McCovey Chronicles Community Prospect List #14
Scott Barnes wins the runoff, Crawford goes back in the pool. Feel free to make a write in as your vote. Just list who you want, don't vote in the poll, and then try and make a case to sway people. This poll will last until Thursday at 5 PM.
1. SP Madison Bumgarner
2. C Buster Posey
3. SP Tim Alderson
4. 1B Angel Villalona
5. 2B Nick Noonan
6. 3B Conor Gillaspie
7. SP Henry Sosa
8. OF Rafael Rodriguez
9. OF Roger Kieschnick
10. SP Kevin Pucetas
11. Travis Ishikawa
12. Wendell Fairley
13. Scott Barnes
Please note, it's getting a little tricky to find info on some guys. If people can fill in scouting blanks, with backed up evidence (preferably not just "I heard"), I will add the info in.
Ehire Adrianza, SS, 19 - Hit .241/.351/.325 in 2007 over 249 AB in the DSL with 41 BB and 37 K. Hit .288/.382/.409 in 2008 over 66 AB, mostly in Rookie Ball with 9 BB and 6 K. He is an excellent defensive SS and scouts love him.
Ben Copeland, OF, 25 - Drafted in 2005, #132 overall. Minor league stats here, year and level summary here. He has good plate discipline but currently profiles as a tweener if his power doesn't develop.
Brandon Crawford, SS, 21 - Drafted 2008, #117 overall. Hit .335/.404/.504 over 248 AB with 25 BB and 58 K his sophomore year of college at UCLA in 2007. Hit .302/.394/.491 over 232 AB with 31 BB and 59 K his junior year. He is another toolsy player considered to have not broken out yet.
Jesse English, LHP, 24 - Drafted in 2002, #187 overall. Over 5 minor league seasons has pitched 265.1 innings with 208 H, 331 K, 117 BB, 20 HR, 1.23 WHIP, and a 3.26 ERA. In 2008, in High-A, he pitched 135.1 innings, with 135 K, 51 BB, 12 HR, 1.27 WHIP, 3.19 ERA, and a 46% groundball rate. He career was derailed early on by injuries but is back on track now. He throws a good fastball, plus changeup, and probably something else that I couldn't find.
Aaron King, LHP, 19 - Drafted in 2008, #207 overall. In 2008, pitched 33.1 innings between Rookie Ball and Low-A with 45 K, 19 BB, 1 HR, 1.33 WHIP, 2.99 ERA, and a ~49% groundball rate. He throws a low 90's fastball that can touch mid 90's, a curve, and a rough change.
Joseph Martinez, SP, 25 - Drafted 2005, #372 overall. Has thrown 547.2 innings in his 4 years of pro ball with an ERA of 3.40 and 1.17 WHIP. Last season in AA he threw 148 innings with 131 H, 6 HR 37 BB 112 K for an ERA of 2.49 and 1.14 WHIP with a 57% groundball rate. More of a finesse pitcher than anything, but has continued to post good stats as he moves up in levels.
Eddy Martinez-Esteve, "OF", 25 - Drafted in 2004, #70 overall. Minor league stats here, year and level summary here. He has always had a disciplined approach at the plate and he had very good power before he tore the labrum in his left shoulder in 2006. Is currently hitting .361/.426/.623 in the PRWL leading to hope that his power is resurfacing. His defense is charitably compared to Manny Ramirez's.
Kyle Nicholson, RHP, 23 - Drafted in 2007, #224 overall. In 2008, in Rookie Ball, threw 62.2 innings with 54 K, 3 BB, 1 HR, 0.59 WHIP, 1.15 ERA, and a 72% groundball rate. He throws a high 80's fastball with a ton of sink, a change, and slider.
Hector Sanchez, C, 19 - In 2007, in the DSL, hit .286/.401/.471 over 119 AB with 19 BB and 15 K. In 2008, in the DSL, hit .348/.458/.502 over 207 AB with 36 BB and 29 K. He is a big, strong switch hitting catcher with a strong arm.
