Notes from tonight's "Inside the Clubhouse" Chat w/ Sabes, Neukom and Boch
by BruteSentiment on Dec 17, 2008 10:01 PM PST
284 comments
Some VERY interesting notes from tonight’s Inside the Clubhouse Talk with Bruce Bochy, Brian Sabean and Bill Neukom...and special guest, Barry Zito. I won't spoil everything, so definitely watch it when it's broadcast on TV.
• It’s Minor League time! Seriously, a lot of what was talked about about involved minor leaguers, including a pre-made video package about the top prospects coming in November for a fitness workout camp, and every fan-asked question except for one. This seriously underlies a change in not just the team’s philosophy, but also the fans’. If anything is going to help the entire team push for more youth and development, it’s this.
• Brian Sabean on Affeldt: “He finally said yes after three years.” Apparently, he’s been targeting Affeldt for a while. Considering the stats that Affeldt was putting up three seasons ago, some credit must go to Sabes and the scouting staff for identifying his improvement since 2006.
• Zito said that he got a call last season from Huston Street, who wanted to know what the Giants were like and who wanted to stay in the Bay Area. Zito said “I love Street, but we got Wilson.” Note of interest: Wilson is Zito’s roommate in L.A., and has Zito on a workout called P90X that a few Giants are on.
•Zito noted that Wilson is “not in a position to pay for a nutritionist” like he can. Sabean looked like he rolled his eyes.
• Miller asked Zito what kind of workout Lincecum is on. Answer: “The Genetic Freak Workout.”
• Sabean: “A lot more frustration than in past years in making trades...To get any kind of bat that would be an improvement would require giving up pitching.” Reiterates the desire to not trade Sanchez, who is being asked about a lot, due to uncertainty of Lowry and a need for a 5th starter already.
• Sabean noted a big name LHH free agent would be the ‘type seen to play first, but doesn’t want to” and a RHH free agent “Lets in more runs than he scores.”
• Only Free Agent mentioned: Randy Johnson. Sabean confirmed they are working hard on a one-year deal. Felt like the deal is inevitable. Also-signing Johnson allows the team the flexibility to trade Sanchez for a bat.
• Regarding criticisms about Molina batting 4th: “The average 4th hitter in baseball drove in less runs than Molina. Look it up.”
• Mentions Renteria’s second half again, and says he will be a bridge to Manny Burriss, or maybe Nick Noonan, as everyday shortstop. Noonan-lovers, rejoice!
• Big part of Renteria’s signing was how uncomfortable Burriss looked in the AFL, particularly with a knee injury. The team decided it wouldn’t be fair to ask a kid who was essentially just in A-Ball to be the starting major league shortstop and leadoff hitter.
• Lots of talk about statistical analysis. Neukom revealed that the Giants have had a mathematician on staff for 15 years doing this analysis.
• Miller asks Sabes why he keeps the number-crunching secret from fans: “Why wouldn’t we?”
• Miller asks for Sabean to tell us about a good, interesting stat, or special formula. Sabean talks about Win Shares above Benchmark Player, and then says they also have a stat called Win Shares Salary Projection, and notes that Lincecum should be making $27 million. This time Neukom rolls his eyes.
• Kevin Pucetas: REALLY impressed in the fall instructional league. Also, when it came to prospects, Pucetas was one of the most asked about players by other teams in trade.
• Kevin Frandsen: Wouldn’t have been in the 2nd base discussion at the end of the regular season, but he impressed in the AFL playing both second base and shortstop.
• Buster Posey: Great athlete and bat, but has never called his own game. Really needs to learn to do that. (Is this why Decker is in Connecticut?) Also, was only playing every third day in Hawaii, which led to the back-and-forth ‘awkward situation’. Sabean hints that it might have had something to do with the team being managed by a Dodger. I’m fairly sure he was joking.• I won’t spoil a surprise that Neukom told us about the team’s efforts for trying to help out the minor league teams, since it’s not final and would need ‘a lot of cooperation.’ But of all the responses, this was the only one that elicited a round of claps from some people attending. I’ll keep in contact with sources and post about it if it becomes official.
This was taped and is planned to be televised on Comcast Sports Net, but it isn’t said when. Keep an eye out.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Good stuff. Thanks for posting this.
by deuce deuce on Dec 17, 2008 10:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Rejoice!
or maybe Nick Noonan, as everyday shortstop. Noonan-lovers, rejoice!
Wild speculation: Culberson staying behind a level so Noonan can slide over to shortstop? I like it. Let him move over to 2nd if he can’t hack it on the torpedo, later, like AAA. Scouting reports that he won’t stick at shortstop be damned. Give it a shot!
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
by kennv on Dec 17, 2008 10:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
+1
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Dec 18, 2008 12:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
at this point there really isn’t much of a reason not to at least try it
by foolintherain on Dec 18, 2008 4:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BruteSentiment= the foil to TakeAGiantStepNGo
Seriously, this is one great fanpost.
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 17, 2008 11:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
+ ∞
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 18, 2008 12:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I always imagined infinity being a lot, well, larger.
by cornball on Dec 18, 2008 8:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps it really IS huge. It’ just that you’re bigger than infinity!
Good on ya, mate!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Dec 18, 2008 9:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
note, image not to scale.
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 18, 2008 10:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
David Foster Wallace wrote a great book about infinity entitled “Everything and More: A Compact History of Infinity”
anyhow, there are very small infinities as well. infinitely small.
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Dec 18, 2008 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I started to read that book, but it seemed to go on forever.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 19, 2008 9:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"The average 4th hitter in baseball drove in less runs than Molina. Look it up."
Lulz. But that was the only real objectionable part of the whole thing, so I’ll let it slide.
by Grant on Dec 17, 2008 11:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
it’s like he’s shouting at us: “See? Statistical analysis! SEE! SEE!”
Oh, Sabes! You’re just too much.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Dec 17, 2008 11:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I leave my math to xanthan thank you.
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 18, 2008 10:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t let it slide. The correct grammar is “the average 4th hitter in baseball drove in fewer runs than Molina.”
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
by Kitspool on Dec 18, 2008 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't correct those..
With fewer intelligence than you.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 18, 2008 9:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This was taped and is planned to be televised on Comcast Sports Net, but it isn’t said when.
by TimLincecumIsGod on Dec 17, 2008 11:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
PBS
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 18, 2008 5:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
PBS
Perenially Blocking Schierholtz. Yeah, the Giants have been tuned to that station for a couple of years now.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 18, 2008 5:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Post Bonds Suckitude
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 18, 2008 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
PaBloSandoval
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
by Giants_Junkie on Dec 19, 2008 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Man there was so much info in this that it coulda been like 10 fanshots. Great stuff.
my cousin and i got noah lowry's autograph after he came out of a porta-potty. he was nice about it.
by hubert on Dec 17, 2008 11:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Excellent post . Thanks.
