Top 4 Prospects per system
by caincecum on Dec 16, 2008 3:17 PM PST
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PrintHey everyone the Braves system vs our system gave me an idea......how do are top 4 prospects stack among the top seven systems in baseball?
OAKLAND: Cahill, Anderson, Inoa Cunningham
ATLANTA: Heyward, Hanson, Schafer, Freeman
Florida: Maybin, Stanton, Morrison, Coughlan GIANTS: Bumgarner, Posey, Alderson, Angel V
Rangers: Feliz,Holland, Smoak, Andrus
TAMPA Baltimore: Wieters, Tillman, Matusz, Arrieta
Price
Davis
Beckham
Brignac
- Also rank the systems 1-7. My personal ranking: 1.Rangers 2. Baltimore 3.Tampa 4.Giants 5. Atlanta 6.Florida 7. Oakland
- Florida and Atlanta could have gone either way a but Stanton and Maybin have scary strikeouts to go with their huge ceilings.
- Rangers great upside from each position as a variety of positions sealed the deal
- Baltimore-love Weiters can put up .310/.380/520 as a catcher potentially with good D remaining three can be front of the rotation starters
- Price to good to ignore, Davis another high upside arm not that full away. Beckham toolsy as they come but very far away not a big fan of Brignac but Price/Davis to good to pass up.
- Giants mix huge upside from their arms with high ceiling first baseman and premium talent behind the plate.
- Oakland-Cunningham could be weakest number four. Inoa offers ridiculous upside but hasn't even thrown a pitch in the U.S Anderson and Cahill don't have upside of other pitchers on the list.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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But it feels so right.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 16, 2008 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
lol Oakland #7
My avatar not withstanding, even the biggest A’s hater shouldn’t have the A’s system at anything less than #3.
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It just occurred to me, you probably meant rank the top 4 from each system
Even then, Oakland still belongs above SF, FLA, probably ATL
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well .....
if you look at the players “ultimate ceiling” you could argue Oakalnd could have 2 number 2 starters an ace an a regular. You could then argue the Giants could have an ace a number 2 an all star catcher and a all star 1b. And no I’m not rating the systems on a whole but looking at each teams elite prospects.
So 4 is the number for elite prospects?
Nice, since that’s where the Giants prospect list conveniently falls off a cliff.
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uh o
i think someone is a tad angry the A’s can’t match their cross town rivals in impact talent……
Oh fuck I forgot lists are based just on ceiling projection and not a combo of projection plus likelihood of reaching it.
Wait a minute…
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xanthan are you still waiting?
Its much easier if you just leave yourself in standby mode.
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LOL, they should have bring your farm system to work day to fill up some seats at McAfee
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
You mean Oakland Coliseum? No wait, Network Associates Coliseum… Wait, it’s seriously McAfee now? Boy, and people make fun of Pac Bell/SBC/ATT/Mays Field going through name changes!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
Yea..
But who calls the Coliseum it’s actual name. Just like Candlestick. Who called it whatever it was called?
I just all ATT the Phone Booth.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
ZING!
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping a foot on American soil and has "looked just super so far," according to Felipe Alou...according to Baggs.
luckily they don’t have to worry about any of these prospects being blocked by free agents who want to sign there
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 17, 2008 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
Does it really matter?
I don’t care if the A’s have 10 prospects who go on to become All-Stars, because they’ll all be gone after no more than two seasons in Oakland.
You wanna know what the difference between Florida and Oakland is? The Marlins wait until after they win the World Series to blow up their team.
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 16, 2008 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
why exactly
what makes the A’s farm system so great is its depth, not the top talent. I don’t think its laughable to put the giant’s top talent above the A’s, in fact i think its easily arguable.
nah
The A’s top 4 actually isn’t really that incredible; it’s their depth in decent prospects that really makes their system. Cahill and Anderson are very good, but Cunningham isn’t that great and his ceiling is pretty mediocre. And Inoa hasn’t even taken a pro field yet. As far as I’m concerned that’s like us putting Rafael Rodriguez above Posey. Anywho, I’d have pretty much the same list only with Florida ahead of us and Tampa in last. And that’s one hell of a top 4 Texas has…
.311/.384/.496
Cunningham’s career MiLB line, and he’s only 22. He’s hit at every level while being among the youngest players at that level. And he plays a good corner OF/not bad CF from most accounts.