Eric Surkamp, LHP, 21 - Drafted in 2008, #177 overall. College stats here. In 2008 threw 17.1 innings, mostly at Low-A, with 15 K, 5 BB, 1 HR, 1.79 WHIP, 6.43 ERA, and a 50% groundball rate. He throws a high 80's fastball, change, and breaking ball.
Ben Snyder, LHP, 23 - Drafted in 2006, #116 overall. Over 3 minor league seasons has pitched 364.1 innings with 319 K, 88 BB, 27 HR, 1.18 WHIP, and a 2.89 ERA. In 2008, split between High-A and AA, he pitched 147.1 innings with 117 K, 41 BB, and 11 HR. He throws a high 80's fastball and an excellent curve.
Clayton Tanner, LHP, 20 - Drafted 2006, #89 overall. Over three seasons has thrown 278.1 IP, 288 H, 213 K, 91 BB, 7 HR, 1.36 WHIP, 3.62 ERA, and ~56% groundball rate across the three levels of A-ball. In 2008 threw 117.0 IP, 124 H, 84 K, 39 BB, 1 HR, 1.39 WHIP, 3.69 ERA, and a 55% groundball rate in High-A. He throws a fastball, breaking ball, and change.
Testers: Justin Hedrick, Brian Anderson, Thomas Neal, Matt Downs, Osiris Matos, Ryan Rohlinger
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
3 recs |
80 comments
Comments
Snyder and his 1% (and King with 2%) stay in the poll? It seems like we could get in some other testers to see if they’d get more support (even though I do like King). Didn’t Rohlinger get removed for low support?
And I’d definitely put Downs, Neal, and probably Rohlinger ahead of Copeland.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Dec 2, 2008 4:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I don’t really feel like cycling through guys that are all going to get a couple of votes. Plus, I’ve seen a lot of talk that the next chunk of slots will mostly go to pitchers, so I’m hesitant to remove them.
As for Copeland instead of the other three:
- Rohlinger is a 25 year old 3B who hasn’t hit anywhere outside of 160 ABs in AA.
- Downs is a 24 year old “2B”/UT who hasn’t done anything above High-A yet.
- Neal is a 21 year old 1B/DH who hit a little at A-ball, but not enough for the position.
That said, they will likely be included in the next group added.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 2, 2008 4:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This poll is looking like there will be a lot of those 1-2% types since everyone loves crawford
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Dec 2, 2008 6:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
re
I don’t know much about Downs and Neal, but after seeing Rohlinger and Copeland in Connecticut last year, I think Copeland is the better player. He has better all-around tools and more upside at the plate in my opinion.
by SBcaptain2 on Dec 3, 2008 9:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
voted for English.
i’d like to suggest edwin quirarte for the next poll.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Dec 2, 2008 4:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
disagree with English
agree with Quirarte
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
by baetown415 on Dec 2, 2008 6:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
On the runoff poll I said I’d probably vote for someone other than Crawford
I LIED
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Dec 2, 2008 4:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
is that you, McBain?
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
by kennv on Dec 2, 2008 8:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not understanding the Crawford love
He hasn’t had any large amount of at-bats at any professional level, and his senior year is best described as a “disappointment”.
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Dec 2, 2008 4:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Well, when you get to #14 on a prospect list, you’re not really talking about sure things or even maybe things anymore.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Dec 2, 2008 4:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus he’s got amazing tools. He has more upside than a lot of guys already on the list.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 2, 2008 4:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
at this point its alright to vote for him, but when he was getting votes at 10 or 11 or wherever it was, unless he has a lot of family on here, i think there are more deserving. I was really surprised that a lot of people even rated him #13 over Barnes, who had a great pro debut. I’d personally take most of the pitchers on the board over Crawford at this point (and I voted for Tanner), but I guess ya gotta have tools… Is his defense really good? Or is it more offensive tools that haven’t quite developed?
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Dec 2, 2008 4:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good defense, although I’ve read that he sometimes loses focus. He also, supposedly, has offensive tools that haven’t developed yet (and, admittedly, may never). On my personal list, I had him at #7.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 2, 2008 5:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His arm
is above average for an MLB ss right now.. Can throw 95 mph.. He has plus range so he would already be able to play defensively in the MLB.. Offensively he needs to come around though
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
by Azmanz on Dec 2, 2008 5:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cue wilriv on moving Crawford to pitcher...
