Free Agent Options for Third and First Base
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 30, 2008 11:32 AM PST
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PrintIt’s been pointed out before, but Pablo Sandoval and Travis Ishikawa need a right-handed complement who can play first and third. Really, that’s the only move I expect, nay, demand that the Giants make. It isn’t a very exciting demand. It’s kind of like demanding homemade cakey bread with a bunch of crappy nuts and/or dried fruit around the holidays. Doable – likely, even – but unexciting. You can see why other people are clamoring for an Xbox 360 or a Wii (Prince Fielder and Dan Uggla, respectively), but you’re sacrificing excitement for realistic expectations. Good for you.
With that out of the way, it should be noted that I fell asleep five times while writing this. Here’s what’s left:
***
Rich Aurilia
Pro:
Laugh if you must, but he can still hit lefties. He’s a familiar and likable player, and I wouldn’t have to put his bobblehead in storage with Moises Alou.
Con:
His defense at third is abysmal; he’s a third baseman because he was a third baseman, not because he deserves to be now. The biggest con is that Bruce Bochy would keep penciling Aurilia’s name into the lineup. Tough lefty? Aurilia at first. Tough righty? Aurilia at third. Bases loaded in the fourth inning? Sit down, Travis, because Aurilia’s going up to pinch hit.
Holiday gift equivalent:
A DVD of X-Men 3, which isn’t the worst movie in the world. But you just returned a copy to Blockbuster, dang it. You don’t want to watch that thing again.
***
Ty Wigginton
Pro:
He can play every position except for catcher, short, and center. He’s hit 20 home runs or more for three straight years.
Con:
Wigginton isn’t a good defensive player, and he’d probably want a two-year, if not a three-year, deal. Other teams are interested, and in a weak free-agent market for corner infielders, his price might get high enough to affect the 2010 budget. The biggest con is that Bruce Bochy wouldn’t realize that Wigginton shouldn’t hit much against right-handed pitching. He’d get 500 at-bats, easy.
Holiday gift equivalent:
A shiny new mobile phone! It kind of handles your e-mail, it kind of replaces your organizer, and it only drops every other call. You just need to sign up for a two-year contract. Also, the "6" key doesn’t work. And Bochy keeps racking up overage charges.
***
Josh Phelps (1B)/Kevin Frandsen (3B)
Pro:
They’re already here, and they’re cheap. Phelps would be the best power hitter on the roster.
Con:
They’d take up two roster spots, and Frandsen really isn’t much of a third baseman. And if you’re counting on Frandsen starting several games at third, that means the Giants would need to keep Burriss or Velez to start at second. That was probably going to happen anyways, but it is a little constricting to commit to that before spring training.
Holiday gift equivalent:
Not receiving any banana bread, which forces you to make Special K with packets of creamer you found in your car. Hey, it beats going to the store.
***
Joe Crede
Pro:
He might be cheap. Bay City Ball makes a pretty good case for Crede.
Con:
If healthy, he’d be the Starting Third Baseman, which would mean that Sandoval and Ishikawa would split at-bats at first. Sandoval at first is kind of a waste, but Sandoval getting a bulk of his at-bats at first when lefties pitch is a total waste. And even when he was healthy, Crede was never anything special. He’s like Pedro Feliz with five extra walks per season. That isn’t worth the at-bats he’d take from Sandoval.
Holiday gift equivalent:
A Nintendo 64, with a copy of Quake, one controller, and an instruction manual for Super Mario 64 to fuel your dreams.
***
I’m not loving any of those, but if I had to choose, I’d go with Wigginton on a two-year deal for less than $6M per. If that isn’t enough money, I’d stick with Frandsen and Phelps.
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Crede on a 1 year deal. Otherwise go with what we have.
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 30, 2008 11:36 AM PST reply actions
What is it about Crede that makes him appealing?
I just don’t see him being worth much to this team. We might as well just go with Ishikawa/Phelps and Sandoval at the corners- that way we’d get to see if Pablo and Ishikawa are for real. I think signing Crede would just be pointless
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 30, 2008 7:19 PM PST up reply actions
If your not for Crede you are against him. There is no middle ground. Make up your mind puss.
by ned colletti's mustache on Dec 30, 2008 7:44 PM PST up reply actions
Is having a mind puss the female version of a man thinking with his dick?
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 30, 2008 7:49 PM PST up reply actions
If they are going to sign a 3B, better a 1-year deal to someone like Crede than some multiyear deal to a player we are going to end up hating. Pablo can get his AB’s splitting time with Molina or in a 1B platoon.
For the record, I am OK going with what the Giants have right now.
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 30, 2008 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
Crede/Rowand slashfic
I think we’re going for cheap, stopgap players who can help add a win or two to last year’s win total. I think Crede will be cheap and I defer to stat analysts below as to whether he’ll add a win or two. He definitely fits the stopgap part.
Looking into my Predictatron 3000, I see...
Nomar Garciaparra signing an incentive-laden deal.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
But I’m not sure who to take for third base. I like Crede but Sandoval really loses some value when he goes to first.
My perfect scenario would be the Giants trade Molina for something good, move Sandoval to catcher and sign Crede for third base. I think that makes the most sense if you think Sandoval can catch, which the opinion of seems to vary.
Here’s a WAR spreadsheet with that scenario. Sandoval at catcher, Phelps as the platoonmate for Ishikawa at first base, and Joe Crede at third base.
It bumps the win total by about +1 win. Going from +15.5 wins — in my original WAR projection — on offense to +16.5 wins.
If we don’t trade Molina, adding Crede and shifting Sandoval to first costs half a projected WAR.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
Last I checked it added about a +0.5 wins which was the main sticking point for the Anti-Credites on BCB.
I do get that Sandoval’s value doesn’t work as well at first base, which does poke some holes in my Crede theory, but I just worry about how well he can defend at third base. -5 runs? -10 runs? -15 runs? I can see him either being ‘okay’ or being ‘omgterrible’. If he’s fielding like a wounded Garrett Atkins, the Giants are going to have problems.
He really should be catching. He’s a +2 win player probably at catcher, even with -5 or so defense. He’s got the arm to catch but the Giants seem uninterested in keeping him behind the plate at the major league level.
A lot of scouts and baseball people say that 1B is the only position Sandoval is capable of playing, so while moving him to 1B may lower his value on computer models, it might be necessary. I am very much a non-believer in the idea of playing Sandoval at 3B and don’t even think it should be an option. If you are of the opinion that “we are not likely to contend in 2009 so we might as well let Sandoval try to play 3B before assuming that he can’t” then I can see some wisdom in that. Ishaikawa’s resurgence last year was nice to see, but I would not be the least bit upset to see him as bench player.
I think the team is best with Crede at 3B and Sandoval at 1B.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 30, 2008 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
I just don’t think Sandoval has the bat to carry first, so if the organization doesn’t have him penciled in at catcher long term, I’d rather he be tried out at third sooner rather than later.
Besides, the best thing Pablo has going for him on D is his arm.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
If he doesn’t have the bat to play 1B then I don’t think he has the bat to be one of the worst 3B in the league. For him to have a long MLB career he is either going to have top be an adequate defensive Catcher or have the bat to play 1B.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 30, 2008 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
I guess I still see his 3B defense as a maybe but I see him not having the bat for first as a probably.
I’m glad i’m not a GM.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
I've never seen such irrational exuberance for a Giants hitter
No patience, no position, platoon issues dwarfed only by his waistline.
Go, Ishikawa, Go!.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
First base, first stop?
If Pablo Sandoval is able only to play first base, he likely won’t remain a Giant long-term, since that position will likely be taken by Angel Villalona by 2012.
I see Pablo’s top value coming as a super-utilityman, splitting time between his three positions. If he is a first baseman only, I don’t think he will hit well enough. As mentioned, his best value would be at catcher, and he might be OK at third base if he can field the hot corner acceptably.
But long-term I see him playing all three positions — and perhaps even some outfield, which Tim Lincecum suggest for him last season. Pablo would likely need to keep his weight down, but that will likely help him no matter WHERE he plays.
I think Pablo will be a good hitter, not a great one. I think his bat would be above-average for a catcher, but not for the other two positions. I think his versatility can add to his value though, since he could plug any of several holes, depending on the circumstance, and could help keep Buster Posey’s legs fresh.
Since Pablo hits best left-handed, ideally he would complement right-handed hitters. With Posey and Angel Villalona, that would be the case. If Conor Gillaspie becomes the third baseman, it wouldn’t. The Giants’ outfield is also left-handed bat heavy, although Rafael Rodriguez might change that around a bit late 2012 or early in 2013. On the other hand, the Giants’ only purely right-handed hitting outfielder right now is Aaron Rowand, whose contract runs out at the end of the 2012 season.
Pablo will probably need to be versatile to help the Giants to his potential. Otherwise, they might be best off trading him to a team who needs a good-hitting catcher. Lefty-hitting catchers are rare, so Pablo would seem to have nice value there, assuming he can handle the position. It would probably be easy to complement him with good fielding, right-handed hitting catcher. That type of backup isn’t hard to find.
Still, I think his versatility coupled with Posey’s give the Giants an unusual opportunity. Imagine catcher and the corners being split some day between Posey, Sandoval, Gillaspie and Villalona — with Buster and Pablo also gaining time at other positions. That could turn out rather sweetly — and would give the Giants good protection against injury.
just playing with your spreadsheet, looks like Sandoval’s WAR declines by almost a full win when moved to first, and Crede’s projection only upgrades on Sandoval at third by 1/5th of a WAR.
I realize the projections are just that, but I feel like the case for Crede is more than a little sketchy.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
Yeah, it’s going to come down to how well Sandoval can actually field third base. I’ve got him as a -6 defender which might be generous, I dunno.
We don’t really know how he’ll do at first, either.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
I would assume it would be safer to assume he would have an easier time with first than third
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Dec 30, 2008 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
I assume the same, and he’s got more experience at first base. Unlike Bowker, who was just dropped at the position, Sandoval has played 154 games at first base in his minor league career.
Any breakdown of how innings he has played at certain positions this offseason?
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Dec 30, 2008 2:54 PM PST up reply actions
I wish I knew.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
Most winter league stats are really crude, so I doubt any of them will have splits for defensive type stuff. Usually the most you can find is leaderboards for offensive stats.
yeah, that’s all that’s up on mlb.com
/shrugs
There’s no data, so we just go off instinct. I thought he looked pretty good at third last year.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
Well, Damn it all to hell!
Next year we need to have a fundraiser to send a McCoven member to each offseason site.
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Dec 30, 2008 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
Baron would go
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
Then its done.
btw, love the new sig
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Dec 30, 2008 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
thanks
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
I wonder
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Dec 30, 2008 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
If we keep replying here
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Dec 30, 2008 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
and Oldj does too
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Dec 30, 2008 6:23 PM PST up reply actions
if his sig
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Dec 30, 2008 6:23 PM PST up reply actions
would end up
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Dec 30, 2008 6:23 PM PST up reply actions
drowning him.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Dec 30, 2008 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
dunno
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
Mystery solved.
You’re worse than Google.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Dec 30, 2008 9:21 PM PST up reply actions
thinking:
If Pablo is a -12 defender or worse, then Crede makes sense.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
Yeah, I think I agree with that. He’s going to have to be in the -10 range probably to justify Crede. That’s essentially Garrett Atkins.
if Garret Atkins is -10 I would bet Pablo is about -17 (of course that projection is based on pretty much nothing)
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 30, 2008 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
Garrett Atkins is the worst defender in the history of the NL, AL, NBA, and NFL.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 30, 2008 8:28 PM PST up reply actions
and I think the only thing standing between Pablo Sandoval and that title is the opportunity to play 140 games at third base.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 30, 2008 9:08 PM PST up reply actions
Why?
Being fat doesn’t always mean being unable to play defense. Open your mind. Watching the guy. He is way quicker and more athletic then you would expect. I think he has a shot to be a plus defender at 3B.
by giantsrainman on Dec 30, 2008 11:23 PM PST up reply actions
Regardless if he is fat or not is not really the point. Yes, he is athletic and quick.
Though, putting someone who is relatively new to 3B is not the greatest idea. It isn’t like we are talking about someone like A-Rod moving from SS to 3B. If his future is in the infield (or not) 1B is much less demanding alternative to play him. Even though 1B does have some tough plays such as the 3-6-3 DP, but his arm strength would probably make up for for this.
3B requires a cleaner field of the ball whereas 1B will give him more time to make the play if it is not fielded cleanly.