I’m not quite sure what that makes his ceiling, maybe like a more powerful Randy Winn or less speedier Johnny Damon? Its not a glamorous ceiling, but its far from mediocre. And again, things like this (if done correctly imo) are based on a combo of projection and chance of reaching them, not just what they could be. In that case Inoa belongs over everyone probably.
And if you’re going to ding Inoa for not pitching yet, then replace him with Carter or Cardenas. I realize Villalona is a couple years younger than Carter but their ceilings are not all that different at this point, except Carter has demonstrated the ability to walk.
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k lets not compare ANgel V
and Chris Carter first off when Chris Carter was 17 he was in high school. When ANgel V was 17 he was leading the Augusta Greenjackets in home runs. Carter was 4 years older and only playing one level higher. When ANgel V is 21 he will be in the major leagues compared to when Carter was 21 he was in High A. Also I agree Cunningham has a decent ceiling around a .280/.370/480 of but everyone in the Giants top 4 has a higher ceiling significantly enough that they are all higher rated prospects. In fact theres no chance in my mind the a’s last two prospects of the four (Inoa, Cunnigham) rank higher than the Giants last two Alderson and Angel V
I only compared their ceilings
Villalona looks like he’s going to turn out to be a big power 1B/DH who hits lots of HR. That’s what Carter has already done. Their ceilings are like Ryan Howard, except Carter has walked more while Villalona hasn’t.
Also you keep talking about ceiling with regards to Giants prospects > Cunningham but then completely blow it off when talking about Inoa, whose ceiling I’m going to call Pedro Martinez, since we can just toss ceiling about lightly.
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Question
Why is an A’s fan arguing prospects when the second any of them make it to the majors Billy Beane trades them for more prospects. It must really suck to constantly have one of the best minor leagues and a middle ground major league team.
by Michael Uhlhorn on Dec 16, 2008 6:42 PM PST up reply actions
leave him alone
he’s not worth it. Lets just forget about him and go to our better ballpark and enjoy our better hotdogs, better coke slides, better ocean view, better chacha bowls, better garlic fries, better clam chowder, and better Tim Lincecums.
cept the thing is
most people consider MadBum better than Cahill and same for Alderson over Anderson, though that’s more of a closer arguement. Say we consider them equals. Now would you rather have a potential Ryan Howard and a likely Brian McCann, or a potential Ryan Howard with crappier average and a Randy Winn/Johnny Damon?
Show me someone who takes Alderson over Anderson
I’ve never seen that anywhere, and quite frankly it seems silly. I will give you Bumgarner on top, that’s fine. I personally take Anderson over Cahill but both are certainly ahead of Alderson. The gap between Bumgarner and the two A’s pitchers is smaller than the one between the A’s pitchers and Alderson.
Buster Posey doesn’t project to have anywhere near the power McCann has, and he certainly isn’t “likely” to turn out to be him.
And again, you ignore likelihood of reaching their ceilings. All of the A’s prospects are at least 1 and more likely 2 levels ahead of their Giants counterparts. That counts for a lot, not the nothing you guys seem to be treating it as.
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i like how you ignore my posts anyway...
Bumgarner has a higher upside than either Cahill or Anderson. The A’s don’t have a position player of comparable value to Posey and Angel V’s offensive ceiling is as high as they come so I think that right there seals the deal also u keep talking about Inoa’s ceiling but then again we could say Rafeal Rodriguez COULD be the next Vlad Guerrero.
again, you seem to favor just pure upside over upside + likelihood of reaching it
If I can’t change your mind on that then this whole discussion is pointless
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No,
i don’t just pick pure upside but if you bring up Inoa as your #3 prospect as a limitless ceiling than I can make the same argument about players like Wendell Fairley and Raffy Rodriguez whom are far away from the minors.
Besides
We all know Rafael is a first ballot HOF…. right?….right?!?