Noonan. Nooooonan!
by Giant Fan in Singapore on Dec 2, 2008 7:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The thing I dont like about Crawford is the lack of comments about him.
For some reason I was excited about him when the G’s drafted him, but wanted to hear more about him. The discussions surrounding other prospects (pro & con) have been informative…but not Crawford. It seems like his fraternity joined the list and silently put him on the map.
I’m rooting for him big time…but voted for the other SS prospect on the list.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Dec 2, 2008 6:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He scarcely played as a pro, so there’s really nothing to add to what we knew on draft day. He is said to be a good though unpolished fielder and he has some power as a hitter, but he seems to struggle with pitch recognition and approach at the plate.
Adrianza can’t hit either, but he has three extra years in which to try to figure things out, so I’m voting for him.
by Evan on Dec 2, 2008 7:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasted my vote on EHIRE again!
You probably know it as MYANMAR, but it will always be BURMA to me!
by NuschlerFace on Dec 2, 2008 4:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Crawdaddy
and the five (OK maybe four) tools.
My adopted son Matt Downs. Lost in the wilderness of mediocrity.
by nvsfg on Dec 2, 2008 5:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Suggestion
Hey Marcello,
If the poll gets to a runoff then is there really a need for a poll for the next spot? Can’t you just take the loser from the runoff and put him in the spot after the winner?
by monta101 on Dec 2, 2008 5:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
No
The reason being, many of the people who voted for the winner won’t necessarily vote for the loser. That is especially true in this case, as there are a lot of guys on this poll that are similar to Barnes.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 2, 2008 5:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i think the pack of pitchers is dividing the pro-pitcher vote bloc, and Crawford and Adrianza have a good chance to take the next two spots. I really thought Joe Martinez would be picked around now. Of all the pitching prospects, don’t we think he is most lkely to see time in the majors next season? Well, him or Pucetas.
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
by kennv on Dec 2, 2008 8:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good Reply
Nice reply Marcello, I didn’t think of that, since at Minor League Ball, that is the system they implement.
by monta101 on Dec 2, 2008 10:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to predict a big year from Thomas Neal next year.
I don’t know why…I just have a hunch.
by DuikeBuike on Dec 2, 2008 5:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Me, Too!!!
He’s gonna be able to the play OF again and is gonna put up some monster numbers in SJ and Conn after the promotion:)
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 2, 2008 6:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why wasn’t he able to play the OF this year?
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 2, 2008 8:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And why do you think he’s going back into the OF next year?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 3, 2008 6:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
apparently he’s been spotted playing the OF in the instructional league.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 3, 2008 7:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah…
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 3, 2008 9:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he had a shoulder injury and/or was terrible at defense in the OF.
I could have just made either of those things up.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 3, 2008 6:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He tore a labrum in his left shoulder in August 2006, which caused him to miss some time. He only DHd at AZL in 2007 before playing in Augusta last year as a 1b/DH. He throws right handed, though, so I’m not sure why that injury impacted his ability to play the OF.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 3, 2008 7:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven’t seen any recent videos, but stats and everything I’ve heard sounds pretty good. I’m expecting a big year too.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Dec 2, 2008 7:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it possible the organizations top two prospect hitters are Florida State Seminoles?
by wilriv21 on Dec 2, 2008 7:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Jesse English's mystery pitch
He career was derailed early on by injuries but is back on track now. He throws a good fastball, plus changeup, and probably something else that I couldn’t find.
gyroball?
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
by kennv on Dec 2, 2008 8:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why the no Joseph Matinez love?
What’s not to like about a guy that continues to get it done. He’s steadily, if a little slowly, moving up a level at a year.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 2, 2008 8:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
i voted for him like two polls ago, but felt like i was throwing my vote away, so i went crawdaddy this time.
I am now friends with butthol on Facebook. My life is complete.
It's spelled "M-A-R-C-H-I-N-G-B-A-N-D."
I support The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by Takimoto on Dec 2, 2008 10:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s all about ceiling. With Martinez it’s not so high. He’ll probably make the baseball encyclopedia, but he won’t be amongst one of the top ten Martinez’s.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Dec 3, 2008 6:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Go ahead! Waste your vote!

Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.
by EliminateMe on Dec 3, 2008 10:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Because his upside is a No. 4 starter?
by Dan from NM on Dec 3, 2008 5:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not exciting.
The 1% chance a guy could be maybe possibly special outweighs a 50% chance a guy will be an average major leaguer who can fill a spot on a roster inexpensively and effectively.
At least, with most people, it seems.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Dec 3, 2008 9:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
League average at the minimum is pretty valuable.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 3, 2008 10:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
I think from what Martinez has shown he’d be a good 4th/5th starter candidate. I’d bet he’ll get some starts next year with the big team and in 2010 may be filling in until a Mad Bum or Tim gets to the majors. Would he be flashy? No, but look what Woody did with his skills.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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by WalrusMan on Dec 3, 2008 10:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s quite a stretch to say Martinez could be an average major-leaguer, though. The league ERA last year in the NL was 4.30, higher for starters. Is Martinez really that good?
by Evan on Dec 4, 2008 7:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn’t get a lot of strikeouts, but he gets enough considering he doesn’t walk anyone and gets a bunch of groundballs.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 4, 2008 8:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he could be a Aaron Cook-esque type pitcher. Not a bad thing to have.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 4, 2008 8:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. But (a) the percentage of command/groundball pitchers that reach the Aaron Cook level is small, and (b) Cook is still a below-average pitcher, isn’t he?
by Evan on Dec 4, 2008 8:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d say Cook is an average to maybe slightly above average starting pitcher. Career FIP of 4.32, Marcel projects him to 4.12 in 2009. His xFIP’s over the last three seasons: 4.40, 4.49, 4.29.
Can you expand on point (a)? Because I honestly have no idea what the success rate is for a Aaron Cook pitcher-type. I don’t think anyone — at least I’m not — is arguing that Martinez is a sure thing. To me, he’s a nifty pitching prospect that could surprise some people. I don’t see how he’s any different from the Pucetas, Tanner, Snyder trio. You could quibble over age-related stuff, but in terms of “stuff” they are all really similiar.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 4, 2008 8:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know either, but if such pitchers were likely to succeed, scouts would take them more seriously than they do. One big problem is that ground-ball rates drop sharply as you move up the ladder — you can see this in the numbers of Pereiera or Oseguera or Wilding or Snyder or Matos. A 57% gb rate in Dodd is a long, long way from a 57% gb rate at Coors.
I agree with your conclusion. Martinez could well be a cheap option for #5 starter (at least he could be if we weren’t already paying our #5 starter $18 million a year). But that’s almost certainly his ceiling, which means Adriana, Crawford, et al. are more valuable.
Re Aaron Cook, looking at his tRA+ numbers I see 112, 94, 106, 88, 98, 82 (working backward). In the real world he has consistently done much better than that, so I guess he is an above-average pitcher. But that strengthens my impression that he’s an exception to the rule, rather than a reliable model.
by Evan on Dec 4, 2008 9:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i think I’m in agreement with you on these points. I also agree that Cook is Martinez’s best case scenario. He’s way more likely to end up in the bullpen or something, but he’s really close to the Pucetas group I listed — in my opinion — and it makes me wonder how Kevin landed at #10 on our list. It’s not a big deal, though.
One thing I didn’t mention is that imagine if Martinez kept his 55%+ GB rate in the majors with our current defense. Ouch. Having the personnel to field those ground balls can be just as important.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 4, 2008 10:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
One thing I didn’t mention is that imagine if Martinez kept his 55%+ GB rate in the majors with our current defense. Ouch. Having the personnel to field those ground balls can be just as important.
Well, that’s true, but that wouldn’t affect his talent as a pitcher. Just the results.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 4, 2008 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I still like him. I just (probably) won’t like our infield defense next year.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 4, 2008 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Me neither
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 4, 2008 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If we sign Burrel as a 1B
Can you imagine:
1B: Burrel.
2B: Velez.
3B: Sandoval.
SS: Renteria .
