The Future and the San Francisco Giants
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 19, 2008 1:25 PM PST
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PrintDoes anyone else remember that free agency used to be much more exciting, or is it just me? Ten years ago, it seemed like there were always two or three worthy free agents at every position, and if a free-spending team wanted to go nuts, they could. Things done changed. Now only a handful of premium free agents slip through the cracks, and the free-spending teams go nuts on them. The Cleveland Indians model of the late-‘90s – buy out the arbitration years of young superstars in exchange for below-market long-term contracts – is now the model of choice for almost every franchise. Take Hanley Ramirez, Grady Sizemore, David Wright, Chase Utley, and, uh, Eric Chavez, just to name a few: by the time the rest of baseball gets a crack at those players in free agency, they’ll all be on the wrong side of 30.
With a shrinking pool of quality free agents, the key to building a successful franchise in Major League Baseball is to take advantage of the built-in indentured servitude. It always has been, but now it seems even more important. Franchises control the rights to their players six years after the players reach the majors, and for the first three years, the contracts are barely over the league minimum. The NBA and NFL would kill for this system; it’s what makes a salary cap completely unnecessary to build a winning team. It’s why the A’s had a crazy amount of success until last year, why the Marlins have two unfortunately timed World Series rings, and why the Devil Rays were in the World Series this season. The best players in baseball are often players in their mid-20s. Players in their mid-20s are usually really cheap. Feed those two sentences into the ol’ Logictron 3050, and it’ll tell you that teams should try get some o' them good players in their mid-20s through smart drafts and scouting.
So the Giants are going about things the right way. They’re talking up the minor league system to fans, trying to spread the word. But when a team tries to build from a desolate farm (for position players, at least), the process will take a while.
You know all of this. A lot of the season ticket holders who received the letter from Brian Sabean might not. They think, hey, this team has money. This team makes money. The park is always packed, and the television money is rolling in. Why are the Giants refusing to pay for free agents? The Giants need a power hitter. What are they doing signing an old shortstop? Where is the big bat?
Right now, a lot of good Giants fans are angry. Fear of losing leads to anger. And anger leads to the Giants spending $120M on the wrong free agent. I’m terrified of a losing season, especially one that involves Edgar Renteria hitting .240, because I’m worried that would create a fan revolt. I’d guess that the Great Fan Revolt of aught-nine would involve decreased attendance, a new front office, a $150M contract to Matt Holliday and a Madison Bumgarner-for-Dan Uggla swap. Maybe that combo would allow the Giants to compete in the short term. Maybe. It’s more likely that impatient moves like that would futz up the Giants’ long-term and sensible plans.
So this whole post is just a long comment starter that boils down to this: How do the Giants overcome the perception that they’re cheap and/or unwilling to add offensive talent? How does the organization convince an impatient fan base to be patient?
I’m willing to watch losing baseball in 2009 as long as it’s building to a brighter future. The Giants have the baseball nerd vote secure; now they just need to make the idea attractive to everyone else. I have no idea how they’ll do it.
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How do the Giants overcome the perception that they’re cheap and/or unwilling to add offensive talent?
For A) point to Barry Zito. For B) point to Aaron Rowand. For people questioning intelligence and/or decision making skills: shrug shoulders.
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.
Came Here To Say That..
Pay Timmy
My adopted sons Matt Downs and Ben Copeland . Still not ranked in the McC prospect list.
im enthusiastic about the direction of the giants ORGANIZATION for the first time in a long time. enuff said.
i adopt brian sabean... take that dramatic irony!
by Headhunter Rollins on Dec 19, 2008 1:29 PM PST reply actions
I have no idea either. I do like reading the SFGiants.com message board for giggles and an insight into the average fan’s mind.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned his name. He’s a consistent .300 hitter, he drives in 100 runs, he steals 20+ bases, is a good RF, and is a line-drive gap hitter with a little pop. He may not be a franchise player, but he would immediately be the best bat on the Giants and definately help in the manufacturing of runs, 80’s STL Cards style.
By trading Lincecum and Cain. Not only can we put studs at those positions but we can get prospects too. Great way to have more trading power. The Giants have young pitchers coming up soon enoug. The rotation will be fine.
I’m disgusted with Sabean, the Renteria signing makes NO sense without CC. The line-up Bochy sent out is pathetic!
