Mike Caruso, Where Are You?

by Grant on Dec 2, 2008 9:12 PM PST Comment 63 comments

Still seeking right-handed relief help, the Giants have accelerated their pursuit of right-hander Bob Howry, who became a more attractive option Monday when his former team, the Chicago Cubs, declined to offer him salary arbitration.

No arbitration? No second-rounder required?Then Howry is a perfect fit. His numbers for the last four years, courtesy of Baseball-Reference.com:

One of these things is not like the other; one of these things is just not the same.

He'll come at a decent price, he won't command a long-term deal, and his peripheral stats are still strong.

Brian Wilson, Bobby Howry, Jeremy Affeldt, Sergio Romo, and a scrum for the last three spots? I'll take that head start on a 2009 bullpen

Good rumor. Gooooood rumor. *scratches rumor behind ears*

0 recs | Comment 63 comments | Share

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

i’ll take a chance on last year being a fluke, esp. with ‘05-’07 being similar to each other

I am now friends with butthol on Facebook. My life is complete.

It's spelled "M-A-R-C-H-I-N-G-B-A-N-D."

I support The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.

by Takimoto on Dec 2, 2008 9:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Yes, please

Sabean, go fetch.

Noonan. Nooooonan!

by Giant Fan in Singapore on Dec 2, 2008 10:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Fangraphs Provides Some Insite Into Why 2008 Was Not Like 2005-7

Bobby’s velocity was down almost 2 MPH on his fastball and over 1 MPH on his slider. He threw his slider alot more and got hit alot harder (90 Hits and 13 HRs in 70 innings). Funny thing is that his LD percentage was actually down and his groundball percentage was up which should have reduce his BABIP but he was unlucky and saw it go up way instead. He basicly maintained the same FB rate but what hurt him the most was that his HR/FB percentage also went way up. Home games at AT&T should help him get his HR rate back down. The velocity is probably gone but he still averages over 91 MPH with great command and thus should be able to be very effective for us on a two year deal.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=237&position=P

by giantsrainman on Dec 2, 2008 10:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

is "great command" not walking batters?

by Lovejoy on Dec 3, 2008 6:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I Should Of Said "Great Control"

I really don’t know how good his command (ability to hit his spots) is.

by giantsrainman on Dec 3, 2008 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I"m not so sure about either one. Fastballs without much movement over the heart of the plate are what got him into a lot of trouble last year.

by Lovejoy on Dec 3, 2008 4:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And You Know This How?

The stats seem to indicate that he increased his use of his slider and their is no better goofer ball then a slider that does not slide. I would bet this was the biggest contribution to his increase in HRs. But, I like you don’t know this for a fact.

by giantsrainman on Dec 3, 2008 5:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting stuff. His career-high workload in 2007 probably didn’t help his velocity.

Orange Black and Blue - The Purgatory of the Giants Lost

by shn155 on Dec 3, 2008 8:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's interesting to note that Caruso seems to have hung 'em up in 2002

He was only 25, and coming off a .306 partial season at AAA. Anyone know what happened to Mike Caruso?

Down in Front Meat!

by homerdrew415 on Dec 2, 2008 10:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Too much too soon

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Mike_Caruso

by ho-hum baby on Dec 2, 2008 11:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

eeeee

sadly, I think that’s pretty similar to the career path that many of the McCoven predict for Emmanuel Burriss

"I didn't know (after seeing a spectacular over-the-shoulder catch) whether to shit or go blind." - Former Giants Outfielder Harvey Kuenn on Willie Mays

by stealth snail on Dec 3, 2008 12:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ha

he was our 5th round pick in 1994

"I didn't know (after seeing a spectacular over-the-shoulder catch) whether to shit or go blind." - Former Giants Outfielder Harvey Kuenn on Willie Mays

by stealth snail on Dec 2, 2008 10:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

So we are looking at what…11 Mil over 2 years or so. Thats alot of cash for a mediocre reliever. Im jealous!!!

by m34josh on Dec 2, 2008 10:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

His walk rates are pretty fantastic.

by Dan from NM on Dec 2, 2008 10:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

gooooood...

gooooooooood…..

by boonitez on Dec 2, 2008 11:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Man, Mike Caruso. My family was traveling across Wales without Internet access when the Black Flag trade happened, so I didn’t find out about it for days – and when I did, it was Mike Caruso who I was most sorry to see go.

I would be reasonably satisfied with, say, Wilson, Romo, Affeldt, Howry, Hinshaw, Yabu, and Matos. Of course, if our old friend Merkin is healthy, that would help, too.

Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly

by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2008 11:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Mike, we hardly knew ye

This is the other great disappointment in my Giants fandom. Trading away a slugging young shortstop for 2 months of three pitchers who wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) be part of the future really sucked. I mourn the loss of Mike Caruso every August. Strange, isn’t it? He was Bococked by the White Sox, before Bococking was cool.

The other great disappointment: the Michael Tucker signing. I have trouble speaking coherently about either topic.

Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.

by Lyle on Dec 3, 2008 6:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

“Bococking” should be a permanent part of the baseball lexicon. We should make that an official McCoven mission.

by Evan on Dec 3, 2008 7:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The first time I hear..

“And even though Anderson was one of their best prospects, he really was Bococked up to the majors. He never was ready.” on ESPN I will scream.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 3, 2008 8:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I duuno. I like Caruso as well, but that trade did allow the Giants’ to win the division. That and Marcus Jensen for Brian Johnson, but still. I can’t be too mad at that.

by tyrannoman on Dec 3, 2008 8:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I approve

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Dec 2, 2008 11:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Too many words

I was hoping for a simple “yes” from you, ha ha.

Noonan. Nooooonan!

by Giant Fan in Singapore on Dec 2, 2008 11:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe a “yah”.

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Dec 3, 2008 12:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You're right

Noonan. Nooooonan!

by Giant Fan in Singapore on Dec 3, 2008 12:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

or

just a “+”

Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis

by wjackalope on Dec 3, 2008 8:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What happened last year?

K’s were slightly down but K/BB ratio was unchanged.

If anything his control looks better.

K’s down, more contact, more home runs given up (every 7th hit was a HR last season compared to every 9.5th the year before).

Those signs all tend to make me think he lost some velocity. Anyone with better access to cool stats confirm / deny?

by fwoty oz on Dec 3, 2008 12:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

What happened? He hit his mid-30s and ran out of HGH?

by m34josh on Dec 3, 2008 12:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It could also easily be a sample size issue. Over 70 innings, there’s a lot of room for stat fudging to happen.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2008 7:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

See grm’s fangraphs link above. He has lost quite a bit of velocity over the last couple of years, and he gives up a lot of contact.

So I’m unenthusiastic. What sort of contract are we expecting Howry to command?

by Evan on Dec 3, 2008 7:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

durrr

Totally missed that post somehow.

Ya, i wouldn’t be that excited, depending on the contract. If anything he’s likely to lose more velocity next season.

by fwoty oz on Dec 3, 2008 10:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not sure that’s true. Relivers, especially guys out of the ‘pen, tend to vary a lot from year to year. Especially if Pinella did overuse him, it wouldn’t surprise me to see a bump in mph’s from Howry next season.

by tyrannoman on Dec 3, 2008 6:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sweet

We can have another Tim Worrell! GAMER RELIEVER!

by Hobbes2d on Dec 3, 2008 2:02 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

DON"T WANT!!1

Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500

by S.F. Giangst on Dec 3, 2008 4:58 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Just go find Keith Foulke and you can start

The White Flag Trade Revivial Band

by GEC2012 on Dec 3, 2008 5:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

The trend of his tRA the last four years is discouraging:

2005 – 2.84
2006 – 3.00
2007 – 3.62
2008 – 3.90

That said, if he comes at a bargain price I’d be ok with it as he would be a fine fit as our #4/5 guy in the pen. If he can put together a good year or two in our park, we might be able to get some draft picks for him when he leaves.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Dec 3, 2008 8:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Good rumor. Gooooood rumor. scratches rumor behind ears

Sounds like the rumor could hump Grant’s leg and he wouldn’t mind it a bit.

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 3, 2008 8:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I heard it made wee on the rug, and all Grant did was smile.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2008 8:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s weird that Howry gave up so many hits last year when the Cubs had one of the better defenses in the game — 2nd in Defensive Efficiency in baseball. His BABIP was higher than usual but most of his underlying peripherals (GB, FB, LD, BB, K) were close to his career norms. His HR/FB rose to 11.7% after a career average of 8.5. Still, a 11.7 HR/FB isn’t that out of whack with the 10-12% league average.

Marcel projects him as a 4.17 FIP reliever, which is nothing great. Bill James is more optimistic — as usual — and has Howry as a 4.06 FIP reliever. I wonder how much is season last year has driven down his price? I’d love to see a 2-year deal similar to what Affeldt got, maybe with an 3rd year option.

/deer head
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Dec 3, 2008 9:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

This could be a nice little signing, especially if the Giants’ aggression allows them to nab for Affeldt-type money.