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping a foot on American soil and has "looked just super so far," according to Felipe Alou...according to Baggs.
also.....http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/12/16/695362/dispute
guess whoose winning?
lol whoose, this is awesome on so many levels you have no idea
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explain?
and could u respond to any of my statements or do u jst avoid them on purpose?
I'm working right now
Don’t worry sweety after my tables break at 9 I’ll make sure to come back to all of your well thought out, literate, coherent posts and respond to each and every one of them <3.
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Don’t worry sweety
Getting a little creepy in here. I’m going to excuse myself to another thread.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
Emotion.
Does not compute.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
IAWTC
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
Yeah this whole thing is awful.
I feel partly responsible too.
To make up for it I offer this:
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only after you admit
the majority would pick our 3……..http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/12/16/695362/dispute
STOP.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Collaborate and LISTEN
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
My band actually plays an acoustic version of that that lasts for about six and a half minutes…comes with some cool as ice dance moves too!
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
I read that as “lasts for about six and a half hours” and I was like “epic”.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
Well, you do seem to understand the McCoven’s brand of humor.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Dec 16, 2008 10:32 PM PST up reply actions
Sounds Like You And Caincecum Need To Get A Room
May I suggest you carry on at caincecum.com
by giantsrainman on Dec 16, 2008 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
okay
Cahill and Anderson both spent the majority of their seasons at A+. They each pitched about 30 innings in AA. This does not mean they are 2 full levels ahead of MadBum and Alderson. On top of that, Alderson is likely to start in AA this year, and MadBum might as well. They’re not that incredibly far ahead on the development track. Now Alderson vs. Anderson: Alderson made his pro debut this year. He showed an obscenely good K/BB ratio and he maintained it through a lot more innings than Brett Anderson OR Cahill have ever pitched in a season. Alderson has shown the ability to strike hitters out (although Anderson is better at that), walk very few hitters (which Anderson is quite good at too), and eat a ton of innings in the process. And this is also his first year. Same with Bumgarner. And all that Bumgarner guy did was lead the minor leagues in ERA, K’s, and K/BB, while sporting a WHIP lower than both Cahill and Anderson.
Buster Posey doesn’t project for power, but he does project to be a top 5 catcher. That’s quite a bit more than Cunningham can say as an outfielder. Posey’s floor is pretty much slightly above league-average catcher. You can’t really argue he’s just gonna flame out and not make it while Cunningham will.
Chris Carter is 21 and just 1 level ahead of the 18 year. Carter hasn’t shown much ability to hit for average. Yes, Anvil hasn’t shown much of anything either, but he was a 17 year old in a league full of 21 year olds. Chris Carter played against people his own age. Yes, his power numbers are very impressive, but he also strikes out a ton and hits for crappy average. He is by no means a lock for the majors either. I’d rather have the kid with the ability to hit for power and possibly decent average as well.
Like I said I put Bumgarner on top
Though the crucial thing you’ve ignored with your stats looking is GB%.
Minor league Career GB%
Cahill .594
Anderson .565
Alderson .450
Bumgarner .416
I haven’t searched yet but I’m guessing minor league GB% translates much better than HR/FB. Since hitters are just much better in the majors, they probably have more power, so while GB probably goes down to I think it’s not as big a difference in the HR prevention department as an increased HR/FB
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Agreed
but lets say you put Bumgarner on top right? Would you also say that Alderson outperformed Anderson in High A this year even though Alderson is a year younger? Anderson strikes out 2 more batters a game but Alderson has an era that is lower by 1.6 runs. He also walks less batters per nine innings (barely) and also batters hit for a lower average against him (barely) but he also gave up 1 less home run in about 70 more innings. His whip was also 1.09 compared to Anderson’s 1.16 very low again but still important. So would you rather take a package of Anderson and Cahill or Bumgarner and Alderson?
Can you explain to me
why AN voted so overwhelmingly more for Cahill than Anderson? How did so many people ignore Cahill’s walk rates?
Oh, and this: Bumgarner, Anderson, Cahill, Alderson. Sorry Tim 2.0 but I’d like to see you K some more ho’s before I put you at the level of the other 3
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
Why are you arguing about this?
The A’s have had one of the top farm systems for years now, and where has it gotten them? Nowhere, because all these prospects wind up on other teams!
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 17, 2008 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
I think you belong on A's Nation with all your other biased A's fans......
at the same time fine go ahead call Micheal Inoa Pedro Martinez………..wait he hasn’t thrown a pitch on U.S soil yet has he? O boy either way if we played a “game” and pulled 1000 knowledgable fans on whoose top 4 they would rather have 10 bucks the answer would be the gigantes in fact I’m going to make a poll on minorleagueball.com just because no one agrees with you doesn’t mean were ignorant matter of fact maybe it’s the other way around.
dont do that
they get pissy at giants fans…
Easy big fella.
You can say what you want about some people, but AN is one of the best sites on this network.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
McCC is better!
I’m going to create a poll for this! That’ll settle the debate!
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
Can you make one of the options Luis Perdomo?
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
What board is better poll:
A) McCovey Chronicles
B) Athletics Nation
C) Luis Perdomo
D) False
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
Nah, Felix sucks.
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
I don't care how he pronounces it
He will always be pie to me.
I CAN’T STOP THINKING ABOUT PIE!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 17, 2008 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
BRILLIANT!
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
Oh clearly.
Not saying it’s better than here. But at least they get some intelligent discussion over there and they’ve got a lot of it.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
You realize
we could also say…….“well rafeal rodriguez has been compared to Vladimir Guerruero”
“Nick Noonan has been compared to Chase Utley”… The list goes on and on
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 16, 2008 7:06 PM PST up reply actions
Hmm, it's like this is exactly my point
Which is why we use statistics and results along with projections to grade players. This is why Anderson and Cahill received B+’s, possibly A-’s if Sickels changes his mind, and Cunningham receives a B despite not having an enormous ceiling.
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fine lets talk stats
Bumgarner 15-3 1.46 era 164 k’s in 141 ip
Alderson 13-4 2.79 era 124 k’s 145 ip
Posey: dominated at FSU hit .338 in winter ball
Abgel V led his team with 17 hr’s albeit high k’s 118 but also put up a .747 ops which is pretty good from a 17 year old in low a
Anderson put up a 4.14 era in14 games in the same league as alderson…..thaen put up a 2.61 era in 6 games in double a 128 k’s on the year
cahill had around a 2.5 between high a and aa with 133 k’s
Inoa=no stats
and Cunnighman 17 hr 66 rbi’s /.912 ops .300 avg 12 sb
Wins are stupid, minor league ones are even stupider
ERA isn’t that great either, especially without adjusting for league
Winter ball means almost nothing
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this is why I don't use comparison ceilings
I only did it because that’s where all of Villalona’s value comes from because he hasn’t done much of anything in the minors yet.
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wait so
u don’t factor in ceilng’s when comparing prospects? so what do you measure besides stats and age? so according to you joe martinez should be like our #3 prospect?
I said comparison ceilings
Of course ceiling is important, but stats and age are crucial as well because ceiling is quite subjective
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of course
but one can easily argue alderson outperformed anderson at the same level albeit a year younger. Madison Bumgarner has as high an upside as any minor league pitcher and posted a 1.46 era in his first full season. Both Alderson and Bumgarner played significantly better than Anderson and Cahill in their first full seasons. And I’d dare to say Bumgarner has a higher upside than both
How hard did you work on the formatting fail? That couldn’t have happened by accident.
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
Maybe he was going for a crossword or something…
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
pivot table!
i love excel
BB should send scouts to watch cricket players.
by alea iacta est on Dec 17, 2008 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
Milwaukee needs to be in there.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 16, 2008 6:21 PM PST reply actions
Current events, movie reference and humor
+3 from me
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
Padre renuente de Luis Perdomo, porque él es todo el que se deja hasta junio.
Win.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 17, 2008 6:16 AM PST up reply actions
I Can't Stop Thinking About
Line Breaks
Leading the Pro-Aaron Rowand contingent on the McC!
You can ridicule me in 2009 if you like...
this fanpost makes the baby jesus cry
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Huh?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
I leave for 5 hours and this thread went straight to Zito….
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
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