/deer head
Bay City Ball
I'm scared to visit those message boards, seriously
Those people are insane. It scares me knowing that every time I go to a Giants game, I might be sitting next to one of them
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 19, 2008 11:10 PM PST up reply actions
That is why we are all here, instead of there. I check in over there once in a while, but the inane and ignorant comments turn me off almost immediately.
My adopted sons Matt Downs and Ben Copeland . Still not ranked in the McC prospect list.
it would be like if everybody on this site was giantsrainman
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 20, 2008 3:34 PM PST up reply actions
It would take a lot of work...
To make Conan O’Brien look like that, but hey, you do what you gotta do when you take over for the Tonight Show.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 19, 2008 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
CONAN THE LIBRARIAN
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHoHaAYHq8&feature=related
Really looks like the kid gets cut in half too.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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UH OH! Bobbo’s been eating…..Yappy’s Dog Treats!
Your dog will love that liver and onion taste……with just a hint of cheese.
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
It’s always funnny. Fans pine for a youth movement and to not sign guys who are fast approaching/older than 30. Then when the team finally starts to give younger players an extended look and not make stupid trades/FA signings that will handicap the team moving forward, people start screaming, “WHY AREN’T YOU SIGNING 29-YEAR-OLD MARK TEIXEIRA TO A 10 YEAR DEAL FOR 200 BILLION DOLLARS?!??!?!?!?!?!??!”
I am indeed (not) looking at Ralph B when I say this. Him and his contingent of dumbnuts.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
Lock up
It would be a GREAT idea for the Giants to lock up Tim Lincecum. Good for him too, since I think salaries are beginning to head down — although perhaps not for the superstars.
I think the Giants should make a big effort to sign Randy Johnson, since they can likely make about as big a possible improvement to their team as is possible with one available player — and do so without spending in eight figures or for more than one year.
Renteria could hit .240 - but he seems far more likely to me to hit in the .290.300 range. He has lost most of his power, but he has lost 10 pounds in the off-season and so should have curbed his decline in the field and hopefully even reversed it a bit.
The Giants really aren’t dramatically improved at the moment, but signing Johnson would possibly double the improvement level. And in the weak NL Worst, that might be enough.
Ty Wigginton might be a guy to take a chance on, but I am expecting a down year from him, which obviously would defeat the purpose of his signing. Rich Aurilia seems a more likely signing. And while Richie will likely decline this season, as well, he might play at about the same level as Wigginton — and perhaps at less than half the cost. Either player’s right-handed bat (or even that of Josh Phelps) would make a nice complement to Pablo Sandoval and Travis Ishikawa on the corners.
I peg the Giants as being slightly over four runs a game offensively right now, so they will need some combination of fine pitching and a division-wide collapse. Adding Randy Johnson would at least double their chances IMO. It wouldn’t be impossible for the former multiple Cy Young Award winner to become their second-best pitcher for a year.
Meanwhile, the Giants should be marketing the HECK out of the kids. I frankly was shocked that they didn’t come up with something a la 1986’s “You’re gonna like these kids.” The Giants had Tim Lincecum, and they didn’t fully realize it. Or more likely, they just didn’t think they could afford to take the chance of putting too much of their advertising on his shoulders.
This year they should have no such qualms. It was hard to believe how popular Tim was at Lefty’s Sports Souvenirs last night. Or how beautifully he interaced with the crowd, one by one. He was particularly good with the kids.
Barry Bonds?
Greg Maddux?
But the point is taken. Rare is the free agent that is as valuable as his contract.
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.
Reply Fail
Stupid laptop
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.
Dude
Lincecum’s great and all, but he’s not a gamer yet. That takes time, and until that happens he’s completely unmarketable
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 19, 2008 11:13 PM PST up reply actions
I guess that's a joke
I guess that was a joke. I saw a signed poster — at the price of $299.99 — at Lefty’s that said Tim was a gamer.
Gamer > Talent
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
Don’t confuse the sharksrog! He may fight crime by night, but by day he’ll kick your ass!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 20, 2008 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
To be honest
To be honest, I’m so confused here that I think I’ll stay in tonight.