He’s no game-changer, and there’s something about a below-.500 team signing relievers that can make you queasy, but for the right price, it’d be a very smart move. I like.

by onlxn on Dec 3, 2008 9:25 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Looks like Cubs fans were giving him the Tyler Walker treatment midyear. Hmm.

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2008/7/25/579389/bob-howry-must-go-cubs-2-m

My favorite: “We have to accept the fact that Howry is to Piniella what Neifi was to Baker. That’s the painful truth.”

Ouch.

staying in an abusive relationship against better judgment | orange black and blue

by shn155 on Dec 3, 2008 9:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

not a difference maker. Used in mopup mostly, finished over 15% of Cubs games without getting a save. So why spend the money in a year when attendance will drop? Those bucks would go a long way developing guys in the Caribbean and other places, giving bonuses to draftees with more potential than Jackson Williams and Culberson etc. Rub those ears and walk on.

adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson

by foothillsfan on Dec 3, 2008 9:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

The Giants are spending money on developing guys in the Carribean, did give bonuses to draftees, they believed that Williams and Culberson were the best available at that point, they paid both within the range that could be expected for those picks. Drafting is almost purely luck once you get past the first 5 picks overall (and even they are not sure things), and throwing money at it won’t make you better necessarily, there is only so many good prospects out there.

You spend the money when the objective is to be competitive and a major area of weakness was the bullpen. The offense and defense was another area, but getting a fix there economically is not as easily achieved as improving the bullpen, where Lincecum had 5 potential wins blown by the bullpen and Cain probably had just as many, if not more. That alone would bring the 2008 Giants back to .500, and don’t include playing Sandoval and Romo all season long.

Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 3, 2008 11:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

OC, I like the Affeldt signing, but this one not so much. The cubbies are not bothering to sign him, and they are a contender and they know his physical condition. If we are a contender, why sign him when the Cubs won’t? And if we are not a contender, why sign him?
Maybe he is one of the better middle relievers out there. That is a scary thought. Bochy would like the low walk rate.
As for Howry following Cain and Lincecum, I don’t see how a hittable righty with decent control and so so stuff is a good guy to bring in around inning # 7 or 8. Looks like time for Affeldt, then Wilson.

adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson

by foothillsfan on Dec 3, 2008 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Cubs gave up on Eyre too

Look what he did for the Phillies….

Well, look at his stats for the years before 2008, those are stats good for 7/8 inning work. And he was hittable in 2008 but for his career, he was right around the league mean, .291, he was due to have a fall back year at some point. Every other part of his statistical profile showed that he had an OK year, even perhaps better year, in 2008.

Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 4, 2008 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Since we're talking bullpen

We should get Morlon in the Rule 5 draft if he’s still available.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Dec 3, 2008 9:58 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

*Morlan

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Dec 3, 2008 9:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Moran?

McC's Outstanding Newcomer '08.

by FairweatherFan on Dec 3, 2008 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yup

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Dec 3, 2008 10:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh no…Morlocks!

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 3, 2008 8:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The only good thing in the stats trend is the walk rate. He is about to crash off the downhill side of a fine career. No thanks.

by out machine on Dec 3, 2008 11:00 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

CONFIRMED

Charlie Hayes ate my homework

by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Dec 3, 2008 12:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Nobody will click on that.

They’re too scared.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 3, 2008 8:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

signed for 1 year

signing is confirmed, that is, one year

adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson

by foothillsfan on Dec 3, 2008 12:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Its not awful

But again, what is the point? Why should a team that will not contend (like the giants) spend 2.75M on a 35 year old reliever on the downside of his career? I’d rather spend that money on a couple of hard to sign draft choices.

Bluntly, the odds of generic relievers (Hinshaw/Correia/Walker/Yabu) outperofrming Howry are pretty reasonable. I agree his trend line shows this year as an aberration, but given his age and velocity drop, it could simply be the end. In what world was anyone else going to give him $2.75m?

Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

by Aadik on Dec 3, 2008 12:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

But one year does not make me upset.

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.

by thehavenot on Dec 3, 2008 1:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Bets The Heck Out Of The Above Guess

So we are looking at what…11 Mil over 2 years or so. Thats alot of cash for a mediocre reliever. Im jealous!!!

by m34josh on Dec 2, 2008 10:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I just don’t see your concern. I also think your view of how likely the Giants are to compete in the NL West in 2009 is way ot of line with reality. This is not your 2005 thru 2008 Giants. We are alot closer then you are willing to open your eyes and see.

by giantsrainman on Dec 3, 2008 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs