Peavy? This sounds familiar
by pittsburghian on Dec 11, 2008 9:26 PM PST
Email
PrintI was thoroughly roasted weeks back when I jokingly suggested we solve the Padre's Peavy problem by sending local boys Zito and Roberts back home to them. Just like CC, those two might just want to be closer to home. I even got "Abe Simpson"ed to the merriment of all others.
Well, Peavy's agent at least thinks that the only likely candidate for the Padre's to unload Peavy is the Giants, as noted over on the Padres site. Well, if you really wanted to solve their problem, they are looking for prospects and other approaches to lower payroll at all costs. If I recall correctly, they are trying to put the team up for sale.
I can see sending a few of the mid-level "prospects" of the batting sort, and either one of Sosa and/or losing Sanchez to them. Today's favorite post regarding Adrian Gonzalez doesn't seem as far fetched now. If the Padres really want to drop payroll, then perhaps the Giants can get these two if they also bet some of the future, considering the ages of these two proven players also makes them relatively young and under decent contracts. I can only guess it would be 4+ players on the Giants end to make it happen, two pitchers with one ready, and two position players.
The real monkey wrench is that Adrian's brother will probably want to tag along and also fight for 2nd base.
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So has Peavy’s agent been dreaming about Adrian Gonzalez?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I Am Sure He Does Want To Steal Him Away From John Boggs (AG's Current Agent)
by giantsrainman on Dec 11, 2008 9:54 PM PST up reply actions
laugh it off all you want
we all know how youre feeling inside.
That’s kind of overstating what that article says about Peavy and the Giants…
But he also added the San Francisco Giants as a possible destination, and alluded again to the potential bonanza represented by the New York Yankees.
"He’s not a total free agent like (CC) Sabathia was," Axelrod said of Peavy. "So maybe he’d only get $150 million. … (But) Jake’s a guy who’s not going to be intimidated by New York."
Regarding the Giants: "I think they’ve got the money. But I don’t know if they’ve got the prospects."
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
They place such low value on our prospects
Maybe they’re referring to AA and AAA prospects? I don’t know, a statement like that makes me think that we’d have to give them way too much to acquire Peavy (and I’m sorry, but you guys that think there is ANY chance of prying both Peavy AND Gonzalez from SD are insane… We might as well say goodbye to our farm system) and I don’t know if that is worth it. It’s certainly a tempting thought, but I’m not so sure about it yet.
How red do you think Brian Sabean’s face will get once he gets wind of that article? The media had better look out…
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 11, 2008 10:55 PM PST up reply actions
pittsburghian, the whole point is the padres
want to dump as much money as possible. we would eat all the rest of his contract, which would be fine. its 8 million this year, and then 52 million over the next three years with a club option for 2013. i think if we took on all the money and traded them jonathan sanchez and conor gillaspie, that might get the deal done. i think if the giants feel fine about his health, they should do this because peavy is an elite top of the rotation pitcher.
LiNcEcuM and cAiN R STUDS
Conor Gillaspie cannot be traded until next August.
Sanchez, Sandoval, Henry Sosa, and Schierholtz/Lewis might get it done.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 11, 2008 10:07 PM PST up reply actions
Replace Sandoval and Sosa With Ishikawa and Bumgardner
Include Schierholtz (not Lewis) add Adrian Gonzalez on the Padres side and throw in a few lessor prospects from the Giants as needed and you have the deal we should be shooting for.
by giantsrainman on Dec 11, 2008 10:17 PM PST up reply actions
they would want at least one major leaguer (if not a couple of them)
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 11, 2008 10:26 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sorry to shatter your dreams on this
but the Padres are not parting with Adrian Gonzalez. Let’s do our best to live in the real world.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 11, 2008 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
Why?
You haven’t been eating them, have you?!
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 12, 2008 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
it wouldnt cost that much....
read my analysis of the situation below.
LiNcEcuM and cAiN R STUDS
by z4 landshark on Dec 11, 2008 10:28 PM PST up reply actions
Sign me up.