:D
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 20, 2008 6:14 PM PST up reply actions
>run dingerz.exe
The Giants are building for the long term. They should repeat this over and over again until people realize they are serious. The type of fans who overreact to a 2-year deal to an over-30 player, or a 1-year deal to a 45 year old pitcher are always going to complain no matter what. As JR stated above, people cried for years about rebuilding. Now that the team is trying to do that, they are crying for vets. When the occasional vet is signed for a reasonable short term contract, they cry because they signed a vet!
Make the team as good as possible now without throwing away what you are trying to build long term. Make sure people know what you are doing. Laugh at the Verucas who don’t get it.
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 19, 2008 1:57 PM PST reply actions
+24,44,25
The thing is that Sabean has been saying this since last off-season’s first press conference. The Sabean-haters will find any excuse to complain.
In addition, there are those Giants fans who just like to complain. There was a faction that were complaining all through the years when the Giants were winning.
It was just as bad last season, when many were worrying about losing 100 games.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 19, 2008 5:00 PM PST up reply actions
Which of these premises is correct?
No Free Agent is ever as valuable as his contract.
The Giants are not a freespending team.
The Giants’ farm system will produce above average position players.
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Dec 19, 2008 2:43 PM PST reply actions
The Answer: The Bat
If they can get him for three years or less, I think signing Burrell would make more sense than Randy Johnson and provide an answer to Grant’s question:
- Johnson is 1-year stop-gap
- Burrell adds the big bat that fans are pining for
- I’m not all that concerned with him blocking the likes of Phelps or Ishi-ishi-ka-ka-wa-wa
I think if Sabean walks away from the off-season with Howry, Affeldt, Renteria and Burrell without having traded any of the young talent, you’d have to tip your hat to him. Toss in Guzman and the team is looking deeper than it has in a looooong time. He’d have given the team a chance to win without motgaging the future. We’d still have a lot of kids playing in 2009, but we wouldn’t need to count on all of them to succeed.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
-1
replying to yourself
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replying to yourself
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The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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Or
Johnson is a 1-year bridge to Pucetas, Sosa, Alderson, or Bumgarner. Meanwhile, we could have a shutdown rotation in 2009 if Zito and Sanchez can continue the improvements they showed in 2008.
And 3 years of Burrell could be blocking Villalona, who could be up as soon as 2009-2010, should he follow Justin Upton’s rise through the minors (not saying he will but he did do better than Upton did in A-ball even though he was one year younger, figuring out how to speak English, figuring out living in America, didn’t have the benefit of Little League and other advanced instructional tools which are easily available in the U.S.) or 2011 if he’s delayed relatively.
And I’m concerned about Burrell’s defense at 1B giving up a lot more runs than he did in LF, both because he hasn’t played there in years (though I do give him a plus that he used to be a 3B) and because he wasn’t ever able to get better in LF, most players can get better if they try, Mike Schmidt used to be considered a negative defensively at 3B but worked to be be better and I think he eventually won a gold glove. Suggests he won’t try to improve at 1B defensively.
What, if anything, are the rumors saying about Pat the Bat getting/wanting? I don’t recall much talk about that yet. If we can get him for less than 3 years, and for a good salary (for us), then I can see maybe getting him. That would probably have to happen late in the off-season, just before spring training, much like how the Marlins ended up signing I-Rod after he was feeling insulted that nobody was pursuing him hard.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 19, 2008 5:19 PM PST up reply actions
holy shit that is an optimistic timetable on Villalona. The guy is 18 and just had a good but nowhere near great season in low A ball. To think he is going to be up as soon as 2009 or 2010 is just crazy. If he takes a year at each level he will be up in 2012 at the ripe old age of 22. Justin Upton is a once in a decade kind of talent, you should never compare any player’s development to his. Not signing a 1B because of an 18 year in A-ball would be pretty silly.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 19, 2008 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
He Didn't Say 2009-2010 Likely Just Possible
His point is that for 2011 Burrell would be blocking Villalona if we signed Burrell for 3 years. Personally I don’t even want to sign Burrell now because I do not want Ishikawa blocked or the option to move Schierhlotz to 1B blocked.
by giantsrainman on Dec 19, 2008 6:09 PM PST up reply actions
but the thing is, it’s not possible, it is completely impossible
there are plenty of good reasons not to sign Burrell, but blocking Ishikawa isn’t one of them, blocking the option (which doesn’t actually exist) of moving Nate Schierholtz to 1B is a huge reach, and not wanting to block Angel Villalona in 2011 is utter lunacy.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 19, 2008 8:45 PM PST up reply actions
That Is Your Opinion - OGC and I Just Have A Different Opinion
Having an opinion that is different then yours doesn not make that opinion “utter lunacy”. I have used such hyperbola myself in the past but I make an effort to not use it in matters of opinion but rather try and use it only in matters of fact.
