I Can't Stop Thinking of Hanley Ramirez
by wilriv21 on Dec 29, 2008 8:38 PM PST
72 comments
Red Sox made play to Marlins for SS Hanley Ramirez.
The Red Sox made a play to re-acquire Marlins superstar Hanley Ramirez after losing out to the rival Yankees for star free agent Mark Teixeira, league sources tell SI.com. But while the Marlins listened to Boston's overtures, Florida isn't anxious to trade its best player, and talks apparently have been aborted after no agreement could be reached.
The Marlins were said to be most interested in a center fielder, and discussions apparently centered on Boston's promising youngster Jacoby Ellsbury, talented pitching prospect Clay Bucholz and others in a package for Ramirez, who began in Boston's organization.
Ramirez just turned 25 years old a week ago. His contract status:
- signed extension with Florida 5/17/08
- 09:$5.5M, 10:$7M, 11:$11M, 12:$15M, 13:$15.5M, 14:$16M ($70MM total)
- extension does not include a no-trade clause
There might be a position he could play for the SF Giants. Sabean should back up the truck and see what the Marlins are doing this winter. Who is the Giants Ellsbury compliment? Bucholz compliment?
Should Sabean make the call? What should be willing to trade to have the young talented and inexpensive Hanley Ramirez become the next great SF Giants player?
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Speaking of the Red Sox … I think I just read that they signed Brad Penny: 1 year, 5 mill.
by Merope on Dec 29, 2008 8:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, one year deal
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Dec 29, 2008 8:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and Josh Bard from the Madres
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 29, 2008 10:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn’t HanRam injured for sometime last year? if so, was it his first stint on the DL? and what was the injury?
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Dec 29, 2008 8:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nope
He’s just every kind of awesome. He had offseason shoulder surgery, but he played 150 games at SS last year.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 30, 2008 12:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps a...
MadBum, Noonan, Sosa deal? Too little? I could deal with an Anvil and Alderson deal.
I am Cameron Wood and this is my son and business partner CW Culberson.
by camwoody on Dec 29, 2008 9:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
that would earn you a short phone call
I see the future, and it is Pablo
by CB30 on Dec 29, 2008 9:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think more like
MadBum, Alderson/Villaolona, and Noonan/Sosa. I can only think of 2 MLB players who have a solid chance of outplaying Ramirez over the next 6 years, and we already have one of them.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 30, 2008 4:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll bite
Who are the two you’re thinking of?
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Dec 30, 2008 6:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Off the top of my head, I’ll say Gerald Posey and………..Cameron Maybin? Justin Upton? Jason Heyward? The Moody Blues’ Justin Hayward? I give up.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 30, 2008 6:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just can’t imagine that anybody who’s not currently in the major leagues has much of a chance of outperforming Ramirez over the next 6 years barring injury. That means somebody who has to spend at least a year or two in the minors developing and then another year or so making the inevitable adjustment to the majors is going, in the say final three years of that period, outperform six years of possibly the best player in the game during his physical prime? That makes no sense to me. Justin Upton I guess I could see a case for (although he’d have to go crazy to make up for the position difference). But I’m really struggling for what Giant Cookyman could conceivably have meant (unless he’s jumping the player/pitcher divide).
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Dec 30, 2008 7:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait
There’s a player/pitcher divide? I was not aware of this. To me players = pitchers + position players. So yeah, the first one is Lincecum, whom I see as very similar to Ramirez in value, with potential to be better, but a bit more of an injury risk. The other is Longoria, who right now isn’t Hanley level, but for some reason I’m almost positive that he’s going to get much better at getting on base, which would make him a similar hitter to Ramirez. I’d probably still give the Ramirez because of his position and baserunning, but Longoria’s great defense at 3B at least makes it close. And, even though I originally only mentioned skill, I can’t ignore Longoria’s awesome contract, which is, well, awesome.
Except for those two, I can’t really think of any players whom I wouldn’t be willing to trade for Ramirez.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 30, 2008 7:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Aha, yeah I just didin’t make that mental leap when I first read it as I immediately started searching through position players in my mind (didn’t in fact, until almost the last line of my reply), but it makes sense now. There’s a chance that either Upton brother could get into that league and young players can always surprise you with their quantum leaps of development, but all in all I’d agree with your assessment.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Dec 30, 2008 8:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How could I have forgotten Longoria?
He was a stud for my fantasy team last year. I agree he’s at/near the top.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 30, 2008 8:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
I’d probably still give the Ramirez
Was supposed to be “give Ramirez the edge”. To “give the Ramirez” sound like some weird jail slang.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 30, 2008 8:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose it sounds better than “giving the Sanchez”
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 30, 2008 8:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd throw
David Wright into that mix.
by biff pocoroba on Dec 30, 2008 8:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I read that as “an Advil and Alderson deal.”
by Merope on Dec 30, 2008 8:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no way the marlins would do that
Ramirez has already proved himself as one of the best players in the game. I’m sure they’d want major league ready players (or close to ready). I’d have to believe a deal would be centered around cain or lincecum.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Dec 31, 2008 12:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The deal wouldn’t be centered around Lincecum, it would just be Lincecum, period. Either way, heck no
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 31, 2008 10:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say I would want to trade Lincecum necessarily
I’m just saying that all these suggestions are not going to get it done, not even close (or they shouldn’t be, if the marlins are smart). I assume there’s a marlins blog on sbnation? If you go on there and suggest bumgarner, sosa, and noonan for ramirez, I bet you get laughed out of the place. Ramirez is insanely valuable.
