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Winter Meetings and the San Francisco Giants, Day III

174246766_ea2fd78204_tiny by Grant on Comment 291 comments

What’s left:

  • Assorted goofs with a bat but no glove who would cost a lot of money.
  • Assorted goofs with a bat but no glove who would cost a lot in trade.
  • One goof with a bat and a glove who would require a ridiculous, 8- to 10-year contract.
  • Young, MLB-ready position players with power! All we would need to do is trade Matt Cain and Madison Bumgarner.

All of this rosterbation has me chaffing. At the end of the night, I’m willing to go home with something that looks like Randy Johnson and call it an offseason. I’ll hate myself in the morning, but at least I didn’t get down on one knee and get myself into something for which I wasn’t prepared.

So here is where we stand:

Giants fine with youth at infield corners

Team underwhelmed by trade offers for third basemen

I’m sold. No Burrell clomping around first. No Dunn running around left field with pants full of granite. No Sanchez-for-Cantu nightmares. No Sanchez-for-Encarnacion nightmares. No pipe dreams involving Adrian Beltre coming over for Jack Taschner and a pack of Rolos that Larry Baer sat on. This is the team. This is our 2009.

Oh, some people aren’t happy. Take the post-article commenters from sfgiants.com. Please.

if sabean doesnt make soemthing happen NOW, next season is already overr. unless he gets 2 solid hitters to put in the middle of the order they dont stand a chance.
Put Pablo at third and let Travis and Bowk fight it out for the job at first, then platoon them, letting them fight it out all season. Outfield? Dump Rowand and give Velez a shot at CF.
CHRIST, SABEAN---WAKE UP!!! Run, do not walk, to Kevin Towers' hotel room right this minute and don't leave until you've landed (Adrian) Gonzalez!
the giants should offer cc a90 mill contract then tell him that after the next season they will raise his contract to over 100 mill

When people complain that McCovey Chronicles is elitist, sometimes I worry that they’re right. Other times, I think, "Well, good." This is one of those other times.

For years, some of us clamored for youth. We’re getting it. For years, some of us wanted Brian Sabean to be more creative with minor league free agent sluggers. The top name in the free bin, Josh Phelps, has a clear path to a bench job, if not a platoon role. So it’s time for this vocal, youth-clamoring, minor-league-free-agent wanting minority to scream our begrudged acceptance from the rooftops.

I’m okay with the team as-is. It isn’t a contender unless a ton of things break the Giants way,but it isn’t a team that ‘s going to hamper a rebuilding process, either. Maybe Travis Ishikawa and Josh Phelps combine for 30 homers, and that’s one less question for next offseason. Maybe Pablo Sandoval is an average fielder at third, and that’s one less question. I’m okay with 2009 being a let’s-find-out season before possibly jumping into the 2009-2010 free agent market with both feet.

The rosterbation was exciting for a while, but I’m done. Tapped out. Forget it. Now Frandsen, now Phelps, now Ishi and Pablo. On Affeldt, on Burriss, on Hinshaw and Romo. No more crazy trade scenarios. No more wacky free agent yearning.

Thank you for reading. I hope you’ll join me tomorrow for my "What would it take to get Dan Uggla and Ben Sheets????"-post. Because, brothers and sisters, that would be a monster team.

Poll
Are you okay with the Giants going into the season as the roster is currently constructed? (With the exception of maybe adding a free agent starting pitcher to a one- or two-year deal, that is...)
Yes
629 votes
No
285 votes

914 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 291 comments | Share on Facebook Digg!

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Read More: rosterbation, mlb hotstove, 2008-2009 mlb offseason, laughing at people with obvious learning disabilities

Comments

Display:

I still want Burrell (if we can get him for 3 years, nothing more than that) and RJ.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Dec 10, 2008 11:17 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I kinda see Burrell as made of crystal – he bends over to pick up a bunt and lands on the DL until 2 years into the Obama administration

these are my paranoid thoughts – but they are real to me.

Charlie Hayes ate my homework

by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Dec 10, 2008 11:29 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he’s played 140+ games every full year of his career but 2004. if you’re gonna worry about that, you may as well worry about that with every single player in the game

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Dec 10, 2008 11:30 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I kind of envision glenallen hill’s waterpipe as made of crystal…

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Dec 10, 2008 11:45 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and filled with Crystal.

