabean says with a pinch of salt, but he seemed to suggest that we weren’t looking for outfielders & so if we were to sign Burrell (which i don’t think we will) then it’d be to play first. Which makes sense given our comparative options at the postions & Burrell’s poor defence.

Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!

by GiantFan on Dec 5, 2008 2:58 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

My Plan

Sign Burrell to play 1B, trade Molina and put Sandoval at C, trade Sanchez for Cantu, trade Winn and call up Nate, and sign Adam Dunn.

C: Sandoval
1B: Burrell
2B: Velez
SS: Renteria
3B: Cantu
RF: Nate
CF: Rowand
LF: Dunn

Projected pitchers’ BABIP: .489.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Dec 5, 2008 6:30 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

If you really hated the pitchers, you’d play Dunn in RF and stick Dave Roberts in CF! You could have -10 defenders at almost every position.

/deer head
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Dec 5, 2008 6:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I tried it keep it somewhat realistic. There’s really no reason to play Roberts over Rowand, and no one is stupid enough to play Dunn in our RF. My roster obviously isn’t going to happen, but it’s made out of signing and trades that all looked possible at some point.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Dec 5, 2008 7:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Where does Fred Lewis go? the bench?

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 5, 2008 8:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh man

We can start Lewis in CF when Rowand is injured. That defense would really be about 100 runs below average.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Dec 5, 2008 9:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

“the outer outfield”

by wilriv21 on Dec 5, 2008 10:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wheelin it big!

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 5, 2008 12:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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