Sure would like to see that.
by armzdealr on Dec 18, 2008 12:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Note of interest: Wilson is Zito’s roommate in L.A., and has Zito on a workout called P90X that a few Giants are on.
I’m anticipating the inevitable photoshopped before and after pictures of Zito pertaining to this workout.
by deuce deuce on Dec 18, 2008 12:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Should we be ashamed...
That our high priced bazillion-dollar signing is using a fitness routine available by infomercial?
by CaliforniaSoulPatch on Dec 18, 2008 9:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol Metallica poster
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 18, 2008 11:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol Metallica hair.
I can haz homerunz!
by jbowl on Dec 18, 2008 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The pic on the right reminds me of Steve Buscemi from Airheads
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 18, 2008 5:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh, yeah now that you mention it.
by chilibean_3 on Dec 18, 2008 9:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is this an add for breast enhancement?
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 18, 2008 11:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It seems more like a hair product ad: his hair looked much less stringy in the after picture.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 19, 2008 2:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
STOP HACKING MY COMPUTER
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 18, 2008 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Brute Sentiment
My go to guy on eye rolling. Great post.
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping a foot on American soil and has "looked just super so far," according to Felipe Alou...according to Baggs.
by BrianBokake on Dec 18, 2008 12:49 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
Brute did his customary great job in getting us the scoop, but the pièces de résistances were the eye-rolling observations. Great stuff!
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 18, 2008 5:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BEEFCAKE!!
This is the workout Wilson’s got Zito on: P90X EXTREME HOME FITNESS
"I didn't know (after seeing a spectacular over-the-shoulder catch) whether to shit or go blind." - Former Giants Outfielder Harvey Kuenn on Willie Mays
by stealth snail on Dec 18, 2008 1:18 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The secret behind the P90X system is an advanced training technique called “Muscle Confusion”
cool
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
by kennv on Dec 18, 2008 1:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 18, 2008 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the real secret behind the P90x extreme home fitness
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
by rxmeister on Dec 19, 2008 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To upgrade to Pro!
It’s so simple!
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 19, 2008 9:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know why, but my first impression of the picture was a stick figure guy holding an umbrella that got turned inside out by the wind.
by Natto on Dec 19, 2008 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or a windshield wiper on a really dirty window of a car traveling at such an astonishing rate of speed that it pulverizes a bird and the wiper has caught the bloody carcass
ohhh sweet microdot…
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Dec 19, 2008 4:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok..
That’s disturbing. Are you seeing anyone, professionally?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 19, 2008 5:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope , I'm a rank amateur.
I can pencil you in for Thursday.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Dec 21, 2008 11:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pricey little system. Then again, ya’all know the best ways to get rich: start your own church, or diet program.
by Merope on Dec 18, 2008 5:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and now I gotta know what the Duke’s got up his sleeve
"I didn't know (after seeing a spectacular over-the-shoulder catch) whether to shit or go blind." - Former Giants Outfielder Harvey Kuenn on Willie Mays
by stealth snail on Dec 18, 2008 1:21 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Win Shares?
Seriously? SRSLY?
I hope he just picked that because he thought the word “win” would dazzle and confuse people and because the team actually uses it.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 18, 2008 1:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure the Giants win shares are plummetting in the stock market too.
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 18, 2008 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Brute
For those of us out-of-market, muchas gracias!
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 18, 2008 5:49 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Seconded.
This changed teh tone o my whole day – in a good way!. Thanks.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Dec 18, 2008 8:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Win Shares Salary Projection
Sounds like WAR$.
Thanks for the recap, Brute.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 18, 2008 5:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
How much should Tim make?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 18, 2008 7:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that Marcel has him projected as a 3.10 FIP starter next year. If he pitches 200 innings, he’ll be worth about +5.8 wins above replacement.
5.8 * 4.8 = $27.8M
So, Sabes is pretty much right in his valuation of Lincecum. If Zito pitches 180 innings with a 4.65 ERA — Marcel has him at 4.65 — he’ll be worth about +1.7 wins above replacement.
1.7 * 4.8 = $8.16M.
Hello, $10M overpay. Does anyone think Zito can produce a 4.6-ish ERA next season? I don’t know.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 18, 2008 7:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know!
No.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 18, 2008 7:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He just needs to get back to the old vintage 2007 Barry Zito. Ah, good times those were.
Disfrute Los Gigantes every day at www.leftymalo.com
by leftymalo on Dec 18, 2008 8:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
So if Bonds was putting up one of his +10 win seasons he’d be worth $50M/year?
Actually, my mind is completely blown that the even have graduated to win shares. But all the (good) stats in the world mean nothing if you ignore them.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Dec 18, 2008 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You need to add this to your sig
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 19, 2008 9:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mentions Renteria’s second half again, and says he will be a bridge to Manny Burriss, or maybe Nick Noonan, as everyday shortstop. Noonan-lovers, rejoice!
Big part of Renteria’s signing was how uncomfortable Burriss looked in the AFL, particularly with a knee injury. The team decided it wouldn’t be fair to ask a kid who was essentially just in A-Ball to be the starting major league shortstop and leadoff hitter.
These two quotes together give me confidence that the braintrust does indeed have a plan and isn’t just hap-hazardly signing guys because they’re there. As we talked about at the time of the signing, Manny’s a nice player, but they’d be asking him to make a big jump and this short-term deal with Renteria lets him develop prpoerly.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 18, 2008 5:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Does Noonan have any chance of playing SS in the majors? I think it might be wishcasting to expect him to transition to SS and stay at the position in the majors. I’d love it if he could but I think every scouting report I’ve ever read on him suggests that he’ll make his home at 2B.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 18, 2008 6:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll also say that I’m fine if the Giants move Noonan over to SS while Culberson stays a level below him, but I just don’t know what his chances are of staying at the position.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 18, 2008 6:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What else will you say to yourself?
You’ve got a pretty good internal conversation creator I’d have to say.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 18, 2008 7:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let it be.
He is siphoning off a few of the extra voices in my head. And I am grateful for the increased amount of peace. Please don’t ruin it for me. Now if i could just do soemthing about this hat hair after wearing so much tin foil for so long.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Dec 18, 2008 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dual processor
That’s just cpu0 talking to cpu1.
Josh Phelps is the new Scott McClain.
by EliminateMe on Dec 18, 2008 9:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Noonan at Short
Maybe they are just looking for someone to play short in a Rich Aurilia type of way.
by W8ingForATitle on Dec 18, 2008 9:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They need someone to protect Dave Roberts in the lineup after he posts a .600 OBS and signs a 3 year extension.
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 18, 2008 10:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh...