They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long

by bgunn on Dec 10, 2008 11:52 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mmm

Fine Peruvian beer.

by cornball on Dec 10, 2008 5:34 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

agree

Justt add Burrell, let JT Snow turn him into something nearing OK at first base, sign RJ, and call it an offseason.

by tyrannoman on Dec 10, 2008 1:55 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

JT’s not a miracle worker.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 10, 2008 4:35 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

blasphemy!

J.T. Snow could make me an above average MLB first baseman

by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 10, 2008 4:39 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

JT could help him with footwork, correct positioning, situational type scenarios, but he cannot teach his instincts and unreal job he did picking BID’s.

But still, I do not think that it wwould be a big deal for Burrell to pick up the position quickly. Hell, he played HS and his years at Miami at 3rd base, so his D at 1st would not concern me. What concerns me is if Burrell is at first (or anyone else) which means that Pablo is definitely at 3rd. I know Sabean has already said this and Bochy has the confidence in him. I just dont yet.. not until after a solid spring.

I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!

by Giant among Angels on Dec 10, 2008 6:39 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

All of the verucas will clatter, but I am fine. Add another pitcher on a year year deal and call it a day.

Bottom line: first do no harm.

by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 10, 2008 11:19 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

bah...
Add another pitcher on a year year deal

Supposed to hav been “one year deal”

YEAR YEAR DEAL!

by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 10, 2008 11:23 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bottom line: first do no harm.

Got here late, but as far as I’m concerned, that sums it up.

My adopted son Matt Downs. Lost in the wilderness of mediocrity.

by nvsfg on Dec 10, 2008 5:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Meh

I want Johnson…
I want Winn traded for something (they are talking about extending him??? Why does Sabes hate Nate that much?)
Is Beltre that big of a long shot?

by lincysgiants on Dec 10, 2008 11:25 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In a perfect world

we somehow get rid of Rowand and then extend Winn….then I win the lottery.

The Giants win a game! The Giants win a game! The Giants win a game!

by jhiat00 on Dec 10, 2008 11:36 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And free red ropes?

rooooo redd rooooooo

The bases were drunk, and I painted the black with my best yakker. But blue squeezed me, and I went full. I came back with my heater, but the stick flares one the other way and the chalk flies for two bases. Three earnies! Next thing I know, skipper hooks me and I'm sipping suds with the clubby.

by Mike Hawk on Dec 10, 2008 11:54 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

is that supposed to be an imitation of the guy that sells them at warriors games?

"I didn't know (after seeing a spectacular over-the-shoulder catch) whether to shit or go blind." - Former Giants Outfielder Harvey Kuenn on Willie Mays

by stealth snail on Dec 10, 2008 1:02 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I remember him from Candlestick, I haven’t been to a Warriors game in like 10 years, so I couldn’t tell you that…good to know he’s still alive and kickin though!

The bases were drunk, and I painted the black with my best yakker. But blue squeezed me, and I went full. I came back with my heater, but the stick flares one the other way and the chalk flies for two bases. Three earnies! Next thing I know, skipper hooks me and I'm sipping suds with the clubby.

by Mike Hawk on Dec 10, 2008 1:35 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I still want a third baseman. I hate the idea of giving up on Sandoval as a catcher, which is basically what we’re doing if we put him at third this year.

by Evan on Dec 10, 2008 11:32 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nah. I think he’s our catcher in 2010, unless Posey goes nuts.

by Grant on Dec 10, 2008 11:33 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But his defense at catcher is universally ranked somewhere between horrible and work-in-progress. If he doesn’t work on it now, the team is never going to trust him to learn on the job.

If Posey does go nuts, that would retroactively make moving Pablo the right call, but that’s unlikely.

by Evan on Dec 10, 2008 11:46 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Pablo provides enough flexibility that we don’t have to worry about putting him at one position right now. I want his bat in the lineup and if he hits well enough, they can use him all over the place.

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 10, 2008 11:48 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But that’s an incredibly tough assignment for a young player. He has so much to learn about hitting major-league pitching, and he’s going to be jumping all around the diamond as well?

Pablo’s the best hitting prospect the Giants have come up with in fifteen or twenty years. They should concentrate on doing what’s best for his long-term development, not try to figure out how to squeeze the most out of him in 2009.

by Evan on Dec 10, 2008 12:00 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pablito is now considered a corner infielder. Sabean has TurboTracked Posey – possibly as soon as September 2009 and NLT 2010.