by giantsrainman on Dec 19, 2008 8:55 PM PST up reply actions
Furthermore, if Villalona is legitimately being blocked by Burrell in 2011 (the soonest I can see this happening), doesn’t that end up giving the front office a good kind of problem to solve? I mean, if Burrell is blocking Big V, that means Burrell is still producing (otherwise Angel would win the job outright), yet Angel is still a big-time prospect. We’d be in the position to trade Burrell for prospects or a piece (say relief help) that we need. We might not be getting equal value, but we’d be getting something. Productive players – in the bigs or minors – are always valuable because they can be traded for other players and Burrell is only blocking Villalona if Burrell is still productive.
I don't think so..
We could always move Burrell back to the OF or move Villalona back to 3B or to the OF if he’s ready and Burrell is still on the team.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
If Burrell Goes Back To LF In 2011 Would That Not Result In Benching Lewis, Rowand, Or Schierholtz?
If Villalona goes to 3B what happens to Sandoval? Posey should be up by then catching so someone has to be traded or benched.
Bottom line, I just don’t think Burrell adds enough above what Ishikawa can do in 2009 and 2010 to justify the expense and the failure to findout for sure what Ishikawa has to offer. I have said before that I would not get all upset if it happened but to my point of view it is not the right move.
by giantsrainman on Dec 19, 2008 9:42 PM PST up reply actions
In 2011, who says we have Lewis, Rowand, and Schierholtz? Lewis/Schierholtz could have turned out to be busts. I don’t think Sandoval will be playing 3B for more than next year. Any player can be traded. I think logically you can look 2 seasons down the road with blocking players/roster crunches, but anything past that you have no idea what your players are going to do. If you have a player who has torn up the minors and will be in AAA this year, then you have to plan for him to be up in the majors late that season or early next. But if you have a player who has been average in the low minors, you can’t really keep a spot open for him. It’ll be a few years before he gets up to the majors and you still can’t be sure he’ll make it.
I think Burrell would add a lot above what Ishikawa can do. Ishikawa is someone I still won’t trust to have the 1B job. And perhaps he lands with a 2 year deal? A little more monies or the market just isn’t looking at him.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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This Is My Secondary Arguement
My primary arguement is that signing Burrell is giving up on the chance to get equal performance from Ishikawa or perhaps even Schierholtz at much lower cost. I think this would be a mistake.
by giantsrainman on Dec 19, 2008 9:59 PM PST up reply actions
I'm optimistic, but
Counting on Ishikawa or Schierholz to be a 126 OPS+ guy seems a little too optimistic even for me.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I Didn't Say I Was Counting On It
I said I wanted to find out and I don’t see how we can do that if we sign Burrell.
by giantsrainman on Dec 19, 2008 11:35 PM PST up reply actions
But how do you think his power would translate to AT&T?
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 19, 2008 11:20 PM PST up reply actions
The need
The Giants need Randy Johnson AND Pat Burrell or Adam Dunn. But they are actually working hard to build a good defensive team, and they seem to feel neither Burrell or Dunn could adequately handle first base.
Reading between the lines, it seems like they’re a little more amenable to trying Dunn at first, but Dunn has no interest in playing first.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 20, 2008 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
I Am Thinking Dunn Has No Interest In Playing At AT&T And Is Just Using No 1B As An Excuse
by giantsrainman on Dec 20, 2008 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks
Thanks for that insight, Grant. That would seem to make sense.
Dunn hasn’t hit his weight at AT&T (although given how big he is, he probably doesn’t hit his weight in many places outside Denny’s). He’s really been AWFUL there. But it’s a small sample, and based on Adam’s hitting chart, I don’t think AT&T would hold too many of his home runs. They seem to make it out of any park aside from Yellowstone with room to spare.
On the other hand, it could be a psychological thing with Adam. Perception isn’t always reality, but on the other hand, reality often isn’t perceived.