…Actually, Sabes compared Renteria to Aurilia when he was a full-time shortstop with a little less power.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Dec 18, 2008 10:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I always thought it was strange how Noonan was pretty much pegged as a 2B from the day he was drafted. An 18 year old who was a defensive star at SS in high school should at least be given a chance to get a longer look there in the low minors. A move to 2B later on doesn’t hurt anything.
by mxmob33 on Dec 18, 2008 10:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Stop making sense!
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 21, 2008 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't, like, just about everyone a good SS in college?
Okay, maybe not literally, but the bar is set pretty low at the HS level. Most guys good enough to get drafted were probably the best athlete on their high school team, and, as long as they were right handed, that probably meant they were the SS.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 21, 2008 4:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
That’s exactly why I don’t mind the Renteria signing. There’s not really any harm in keeping Manny in the minors for a year longer, and then re-evaluate come next year. Perhaps Renteria had a great year and is tradeable. Perhaps the 2B mess was horrible and Burriss takes over that. Perhaps Renteria bombed and Burriss takes over SS and we have a $9MM backup SS. A lot of things can happen.
However, this does burn up one of his cheap years in the majors. How I wish they wouldn’t have promoted him that quickly.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 18, 2008 7:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If there is no call up tell sept. how can it burn a cheep year?
I there is a call up we have issues ( again?… still?… who can keep those two tenses straight with this team? /shrugs) and a cheep year is the least of issues on the the table.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Dec 18, 2008 8:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well I'm talking long term..
It will be sooner for him to reach free agency.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 18, 2008 9:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
(at least I think so)
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 18, 2008 9:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am pretty sure if he sees no MLB time between opening day and September 1 he has no time on his MLB service clock. That clock is also figured by actual number of games on the 25 man roster. (Sorry I don’t remember the ratio.) So realy the bigges single worry for Burriss if Bench Rot™.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Dec 19, 2008 8:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't worry about burning Burriss's cheap years
If he becomes a good enough MLB player to make it to free agency and be worth some money on the open market I think we will all be thrilled and pleasantly surprised.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 19, 2008 10:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And we’ll wish him well as he signs the 4 yr/$22 million contract with the Nationals.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 21, 2008 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
However, keeping Burriss in AAA all year is just in theory. If Renteria flexes his suck muscle, gets hurt, or the starting 2B gets hurt for a large period of time, we will see burriss
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Dec 19, 2008 6:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Renteria flexes a massive suck muscle then ....
In that case we have much bigger issuesin play then a player getting closer to arbitration and free agency.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Dec 19, 2008 8:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
actually, i think it wouldn’t be as big of deal as say…rowand continuing to flex his suck muscle offensively and defensively, being as Renteria is only around for 2 years and Rowand is around for 4
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Dec 19, 2008 9:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Brute
Excellent Freakin Post ! That was like watching a day and and half of ESPN condensed down to… a lot of bullet points. Seriously though, great post.
My adopted sons Matt Downs and Ben Copeland . Still not ranked in the McC prospect list.
by nvsfg on Dec 18, 2008 7:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
With the DVR I can condense an hour long Sportscenter to less than seven minutes of highlights + fast-forwarding through the other crap. ESPN is officially the CNN of sports.
by cornball on Dec 18, 2008 8:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you watch SportsCenter?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 18, 2008 8:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I watch it as much as I watch CNN
Which means never. Once I discovered the condensation phenomenon, I stopped. Cold turkey.
by cornball on Dec 18, 2008 8:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to put it or ESPNnews at night to fall asleep..works better than Tylenol PM sometimes when you have to get up at 6
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 18, 2008 10:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just have trouble dealing with all this coherent formatting.
please remove the bullet points and let it all run together.
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Dec 18, 2008 7:53 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT BLOCK O TEXT
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 18, 2008 7:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer text-on-a-stick
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 18, 2008 8:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mmmmmmm yummy.
Dammit I’m hungry! Stop making me more hungry!
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 18, 2008 8:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t worry, pie will arrive shortly.
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 18, 2008 10:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
mmmm, pie.
![my favorite pie is [insert flavor of pie]](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3262/3106333836_d21aa3780e_m.jpg)
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Dec 18, 2008 11:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It never gets old
Side note: In google searching Felix Pie and clicking on this pic, I was treated to the headline: Chicago Cubs Player Felix Pie Twists Testicle…
Ouch.
by The Double Deuce on Dec 18, 2008 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope it was his own…
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 18, 2008 1:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Insert your theory here (that's what she said!)
I won’t spoil a surprise that Neukom told us about the team’s efforts for trying to help out the minor league teams, since it’s not final and would need ‘a lot of cooperation.
Since we have to wait, what is your guess as to how they will help out the minor league teams?
My guess: Nude cheerleading between innings!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 18, 2008 8:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
sabotaging the A’s move to Fremont?
by oldjacket on Dec 18, 2008 8:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes please
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 18, 2008 9:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like to see Fresno or San Jose play a few games at AT&T when the Giants are on the road.
by Norm Median on Dec 18, 2008 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LET THEM PLAY! LET THEM PLAY!
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 18, 2008 5:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That is EXACTLY the question I asked Neukom.
It led to the secret.
However, I will say that it has nothing to do with any of the minor league teams playing at AT&T Park.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Dec 18, 2008 11:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
damn, that would have been really cool if it was true
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Dec 19, 2008 6:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it...
Televising some minor leage games on Comcast, now that they’re part owners?
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 19, 2008 9:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m thinking it has to be that
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 19, 2008 10:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
....or have the minor league game in AT&T before the Giants game
giving the fans the value of a doubleheader. They also could promote the other teams in the system by broadcasting parts of their games before and after the Giants games on the inhouse monitors and Jumbotron.
by nelson95 on Dec 21, 2008 8:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oooo...I like this game
I guess it’s weekly motivational speeches from two of the previous cast members of Diff’rent Strokes, Gary Coleman and Charlotte Rae.
by Charming Devil on Dec 18, 2008 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Since he knows the big team won’t win next year, I think he’s going to send his best players to the minors. Randy Johnson’s going to be PISSED when the season starts and he’s optioned to Connecticut!!
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
by rxmeister on Dec 18, 2008 7:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But Hondo will be thrilled!
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 21, 2008 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
“Don’t be a Dana Plato”
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 24, 2008 12:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Noonan shortstop
this could be a nice trial / experiment. I have posted lots of complaints about lack of position flexibility Giants prospects have…compared with LA bums who used to have a knack for moving players to a position where they would have value (Davey Lopes and Bill Russell as infielders; Russel Martin as catcher)
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
by foothillsfan on Dec 18, 2008 8:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Well if you’re going to go back to Lopes and Russell as examples, then we should get some credit for putting Willie McCovey in RFand Jim Ray Hart at 3B.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Dec 18, 2008 9:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to lol
If Zito comes back looking like beefcake.
Maybe he will finally feel @ home in SF ;)
by FairweatherFan on Dec 18, 2008 8:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Not beefcake
"Brian Wilson is going to live at Barry Zito’s house in Los Angeles this winter. Zito said he’s going to train like a madman, so he’s got the perfect housemate.
‘He’s going to look like a descendant of Adonis,’ Wilson said."
by Norm Median on Dec 18, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Greek mythology ftw!
Someone’s read his Ovid, it seems.
by cornball on Dec 18, 2008 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Giants' number cruncher
This guy has been with the team for fifteen years, and this is the first time we’re hearing about it?
by biff pocoroba on Dec 18, 2008 9:21 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
15 year number cruncher
I’m fairly certain that’s not true, unless Bobby Evans, Matt Nerland, or a scout is NOW doing statistical analysis and they’re claiming he’s been doing this for 15 years. Unless they’re claiming the database guy has been doing this all along, which I also don’t think is true.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Dec 18, 2008 9:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They don’t let him out of the STATS LAIR very often.
Josh Phelps is the new Scott McClain.
by EliminateMe on Dec 18, 2008 9:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hello. I 'm the Temp assigned here today from Devils Advocate(tm)
/ shows bussiness card with picture of the 2 men in suits haking hands form Pink Floyd’s " Wish You Were Here".
Just because he has been doing doing work does not mean upper management has been willing to listen. And there has been recent changes in upper management the last couple years. So perhaps the jury should remain out on this topic fo a bit?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Dec 18, 2008 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps he wasn't talking about counting....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Wd-Q3F8KM
by OmahaGiants on Dec 18, 2008 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it’s a 15-year old number cruncher.
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
by Kitspool on Dec 18, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
most of his time gets wasted trying to keep up with Zito's stats
One walk… AH HAH HAH HAH Two walks…. AH HAH HAH HAH Three walks…
by foolintherain on Dec 19, 2008 12:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Everybody count with me!
How many dollars over 7 years is too many for Barry Zito?
1 dollar, 2 dollars, 3 dollars…
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 19, 2008 11:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Zito - Before and After
No Photoshop Necessary
Leading the Pro-Aaron Rowand contingent on the McC!
You can ridicule me in 2009 if you like...
by ThrillisGone22 on Dec 18, 2008 10:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Excellent, I think Fassero has more heat on his fastball than Zito.
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
by Mike Hawk on Dec 18, 2008 12:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
former Giants closer!
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Dec 18, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
Gamer
Leading the Pro-Aaron Rowand contingent on the McC!
You can ridicule me in 2009 if you like...
by ThrillisGone22 on Dec 18, 2008 8:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bruuuuute!
“I won’t spoil a surprise that Neukom told us about the team’s efforts for trying to help out the minor league teams, since it’s not final and would need ‘a lot of cooperation.’ But of all the responses, this was the only one that elicited a round of claps from some people attending. I’ll keep in contact with sources and post about it if it becomes official.”
How about for those of us who aren’t in the bay and can’t watch it (or are simply impatient)
by NeifiChicken on Dec 18, 2008 10:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Heh...
…let me talk to some of my sources that can let me know exactly how close this is to being done. If it doesn’t work, it’d just create a lot of disappointed people (albeit mostly for people in a certain market).
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Dec 18, 2008 10:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really hope this is the case.
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 18, 2008 11:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
San Jose games on Comcast SportsNet BA would be awesome.
by mxmob33 on Dec 18, 2008 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be the logical conclusion I would draw from what’s been said so far. Still, the word “cooperation” makes me think of more than one team, but I’m not sure then what the surprise would be.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 21, 2008 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bah!
Why’d you say that? Now I won’t be able to think about ANYTHING else all day…
Jerk.
by The Double Deuce on Dec 18, 2008 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that’s what I was thinking
"I didn't know (after seeing a spectacular over-the-shoulder catch) whether to shit or go blind." - Former Giants Outfielder Harvey Kuenn on Willie Mays
by stealth snail on Dec 18, 2008 1:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fresno is getting a new lefty...
Number 75?
by NeifiChicken on Dec 18, 2008 11:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really care if it's confirmed
I hereby waive all rights to pull a Sabean and go off on you if it turns out to be bogus, so please tell us.
by Norm Median on Dec 18, 2008 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
SJ giants.......
slippers……….mugs and wallpaper?
by caincecum on Dec 18, 2008 6:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
get that sucker on youtube pronto
i adopt brian sabean... take that dramatic irony!
by Headhunter Rollins on Dec 18, 2008 10:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Or we’ll level Toronto!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Dec 18, 2008 11:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Henry Schulman on his blog linked to this story in regards to the Giants interest in Randy Johnson.
A McC newcomer but not outstanding.
by SFGuy on Dec 18, 2008 4:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
or rather linked here on this page as opposed to story.
A McC newcomer but not outstanding.
by SFGuy on Dec 18, 2008 4:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep. It’s on MLB Traderumors too.
by Charming Devil on Dec 18, 2008 6:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and many retards have already commented on it
OLD GUYZZZZZZZZZ LOL!!!!!!!!!
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Dec 18, 2008 6:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If they can laugh has we paint their bottom red I have noooooo problem with that. Hey its been a while since my team was threatening to other fandoms. I want me some of the feeling again.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Dec 19, 2008 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is what I like to see after a seven hour plane ride.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Dec 18, 2008 4:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I like to see a beer myself.
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Dec 18, 2008 6:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like to see ground.
I can haz homerunz!
by jbowl on Dec 18, 2008 6:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like to see palm trees and a drink with an umbrella in it.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 18, 2008 6:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually was writing something earlier and I typoed ground as “groud” and it made me smile.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Dec 18, 2008 8:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lolz. I actually thought jbowls said groud instead of ground.
by cornball on Dec 19, 2008 5:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
who wouldn't?
i like to see me too.
Randy Winn cannot play third base. Randy Winn cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz, Giants 3B of the future! Randy Winn cannot play third base.
by groud on Dec 19, 2008 4:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just had one! \o/
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Dec 18, 2008 8:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully not one with drinkability…..
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 18, 2008 9:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t think drinkability is important?!
by chilibean_3 on Dec 18, 2008 9:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Drinkability? When I think of Bud Light, I think of ralphability. It’s so much easier on the way back up than other beers.
by cornball on Dec 19, 2008 5:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
…and a music post on page 1.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Dec 18, 2008 6:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve been up since the equivalent of 1:30 AM PST :(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Dec 18, 2008 8:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your body is all hai wtf iz goin’ on
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 19, 2008 5:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"A lot more frustration than in past years in making trades…To get any kind of bat that would be an improvement would require giving up pitching."