Like the idea of having Sandoval not bounce around the infield and only play one position and concentrate on this position and his hitting.

by wilriv21 on Dec 10, 2008 12:03 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would prefer to keep him at catcher, but if they’re going to put him at third (or first), this is the way to do it. Tell him to forget about catching and focus on his new position.

by Evan on Dec 10, 2008 12:17 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sounds good. But I have a feeling they would shift him back to first & pickup Joe Castle if he has a couple errors in one Spring Training game.

Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.

by ResDog on Dec 10, 2008 12:55 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I read in the Chron that’s pretty much what they’ve done. It sounds like he’s not even going to catch when Molina rests, so I don’t know what you’re bitching about, homeboy. :-)

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 10, 2008 1:39 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So it appears the Zito/Sandoval experiment is over. Interesting.

by timmeh on Dec 14, 2008 2:50 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's pretty fast

I believe the catchers who make it to the majors with less than 190 minor league games caught are few and far between. I-Rod might be the only active one.

"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002

by achiappanza on Dec 11, 2008 2:30 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Albert Pujoles was the same way. He played 3B, and LF before settling into 1B. Totally off the cuff, pull it out of my ass analysis, it seems to me Pablo wont’ care where he plays D as long as he gets to hit.

by tyrannoman on Dec 10, 2008 1:59 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

YES!

Oh man, now I need some new pants.

by cornball on Dec 10, 2008 5:49 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In A Perfect world.....

….But probably won’t happen. At least not AS good

I certainly do hope Pablo is near the numbers Albert put up his first full season:

HR RBI AVG OBP SLG OPS
37 130 .329 .403 .610 1.013

Those are freakish number for a first full season! I would be ecstatic with something like this out of Pablo in ‘09 25+ HR’s ~.300 avg.

I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!

by Giant among Angels on Dec 10, 2008 6:55 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hope to have a threesome with Anne Hathaway and Jessica Biel. That has a better chance of happening than Pablo reaching those Pujols numbers.

by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 10, 2008 7:42 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice combo!

I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!

by Giant among Angels on Dec 10, 2008 7:54 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That would be awesome. Kudos to big plans.

by cornball on Dec 10, 2008 8:21 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This

I like the idea of signing a third baseman and working the Panda into the lineup at 1st, third, and catcher… I don’t get Bochy wanting three catchers.

Maybe it’s because he was a catcher…?

by lincysgiants on Dec 10, 2008 12:02 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Flexibility to line-up

Bochy wants to carry two catchers and have Sandoval be the emergency catcher. This with the intent of giving BMoney days off and pinch-running for BMoney late in games. This way if Holm gets injured after replacing BMoney SF still has a catcher to play the game.

Bochy has said he does not expect Sandoval to even catch during ST and wants him to concentrate on 3b.

by wilriv21 on Dec 10, 2008 12:05 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He’ll if Feliz could go from 3B to emergency C, so can Pablito!

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 10, 2008 1:40 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wouldn’t consider him a “emergency” catcher. Just another option for Bochy if $hit hits the fan. Comparing Mr. Happy to him is not fair. Who was the “E” catcher last year?

I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!

by Giant among Angels on Dec 10, 2008 6:59 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was at the game (the game never ended, btw) where Feliz caught last year. Don’t remember if he’d been declared the E catcher or not.

I remember Felix Rodriguez was our E catcher for a few seasons, though I never saw him catch.

Charlie Hayes ate my homework

by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Dec 10, 2008 8:56 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I meant, who was the “E” catcher in 2008, not 2007??

I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!

by Giant among Angels on Dec 10, 2008 9:47 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

/looks at calendar

damn. that WAS quick.

maybe it was Eugenio – with his speed from the plate to the backstop, he couldn’t be stopped. ;-)

Charlie Hayes ate my homework

by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Dec 10, 2008 11:17 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Phelps?

Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.

by kennv on Dec 10, 2008 6:01 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Another possiblity

He still needs to make the team.

by wilriv21 on Dec 10, 2008 6:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Baggs..