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping a foot on American soil and has "looked just super so far," according to Felipe Alou...according to Baggs.
by BrianBokake on Dec 12, 2008 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
why bailout the Padres?
I know Peavy is a good pitcher and all, but we’d really be bailing the Padres and Towers out of their own mess by adding a bunch of unnecessary payroll that will hurt our prospects of signing free agents or extending our guys for several years.
Whatever benefit we’d gain would be much less than what the Padres gain. We really shouldn’t be swooping in to save them. Just because a good player is available doesn’t mean we have to get him. Adding him really doesn’t fit into this team’s long term plan and we’d be helping a division rival who we all are supposed to hate.
I hope the Padres give him away to some other team outside the NL West (Angels preferably) and get shit in return because they’ve screwed up this whole negotiation by publicly announcing they absolutely have to trade him no matter what.
So FUCK NO and FUCK THE PADRES!
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 11, 2008 10:17 PM PST reply actions
the reason is....
at least by media accounts, and take that for what it is worth, but the padres ARE DESPERATE to deal him. they are indeed like you mentioned, in a financial crisis, and they have to move his $50 million+contract soon. with the cubs deal reportedly falling apart, they get more and more desperate and should in theory be willing to take less than peavy’s actual value. peavy is a top of the line starter and does not have a LONG contract—so teams dont get too burdened by it.
because of the sheer desperation brought on by their finances, i feel that the padres will have to move him either now or probably by midseason. why not the giants? i dont think the cost would as high as usual. i really think a package of sanchez and then “player to be named” which is conor gillaspie would get the deal down. this is because the reported cubs deal was centered around josh vitters and sean marshal. plus the guys we deal are extremely cheap. i think the padres would strongly consider it. maybe only because we are in division, would prevent this…
LiNcEcuM and cAiN R STUDS
by z4 landshark on Dec 11, 2008 10:28 PM PST up reply actions
i really think a package of sanchez and then "player to be named" which is conor gillaspie would get the deal down
yeah…not going to happen
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 11, 2008 10:31 PM PST up reply actions
that type of deal
with a recently drafted prospect simply named as player to be dealt later has precedence….I cannot search for one right now, but i’m 100% certain this has happened before.
LiNcEcuM and cAiN R STUDS
by z4 landshark on Dec 11, 2008 10:33 PM PST up reply actions
right, that is fine. That is the least of the problems in that pipedream of a trade.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 11, 2008 10:35 PM PST up reply actions
Thought so...
Gillaspie is the epitome of unproven… and Sanchez has not played well enough yet to outshine Sean Marshall that much, although talent wise he looks much better.
I also read the Cubs offered Marshall, Vitters, and Pie for Peavy… and the Padres rejected it.
I think one must ask what Lincecum would cost and then base a Peavy package on your answer… IMO of course
by lincysgiants on Dec 11, 2008 11:06 PM PST up reply actions
well
again, the Giants are not desperate or in a big financial crisis. the lincecum comparison is off basis on those two alone. i could also just be taking this author’s report too seriously though, but it seems like the padres are in desperation mode
LiNcEcuM and cAiN R STUDS
by z4 landshark on Dec 11, 2008 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
I think that you are, but even if that were the case, that supposed package still falls well short. If the Padres made an announcement “we absolutely must trade Jake Peavy by noon tomorrow” somebody would call them with a package that would easily beat that one.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 11, 2008 11:13 PM PST up reply actions
Peavy For Matt Cain
I realized I just exploded several heads over here, but I think this is a trade we should make. Matt Cain has the potential to be a Jake Peavy, but it’s potential only. I think this is a fair trade between both teams. They get a pitcher who might be elite one day, and we get a pitcher who’s elite right now. That’s a good trade for a team that wants to contend in 2009 and a team that can’t afford to. I do NOT want to trade any hitting prospects to anyone for anyone. This team needs offense too badly to trade away future studs, and it can’t get quality free agent hitters to sign to play at ATT.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
MATT CAIN SUCKS
Wins are a vital stat!