Also, I just meant cain or lincecum would probably be the starting point of the talks (hypothetically, this has like -10% chance of happening). Pieces could be added by one/both sides until they reached an agreement. Lincecum is also insanely valuable, but some teams still question how he will hold up (not just mechanics, but the high pitch counts in college and 08). Ramirez is a beast, and a couple of pitchers unproven above a-ball, one with serious injury risks, and a 2b prospect with horrible plate discipline, is not going to get it done.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Dec 31, 2008 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know
I’m just saying that I don’t think we’d have to offer up any players to go alongside Lincecum, if that’s hypothetically where Sabean went. If I were the Giants GM and I offered Lincecum for Ramirez (which I wouldn’t, making this whole scenario bogus), and Florida wanted me to add players because they were worried about Lincecum’s durability, I’d simply turn and walk away.
But the fact that I’ve used Lincecum’s name in a trade discussion is making me nauseous, so I think I’ll stop now.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 31, 2008 2:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not so sure the Marlins would ask for Lincycum. Oh yeah they would want his talent but do not think they would want to pay what will soon become a huge salary. Believe they would be more interested in less expensive and near MLB talents like Sanchez, Alderson, Bumgarner, Sandoval, Guzman, Noonan, Burriss, Villalona, Sosa, Pucetas, Tanner etc
by wilriv21 on Dec 31, 2008 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What I’m trying to say is, IF Lincecum was a part of a deal for Ramirez, the Giants wouldn’t need to add anymore pieces. Not saying we should deal him, or that the Marlins would ask for him- just that he would hypothetically be enough to get Hanley.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 1, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just read that over on mlbtr…
There is some speculation that Hanley has to move to the outfield right?
A .940 OPS is attractive anywhere, but more attractive at short than in centerfield.
I would think a Ramirez trade would require Cain+
by lincysgiants on Dec 29, 2008 9:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
The Marlins would want a package centered on Cain, to which I say no way. Any depth we have in the pitching dept. would be severely diminished if we got rid of Cain, even if it was for a guy like Hanley
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 29, 2008 9:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
CF with speed, eh?
Fred Lewis (eh sort of)
MadBum
Sanchez
I think that is a package that could get it done if FLA is willing to move him. Would we want to, well, that’s tough.
I think those 3 are certainly a better offer than Buchholz, Ellsbury and a third piece (even say Lars Andersen)
by NeifiChicken on Dec 29, 2008 9:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It's not a better package
Not even close.
Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's
by iamawesomer on Dec 29, 2008 10:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
really?
I think MadBum is worth more than Buchholz at this point. Yes, Buchholz is on a higher level, but he was a real disapointment last year and suffered some injuries.
Ellsbury is completely overrated in my view. His defense makes him better than Lewis, but I don’t see the big deal with Ellsbury. No power, mediocre plate discipline.
We don’t know who the 3rd piece was (probably WASN’T Andersen).
I’d prefer Lewis, MadBum, and Sanchez to Buchholz and Ellsbury and I don’t even think that much of Fred Lewis
by NeifiChicken on Dec 29, 2008 11:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bumgarner hasn’t played above a-ball. There’s still plenty of time for things to go wrong. Lewis is basically a league average outfielder. Sanchez definitely helps the deal, but he still could flame out.
Ramirez is a proven superstar, one of the best hitters in the league from a premium position. The players you mentioned are risky, and probably have less upside even if some of them do reach it.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Dec 31, 2008 12:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I should elaborate.
Ellsbury plays very good CF D, and was worth a win more than Lewis already last year. Take into account he’s also 5 years younger than Lewis and Ellsbury >>> Lewis.
Bucholz and Bumgarner is probably pretty close, moreso than most people think. Before Bucholz bad MLB stint last year, he was the Bumgarner of the minors, except he was doing it at higher levels. Yes, he sucked in 08 at the MLB level, but even then he still K’ed almost a batter per IP. It’s probably Bumgarner > Bucholz, but its pretty close.
Sanchez is pretty awesome, but he’s got more than 2 years of service time now and still is just getting started as a starter. Anderson is one of the more highly regarded prospects in the minors.
Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's
by iamawesomer on Dec 29, 2008 11:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
fair point, I think if Anderseon WAS in fact the 3rd piece it wouldn’t be worth as much. That Anderson part was pure speculation on my part
by NeifiChicken on Dec 29, 2008 11:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ramirez was worth 7 wins last year....
none of the packages that have been suggested even border on realistic.