Expects Posey to be up by the end of the year. At least the brass is ready for this possibility.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 10, 2008 8:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would say not really, but then if you take into account the fact that Sabean thinks Posey will be ready by next year…

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Dec 10, 2008 11:33 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

IAWTC

Charlie Hayes ate my homework

by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Dec 10, 2008 11:34 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no, i'm not "OK"

Benji may be a loveable dog but he is not a cleanup hitter.
as long as the giants continue to trot out that lineup bullshit, I will only attend timmy’s games.
and an occasional matt cain start to fix my dingers jones.

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Dec 10, 2008 11:39 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So you don't support the team

You only support the archetypes. Interesting.

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Dec 10, 2008 11:47 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

archetypes?

I guess you could say i’m all for the team getting junger.

best i could do with the material provided.

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Dec 10, 2008 12:43 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Best pun of the year!

The Denker bus is now bound for San Diego. Those who were passengers on it are now angrily stranded at a gas station in Modesto, CA. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Dec 10, 2008 1:04 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So, Gene...

How do you feel about that?

/puts down pipe, writes enigmatically on notepad/

Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.

by Lyle on Dec 10, 2008 1:54 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This

Makes me so happy I nagged you.

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Dec 10, 2008 8:03 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bengie is our cleanup hitter though!

comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Dec 10, 2008 12:56 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Have to agree

where is the power going to come from next year? I guess there’s no real way to solve that without spending a shedload of cash, but it makes me wary to think the only real lineup improvements over last year will be Sandoval starting from day 1, Frandsen, and Ishi/Phelps?

I agree with needing to get younger, but yeesh- that’s a lot of hoping for us to do next year.

by bondslegend on Dec 10, 2008 5:08 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But that is not all of the improvement. I agree, our OF and C positions will produce roughly the same as last year. But, by my completely off the top of my head calculations, 1b improvements (TI + Phelps) = +10 runs; 2b = + 10 runs; SS = + 20 runs; and 3b (w/out Castillo) = + 15 runs; and our bench should add a few runs.

  So last year, we scored 640 runs, with our presently constituted team I see us scoring 695 runs in ’09.

  I also, since I am deep in over the top of my head, see our SP improving (mostly Sanchez, some Cain and Zito and some regression for Lincecum) by 15 runs and our much stronger pen improving by 30 runs.

  The conclusion is we are closer to respectability, scoring 695 runs, giving up 714 runs

by allfrank on Dec 10, 2008 7:35 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You think our 2B production is going to improve by replacing 87 games Ray Durham at .293/.385/.414 with Kevin Frandsen, Emmanuel Burriss, and Euey Velez? That’s not impossible, but it is wildly optimistic of you.

by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 10, 2008 7:46 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmmm

Something makes me doubt your statistical analysis here…

by bondslegend on Dec 10, 2008 8:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd rather not extend Winn or Molina

though I’ve been happy with how they’ve performed during this time. Hopefully they keep it up in 2009

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 11:44 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I want a #1 PHELPS PHAN t-shirt.

/deer head
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Dec 10, 2008 11:44 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

(I wanted to share this, I hope no one objects. I think it’s semi-appropriate for this thread)

Isolated Power vs. On-base percentage via ZiPS 2009 Projections:

The Phelps projection made me happy.

/deer head
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Dec 10, 2008 11:46 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, and the two overlapping names in the left corner are Rohlinger and Ortmeier.

/deer head
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Dec 10, 2008 11:47 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rohlrtmeingier?

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 11:48 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ROhlinger is Funny, but I’m Laughing Mostly At Ortmeier.

by Grant on Dec 10, 2008 11:53 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice.

Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.

by Lyle on Dec 10, 2008 1:55 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Scooby Doo’s favorite ballplayer!

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 10, 2008 2:02 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ooh, slash fiction portmanteau!

by shanghaijim on Dec 10, 2008 3:58 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rohlrtmeingier

Does penicillin work on that?

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 12:25 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As an almost doctor, I say – without hesitation – probably not.

by cornball on Dec 10, 2008 7:29 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ah, Burriss

He looked so good for a moment.

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Dec 10, 2008 11:48 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What does the axis represent? League average or something?

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 10, 2008 11:49 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, league average’s for ISO and OBP.

/deer head
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Dec 10, 2008 11:50 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also, I’m doing a quick graph with the Oliver projections to compare with ZiPS. I’ll post it shortly.

/deer head
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Dec 10, 2008 11:52 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oliver Projections

These look quite a bit more optimistic, especially in the ISO department. Sorry some of the names are layered, it’s readable, but you might have to squint.