It is not so much of “open your mind” as it is that FLS and other skeptics are thinking rationally that Pablo would do more bad than good at 3B and be less of a liability at a less demanding position such as 1B.
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Dec 30, 2008 11:45 PM PST up reply actions
The figures
I thought the figures showed Pablo to have fared well at third last season. I don’t remember his range being limited, but I do remember that he was laboriously slow with his release.
Still, it seemed on the few occasions when he really needed to get rid of the ball in a hurry, he did so effectively.
I thought John Dewan had him at a +4, although I see that Baseball Prospectus has him at a -1 and at only a 90 overall. BP rated him at 100 as a catcher and 109 at first base.
The Giants seem to believe he can play third base acceptably. They weren’t interested in Jorge Cantu or Edwin Encarnacion due to their defensive deficiencies at the hot corner, but Brian Sabean seemed to think that wouldn’t be a problem with Pablo.
UZR thought he was fantastic in his limited sample last year, but of course defensive metrics should be taken with a grain of salt, some lime and tequila with that small a number of games.
I just thought he looked like he knew what he was doing at third last year, and I don’t trust scouts for a second to evaluate a fat boy’s defense. They have all sorts of body type prejudices.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
The body prejudice thing is a good point, but Pablo’s bUZR stats from last season at third base don’t mean anything at all. So don’t worry about them.
I don’t really.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
CALM DOWN!!!1
I was speaking in general, and I meant to reply to Rog but I somehow replied to you.
reply fail
Geez, so is oldjacket a hothead like jcb, too. All these redasses piss me off!
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
tell you a secret
I really hate Jeff Goldblum.
I guess that makes me 100% rage
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
He’s a dumb guy that always plays smart guys.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
Nature finds a way!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 31, 2008 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
"Insects don't have politics."
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 1, 2009 3:34 AM PST up reply actions
Im curious
Do the win projections for defense take into account Sandoval’s ability to call a game? Granted he seemed ok last year in his small sampling at catcher, and veteran catcher’s ability to call games and handle a staff are shall we say overplayed, but at the same time it’s a pretty important skill to have. If it wasn’t, Buster would probably be in the majors to start the year because I’m guessing his overall catching skills with blocking the plate and all that are on par with Sandoval or Molina already. Since both being overweight kind of hinders their mobility behind the plate.
I don't think they do
Probably because every study I’ve read ranks the impact of game calling ability somewhere between non-existent and imperceptibly small.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
very study I’ve read ranks the impact of game calling ability somewhere between non-existent and imperceptibly small
…amongst MLB catchers.
Most studies also show that the difference between a truly terrible SS and an average one is about 15-20 runs. Does that mean that you might as well put anyone at SS and you’d only lose 15-20 runs? Of course not – put a three legged dog Manny Ramirez at SS and you’d easily lose 100 runs. It’s just that players who would be 100 runs below average don’t even get a chance to play there, so they don’t appear in the studies. Same thing with catchers – the only thing that those studies prove is that, amongst players who are given the chance to play catcher, there seems to be little to no differnce between “good” game callers and “bad” ones (or at least not one that is statistically detectable). That does not necessarily mean that a completely incompetent catcher – the kind that would never even get a chance to play there regularly (like Posey right now, or possibly Sandoval) – wouldn’t be able to hurt his team if he did get a chance.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
I get the argument
But I’m skeptical as to its worth. I don’t think players who can’t call a game make it out of the low minors without changing positions, particularly in teams so focused on developing pitching prospects.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I don’t think players who can’t call a game make it out of the low minors without changing positions
Players only start to call games in the minors, I think around A+ ball, though I’m not sure. I’m not even talking about talent right now, just pure experience – Posey has never called a game in his life, and I think this year was Sandoval’s first time, since it was his first full year at catcher since 2005. It’s not that they don’t have a chance to be decent game callers, but maybe right now they’re incompetent.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
I am pretty sure that the elite catchers are calling games before minors. Whether it is in HS or College ball. Also their are a lot of different variables that go into calling a game such as (i believe most importantly) how well they know their pitching staff and their tendencies.
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Jan 2, 2009 6:17 PM PST up reply actions
I went with Crede because I have an irrational dislike for Wigginton and Aurilia gets too much playing time from Bochy. Crede on a short term deal would fit well with the other moves they made this year.
by out machine on Dec 30, 2008 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
I’m really MEH with a lot of these guys. I could deal with Crede or Wiggy for 1 or 2 years tops. Will they be worth it short term? It’s not like we have budding 3B prospects at the moment. Though, it’s hard not to want Pablito’s bat constantly in the lineup. So I’ll just take my chances with Paul Stanley.
BTW who else has the Moises bobblehead the GAINTS uniform?
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 30, 2008 11:45 AM PST reply actions
I'm reminded of the South Park Episode
where Stan has to choose between a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich.
I don't get it
Hasn’t Bochy handled platoons pretty reasonably in the past? His handling of Dave Roberts in SD comes to mind.
And lets remember that he’s being judged in relation to his piers, not how you manage your team in MLB2k8. I get the impression that MLB managers as a whole are fairly reticent to platoon.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I’m just afraid that if we sign Wiggington/Crede/Aurilia that Bochy will be too tempted to start them at 3rd. I’d like Pablo and Ishikawa to get as many at-bats as possible next season.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
I'm with Pete on this
The Bochy Factor™ sways my choice to the Phelps/Frandsen ticket. Having Frandsen as the backup 3B exerts pressure on Bochy to keep Pablo at 3B as much as possible, which – barring Xanthan’s (and my) preference for trading Molina and making Pablo the catcher – is probably for the best. Plus, Phelps is a maverick, and Frandsen can see Sausalito from his house. I vote for them.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
Phelps/Frandsen
Wigginton would be starting at either 1B or 3B. 1B would be better with Pablo at 3B, but then what happens to the Ishi/Phelps platoon?
I like the previously stated idea of trading Molina and putting Pablo behind the plate, but I don’t see Sabean or Bochy trusting the starting catcher position to someone so lacking in veteran savvyness.
Greetings, Marklar! I am Marklar! This is Marklar.
I’ve been jonesing for some home made tamales for the holidays. Every year Mrs ResDog & MominLaw ResDog make up a mouth-watering batch. If made with the whole familia, I’ve got tamales for months. This year the family isn’t up for it and with it just being the two of them they didn’t think it was worth the effort. I’ve been asking, begging, demanding, pleading whatever I can to get some holiday tamales. Last night, I heard them on the phone making arrangements to go to the market to pick up the ingrediants & have a big batch ready on New Years Day.
My point is, I’m getting home-made tamales in two days!
Oh, and I think if we don’t get Dunn/Burrell to play first I’d prefer to go with what we already got (Phelps,Frandsen). I think Pat Burrell would like tamales.
Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.
I like homemade Tamales.
There’s a guy who sells them at the 16th and P (Sacramento) farmer’s market in the summer. They’re like mexican polenta.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
How long has there been a farmer’s market at 16th and P? I’m slightly shocked.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
Mexican polenta sounds awful
But I do love tamales.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
creamy corn meal with tomato, meat and peppers sounds bad to you?
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
I should have used quotes
“Mexican polenta” just doesn’t sound that appealing. I’d probably like it if it was made well, though.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
I’d be okay with Wiggy if Bochy promised to use him in a platoon. And if he took platoon player money.
I would feel pretty bad for our pitcher on the days where Wiggy and Phelps manned the corners, though.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
More than a Ty
If the Giants signed Ty Wigginton, I probably wouldn’t keep Josh Phelps up too — at least not to start very often. I would man catcher and the two corner infield slots primarily with Bengie Molina, Pablo Sandoval, Wigginton and Travis Ishikawa/John Bowker. I guess if the Giants were to keep only two catchers (including Sandoval) and sent Emmanuel Burress out for seasoning or put Eugenio Velez on waivers, the Giants could keep both Wigginton and Phelps.
if Phelps could play both first and third, he would probably be my first choice on a reward/cost basis. But he doesn’t play third, so I’m less comfortable with that. Assuming the Giants send Burriss out for seasoning, they would likely have Kevin Frandsen playing the majority of games at second base PLUS backing up at both shortstop and third base. That doesn’t sound like good balance.
I think I would play Wigginton, Joe Crede, Rich Aurilia and perhaps even Juan Uribe off against each other, with Phelps as my fall-back position. I wouldn’t sign Crede unless I was satisfied with his health, since his back problems seemed to bother him not only at bat last season, but also in the field.