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 12, 2008 8:36 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t see it. We’re starting pretty far behind the D’Backs and Dodgers, both of whom are loaded with young hitters that will probably get better this year. I don’t see Sabean being able to improve this team by 10+ wins in one off-season even if those two teams stand still.
2010 brother, 2010.
The Dodgers and Dbacks are both losing alot via free agency, and neither is doing anything about it right now. The Dodgers probably will, but the Dbacks are broke. They’ll be paying Steve Finley, Gonzo, Unit and some others forever. If the Giants sign Randy Johnson and Pat Burrell, or even if they don’t sign Mr. The Bat and the TI/Phelps combo does surprisingly well, this team can easily contend in this weak division. It can even contend for the wildcard by beating the crap out of the Rockies and Padres.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
wildcard
is a pipe dream, too many good teams in other divisions. We either win it in the West or we go home.
by Giant Voodoo on Dec 12, 2008 9:29 AM PST up reply actions
totally agree, the dblanks and the blue balls are not looking as good as they did last year.
Really the only team that has gotten any stronger is us, but there i still time fr both them and us.
by Giant Voodoo on Dec 12, 2008 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
the team that wins the wildcard is not always the best second place team. If a division is strong, teams tend to have worse records because they beat up on each other for 19 games. The wildcard is not out of the realm of possibility.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Be careful about taking what GMs say about their financial positions seriously. Really, the D’backs aren’t losing anything they can’t replace, and like you, I don’t think the Dodgers are done yet.
I’m with you in thinking the Giants could be better, even a lot better next year. It’s just that ten wins is a lot, and I don’t like any plan that requires your competition to fall asleep on the job.
Heard the rumor of Eric Byrnes for Julio Lugo?
Man, that would’ve been awesome(ly bad). I knew this rumor was going to be shot down when the Blanks signed Felipe Lopez. I ROFL’d pretty good, though.
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 12, 2008 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t think the Dodgers are done, but they’ve got a lot of work to do just to match last year’s team.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I think
we should include Denker in any package to San Diego
by lincysgiants on Dec 12, 2008 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
who is also in low A ball
and while shows good plate discipline and has the tools, doesnt really show power yet, and is still probably 3 years from contributing to the majors. i think my problem is that i value sanchez too high…but i still think you could work off that package. maybe an addition of henry sosa and schierholtz. to those first two.
and to usefu_idiot, yes they are having trouble, but since the cubs rejected, they are also getting more worried and desperate themselves (in theory, should lower the cost). as the author of the article said, if you “cant pay the rent on the car, you cant own the car”…
LiNcEcuM and cAiN R STUDS
by z4 landshark on Dec 11, 2008 11:06 PM PST up reply actions
Pitcher A: 19-6 233.3 IP 2.54 ERA 1.061 WHIP 159 ERA+
Pitcher B: 18-5 227 IP 2.62 ERA 1.172 WHIP 167 ERA+
A is Peavy’s Cy Young year 2007… B is Lincecum’s Cy year 2008
by lincysgiants on Dec 11, 2008 11:14 PM PST up reply actions
I think using Lincecum to determine Peavy’s value is flawed for two reasons:
- As landshark said, The Padres’s stated need to move Peavy makes the desperate
- Peavy comes with a large contract and Lincecum’s value is off the charts because he’s so cheap right now (and under control)
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
furthermore, he is due
$8 million this year. if we could deal sanchez and gillaspie for him and then sign the big unit for one season (though I am not sure if our finances can handle this), we would have the best rotation in the NL. one of the best in the majors for sure: top to bottom. and i think at that point, we could legitimately compete for the western division while not really jeopardizing the future. and peavy is only 27 years old!
LiNcEcuM and cAiN R STUDS
by z4 landshark on Dec 11, 2008 10:31 PM PST up reply actions
$8 Mil is nothing for Jake Peavy
$8 Mil is Randy Wolf…
by lincysgiants on Dec 11, 2008 11:21 PM PST up reply actions
However It Is Actually $11M
Jake’s contract had a clause that increased his 2009 salary to $11M if he won the Cy Young in any of the previous years and he did just that in 2007.
by giantsrainman on Dec 11, 2008 11:36 PM PST up reply actions
would you take Sanchez and Gillaspie for Jake Peavy?? Realistically, we would have to cough up much more than that, and for that matter, much more than ANYONE else because we’re in the same division. They’re going to have to face Peavy 5 or 6 times a season, and constantly be reminded of the trade. It’s going to cost us a fortune.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
would you take Sanchez and Gillaspie for Jake Peavy??