It has both Phelps and Ishikawa putting up .200+ ISO seasons next year. In 2008, the Giants only had one hitter with a better then league average ISO (Fred Lewis hit .158) Molina and Bowker hit right at league average for ISO with scores of .153

The ZiPS projection has 5 hitters over league average for ISO. Oliver has 7 hitters including the two aforementioned hitters over .200.

Burriss still kinda stinks. Most everyone gained a little OBP, too.

Here’s the differences between the two systems (Difference = Oliver – ZiPS). Positive scores mean that Oliver was more optimistic than ZiPS and a negative score means that ZiPS was more optimistic than Oliver.

In both OBP and ISO, Oliver was more optimistic. Especially in regards to ISO. Aurilia gained 45 points of ISO between the two systems — .106 in ZiPS and .151 in Oliver. Ishikawa gained the most OBP between the two systems. ZiPS had him at an OBP of .300 and Oliver had him at .322.

Both systems agreed exactly on Rowand and were very close with Sandoval. Oliver also gave Rohlinger a pretty big boost. I know Oliver includes minor league data, but I’m not sure how it weights it.

/deer head
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Dec 10, 2008 1:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What's the R-squared?

/kicks computer

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?

by zenbitz on Dec 10, 2008 2:02 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

help computer

The Denker bus is now bound for San Diego. Those who were passengers on it are now angrily stranded at a gas station in Modesto, CA. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Dec 10, 2008 2:03 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

stop downloading so much

by chilibean_3 on Dec 10, 2008 2:05 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can run an R tomorrow, I left the spreadsheet at work.

/deer head
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Dec 10, 2008 2:27 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

between ISO and OBP?

The Denker bus is now bound for San Diego. Those who were passengers on it are now angrily stranded at a gas station in Modesto, CA. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Dec 10, 2008 2:39 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

THE DIFFERENCE

is probably due to Zips park adjusting and Oliver not.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?

by zenbitz on Dec 10, 2008 2:05 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good point, but I wonder how ZiPS is park factoring AT&T? It’s played Neutral over the last couple of years and Oliver treats every park as neutral, it might be closer than we think.

/deer head
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Dec 10, 2008 2:26 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

actually

it could be something even sillier like league base line SLG/OBP. Net 19 points of slugging is huge. When you do all these projections, you have to assume a league average OBP/SLG (really bb/pa, 1b/pa, 2b/pa, etc. ,etc.)

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?

by zenbitz on Dec 10, 2008 2:39 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, I honestly have no idea how each is setting up their base lines. I’ll try and do some reading later to find out.

/deer head
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Dec 10, 2008 2:41 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What this graph needs is lots more white space on the left and at the bottom. Things will look much better that way.

by Evan on Dec 10, 2008 7:58 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

On the left, or do you mean on the right?

/deer head
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Dec 10, 2008 8:04 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

probably

Axis?
Like this:

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 11:51 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oooh. Cox and Forkum. They’re like Bloom County for tongue-chewers.

by Grant on Dec 10, 2008 11:56 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey! No politics!

by Grant on Dec 10, 2008 12:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

plus, Iran doesn’t even look like that anymore

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Dec 10, 2008 12:12 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They all look like Tyson.

by Grant on Dec 10, 2008 12:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mmm… chicken nuggets…

comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Dec 10, 2008 12:57 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey! No politics!

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 10, 2008 8:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

plus, Iran doesn’t even look like that anymore

Speed, defense... and an almost fanatical devotion to getting picked off.

by SF Pete on Dec 11, 2008 10:05 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They all look like Tyson.

by bondslegend on Dec 11, 2008 12:57 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mmm… chicken nuggets…

comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Dec 14, 2008 12:53 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like Phelps, I hope that (if we don’t sign a Burrell or a Dunn or what have you), he gets significant PT

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Dec 10, 2008 11:50 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

unfortunately

of the power dudes (ishi, bowker, pablo, nate and Josh) only one is likely to see substantial playing time.
just you wait and see. richie will see tons of starts at 3rd and 1st.
prove me wrong, boch.

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Dec 10, 2008 11:51 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’ll start to worry about Richie when he is actually on the roster.

by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 10, 2008 11:52 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Richie?

He’s not on the team

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 11:52 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

or is he?

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Dec 10, 2008 11:56 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe he is?