Sabean’s thoughts when discussing possible trades with other GM’s: "What the…? They want something from us???? WTF!!!!
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.
by thehavenot on Dec 18, 2008 7:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I thought that was the point of having so much pitching.
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Dec 18, 2008 7:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Woah!
This is cool. I invoke your name and you appear.
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.
by thehavenot on Dec 18, 2008 8:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
also
Woah Lowry!
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Dec 18, 2008 8:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Once again
There is no “woah” – unless you’re trying (and failing) to spell Lowry’s first name.
Woah (rhymes with Noah)
Whoa! (sounds the same as "woe")
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 21, 2008 1:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, the reason for my joke.
glad you caught it.
I noticed earlier this year that people seemed to have started spelling whoa woah.
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Dec 21, 2008 7:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
only if you're staring into the mirror
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Dec 18, 2008 9:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s better than what happens when I say howtheyscored three times.
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.
by thehavenot on Dec 18, 2008 11:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Biggie Smalls, Biggie Smalls, Biggie Smalls
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
by Giant among Angels on Dec 21, 2008 7:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Brute should have waited until Jan 1 for this post. The fanpost of they year was already awarded for 2008.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
by rxmeister on Dec 18, 2008 7:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Also, when it came to prospects, Pucetas was one of the most asked about players by other teams in trade.
If that is true then that is really good news. Pucetas has never received much praise from scouting types despite consistently dominating, and that has always tempered my excitement about him quite a bit. If other teams are coveting him that lends a lot of credibility to those stats.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 18, 2008 8:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
I absolutely am ecstatic about Pucetas finally getting his due. However, I definitely was surprised to hear this tidbit. I would’ve been expecting it to be more like Sosa or Martinez rather than Pucetas, due to higher ceiling or level.
Pleasant surprise. I definitely am rooting for Pucetas.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Dec 18, 2008 11:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Duh? Huh?
Reiterates the desire to not trade Sanchez, who is being asked about a lot, due to uncertainty of Lowry and a need for a 5th starter already.
followed by
Only Free Agent mentioned: Randy Johnson. Sabean confirmed they are working hard on a one-year deal. Felt like the deal is inevitable. Also-signing Johnson allows the team the flexibility to trade Sanchez for a bat.
So…they don’t want to trade Sanchez…but they know they can? Or is that poster speculation?
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Dec 19, 2008 5:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yea, I didn't make that clear...
Sabes says right now he doesn’t want to trade Sanchez because they already need to find one fifth starter, and are unsure about Lowry’s status, so that trading Sanchez would very much weaken the pitching that is a strength.
However, if they sign Johnson, depth will not be such an issue, and that frees up Sanchez to be traded to improve the team elsewhere.
Not my speculation, that is what Sabean said is possible.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Dec 19, 2008 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It was clear to me the first time. Vic must’ve been drunk.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 19, 2008 9:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn , I missed it.
The drunk thing , I mean.
Although the whiskey dick is still with me.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Dec 19, 2008 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Need some help
Do not understand. If SF finds a deal worth making and it includes Jonathan Sanchez they will not make the deal until they sign RJ? Why? They only want to sign RJ for ONE season. If the deal is worth making it should stand on its own merits.
Can understand SF wantiing more starting pitching but one season for RJ would hold up a trade worth making?
by wilriv21 on Dec 19, 2008 12:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the logic is that having four sure starters and taking a chance on the 5th (Lowry, rookie, etc.) is ok, but getting down to three sure starters and making 40% of your rotation a crapshoot is too risky.
I pretty much agree if that’s what they’re thinking.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 19, 2008 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if the only thing holding up a Sanchez trade is ensuring the Giants signing a free agent pitcher to a one year deal it does not make sense to me.
by wilriv21 on Dec 19, 2008 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, think of it this way.
Randy Johnson for one year.
Then, ideally, Madison Bumgarner (who, the more I see of him, is the young Randy Johnson except less ugly) takes that spot.
BTW, count me in as sold on Johnson, if only for Madison. The arm angles and body types are quite similar, and both are starting out with similar profiles. If anyone can pass along great advice to Bumgarner, it’d be Randy.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Dec 19, 2008 10:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
“Those damn reporters , Madison – ya gotta stiffarm them right away. Otherwise they’ll crowd right in on ya.”
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Dec 21, 2008 11:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Having listened to Eric Byrnes on KNBR a couple times now, he keeps saying that Johnson doesn’t exactly offer advice, or give it out freely.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Dec 23, 2008 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW, count me in as sold on Johnson
That’s what she said!
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 24, 2008 12:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I Don't Understand The Logic That Signing The Big Unit Makes Sanchez Expendable
If we can’t count on Lowry’s health then we still need Sanchez to fill out the 5 rotation slots (Lincecum, Cain, Johnson, Zito, Sanchez). Trading Sanchez would still require Misch or someone like Pecetas in the rotation. Randy Johnson would get us one step closer to making Sanchez expendable but it would not get us there.
by giantsrainman on Dec 19, 2008 12:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
See my answer to willyrivvy above
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 19, 2008 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool stuff
Just one thing – it’s “Win Shares Above Benchmark Player”. Though, now that that I think about, it could have been Sabean’s mistake and not yours.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 19, 2008 5:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nope, it's mine.
I was doing shorthand notes and shortened it to Bench….and then I wrote this up at close to midnight. :)
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Dec 19, 2008 9:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I missed, but what was the event? Were you at the filming of
this show, or know somebody who is involved? The title refers to
Inside the Clubhouse so I’m guessing this is a TV program, but I’m
still kind of confused.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Dec 19, 2008 9:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Essentially...
About 50 or so season ticket holders got to go into the actual team clubhouse at AT&T Park, with a stage set up at the end that used to be Bonds’ (I believe), and Miller hosted it with Sabes, Neukom and Boch all there (and Zito, briefly).
It was taped for television, and we were told it will air on a to-be-determined date.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Dec 19, 2008 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that’s a player who poops his pants and leave a stain on the pine.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 19, 2008 9:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
• I won’t spoil a surprise that Neukom told us about the team’s efforts for trying to help out the minor league teams, since it’s not final and would need ‘a lot of cooperation.’ But of all the responses, this was the only one that elicited a round of claps from some people attending. I’ll keep in contact with sources and post about it if it becomes official.
PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEEASEPLEASEPLEASE
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 19, 2008 10:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
A McCoven vs. the SJ Giants game!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 19, 2008 12:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
McCoven vs. Giant’s wives softball game?
by mxmob33 on Dec 19, 2008 12:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
McCoven vs. Giants wives mud wrestling!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 19, 2008 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pass on messing with someone’s wife Would like to mud wrassle with Jessica Yellin.
by wilriv21 on Dec 19, 2008 1:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In my case: Pass on messing with getting my ass kicked someone’s wife
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Dec 19, 2008 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fixed
McCoven’s moms vs. Giant’s wives softball game?