I think Goofus said in one of his posts (the 1st one believe):
[Sabean’s] given the team a chance to win without motgaging the future
I think it’s important for the G’s to cummunicate this message to the entire fan base (and as a STH, I feel they do a good job of communication through talks, email, letters, etc), and also to ensure the fans know that the future is not that far off.
And that it’s unwritten.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
You just had to go and quote a spelling error, didn’t you? Ya bastard.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Goofus, were you involved in the toxic motgage scandal? Say it ain’t so!
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
Aptor Jesus FTW!
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
I also think think this as good a place as any to add that I’m more glad than ever that the team didn’t sign Sabathia
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I agree agree
Which is hard to admit because I really wanted CC before he signed with New York. I get the feeling that if we’d signed CC then Cain would’ve been a goner, and that would suck because I just bought a #18 jersey
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 19, 2008 11:24 PM PST up reply actions
I’m willing to watch losing baseball in 2009 as long as it’s building to a brighter future.
What is a brighter future because the same was said of the 2008 season? What happens if the future arrives and it is not as bright as anticipated?
Come on, Wil. These are GIANTS prospects we’re talking about here. There’s no way we can lose in 2010.
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Dec 19, 2008 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
What happens if the future arrives and it is not as bright as anticipated?
Then I’m going to freak the FUCK out and jump through a plate glass window to my death.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
Is it fun watching a computer crash to the ground? Ok, yeah it is…
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
I think 2009 is brighter..
We were able to see Lewis and Lincecum improve, Sanchez to show a lot of promise of hopefully being effective over the whole season this year, and we were given hopes of Sandoval, Ishikawa, and Schierholtz this year. That’ll be pretty much it, and if 1/3 of those players work out we’ll be in good shape. If 2/3 of them work out we’ll be in excellent shape. If 3/3 I’d be ecstatic. That would allow us to trade a few players for players of need, even pitching since in a couple years we’ll be looking at Bumgarner and Alderson nocking at the door.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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Wow..
I can’t believe I just said nocking…
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
I assumed that you were trying to say "mocking"
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Dec 20, 2008 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
+1
Also, Burriss showed some hope as well, and Romo, Hinshaw, even Velez.
For 2009, the hopes in the minors are seemingly farther away, but I don’t think that it is impossible that we might see Bumgarner, Alderson, Villalona, or Posey up to the majors late in the season (not probable, not likely, but possible).
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 19, 2008 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
Do not want to see any of these prospects playing in SF in 2009. The minors leagues is the place for prospects to develop and hone their skills. Plenty of reps and success.
Yea..
Agree with wil here. Should not have those youngsters up next year, with the chance of Posey as a Sept callup or Alderson as a bullpen fill in if we’re in the playoff chase and need a bullpen arm.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
September Call Ups Don't Lose Any Minor League Playing Time - The Minor League Season Is Over
If they show their ready and we can reasonably make space on the 40 Man Roster we should absolutely consider this. AS OGC said they are not likely to be ready but it is possible.
by giantsrainman on Dec 19, 2008 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
Though I don’t see any harm in the position to take some hacks the end of the year, I would be especially careful with the pitchers. Most notably the SP considering their young arms will have already pitched a full year in the minors. No reason to send them out if the Giants are not competitive in September. Risk/reward=not worth it whether they are ready or not.
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
by Giant among Angels on Dec 19, 2008 8:22 PM PST up reply actions
Two out of three
I think both Sandoval and Schierholtz can prosper if used correctly — but it doesn’t look as if Nate will get his chance. And Ishikawa’s not a bum; it’s just that he isn’t even an average hitter for a first baseman and likely never will be.
I think the problem is that most fans are under the impression that it’s easy to put a winning team on the field. The “load the roster with veterans” scheme clearly did not work, and since it didn’t work, fans cried for a youth movement. Last season, the youth movement started, but the Giants were still not a good team and because of that, fans think that a youth movement won’t work and they’re crying for veterans again.
To get back to the question at hand:
How do the Giants overcome the perception that they’re cheap and/or unwilling to add offensive talent? How does the organization convince an impatient fan base to be patient?
It would seem that the only way the fans are going to be happy is with a contending team on the field. The Giants can sign all the big name free agents or develop the farm system all they want but the sad truth of the matter is no matter what they do, the fans won’t be happy until they see their team contending for the playoffs.