!
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 4, 2008 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can we put Cantu at 3B? And Molina isn’t getting any younger and had PB-itis in ’07.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 4, 2008 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
!
Sandoval at C and Cantu at 3B! That would have to be the worst IF ever.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 4, 2008 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be fun to watch. You know we’d have at least a few multi-error plays each month.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 4, 2008 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m on the Adrianza bandwagon. I’d like to see McBryde on the list. I predict a breakout year.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Dec 3, 2008 5:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with McBryde. He might be my #15.
by Grant on Dec 3, 2008 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hector Sanchez
Here’s where I have a difficult time weighing proximity vs. potential. I tend to favor proximity, and with that in mind I’d vote for Matt Downs or Joe Martinez, both of whom I believe will have ML careers of some sort.
And yet, just as I voted Villalona for #1, I changed my philosophy here and went with the young catcher Hector Sanchez. A 19-y-o slugging catcher who walks more than he strikes out? Yes, please. Sure, it’s a long way from the Dominican to AT&T Park, but his upside, to me, is just too hard to ignore….when compared to the iffy choices left. And I say that as a huge fan of Matt Downs; I’ve just got to put Sanchez ahead of him. But then, I wouldn’t have Wendell Fairley in my Top 20, so what do I know?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 3, 2008 6:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Do we know anything about Sanchez other than his stat-line? Any scouting reports on him?
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 3, 2008 6:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is one of the few things I could find on him. There is also this, although the two are in disagreement about which side of the plate he’s better from.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 3, 2008 7:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the links. The last link reminded me of why I really like Ambort and I hope he can stay healthy. That’s a big hope but he can hit.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 3, 2008 7:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Definitive Thomas Neal Scouting Report
accumulated from online resources about 30 minutes ago.
Thomas Neal
Born: August 17,1987 in Inglewood, California
Height: 6-1 Weight: 205
Bats: Right Throws: Right
High School: Poway (Poway, California) Titans
College: Riverside Community College
He was drafted as an outfielder in the 36th round of the 2005 draft from Riverside CC. He was considered one of the best hitters in the California juco ranks. A draft and follow, he was signed prior to the 2006 draft to a $220,000 bonus and assigned to Salem-Keizer.
At SK, he batted .250/.289/.375 in 176 at bats before tearing a labrum in his left shoulder, which required surgery. 2007 was a lost season for the most part as he only got into 10 games for the AZL Giants, accumulating 39 at bats. In 2008, he played for Augusta as a 20 year old for most of the season, hitting .276/.359/.444 with 15 homers, 25 doubles and 81 RBI as a DH/1b (splitting time at 1st base with Angel Villalona).
He’s considered a "toolsy" outfielder with good power, but he does strike out quite a bit. At Augusta, he struck out 103 times in 428 at bats. He showed an ability to draw walks in 2008, with 48 BBs.
Baggs says he is "just a really nice kid."
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 3, 2008 8:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Eyeball account
When I saw him this summer in Augusta, from the stands, I would have had to say he’s a good bit over that listed weight of 205. I’m not saying he was fat; but he seemed more…..stout…..than I would expect an outfielder to be. I had forgotten his shoulder surgery at the time, and I remember thinking “Oh, so he’s just too big and slow to play the outfield – that’s why he’s at 1B.”
When he connected, he hit the ball hard. He, Villalona, Peguero, and Noonan hit the ball the hardest, during the two games I saw. Most of Neal and Peguero’s were foul balls (late on fastballs, I presume), but still…..
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 3, 2008 9:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks. I got those measurement numbers from the Baseballcube.
I certainly am looking forward to seeing him in person this year in San Jose.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 3, 2008 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Power: 78
Speed: 11
Contact: 25
Patience: 42
Hooray for thebaseballcube’s stat based non scout based “Scouting Scores”!
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 3, 2008 8:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I saw those and laughed.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 3, 2008 9:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
some prospect hounds make separate lists for pitchers and hitters, I find it is easier to focus that way. I like looking at offensive stats, but so few of those guys will have an impact at the majors while several of these pitchers will.
Martinez could be decent, he has always had success—maybe like Sergio Romo, not great velocity, but pitching smarts. Voting for Tanner now, young and lefty and effective.
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
by foothillsfan on Dec 3, 2008 9:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Public Info I've collected from BA on players still in vote
Ehire Adrianza #4 top prospect in AZL
Wendell Fairley #20 top prospect in AZL
(also Jose Casilla #9 and Kyle Nicholson #17)
About Adrianza: “I really like this kid. He completely won me over during the AZL championship game when he made one great play after another. Even mistakes from him turn into outs because of his quick reactions. Just between us, I briefly considered rolling the dice on Adrianza and making him the #1 prospect in the league —- that’s how high I am on him. Let’s see how his body matures over the next couple years before projecting his arrival date in the big leagues. The reason he played in AAA was because the Fresno team was short an infielder (I think it was when Ivan Ochoa got called up); since they were already in Arizona, they brought in Adrianza to fill the void until a more experienced infielder could get there.” He also noted that he thinks Adrianza is better than Burriss.
About the pitching in AZL: “Nicholson and Casilla both made the top 20 list, Aaron King was not far off the list, and a couple of sleepers from that staff are Kelvin Marte and Javier Hernandez.”
About Fairley: “I used the word enigma in describing Wendell Fairley. But he started to grow on me towards the end of the year when, as you stated, he made some nice adjustments at the plate. If he continues improving in Instructs and next spring, I could see him moving up to Augusta, especially since he’ll be 21 next year. If you’re wondering what the future holds for Fairley, a comp that I’ll credit to Jason Grey of ESPN is Freddie Lewis —- a talented athlete who developed later in his 20s.”
About Culberson: “Culberson seemed to struggle with the expectations, but he showed the ability to play the game. I agree with you that he made some strides prior to having to depart. His defense is not that bad and he could hit. I think he’ll look more like the player he was supposed to be this year in 2009. If not, the future does not bode well.”
Bonus on Noonan: “I don’t remember any specific comparisons regarding Noonan, but he was mentioned by nearly every manager. His bat has excellent potential and he has the glove and other defensive skills to stay at second base without a problem. I look at the San Francisco roster and see the Giants considering Ivan Ochoa, Eugenio Velez and Kevin Frandsen for the keystone sack next year…wow. Noonan is twice the prospect of those three guys.” Also, “Q: Is Nick Noonan still comparable to Utley w/o the huge power potential? A: That’s not a bad comparison at all. He can definitely handle the bat, a la Utley.”
About SJ pitchers: “Lots of pitchers came through San Jose this year. Alderson of course was in the top 10, and Henry Sosa we sort of threw out his season because he was hurt, even though he technically had enough innings to qualify for the list. The next guy on the staff who got the most interest was Kevin Pucetas, who can locate his fastball and has a good curveball but is seen as a No. 4 starter. Clayton Tanner’s also pretty good, 86-91 but doesn’t repeat his mechanics well enough. So several other decent guys, but definitely no one else on the level of Alderson.”
About Mike McBryde: “If you’re looking for something out of that next level of Cal League outfielders, can I interest you in Mike McBryde of San Jose? He’s like Jason Place only better. Great speed—a reported 3.85 seconds down the line—a great arm, outstanding defense, shows power. If he gets more consistent with the bat he’ll be a big leaguer.”
About EME: “[Expect] Not much; he’s 25, injury-prone and not a good defender. Not a fan.”
Bonus on Sandoval:
From their Cal League description: “He looks considerably less comfortable on defense. Though he has arm strength and threw out 46 percent of basestealers with San Jose, his hands and lack of agility work against him at catcher. San Francisco also played him at both infield corners, but his squat body and limited athleticism don’t profile well there either.”
From their Eastern League description, “He has a strong arm, but the scouts contacted for this list who had seen Sandoval catch didn’t believe he could play there regularly in the major leagues. Two managers said Sandoval had problems just physically squatting behind the plate, while two AL scouts both used the same cliché: "He can’t catch a cold.”
However, John Manuel notes, “He just hits. If I were the Giants, I’d stick him at first base next year and leave him in the middle of the lineup. I doubt he can play third base or catcher well enough to be a big league regular, so maybe he should try throwing lefthanded more often to help him be a better defender at 1B. … Dude can hit.” Scouts also think he can hit too.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 3, 2008 12:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
More Public Info from BA
Here’s some more BA comments from the recent Hawaiian Winter League Chat:
Q: Does Roger Kieschnick show signs of gaining better control of the strike zone or will always be an all or nothing type hitter?
A: John Manuel: Well, this was his first time, his pro debut, and he showed no signs of that, that’s the whole concern. Definitely some scouts who saw him as an amateur and others who saw him in HWB who think of him as an all-or-nothing type, almost a Rob Deer kind of guy, because he does have other tools — he’s athletic enough, he has a good arm, he runs fine. But he’s never going to be a contact hitter, that’s just not him.
Q. Coming out of College, who was the better prospect Posey or Longoria?
A: John Manuel: Longoria for me because the bat was a known commodity. Nothing against Buster but Longoria stood out a bit more in the ‘06 draft crowd, and by this time, Longoria had hit 20 homers in his first half-season in pro ball (counting the Double-A SL playoffs), so at this time, Longoria’s lead was even bigger. Power is the separator.
Q: Who will be the better player, Wieters or Posey?
A: John Manuel: Wieters for me due to (a) switch-hitting and (b) power. Posey probably will wind up the better defender but for me that difference is smaller than the difference between the two as hitters. I like Posey a lot but consider Wieters superior.
Q: Mr. Manuel, thank you for the chat. What kind of ETA would you put on Posey given some of the adjustments he will need to make behind the plate? 2010?
A: John Manuel: You’re welcome, Joe. It sounds like Posey already has made some of those adjustments. There were certain pitches he was having trouble receiving, but he made some quick adjustments in two weeks in instructs and throughout the Hawaii season. He’s going to hit; the power is a bit of a question, but he’s going to hit. and he’s athletic and has a natural feel for receiving and throwing, so he’ll be able to make the adjustments we’ve talked about. I do think 2010 is fair for an ETA.
by nelson95 on Dec 3, 2008 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We Are Getting Close To Where Matt Downs Belongs
He ain’t 14th but he is in my top 20. It is time to start including him in the voting for 15th.
by giantsrainman on Dec 3, 2008 11:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Downs
I like Downs a lot, but I don’t see how he could be ranked above Adrianza, Crawford, Neal, Culberson, and Rohlinger (and maybe McBryde). Downs is really a Utility player type prospect at this point. I say late 20s for Downs.
by nelson95 on Dec 4, 2008 7:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
utility shmootility
just because Downs plays all infield positions, does that make him utility? He has hit well at hi A, which Adrianza, Crawford, and Culberson have not come close to. Good speed and D, good enough bat and D to play 2B and also as a bonus, back up 3B and SS. I remember the years Cody Ransom, Deivi Cruz and the like cluttered up bigleague rosters just to have a backup SS.
Downs OPSd 100 pts higher than McBryde on the same team, and 65 higher than Rohlinger. Only Bond, the main third baseman, had a higher OPS except for guys who got promoted—Pablito and Mooney.
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
by foothillsfan on Dec 4, 2008 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Downs
Here is an excerpt from a Joe Ritzo interview from Oct 31st on the SJGiants website.
JR: You’ve played all over the diamond during your professional career. Where do you see yourself playing if you were to reach the major leagues?
MD: I don’t see myself as a second baseman. I did play there for two years, so I guess it would be nice for them to put a second baseman in there who could hit 20 home runs. That’d be a big plus to the lineup at the major league level. But I think they look for more glove and speed than they do for power in the middle infield. So I think I’m more of a third baseman or a utility guy. A Rich Aurilia type player. I could play third, first, even go out into the outfield. So, I think more of a utility guy.
by nelson95 on Dec 4, 2008 6:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tester
When does Jesus Guzman fit in?
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
by kennv on Dec 4, 2008 6:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
As soon as you add Raptor to his name.
If marketed properly, he’ll get voted in in his 1st poll.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Dec 4, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My only hesitation is to throw him on when he might not be with the team in a few days.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 4, 2008 4:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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