I was happy with the Giants just turning things over to the young guys, but their signing four free agents strongly indicates their desire to at least have a CHANCE to become competitive this season while not damaging their prospects in the long run.
i voted for turd sandwich
We all know that Aurilia would be overplayed. That’s not a likeable option.
Assuming Phelps has a good spring and Frandsen’s injury-free, I’d go with that option. Most of my concerns about the other options stem from Bochy’s inherent desire to not play prospects when there is another viable option. Sandoval & Ishi should be getting a lot of playing time this year to see if they are going to be in the mix in the years to come. Aurilia, Crede, and Wiggington would jeopardize that, methinks.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
Sign Aurillia for the Bench, Give Sandoval third for the at bats and platoon Phelps and Ishi at first. Throw Frandsen, Velez, and Burris at second and see what sticks.
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Dec 30, 2008 2:34 PM PST reply actions
Problem is,
Bochy has a mancrush on Aurilia — having him on the roster is too much of a temptation. (This is the same reason I really hope the Dbacks don’t re-sign Tony Clark)
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
Still cant stop thinking of him?
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Dec 30, 2008 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
I can’t stop thinking about the time I saw him throw a bat in the direction of A’s catcher Kurt Suzuki. He seems like an ass-hat.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
I missed that clip. He has a little D Young in him?
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Dec 30, 2008 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
I was at the game
I’m also a slight A’s fan (ducks).
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
Jesus is Plan B.
anyone want to make a joke out of that?
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
/fearful of lightning strike
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Dec 30, 2008 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
Jesus Chrysler drives a Dodge.
And the Virgin Mary’s at the Travelin’ Lodge.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Dec 30, 2008 6:30 PM PST up reply actions
Carrie Underwood's song
is worse.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
by DbacksSkins on Dec 31, 2008 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
Aurilia
Bring back Richie on a one year deal. He can backup most infield positions and would be cheaper than other free agent options. If Sandoval can’t cut it at 3rd give the starts to Rich or see what Jesus can do.
Frandsen should be the starting 2nd baseman. Burris needs another year in the minors and Velez is horrible.
Crede has Boras for an agent which makes him evil and Wigginton’s stats are horrible outside of Minute Maid.
by ned colletti's mustache on Dec 30, 2008 2:57 PM PST reply actions
Frandsen and Phelps
… gives us a year to evaluate Sandoval, Ishikawa, Frandsen and Velez/Burriss.
Velez and Frandsen getting enough time in the infield keeps them out of the outfield, where you know Bochy would spot start them…
Which means more ABs for Nate.
He needs to be in those 2-3 games a week where Lewis, Rowand and Winn get rest. Needs it.
Brian Sabean figures that if he buys enough bottles, one of them is bound to have lightning in it.
Another alternative to throw out there.
Sabean has said (rightly) that he wouldn’t trade Sanchez away for a player in the last year of his contract. It makes no sense to send away Sanchez for a rental. But does that apply to a minor league pitcher who may not figure into the Giants’ long term plans anyway? Specifically, if you were prepared to go with Pablo for a year at 3B and let Frandsen back him up, would you be willing to take Hank Blalock for 1B in exchange for Joe Martinez?
The Giants won’t, and shouldn’t offer any of their other potential starters for Blalock, certainly not Sosa or Pucetas. And the Rangers are more interested seemingly in dumping Blalock’s salary and getting some pitching in return. Plus, we’d have Ishi for a defensive backup.
Yes, Blalock would cost a little over $6 million IIRC. But it would be for only one year, and not tie us into anything more than that with the chance that if Blalock has a good year, we might get something for him. And it allows us to get Blalock’s bat at a position he can still handle defensively. Before people throw stones at Blalock’s bat, they should check out his September numbers after he returned from the DL. (Yes, it was Arlington, but he still had a damn good month overall.)
If Joe Martinez doesn’t figure into the team’s plans as a starter, why not try and get something for him that could help in 2009?
Matt Cain's drinking buddy
Adrian Beltre
He will be a free agent after ’09. Save the $6-mil by passing on Wigginton this year and roll it over to a $12-mil deal for Beltre in ’10.
I don’t see anything wrong with this plan.
by VizquelQuest on Dec 30, 2008 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
He’s saying wait ’til Beltre hits FA after the season is over.
I like this plan, too. Let Pablo play 3B all year to see what he’s got there. By then, Molina will be gone, so there would be more options for Pablo at that point and we’ll know where Posey is. If Pablo does well at 3B and Posey is ready for the show in 2010, we wouldn’t need Beltre and could use that money for a 1B or for locking down Tim.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I’d be thrilled if Posey was ready by 2010. It’s a little quick, but he does seem like one of those guys with so much natural talent that being groomed in the minors is almost a waste of time. Like Timmy.
I personally think Pablo will do just fine at third this year, which would thankfully be the best case scenario as far as I’m concerned, unless Buster proves himself incapable behind the plate. I’ve never read such mixed scouting reports- some say he’s a plus defender, others say he’ll struggle. I guess we’ll see
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 31, 2008 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
Posey's defense
The reason for the mixed reports is he’s got some things he is really good at, and some things he really needs to work on. His tools are outstanding. Everything a catcher needs to do from an athleticism standpoint, he can do. He’s got a cannon, he’s quick and agile, has very good instincts, and has soft hands. However, from a tactical standpoint, he doesn’t have any experience at calling games, and his ability to read hitters in a big question mark.
Lincecum reached the bigs quickly because he was a complete pitcher the day he signed with Giants. It’s a different situation with Posey because he plays the most complex position, and he’s only been playing it for a couple years. I’m not saying 2010 is out of the question. At this point however, I’m leaning towards 2011 or even 2012 as a timetable. No need to rush him though. Two more years of Bengie Molina would be fine. Heck, Pablo Sandoval may even be everyday ready behind the plate by 2010 … if he isn’t already.
My bet is we see him opening day of 2011 after 2 full years in the minors. That would be moving very quick for a Catcher.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 31, 2008 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, he'll get to start the year
with Decker at AA this year, and then probably get a full year at Fresno in 2010, if all goes well. My bigger question is what they do with Pablo during this time, aside from his likely placement at a corner this year. Does it make any sense to let Pablo have catcher for only one season after being at a corner in 2009, or will they extend Molina one more year? It probably all depends on whether or not this team competes next season.
Matt Cain's drinking buddy
Might as well extend Molina
rather than have Pablo bounced around between positions for the next two seasons. Still, I’m hoping Posey tears it up in AA and gets an 09 call up to AAA. If he plays well there, I don’t see why he shouldn’t be on the big league club in 2010.
I know that’s counting on a lot, but we’ll see. I’m gonna have almost as much fun following our minor league teams as I will following the Giants this year.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
Ty Wigginton
has really shitty splits, and played in Minute Maid. Crede played in a hitters park, but nothing is as utterly ridiculous as the Maid. An aside, I hate everything about that park… the left field wall, that stupid-ass hill, and Lance Berkman.
I think that Crede is the best option, as Wigginton has never had a year like Crede’s 2006. That said, it appears his back is totally fucked. If he’s healthy I think he could hit 30 homeruns again, which I would appreciate. If his back will never return, then I say pass and stick with what we have. I would love to see Phelps get 250 AB’s… I also think that will never happen.
Start the year with Pablo at 3rd
If he can’t do it, i think we’ll know in a couple months, won’t have to be all year. Molina’s in his walk year and we should be exploring trade options all the way ‘til the deadline. If Sandoval can’t play third, trade Molina, replace him with Sandoval.
The optimist within tells me Sandoval will be able to hold it down at 3rd and start there against rights. Against lefties move Frandsen to 3rd (Lefty masher, All-WAC defender WOOHOOO), start Burriss at 2nd against lefties, with Phelps doing his thing at 1st.
What happens if Sandoval can’t hold it down at 3rd? Hopefully Jesus rakes in Fresno and improves on his D a bit, that’s what coaches are for!
Righties: 1B: Ishi 2B: Franny 3B: Pablo. Lefties: 1B: Phelps 2B: Burris 3B: Frandsen
formerly April3rdLifeBegins
by YaSquare on Dec 30, 2008 5:39 PM PST reply actions
Sooner rather than later
Because of the handshake agreement between SF and Conor Gillaspie to add him to the 40-man roster, the Giants are going to have to give this kid a serious look. The meter is already running.
The meter still has three years left, right?
Or is it 4?
On the roster or no, I don’t think he’s particularly close to MLB ready.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I agree. Conor is not as good as he thinks he is. At least, he isn’t right now.
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 30, 2008 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
That’s the problem. While he is nowhere near ready yet the clock is ticking. Assuming he begins the season in San Jose. Baggs mentioned he is very cocky kid who has stated he can already hit as well as the MLers
Time shouldn't be a problem
Won’t Conor Gillaspie have three more years of options? If he is going to help the Giants as much as they think, he should be ready by then.
If Conor isn’t ready in three years, the Giants might indeed lose him. But if he isn’t ready by then, how large would the loss truly loom?
Just say no to mediocre free agents
If you can get a good free agent. Just go with our young players, at least they have an upside.
Fuck Wigginton
He sounds too much like Hillenbrand. They don’t really rhyme as well as I thought. But my prevailing thought is still the same.
THIS IS A SINKIN SHIP!
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 31, 2008 8:02 AM PST up reply actions
Who cares about some 4th outfielder who got 50-odd at bats?
I just don’t get the Ledee hatred.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
no joe crede, no way. Rich Arilia is a better career hitter than Crede. He’s a waste of a spot on the 40 man roster, would take too many ABs from Sandoval, would cause Sandoval an endless job of bouncing between first and third, and he last season he played the defensive equivelant of Jose Castillo. I’d go with Sandoval and Ishikawa and wait out the winter. If wiggy falls to the Giants at 2/12 or less I’d consider that otherwise maybe Aurilia for 1 more season. If they wait long enough in this market, the right trade may just come along for a real hitter…
Mark De Rosa
might be available now that Cubs signed Aaron Miles, he had 20 jacks last year and can play every single infield posiiton
Aaron Miles sucks.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
that trade actually helps the Giants a bit
Now that the Indians no longer need a 3B (assuming they move Cabrerra to SS and Peralta to 3B) who is left needing a 3B? The Giants and Twins obviously, maybe the Reds, maybe the Astros. Fewer teams bidding for Crede and Wigginton should help the price stay down.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 31, 2008 4:19 PM PST up reply actions
Didn't You Guys See Bhaakon's Fanshot?
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2008/12/30/705566/no-more-big-signings
The Giants have maxed out on signings of Type A/B Free Agents. The limit this year is four and we have already signed four (Affeldt, Howry, Renteria, and Johnson). Wigginton is Type B and therefore we can not sign him. We are left to choose between Crede, Aurilia, trade, and standpat and I by far prefer the later.
by giantsrainman on Dec 31, 2008 8:49 PM PST up reply actions
As opposed to The Man From Oklahoma?
i just threw that out there so i could visualize GRM staring and blinking
but I never imagined visualizing so many of you staring and blinking
disperse disperse i say
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 1, 2009 3:51 AM PST up reply actions
You’re 3 posts weren’t clear enough… Can the Giants sign Wigginton or not?
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Dec 31, 2008 9:46 PM PST up reply actions
USA Today's Elias' Rankings Disagrees
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-11-05-elias-player-rankings_N.htm#nl
Ty Wigginton is the 23rd Ranked NL 2B/3B/SS at 67.033 which is above the 34th Ranked and last Type B NL 2B/3B/SS Tadahito Iguchi at 58.482.
by giantsrainman on Dec 31, 2008 10:16 PM PST up reply actions
I Would Bet Sportscity and ESPN Missed Him Because He Was Non Tendored
by giantsrainman on Dec 31, 2008 10:18 PM PST up reply actions
Turns Out Being Non Tendored Makes All The Difference
B. Free Agency
(1) Eligibility
Following the completion of the term of his Uniform Player’s
Contract, any Player with 6 or more years of Major League service
who has not executed a contract for the next succeeding season shall
be eligible to become a free agent, subject to and in accordance with
the provisions of this Section B.
(2) Procedure
The procedure set forth in this paragraph (2) shall apply to Players
eligible to become free agents pursuant to paragraph (1) above.
Players who otherwise become free agents under this Agreement
shall be eligible to negotiate and contract with any Club without any
restrictions or qualifications and the Clubs signing such free agents
shall do so without regard to the quota provision of this Section B.
I Was Wrong! Since Wigginton was non tendored the Giants or any other club that has reached it’s quota is not restriced by that quota and can sign him.
by giantsrainman on Jan 1, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
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