The "load the roster with veterans" scheme clearly did not work
see, I think the problem is that for a few years in the late 90s-early 2000s it actually did work and it led some people to believe that you could continuously build a team in that fashion. Now that we are having to pay for all of the short-sightedness, which all of us baseball nerds knew we would eventually, we need to sort of re-educate fans on the real way teams are built.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 19, 2008 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
I think that scheme works just fine..
As long as you’ve got a BONDS playing in his prime.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
So what you’re saying is as soon as this guy or this guy make it to the major league squad, the Giants can start with the “load the roster with veterans” scheme once again. Alright, I’m in.
by deuce deuce on Dec 19, 2008 11:49 PM PST up reply actions
Disguise
Barry Bonds was so great that he disguised the fact that the Giants weren’t putting very good players around him. Remember, they gave up on Russ Ortiz, Livan Hernandez, Jeff Kent, Bill Mueller, Kenny Lofton and Reggie Sanders after the 2002 season. Each of those players went on to one or more very good seasons. The following season Ortiz won 20 games, and Mueller won a batting title.
How do the Giants overcome the perception that they’re cheap and/or unwilling to add offensive talent? How does the organization convince an impatient fan base to be patient?
They overcome this reality by cleverly acquiring effective offensive power. Not by trotting out tired excuses and pocketing all the comcast money whilst telling the fan base to be patient.
PATIENT? I guess I can wait until 2010 or 2011 to ever spend money on Giants tix again, but somehow i don’t think that’s what the Giants mean by patient.
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Dec 19, 2008 3:56 PM PST reply actions
More free agents
My hunch is 10 years ago it looked like there were a couple good free agents at every position because we were all still sipping the RBIs-and-veterans juice a bit. We’d have probably considered Orlando Cabrera an awesome option. Maybe not. I can’t remember what it was like before the red pill.
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
Are we better than 08?
offensively…yes by just a little
pitching….yes by a lot (SP yr 2 and new RP)
defensively…about the same or a little worse
minor league…yes with our topbut not by much prospects succeeding/arriving
draft picks….havent sacrificed ANY picks so yes and we have the #6 pick this year
it doesnt disprove that were cheap or teach patience but it just seems like good baseball management (Sabes is probably evil laughing in his tire kicking room)
I’m not sure what the answer is. The only option I’d pursue is basically what the team is already doing. Spend to make incremental improvements where you can without harming the future. Plow money into the amateur draft and Latin America, etc.
Pleasing the fan base is a pretty risky move in my opinion. All you can do, I think, is stress to people that you are spending to improve the major-league team (Renteria, etc.) while also building a strong player-development system.
I’m not as afraid of a losing season as you are. I’d be willing to take my chances with a new management team if it comes to that.
I left out the most important part: The only thing that’s going to please the fan base, really, is winning, and, unfortunately, building a successful team takes time.
by Dan from NM on Dec 20, 2008 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
Not a major proposal...
…but it couldn’t hurt to replace some of the inane mid-inning games and promotions with “Farm Report” highlight reels showing the best of the kids from Fresno, Norwich et al. The front office doesn’t even have to lose a dime; just get the companies that sponsor shitfests like “guess randy winn’s favorite album of 1983” to sponsor the Bumgarner vids. Above all, constantly be reminding people of what’s in store and why they should stay invested in the team.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
. . . but a good one.
How about give-aways like an “all-expenses-paid trip to beautiful Augusta and tickets to see the GreenJackets!”
I’d go.
Todos somos Gigantes
Turn down KNBR when so-called South City fans call in saying that “we” need a batter that looks like the GEICO caveman.
Grant is right, they have sewn up the “nerd” vote (and math geek too).
Stands will still be full with people now & then. The team will have it’s ups & downs, but there’s seems to be a more reasoned approach to creating a ball club over the next 2- 3 years.
People’s hysterical over reactions are just that.
surely the two things that would appease giants fans most at games
are
1. cheaper beer
2. maybe some more cheaper beer
I have no solutions, just rejoindres
by alea iacta est on Dec 21, 2008 5:57 PM PST reply actions
agree, but...
“I’m willing to watch losing baseball in 2009 as long as it’s building to a brighter future. The Giants have the baseball nerd vote secure; now they just need to make the idea attractive to everyone else. I have no idea how they’ll do it.”
I am willing to watch losing baseball in 2009 as well. I am NOT going to pay the $$ to renew my season tix to watch losing baseball in person though…
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