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 11:59 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 12:04 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

?!?!?!?!?!?!

ohNO

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Dec 10, 2008 12:32 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That was my halloween costume 2 years ago

"I didn't know (after seeing a spectacular over-the-shoulder catch) whether to shit or go blind." - Former Giants Outfielder Harvey Kuenn on Willie Mays

by stealth snail on Dec 10, 2008 6:19 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I saw that over there and began wondering if i should convert to a Phelps Phan after El Ochoa moves along.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 12:21 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow..

Best hitter on the team, a flier pickup. That tells you something.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 10, 2008 8:18 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Looking back . . .

I’m glad CC didn’t come. I would’ve loved to have him but it really wouldn’t have made sense with the way our payroll is right now.

All I want now is RJ and I’m happy. I wouldn’t get upset about Burrell but I could take him or leave him.

by fwoty oz on Dec 10, 2008 11:50 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

people complain that McCovey Chronicles is elitist

I find this hard to believe.

Still in despair.
BRING BACK MARMOL!
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」

by Zetsuboushita on Dec 10, 2008 11:58 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

elitist?

like Joe the Plumber?

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 11:59 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

109

My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.

by Kitspool on Dec 10, 2008 12:05 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is it because we hate Rush? Or do we like it?

comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Dec 10, 2008 12:59 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

prog rock is still rock, man

by cornball on Dec 10, 2008 8:23 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Probably because we like it.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 10, 2008 8:24 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Go away.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 10, 2008 8:24 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

“When people complain that McCovey Chronicles is elitist, sometimes I worry that they’re right. Other times, I think, "Well, good.”"

I always think, “Well, good.” You know who gave elitism such a bad name? The unqualified. Sure, there’s the bad kind — when qualified candidates are kept from open competition because of discrimination — but mostly elitism is how the best succeed and the worst don’t. Elitism is what kept Neifi Perez from winning an MVP. It’s what keeps me from playing CF for the Giants. It’s what keeps TakeAGiantStepNGo from running this site. To paraphrase the great Gordon Gekko, “Elitism is good. Elitism works.”

Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Dec 10, 2008 12:00 PM PST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

I think the connotation of “elitism” nowadays is different from it originally meant (as in “excellence”; I think anyway). There seems to be a stigma of pretentiousness (?) with the former.

BTW, you’re not playing CF for the Giants because you’re not old enough, right? or maybe you lack gamermanshipness?

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 12:03 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

“I think the connotation of "elitism" nowadays is different from it originally meant (as in "excellence"; I think anyway). There seems to be a stigma of pretentiousness (?) with the former.”

Totally. I think originally it was about the rich/white/upper class keeping the poor/not white/lower class down. But on a website that is literally open to anyone joining, how can valuing the intelligent, informed analysis over the ignorant, uninformed analysis possibly be a bad thing?

Yes, maybe those less informed will feel a bit intimidated, but when it comes to stats: xanthan=elite, me=not. So do I run and hide? No, I read and learn so maybe someday I can be in that elite as well (though unless I exchange my heart for a motherboard, I doubt that will ever happen.)

Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Dec 10, 2008 12:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Then your brain will be in your chest. hehehe

Still in despair.
BRING BACK MARMOL!
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」

by Zetsuboushita on Dec 10, 2008 12:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just like Pamela Anderson!

by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 10, 2008 12:17 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nice. big. round. BRAINZ.

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Dec 10, 2008 12:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why I am on this site:
Yes, maybe those less informed will feel a bit intimidated, but when it comes to stats: xanthan=elite, me=not. So do I run and hide? No, I read and learn so maybe someday I can be in that elite as well

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. Rogers Hornsby

by igotnothing on Dec 10, 2008 12:24 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So, you really do “got nothing”?? Hard to believe.

Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.

by Lyle on Dec 10, 2008 2:00 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To me , stats are like Spanish conversation.

A child raised since birth in a Spanish speaking household will amass a vocabulary of thousands of words in the first years of its life.
  I’ve been working around Spanish speaking folk for the better part of thirty years and just like statistical analysis it bounces right off (or passes right through) my head.

Thanking the elite for their tolerance.

Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers

by victor frankenstein on Dec 11, 2008 11:10 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good analogy

I understand spanish, but do not speak it well.

I understand statz, but could not plot them out or figure them like mr robot xanathan

by bondslegend on Dec 11, 2008 12:58 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To elaborate, I mean baseball in general. Not just stats.