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 19, 2008 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
McCoven wives vs. Giants wives?
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Dec 23, 2008 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF OF MY WIFE YOU DIRTY APES!
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Dec 23, 2008 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I did look it up
The 4th place hitter averaged 110 RBIs in the majors (total 4th RBI divided by 30 teams). Molina had a nice 95 RBI but of course suffer by comparison because he didn’t play 162 games. If we did it by RBI per AB, then he does come out better than average, 17.9% versus 17.4% for the league.
Of course, this ignores the issue of how many runners and RISP that Molina saw versus the average 4th place hitter, but given that the Giants are acknowledged as being deficient in hitters, odds are he was probably below the mean in terms of runners on base and RISP the times he came to bat. In any case, that is not what Sabean said.
Perhaps he’s talking about specific hitters who were batting 4th mostly, that could change things up. But taking just the hitters who qualified in terms of AB batting 4th, the average is 103. Benji was one of the few to qualify: he had 92 RBI batting 4th and was 5th among 9 players with over 500 PA.
The only way I could get this to work was to take in more players with lower PA totals, but of course then Benji would of course have more RBI than the average player, because he also had more PA (or for that matter, AB) than the average player as well.
Makes me wonder about the mathematical and statistical abilities of the Giants statistical staff, assuming this factoid comes from one of them.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 19, 2008 2:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps he’s talking about specific hitters who were batting 4th mostly
That’s what I thought he meant
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 19, 2008 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OGC - You Sure Know How To Make The Simple Complicated
Elimating 21 teams because they didn’t have a 4th place hitter with enough ABs is eliminating the 21 teams who most likely have the least effect RBI bats available and therefore are trying many in hopes of finding one. Saying Bengie is below average because he is 5th amoung the top 9 and/or below the average of the top 9 is just frankly as silly as comparing only Bengie’s 4th place hitter PAs against all other teams PAs for all of their 4th place hitters. All these comparisions need to be done to the same scale. You can’t use one scale on one side of the comparision and another scale on the other side.
by giantsrainman on Dec 19, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a pointless argument anyway
Molina had an unusually good year w/ RISP. Ignoring the ongoing debate over the repeatability of “clutchness,” Molina the individual player has personally shown no ability to maintain such a “clutch” performance in the long run (ie: over several, or even two consecutive, seasons).
Depending on RBI to make the argument is like using win shares: it’s cherry picking stats that are designed for evaluating past value, but are relatively inferior at predicting future results.
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by Bhaakon on Dec 19, 2008 6:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Um...
He hasn’t shown that ability?
RISP Stats:
2008: .316/.360/.513/.873
2007: .315/.346/.443/.789
2006: .274/.311/.496/.807
2005: .292/.350/.408/.758
2004: .320/.352/.536/.888
2003: .346/.362/.589/.951
With a bit of a blip in 2005, I’d say he’s had a good track record of doing the job. Every season except for 2005 he’s had a better OPS with RISP over his overall numbers, and the only other year that becomes debatable is in 2006, when he hit for slightly higher average and OBP, but significantly less slugging overall than in RISP situations.
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by BruteSentiment on Dec 19, 2008 11:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2008 was his best OPS w/ RISP in the last four seasons by.066 OPS
That’s not what I would call a small margin.
It was also .102 OPS above his career performance w/ RISP. Again, not a small margin.
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by Bhaakon on Dec 20, 2008 1:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
.066 OPS is about 5 walks and 3 doubles...That's not a small margin?
It doesn’t take much for a couple of bloops or poorly played balls and a few scared pitchers to create such a disparity when talking about OPS, especially in such a sample size.
And Career stats are a far cry from claiming he can’t string together two seasons with a good showing in RISP. By that margin, he had five of six seasons with an OPS with RISP over his career average. I daresay that is a trend.
I would say he’s shown that in the second half of his career, he is consistently better when he bats and can drive runners in. In an 11-year career, that is not a small thing.
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by BruteSentiment on Dec 20, 2008 4:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And you accuse me of misusing stats...
5 walks and 3 doubles are 8 less outs and 11 more total bases, yeah I’d say that’s pretty significant in a 158 AB sample.
Of course, there’s the small sample size issue, but that really helps my argument (ie: that his 2008 RISP performance was fluky) more than yours.
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by Bhaakon on Dec 20, 2008 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you’re missing the larger point: Bengie’s really good at this RISP thing.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 21, 2008 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Except when he's not
like 3 of the last four seasons.
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by Bhaakon on Dec 21, 2008 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Stats Above Do Not Support This Claim
Only 2005 can be argued as just an average season with RISP. None of them were bad and all of them were better then his non RISP efforts.
You are trying way to hard to argue your positon with almost nothing in the way of actual evidence that supports your position.
by giantsrainman on Dec 21, 2008 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually the stats do support this claim, in the context of the thread
That context being “for a #4 hitter.”
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by Bhaakon on Dec 21, 2008 9:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Molina
Career: .277/.310/.415.
Career RISP: .294/.334/.438.
2008 RISP: .316/.360/.513.
He has shown a tendency to hit better with RISP, but not by much, and 2008 still looks like a pretty big flook.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 20, 2008 2:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Considering we're talking about 'Clutch', something often equated with experience...
…I’d say it’s misleading at best to make such a stat comparison for a whole career versus giving weight to later years where he, y’know, has more experience.
Split the career into halves and the difference is huge, but it’s also a five year sample size, which is not small and enough to at least have to look at and think it’s not a coincidence.
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by BruteSentiment on Dec 20, 2008 4:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just because it is often equated with experience doesn’t necessarily mean that it has anything to do with it. There are no studies on this specific subject, since nearly everyone who’s studied clutchiness concluded that it doesn’t exist at all. But that’s a whole other story.
More importantly, splitting the split into different splits can get you in trouble. We’re talking about less than 120 AB’s per year, so you are stepping into SSS territory.
Another problem with splitting his career into half is that Molina has simply been a much better hitter in the last 4 years than he had been in the 5 years before that, RISP or not. His numbers with RISP have improved as he aged, but so have his non RISP numbers, so a lot of that is just general improvement as opposed to extra clutch.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 20, 2008 12:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with the SSS argument...
…is that you feel the SSS stats are enough to provide that it supports your point, but not enough to say it doesn’t.
A full season is enough for me to say he’s done it consistently, as is a string of seasons, which is the whole argument that started this debate.
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by BruteSentiment on Dec 20, 2008 7:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why you gotta hurt me like that?
The problem with the SSS argument is that you feel the SSS stats are enough to provide that it supports your point, but not enough to say it doesn’t.