If I had to move him and it was the best offer I got, I guess I would
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
The problem is that I’m sure it won’t be the best offer they get. And even if it was, it would have to be the best offer by alot if they’re going to deal him within the division. They’ve already turned down a deal that included Yunel Escobar, a player that has probably already exceeded anything Conor Gillaspie will be in the major leagues, and he does that at shortstop.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
But now that they’ve turned that down, does that mean they’ll get a better offer? Furcal turned down the A’s offer and now it looks like he might have to settle for less, even from The A’s.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Peavy has much more demand than Furcal.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
Congratulations! You missed my point entriely.
It was that if you utrn down the best offer you’re going to get, you might end up having to settle for less.
The Padres could be in the same boat as Furcal; wishing they’d taken the bird in the hand.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
What I'm saying is
That there’s no way that this is the best offer they’re going to get.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
It's entirely unrealistic, under any circumstances
If Sanchez-Gillaspie is the best offer Towers gets, he should hold onto him until the trade deadline.
If Brian Sabean were able to pull that trade off, he is a genius. Towers, on the other hand, would need the secret service for protection.
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 12, 2008 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Haven't you wondered why SD is having so much trouble trading him to the Cubs?
They’ve been asking for 6-7 top prospects. You can’t really think that Sanchez and Gillaspie would get it done… I can think of about 593,305 packages that Chicago would be able and willing to put together for Peavy that would be better than Sanchez and Gillaspie.
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 11, 2008 11:00 PM PST up reply actions
Josh Vitters alone would be a better package
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 11, 2008 11:05 PM PST up reply actions
you are putting too much weight on a prospect who is only 18!! sanchez has
a k-rate of 8.9/9 which show he has dominant stuff. it appears to me, that he simply wore out from fatigue in the second half. i definitely think he will throw more like his first half self as he builds up that arm stamina.
LiNcEcuM and cAiN R STUDS
by z4 landshark on Dec 11, 2008 11:08 PM PST up reply actions
Dude
Look at Jake Peavy’s K rates 05-07
by lincysgiants on Dec 11, 2008 11:19 PM PST up reply actions
what does that have to do with anything?
the point is Sanchez is more valuable than Vitters; a young, cheap pitcher in the majors with clearly dominant stuff and phenomenal K-rates is more valuable than an 18 year old putting up decent numbers in 60 games in low-A ball. Sanchez at this point is much more proven than Vitters.
You're seriously undervaluing Peavy...
And overvaluing Sanchez and Gillaspie.
by withclubsauce on Dec 11, 2008 11:55 PM PST up reply actions
I dont want Peavy. Great pitcher, but….he’s always finding ways to end up on the DL, and his postseason starts/big games have been less than desirable outcomes.
Really?
In the last 4 years he has been on the DL once. He made 30 starts in 2005, 32 in 2006, 34 in 2007, and 27 this year.
He has made 2 post-season starts. Yes, neither of them were good, but it’s 2 freaking starts.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 11, 2008 10:24 PM PST up reply actions
He was awful in the 1 game playoff vs Colorado too. And he seems to have been on the DL more than once. Maybe he hasn’t actually been on the DL, but he’s been nicked up and or hurt more than just once. He got hurt in his start vs the Cards in the playoffs the first year. And had broken a rib in their celebration before that. He’s had other various injuries the past few years too. Last year he had some elbow issues.
And he missed time the year he won the ERA title too.
He made 30 starts in 2005, 32 in 2006, 34 in 2007, and 27 this year. He was on the DL once last year and once in 2004. If that is what you consider an injury prone pitcher, you are going to have a hard time finding a healthy one.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 11, 2008 10:34 PM PST up reply actions
30, 27 starts isn’t a full season is it? He was on the DL in 2004 also. And he was on the DL in 2008. He got hurt at the end of 2006 as well.
Is he Ben Sheets or AJ Burnett? No. But he’s not Greg Maddux or Randy Johnson either.
Kinda more like Pedro.
yes, 27 was the DL year. I consider 30 a full season. The last 4 years Pedro has made 20, 5, 23, and 31 starts respectively (and before that was pretty much an ironman), so I’m having a hard time understanding that comparison. 123 starts in 4 years might not quite make you an ironman, but I think it qualifies as pretty damn durable.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 11, 2008 10:57 PM PST up reply actions
30-32 starts..
Full year.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
But his main residence is in LA.
His SF house is mainly to bone dumpster dives
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 12, 2008 8:37 AM PST up reply actions
Peavy is excellent. If the Padres are desperate and making him available at a discount, the Giants would be stupid not to explore the possibility. I have no idea what package of prospects would do the trick, but I will not whine and whinge and post ridiculous cat photos at every reported rumor of — gasp! — Pablo Sandoval or Kevin Pucetas (or whomever) being floated as trade bait.
How’s this for perspective: if Madison Bumgarner is very very very very very lucky, he will one day be as good as Jake Peavy.
Disfrute Los Gigantes every day at www.leftymalo.com
I agree, but Peavy is going to have to pitch shutouts to get a no decision if we further compromise the offense by giving them our best hitters, not to mention the fact that the hit we will take in payroll will close us out on adding additional offense to replace someone like Sandoval. We have a minor league system full of good pitching prospects, despite what a stupid agent like Axelrod says. Believe me, Kevin Towers knows our farm system alot better than Axelrod does. That’s his job.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
I would not do it
Bumgarner AND Alderson have the potential to be as good or better than Peavy. AnVil has the chance to be a Gonzo (w/o the Defense).
And anyways if we didn’t even try for CC why would we trade a gob full of youth for Peavy? Gonzo is also a SD native and I doubt he would want to leave.
Hasheem "The Dream" Thabeet or Brandon Jennings. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
That might be overstating it
but I agree that we should hang on to these guys (who are the reasons that our farm system is now highly regarded) and be patient for the next season or two. It’ll pay off.
That is, unless we were somehow able to steal Peavy/Gonzalez
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 11, 2008 11:05 PM PST up reply actions
Better idea than trading our farm system for Peavy:
Sign Ben Sheets for a couple of years until Bumgarner and/or Alderson are ready.
only if Sheets agrees to a heavily laden incentive deal based on number of starts. And if we do this, we need to do it now. Once guys like Lowe and Burnett sign, he’ll be the best guy out there and the big market losers on Lowe and Burnett will come calling with bigger bucks than we have.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Use the farm to make the big club better
Teams should use their farm system to improve their teams. We love the prospects. Often too much love. Here is a BA Top 10s list for each team beginning from 2005 to present. Check it out to see how the prospects of yesterday often to not reach their ceiling or even the big leagues.
Peavy has reached the bigs. Has won a Cy Young. Is an excellent pitcher at a very reasonable price. Looking back at the Giants Top 10 list from 2005 which would you not have dealt away in a package for Peavy? If you say the Giants do not draft well then look at other teams Top 10 list.
2005
1. Matt Cain, rhp
2. Merkin Valdez, rhp
3. Fred Lewis, of
4. Eddy Martinez-Esteve, of
5. Nate Schierholtz, of/3b
6. Alfredo Simon, rhp
7. Brad Hennessey, rhp
8. Craig Whitaker, rhp
9. David Aardsma, rhp
10. Travis Ishikawa, 1b
preach brother
amen to that. i love prospects but their flame out rate is quite high. jesse foppert, jerome williams are also some recent memories.
LiNcEcuM and cAiN R STUDS
by z4 landshark on Dec 11, 2008 11:55 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t think any of us disagree with you on the notion that trading some prospects for Jake Peavy is a good idea. We just want you to be realistic about what it would take. Sanchez and Gillaspie would be only a start, Kevin Towers response would be “ok, that sounds good, what two other top notch prospects would you like to include?”
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 12, 2008 12:02 AM PST up reply actions
Probably could get Peavy for 4 prospects. Here is McCoven’s Community Top 16. Which one of these fine young lads would be a deal killer for you? And don’t forget buyer’s market so Sabean will be dictating.
1. SP Madison Bumgarner
2. C Buster Posey
3. SP Tim Alderson
4. 1B Angel Villalona
5. 2B Nick Noonan
6. 3B Conor Gillaspie
7. SP Henry Sosa
8. OF Rafael Rodriguez
9. OF Roger Kieschnick
10. SP Kevin Pucetas
11. 1B Travis Ishikawa
12. OF Wendell Fairley
13. P Scott Barnes
14. SS Brandon Crawford
15. SS Ehire Adrianza
16. LHP Clayton Tanner
at one point the rumor was that Towers wanted 5 players, at least 1 or 2 of whom were major leaguers. I don’t know if that price has changed or not. I think you would have to start with Sanchez and either Lewis or Schierholtz and add 2 prospects outside of the top 4 in that list (Sandoval could also be one of them). Could Sanchez, Lewis, and Sandoval get it done? I think those 3 plus Sosa or Pucetas might do it (and personally, I would do that).
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 12, 2008 12:33 AM PST up reply actions
That price would be too high for me.
I’d give them Sanchez, their choice of Lewis/Schierholz and any two young guys EXCEPT Madbum, Posey or Sandoval.
(I’d hate to lose Villalona, but he still seams so far off and his shine has worn off for me since he’s now a 1B.)
So the deal would probably be Sanchez, Lewis (he might remind them of Mark Carreon), Anvil and Alderson. The Padres might like that; two guys that would start right away and two prospects with VERY high upsides.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I say start with Sanchez and Lewis
After that, I have an extremely hard time adding any of our top 5. Maybe Alderson, and then any of the other 11 players to finish the package.
If Sabean could get it done, I’d be fine with Peavy for Sanchez, Lewis, Alderson and another prospect outside of the top 5.
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 12, 2008 10:17 AM PST up reply actions
by the way
I really hope we don’t undervalue Nick Noonan
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 12, 2008 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
Look at Detroit
They took a huge risk in trading all those prospects for Cabrera and Willis last year. In one season they went from trendy World Series pick to an average team, at best. The worst news for them is that they now have one of the most shallow farm systems in baseball.
I’m not against the acquiring Peavy- I just think we’d have to give up too much to get him. Discount or not, the Pads aren’t going to just give him away to a team in their own division.
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 12, 2008 12:11 AM PST up reply actions
Also, Arizona
Haren was fantastic last season for the D-backs, and they still failed to win the poorest division in baseball.
…And you guessed it, their farm system is now barren. They have a lot of high-ceiling players on the MLB club, but what if that doesn’t pan out the way they hope it does?
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 12, 2008 12:13 AM PST up reply actions
Sabean to Towers:
“Give me Peavy, and you will take a player to be named later, which I will choose. Don’t worry, I promise he’ll be pretty good.”
I’m not mocking you, that’s just the first thing I thought of. Anyway, you make a lot of sense, I’m just reluctant to dismantle our farm system now that it is easily one of the top 5 in baseball. It’s been a long time since we could say that.
i hear you...
and hopefully it just keeps on improving with our #6 pick in this year’s amateur draft!!
LiNcEcuM and cAiN R STUDS
by z4 landshark on Dec 12, 2008 1:19 AM PST up reply actions
I've loved Peavy
Ever since he was a rookie. I’m a hug Peavy fan even though I’m a even bigger Giants fan. He pitches with such passion, and is one of the most intimidating pitchers in the legue.
Even with Peavy we would not be good next year. The multiple prospects would be ready to contribute down the road when we are good. Even though a lot of the proposed deals are more than fair exchanges for Peavy, I just don’t think this really makes sense for the Giants right now.
I hear the padres give good
Headley
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Dec 12, 2008 10:39 AM PST reply actions
08 Dbacks
Dbacks got Haren and they were what 82-80 last year…a much as i would like to have Peavy he would get us what 10 more wins
thats 82-80 for 2009 and 2nd Place to the Dodgers!
Get Gonzalez if anything, he’s worth 30+ HR and 100 RBI
For the lov of God, Gonzalez is not available!!!
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 12, 2008 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
sign Tex and Trade for AGone!
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
hell, why stop at trading for Gonzalez? I say we swing a trade for Hanley Ramirez, and then talk the Diamondbacks into dealing Justin Upton our way. Maybe we should try to acquire A-Rod from the Yankees and get them to pay most of the salary.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 13, 2008 1:54 AM PST up reply actions
The key Cub pieces the Padres wanted
were Sean Marshall and Mark DeRosa. The rest was roster-filler and future hopes. The talks broke down because Towers wanted 6:1 or 7:1 deals, and Hendry (rightly) didn’t want to cough up that much.
More importantly, Hendry couldn’t afford to take on the remainder of Peavy’s contract and backloading, given how much the Cubs owe existing players in 2010-2012. The Giants will shed over $22 million after 2009 (Molina, Winn, Roberts, Lowry), and can easily afford Peavy’s out-year costs.
The Padres wanted Marshall, and our counter to that would have to be Jonthan Sanchez. The Padres also wanted DeRosa, but we don’t have a 33 year-old 2B who can hit 20 HRs. Then again, if Towers is getting desperate, who says we have to match up with them as well as the Cubs would have?
The big bidder now appears to be the Angels, so the question is whether it makes sense for the Giants to at least kick the tires on this to determine if a rotation of Lincecum/Peavy/Cain/Zito/Randy Johnson is worth coughing up Sanchez and a good young hitter (Lewis or Sandoval) plus other pieces to round it out?
Matt Cain's drinking buddy
Josh Vitters, an uber prospect, was involved in these discussions all along. Vitters alone, exceeds any of the packages that most people in this discussion seem willing to part with.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 12, 2008 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
Did Hendry ever agree to Vitters' inclusion?
Matt Cain's drinking buddy
no deal was ever made of course, but almost all of the reporting I read about the rumors seemed to agree that Vitters would have been included and that wasn’t a sticking point for the Cubs.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 12, 2008 1:15 PM PST up reply actions
I haven't seen anything
that indicated Hendry would send Vitters along. I’m not trying to be contrarian here, just trying to get a sense of what Towers could actually have expected from the Cubs in an attempt to see what it would take from the Giants to get Peavy.
Towers wanted Marshall, and Hendry didn’t want to give him up. Sanchez is a roughly comparable piece. Towers also wanted DeRosa, but Piniella said no way. The only player we have remotely comparable would be Frandsen, but there is no evidence that Kevin could hit 20 HRs in the bigs, at least not yet. As Goofus has said upthread, Towers now finds himself having to settle for a worse package than he could have had a week ago, especially from the Braves.
So what would it take from the Giants to get Peavy and lock down the best top-of-the-rotation lineup in the National League through 2011, at a salary cost far less than CC would have cost?
If you could have Lincecum/Peavy/Cain through 2011 and still have rotation room for Alderson or MadBum as your #5 to create perhaps the strongest rotation in the NL, and still have the minor league pitching pieces and departing salary room (Molina/Winn/Roberts/Lowry) to upgrade offensively significantly in 2010, would it be worth it to you to offer up Pablo or Lewis, and perhaps AnVil now for that?
Just asking.
Matt Cain's drinking buddy
In addition to Sanchez of course.
Matt Cain's drinking buddy
I like your thinking……….Peavy for Sanchez and Lewis is a no brainer. Sandoval is another story though.
Tom O' Malley - 1983 SF Giants opening day 3B; 1989 International League (AAA- Mets) MVP; 1995 Japan Central League MVP
by dave mustaine on Dec 14, 2008 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
I think you are under-estimating what the Cubs were offering, and I am quite certain that DeRosa or Marshall were not deal breakers.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 12, 2008 3:05 PM PST up reply actions
Hendry said there was no way they would move Marshall as part of a Peavy deal.