I was introduced to the game only 5 seasons ago. After a couple of years I had completely drained all my IRL friends of their baseball knowledge and wanted more… I found McC and was just floored by the Baron. (and the rest of you dorks are kinda funny too)

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. Rogers Hornsby

by igotnothing on Dec 11, 2008 1:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

<insert favorite " dork " joke here> ?

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 12, 2008 9:12 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What’s all this “reading’ and "learning” stuff you’re babbling about?

Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.

by EliminateMe on Dec 10, 2008 12:29 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

especially from a computer… sheesh

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 12:36 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mostly agreed on the current connotation. Though I might use the words " in bred".

/ shrugs

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 12:31 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you’re not sure about the spelling of pretentiousness you REALLY shouldn’t be posting here.

by paboperfecto on Dec 10, 2008 3:12 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pretension

The downside of being better than everyone else is that people tend to assume you’re pretentious.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Dec 10, 2008 1:45 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pretentious?

Moi?

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 10, 2008 8:26 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pretension

What you feel just before you tense up.

Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers

by victor frankenstein on Dec 11, 2008 11:12 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For some reason I read this:

No Dunn running around left field with pants full of granite.

as “No Dunn running around left field with pants full of giraffe.”

Which is kind of a weird image, even by Grant’s standards.

Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.

by EliminateMe on Dec 10, 2008 12:03 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That’s a pretty sweet turn of phrase, though. I think it works better.q

by Grant on Dec 10, 2008 12:05 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

(the q was an accident)

by Grant on Dec 10, 2008 12:05 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The extra “B” is for “BYOBB”.

Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.

by EliminateMe on Dec 10, 2008 12:26 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess I’m fine with the lineup for now, but ask me again in May, after Matt Cain is 0-4 with a 1.26 ERA, and I might feel differently.

Also, I’d prefer Bochy not announce the 2009 batting order in December, 2008. That’s just depressing.

My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.

by Kitspool on Dec 10, 2008 12:07 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We will win the division next year with the current roster + RJ

There, I said it.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Dec 10, 2008 12:27 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

please be right

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 1:03 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Please

Just don’t let Molina bat cleanup. Anything else I am fine with. I just cannot go another year of having a career OPS+ 88 hitter batting cleanup. And I don’t even want to get into watching him run.. that also bothers more than it probably should.

by mxmob33 on Dec 10, 2008 12:28 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

IAWTC

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. Rogers Hornsby

by igotnothing on Dec 10, 2008 12:30 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A Better solution

Winn
Renteria
Lewis
Pablo
Ishi/Phelps
Rowand
Molina
Burriss/Frandsen
Pitcher

Or, one could switch Burriss/Frandsen with the Pitcher’s slot, though the net gain there would probably be only a few runs during the season.

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 12:38 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dunno about Pablo hitting 4th.

He’s only had 145 AB in the majors.

The Giants win a game! The Giants win a game! The Giants win a game!

by jhiat00 on Dec 10, 2008 12:40 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

switch Pablo with Ishi/Phelps?

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 12:41 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmmm

With this lineup I don’t think there is much choice. I think you HAVE to put Molina at cleanup. The REAL problem is that we don’t have an actual cleanup hitter.

The Giants win a game! The Giants win a game! The Giants win a game!

by jhiat00 on Dec 10, 2008 12:43 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So you HAVE to put the most unqualified power hitter on the team there. As TMQ says (about football and punting), you don’t have to do anything. You SHOULD do what makes sense. And batting Bengie clean-up – instead of 6th – does not make sense. Ishi/Phelps or Pablo please.

by cornball on Dec 10, 2008 8:28 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

why does the number of ABs matter? Isn’t it the same for any place in the batting order? Lots of pressure on the three-hole hitter.

by wilriv21 on Dec 10, 2008 12:43 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree about the pressure on the 3 hole.

(ha ha pressure on the 3 hole) but I don’t think Pablo should be there either. Maybe 5th or 6th.

The Giants win a game! The Giants win a game! The Giants win a game!

by jhiat00 on Dec 10, 2008 12:45 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Thing I Find Most Wrong About The Proposed Lineup

Is not Molina hitting 4th it is Lewis’ speed wasted hitting after both Sandoval and Molina. I would be fine with Lewis 3rd with Molina and Sandoval in any otder 4th and 5th. No Molina is not an ideal middle of the order hitter but his clutchness (which I believe is real) does make him functional in these spots.