When did I say that? All I’m saying it that as the SS gets smaller, the results become less meaningful. Saying the we’re dealing with a 5 year sample size, like you did in the comment before this one, is misleading, since it’s only 120 AB’s per year. That’s why I think we should look at his entire career, even if we give more weight to recent years.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 21, 2008 7:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm shocked that a Giants fan would equate clutchness with experience
We’ve had front row seats to so many veteran squads choking away playoff games.
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by Bhaakon on Dec 20, 2008 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Clutchness CAN come from experience...
…that does not mean it always does.
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by BruteSentiment on Dec 20, 2008 7:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hitters on average hit better with RISP
although off hand I don’t know by how much.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Dec 20, 2008 8:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
MLB, 2007: .268/.336/.423.
RISP .272/.357/.423.
MLB, 2008: .264/.333/.416.
RISP: .266/.355/.414.
They basically hit the same except for BB’s, which I’m sure is just a result of pitchers being more willing to give up a BB with a guy on 2nd/3rd. That’s not what happens to Molina – he actually gets (or has gotten) more hits with RISP, which raises his AVG, and with it his OBP and SLG.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 20, 2008 9:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I Think .047 More In OPS Is Hardly "not by much" I Think It Is Very Much "By Much"
by giantsrainman on Dec 20, 2008 12:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As shown above, the baseline situational improvement for RISP is about .020 OPS, so Molina is really only improving by .027. Which is still an improvement, but doesn’t somehow turn him into a clutch machine or anything (particularly when his overall numbers are pretty stinky for a 3/4 hitter).
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by Bhaakon on Dec 20, 2008 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not going to argue
Exactly how much is “much”, but what I meant was that the difference isn’t overwhelming.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 21, 2008 7:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
RISP
Bengie Molina is a good hitter with runners in scoring position. Otherwise he’s not particularly good with the bat. Edgardo Alfonzo was another hitter who was better with RISP. Of course, prior to joining the Giants, Edgardo was a pretty good hitter in other circumstances, as well.
by sharksrog on Dec 22, 2008 11:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Please do not mention any of the “E. Alfonzo’s”
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Dec 23, 2008 9:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To be blunt...
This sort of vagueness about a stat is very much the reason for the quote I used to have on my sig:
“Too many people misuse statistics the way a drunk misuses a lamppost; for support rather than illumination.” — Mark Twain
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by BruteSentiment on Dec 19, 2008 10:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Every argument used evidence (statistical or otherwise) for support, illumination is the product of peer review. Enlightenment is a communal project.
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by Bhaakon on Dec 20, 2008 1:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant that quote as much towards Sabean as anyone else.
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by BruteSentiment on Dec 20, 2008 3:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To be more detailed...
Martin effectively pointed out that the accuracy of Sabean’s statement can be challenged when using a certain set of determining factors for a control group, but can be upheld when using a different set.
That is the art of using a statistic for support rather than illumination.
That said, many such examples can be found daily on these message boards and other online sites, including my own. Such is life.
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by BruteSentiment on Dec 20, 2008 4:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
About statistician
The Giants have had a statistician before, in the 70’s and 80’s, I’m blanking on his name right now (Ralph Nelson?), who moved up to a high management position later with the Arizona D-backs (they were like a Giants alternative universe after they began, or like the Giants version of the Misfit island in the classic Rudolph stop-action kiddie show with Burl Ives and Holly Jolly Christmas, Nelson, Brenly, Williams, Roger Craig, others). The Giants of the 70’s and 80’s were not to be admired, and if there was any sabermetric work done then, it either failed miserably or perhaps he was never listened to (which is possible).
So just because they may have a statistician (or mathematician as Neukom noted) doesn’t mean that the Giants were actually using sabermetric principles all along. I would need a more definitive statement from the Giants management before I accept this statement as fact.
Since this couldn’t be the first time that reporters asked Sabean about this, I have to think that Neukom might have decided that as a part of marketing the team to fans, the team will have to cop to sabermetric principles when asked and use the staff mathematician/statistician as cover for doing it for a while. I can see why they use Win Shares, it is associated with Bill James, leading proponent of sabermetrics, plus Baseball Prospectus is associated with the A’s the most (and as I’ve noted before, they really skewered – unfairly I believe – the Giants over the years). And they kept a handy metric and example to throw out there when the opportunity arised.
For if they really have had one on staff for a while doing this stuff, how did they whiff so badly on the Pierzynski arbitration hearing, just by reading the Sporting News, I knew the Giants, to “win” the hearing would have to offer somewhere in the $2.5 to 3.0M area – he asked for an won $3.5M while the Giants offered $2.25M. Still bothers me to this day.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 19, 2008 2:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I have to think that Neukom might have decided that as a part of marketing the team to fans, the team will have to cop to sabermetric principles
I think this is correct. Neukom seems to gratuitously bring up stats and sabermetrics all the time. I think he feels like that will reassure a lot of the fans and make the Giants seem more forward thinking. It seems like a marketing thing to me.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 19, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But besides us Internet nerds, does the general public — Joe Gamer — give a shit about saber stuff? I would say it’s a resounding NO. Turn on ESPN or a PTI type show and it’s all about DINGERS, WINZ, and SAVEZ!
I fail to see how the average fan — the kind sitting at home on a Friday night and wondering if he should go see a game or not — gives a crap about VORP, WAR, Win Shares, ERA+, UZR, or any other “saber stat”. I just don’t think you can market it to the casual fan…yet.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 19, 2008 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think the general baseball fan public has gotten on board with the general idea of using sabermetric principles in running an organization. Most of them couldn’t tell you anything about ERA+ or win shares, but I think they would agree with a broad statement like “it’s a good and innovative idea to use statistical analysis in scouting and player development” even if they don’t fully understand what that means. In talking about this, Neukom only speaks in the broadest of terms, I haven’t heard him get in depth on any stats, and it seems from Brute’s writeup that Sabean only did when pressed. I think that they feel like the average fan hears “we use stats” and thinks “oh, that’s good, they are on the cutting edge”
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 19, 2008 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
also (and since you replied to your own post yesterday) I’m not suggesting this is going to be the centerpiece of their marketing campaign. I don’t think we’re going to see posters around that say “OPS+ of over 100 and one of the best fielders according to UZR! Randy Winn is a gamer!” I just think Neukom sees is as a nice thing to plug when he has the chance.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 19, 2008 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the general idea of using sabermetric principles in running an organization
It should be used along with other factors in assisting an organization’s decision making but not to run an organization.
by wilriv21 on Dec 19, 2008 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
I think that is the way most of the general public (myself included) would see it.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 19, 2008 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In This Case I Don't Think FLS Was Saying "Use" Exclusively But Rather "Use" Inclusively With Other Factors
I don’t think you two disagree here and I am in agreement with what I see as both of your views.
by giantsrainman on Dec 19, 2008 3:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you're exactly right
and what I said (not to get into a semantic word game here) was “the general idea of using sabermetric principles in running an organization” not “using sabermetric principles to run an organization”
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 19, 2008 3:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
WTF
by FairweatherFan on Dec 20, 2008 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I waned to extend an olive branch at one of our rare moments of agreements
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 20, 2008 6:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If by "yet" you mean "ever"...