Flossing a dead horse
by kenshin1 on Dec 29, 2008 9:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
I’m reading this and wondering if I’m taking crazy pills.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 30, 2008 12:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s one of the top 5 position players in the NL, if not the best (I have no statz). And he plays shortstop. How can you expect to acquire him without giving up something more than Bucholz + Ellsbury? Honestly, it should probably take Pedroia or Youkilis.
by cornball on Dec 30, 2008 7:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guarantee you, in the next few days a Marlins rep is gonna come out and say that a deal was never even close. Of course Florida is “listening” to Boston’s proposal, but they’re probably thinking something along the lines of “these tools are crazy”.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 30, 2008 9:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it would take Cain, Lewis, and maybe more. Giants wouldn’t even consider it, but Hanley is a proven star…gonna take more than pitchers in high-A to get him
by m34josh on Dec 29, 2008 9:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Any package would start with Cain and Madbum without giving up Lincecum
I see the future, and it is Pablo
by CB30 on Dec 29, 2008 9:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Don't the marlins need a catcher
How about swapping cleanup hitters. They get Molina we get Ramirez.
Proud father of Eric Surkamp!!!
by The Thrill on Dec 29, 2008 10:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Uggla's their cleanup hitter
I’d take him too, though.
by boonitez on Dec 30, 2008 12:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Uggla should be ours....
stupid Rule 5
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
by DbacksSkins on Dec 30, 2008 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cain will get expensive shortly, and the Marlins are constantly pinching pennies. …unfortunately I think Tim would need to be included for a deal to be reached, unless we trade away 3 of our top 5 prospects. pass.
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 29, 2008 10:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Going on Marlins past history and the Red Sox players name be bandied about in this proposed deal Florida would prefer young inexpensive players. Possible SF that might interest the Marlins are Bumgarner, Alderson, Villalona, Sosa, Pucetas, Burriss, Lewis, Schierholtz, Sanchez and Sandoval. Maybe a few more in minors.
Possibly Sabean could find a deal that doesn’t reduce the farm to ashes yet appeals to Florida. In Ramirez you have a very young talented player who is signed for the next six seasons at a very inexpensive contract.
by wilriv21 on Dec 30, 2008 12:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If I was Theo
I would do this trade in a heartbeat. Though it seems so unrealistic. I’m from Boston and still get a lot of input from a lot of friends there.
Jacoby is the equivalent of Fred and Noonan.
Clay is the equivalent of Alderson and Sosa.
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 29, 2008 10:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
To add, I’d trade for Lars Anderson
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 29, 2008 10:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If that's correct...
I think Hanley for Lewis, Noonan, Alderson and Sosa would be a great trade for the Giants. I’m a huge fan of Noonan and obviously Alderson and Sosa have promising futures, but we have Schierholtz ready to replace Lewis if need be. For a franchise player like Hanley Ramirez, the Giants would have to jump at that deal.
…Which is why it’s all too good to be true.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 30, 2008 9:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lollll
theres no chance we have what it takes to get a deal for hanley done, he’s signed super cheaply for the next 5 years. it’d probably have to start with three of madbum, posey, alderson and villalona.
by TimLincecumIsGod on Dec 29, 2008 11:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
We certainly have what it takes, but I don’t think it’s likely to be done.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 30, 2008 12:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Starting point would be Cain/Sanchez
Hasheem "The Dream" Thabeet or Brandon Jennings. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
by ejdacanay on Dec 30, 2008 1:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I can’t stop thinking of Dan Uggla
"I didn't know (after seeing a spectacular over-the-shoulder catch) whether to shit or go blind." - Former Giants Outfielder Harvey Kuenn on Willie Mays
by stealth snail on Dec 30, 2008 1:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
More like Dan Who-ggla! Amirite?
by chilibean_3 on Dec 30, 2008 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s no way this makes sense for either team.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
by oldjacket on Dec 30, 2008 6:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
love the title tho.
In truth, we all know that wil can’t stop thinking about EME.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
by oldjacket on Dec 30, 2008 6:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I can’t stop thinking about Steve Hosey. But that’s just me.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 30, 2008 8:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I have his autograph somewhere.
by kaliber on Dec 30, 2008 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your coolness quotient has just quadrupled in my book.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 30, 2008 1:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He signed your ass.
and eventually it will wash off. Mine did.
by Giant Voodoo on Dec 30, 2008 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hanley's defense
I’ve read in years past he was one of the league’s worst. Has that changed in recent history like I’ve read in so many places? How did Dewan have his +/-
by NeifiChicken on Dec 30, 2008 1:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It improved to about average in 2008
Which isn’t that unreasonable. He has the tools enough that he shouldn’t be one of the worst in MLB.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Dec 30, 2008 8:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It is hard to play D when your platinum Mr. T chain is whacking you in the eye.
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Dec 30, 2008 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s what she said!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 30, 2008 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That one was elaborate.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 30, 2008 11:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Um, the ’09 Giants will not feature Hanley Ramirez.
by biff pocoroba on Dec 30, 2008 3:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
God would it be sweet if they did though.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 30, 2008 4:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn
Buzzkill
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 30, 2008 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cain + Zito!!!!!
Yay!
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Dec 31, 2008 4:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
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