Lou said he didn’t want to move DeRosa. I can only go off of what they themselves said. Regardless, what Towers could have gotten last week exceeds what he can get now, except for perhaps what he can rip off from Arte Moreno, who isn’t exactly a fool.
Matt Cain's drinking buddy
I don’t think that is the case. And if they did say that I don’t believe them. Marshall and DeRosa are very replacable players, they do not hold up trades for 27 year old Cy Young winners. If you are trying to imply that Peavy can be had for something akin to a Marhsall and DeRosa package, I think that is pretty self-evidently laughable.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 12, 2008 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure you think its laughable on the one hand,
and then don’t believe their own words on the other. It seems like you have your version of the truth, and they have theirs. Oh well, we’ll agree to disagree.
Matt Cain's drinking buddy
I wouldn't hesitate to throw Lewis in, if the Padres ask for him
I think Schierholtz will be the better player anyway, offensively and defensively
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 12, 2008 5:20 PM PST up reply actions
I can’t tell if that is wildly optimistic or wildly pesimistic
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 12, 2008 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
yeah, I meant aside from being wrong
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 12, 2008 8:49 PM PST up reply actions
If he’s part of a package for a player like Peavy then I think Lewis is expendable, simply because we have an outfielder with a lot of talent (who has performed well in the limited play he’s recieved) waiting to get a shot. I don’t think anybody would deny that Schierholtz is a better fielder, and the guy can hit too.
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 13, 2008 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
I think I’d take Lewis over Schierholtz on the defensive side. Lewis has better range, Schierholtz has the better arm and both have their “Eugenio” moments out there. But, Lewis could play center in a pinch, but I don’t think Nate could.
I also worry about Nate’s approach. He doesn’t walk much, there’s not a lot of reason for a pitcher to throw him a strike. Still, he’s improved a lot in the last couple of years, and I hope he gets a shot, just not at FLEW’s expense.
I don't think we've been watching the same games
Every time a ball was hit to left field last season it looked like Freddy had an adventure just finding the ball.
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 14, 2008 2:52 PM PST up reply actions
Found Another Rainman - The Angels GM!
Maybe The Padres Would Consider Trading Adrian Gonzalez Too!
Towers told the Padres’ flagship radio station, 1090-AM, that the Angels expressed interest in acquiring both Peavy and first baseman Adrian Gonzalez. The Padres were intrigued to know what the Angels would offer in return for the two, but Towers said it didn’t go that far. Padres CEO Sandy Alderson has said the Padres will retain Gonzalez at least until the 2009 season and have no plans to deal him. Gonzalez is due a budget-friendly $3 million next season and can’t become a free agent until after the 2011 season.
Has is past tense and Towers was "intrigued to know what the Angels would offer in return for the two".
Has is past tense
This is kind of a reach. “Has” meaning he said this in a time before now and is still very much true. If the quote was “had” I’d be inclined to agree with you.
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 13, 2008 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
You Are Ignoring That Towers Was "Intrigued " About What Might Be Offered
This is what shows that the has may be changing.
by giantsrainman on Dec 13, 2008 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not ignoring anything. You’re wrong. I’m right. That is just the way it is.
Thank you very much.
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 13, 2008 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
Well I Guess That Settles It Then
no need to look at, evaluate, or discuss the facts and opinions all we have to do is just wait for the all knowing Lars to share is infinate wisdom.
by giantsrainman on Dec 13, 2008 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
In This Context It Is As I Said Past Tense
by giantsrainman on Dec 13, 2008 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
dude, you really need to get over this
by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 13, 2008 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
i picture grm tearfully placing an Adrian Gonzalez Starting Lineup figurine upon a bookshelf, next to the dusty action-figure of A-Rod in pinstripes.
[sniffles] “Why won’t they listen to me?!”
by ExcuseMeSwing on Dec 14, 2008 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
if we got gonzalez and peavey and gave up the farm
we’d be damn good.
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