But numbers don’t lie.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Dec 19, 2008 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But besides us Internet nerds, does the general public — Joe Gamer — give a shit about saber stuff?
Speak for yourself! My nerdiness goes far beyond the finite limitations of cyberspace.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 24, 2008 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If
If the Giants have had a statistician for 10 to 15 years and still made some of the decisions they made, I’m a little worried.
by sharksrog on Dec 22, 2008 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Employing a statistician isn' the same as listening to his/her advice
or having a good statistician, for that matter.
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by Bhaakon on Dec 22, 2008 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said before, they haven’t employed a statistician for 15 years, unless they’re claiming the DB guy provided that information. But I’m fairly positive he didn’t. And I can almost certainly guarantee whomever they’ve used hasn’t been providing these statistics for 15 years.
I suspect Neukom means they’ve been employing a guy for approximately 15 years, and he’s recently started providing the FO with statistical analysis.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Dec 23, 2008 10:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually this wasn’t the first time they’ve made this assertion. Sabean either last year, or the year before in his online chat with fans (immortalized by Josh from Hollywood) claimed that they ‘d had a couple of computer guys around for years and that, in fact, the Giants organization had been on the cutting edge of the statistical analysis revolution. If that transcript’s still around somewhere, we could find the exact quote, but it’s pretty close to that I’m sure.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Dec 23, 2008 12:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm really curious who they claim that to be
I can tell you I drive a Ferrari and make 10mil a year. I could tell you that again next year. It won’t make it true.
I can believe that someone is now doing statistical analysis, but it’s not been going on for fifteen years.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Dec 23, 2008 9:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Go Pucetas!
He’s my son!
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 19, 2008 2:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What does everyone make of this other part of the post?
"Sabean noted a big name LHH free agent would be the ‘type seen to play first, but doesn’t want to" and a RHH free agent "Lets in more runs than he scores."
I suspect he’s talking about Adam Dunn and Pat Burrell, respectively here. Or is Sabean talking about Manny with the second part of that statement?
Either way, isn’t he telling us the Giants are done with any FA bat-shopping this offseason, and will pursue what they can by way of trade with Sanchez and others when/if RJ is aboard?
Matt Cain's drinking buddy
by Buck Henry on Dec 20, 2008 11:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think that’s true for either Manny or Burrell, but they are the two worst defending left fielders in the league over the last 3 years. The LHH guy has to be Dunn, and personally I wouldn’t care to see him on the team if he’s not playing first. He’s probably worth the money to upgrade over Phelpsikawa, but probably not worth it over Lewis or Schierholtz.
I’m not sure we should go out and trade Sanchez, if teams can’t look past his ERA from last year. If the only thing we can get is a one dimensional slugger, I’d rather keep the guy who has the potential to dominate mlb pitchers, especially since the Giants just don’t have anything of quality to slot into Sanchez’s rotation slot.
by oldjacket on Dec 20, 2008 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I read this as Dunn and Burrell
Dunn not wanting to play 1st, and Burrell raising red flags about his ability to play there.
If anything, this gives me some comfort that they are at least evaluating defense. I don’t know if I agree with their assessement, but the probably have information that we don’t about Burrell Re: 1b.
Altho, really – 1b is a pretty easy position to play.
by FairweatherFan on Dec 20, 2008 6:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you think that the Giants aren't evaluating defense
Not necessarily doing a good job of it, but I’m sure that they’re eying those error totals and fielding percentages.
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by Bhaakon on Dec 20, 2008 9:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
looking at error totals and fielding percentages is not evaluating defense
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 21, 2008 1:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I Think That Was Bhaakon's Point - Your Sarcasum Meter Must Be Turned Off
That said I bet the Giants have a much better idea about how to properly evaluate defense then any of the systems available to us and especilly better then any of use can do just depending upon our own eyeballs.
by giantsrainman on Dec 21, 2008 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
I’m skeptical, though. They’ve talked up alot of guys as plus defenders who turned out to be less than sterling (Rowand most recently, Ransom, Ellison).
I think it’s more that defense is a b1tch to analyze at the best of times, and they’re no better at it than anyone else.
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by Bhaakon on Dec 21, 2008 4:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s hard for me to accept that when their last two major FA signings were Rowand and Renteria, both poor defenders at crucial defensive positions — and they touted Rowand’s D specifically when making the signings. Going back a year further they signed Dave Roberts with the intent of having him play CF, despite the fact that their new manager should have known perfectly well that he was a poor defensive CF and had to be used defensively in LF, which his offense couldn’t really justify.
Can you actually point to some move recently that was based to some degree on defense where subsequently they were proved correct in their opinions?
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Dec 22, 2008 6:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Vizquel
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 22, 2008 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah yes. Quite true. Which does, I suppose, prove that the blatantly obvious, at least, doesn’t escape their notice.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Dec 22, 2008 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Winn too
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 22, 2008 1:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Winn was brought in as a CF
At which point everyone seemed to suddenly decide that he was a poor defensive CF and they needed to bring in someone better (and, whoops, they seem to have brought in someone equal or worse).
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by Bhaakon on Dec 22, 2008 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that the team's reluctance to trade Winn
Is a testament to their appropriately valuing his defense. If you just look at the shiny #’s, Winn looks like a role player on a contender.
But everything taken into consideration, He’s the best player on this team. I think the team realizes his value and isn’t willing to trade him just to trade him.
On the flip side, I think they realized that Durham, while a good offensive player, was giving some back w/ the glove and just wasn’t that useful to this team.
by FairweatherFan on Dec 23, 2008 8:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
1) If they appropriately valued Winn they wouldn’t have spent the two offseasons trying to replace him in CF.
2) Durham spent three years here as a poor defensive 2B who was a good offensive player when healthy and then was resigned for two more. When are you suggesting they came to that realization? Before they reupped him or after?
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Dec 23, 2008 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Matheny too
His rep was a defensive catcher. Wasn’t he coming off a GG year with the Cards?
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 24, 2008 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But we’re talking about moves that turned out well.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Dec 24, 2008 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not likely
I don’t think Jonathan Sanchez is likely to be traded. If he were to be so, it would likely be somewhat of a blockbuster deal.
by sharksrog on Dec 22, 2008 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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