I do agree with Winn and Renteria hitting 1 and 2, and with Rowand, Ishikawa, and whoever plays 2B hitting 6, 7, and 8.

by giantsrainman on Dec 10, 2008 12:56 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So we agree on this?

Winn
Renteria
Lewis
Molina
Sandoval
Rowand
Ishikawa
2B
Pitcher

The Giants win a game! The Giants win a game! The Giants win a game!

by jhiat00 on Dec 10, 2008 1:00 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm of the belief

That the best hitter should hit 4th.
Trouble is this: who is our best hitter? (please don’t say Molina)

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 1:02 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

From the small sample size I would have to go with Sandoval

but I just wouldn’t throw him into the cleanup spot right away.

The Giants win a game! The Giants win a game! The Giants win a game!

by jhiat00 on Dec 10, 2008 1:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m a best hitter should bat 3rd guy myself. The one caveat being if your best hitter is of the all universe type. The Caveat obviously does not apply to us this year.

Look at this Lewis had the best ISO & OBPcombonation last season thus is incumbent for best hitter imho.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 1:10 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Same here

Best hitter bats third in my book also. McCovey hit cleanup, Mays hit third. They were both great, but there is a difference. So, for next year, the corresponding hitters would be…….uh……….

Never mind.

Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.

by Lyle on Dec 10, 2008 2:04 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am a “best hitter” hits third kind of guy myself, and power, low average guy hitting fourth. That would work except the Giants don’t really have a power guy. Maybe Phelps hitting 4 ?

My adopted son Matt Downs. Lost in the wilderness of mediocrity.

by nvsfg on Dec 10, 2008 5:21 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

By a couple months into the season the team will have chance to see if the projections are near accurate. If so then we might be seeing Ishi,Phelps and Pablo doing some time in the 4 & 5 spot due to their I.S.O. The projection above was a lot kinder to Nate then I expected so he might fit into the mix as well.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 11, 2008 9:32 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

By a couple months into the season the team will have chance to see if the projections are near accurate.

I agree Dave, and I think that’s the most frustrating part. We just don’t know, and that is why many of us were hoping Sabean would secure at some sort of serious bat this winter.

I not really sold on Ishi hitting four. He did show some power at Dodd, but the Phone Booth is notorious for hurting lefty’s. I see Pablo more as five or six hitter providing he keeps hitting anything, anywhere. Dude has to learn to take pitch now and then. Phelps could be the guy. Fair hitter for average, decent career OBP, SLG, and an OPS+ of 110. Could be a very good “value” pickup from this winter.

I am kind of “meh” on the moves so far this . Nothing exceptional, but again nothing really scary either. Like Lars posted earlier “Bottom Line: First do no harm”.

So unless there is a surprise this week, it’s just time to wait.

My adopted son Matt Downs. Lost in the wilderness of mediocrity.

by nvsfg on Dec 11, 2008 3:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yup were are in the middle of a 3-4 year wait.

I resigned myself last winter ( by looking at the free agent lists) the Giants were not likely to get a big bat tell 2010 at the earliest. The only other way is whale hunting ( to steal a real estate term) and one does not get to set a clock for when a whale will be around to hunt.

Thus I am happy with this off winter. They have not blocked any one. Marginal veteran contracts let over from the Bond’s era are being allowed to work off the books and not be replaced. Veteran’s that are signed are for a specific task and short length. To me it’s not just " first do no harm" but they are also gaining slack in the rope to untie the noose they were some busy tyeing and tightening from ’03-07.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 12, 2008 9:24 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To me it’s not just " first do no harm" but they are also gaining slack in the rope to untie the noose they were some busy tyeing and tightening from ’03-07.

Nice imagery in that quote. Not one that I really wanted to associate with the Giants though :-)

The only other way is whale hunting ( to steal a real estate term)

In Nevada, “whales” mean an entirely different thing. Whales are the major gamblers that the casinos will fly in on their own dime to ramp up gambling takes in a particular month.

I have a friend that works for one of the larger casinos. The job title is VIP Concierge. He calls it babysitting. He works four days a week from 4 PM to 4 AM. His entire job is to insure that these people are taken care of . Anything (legal) that these people want from show tickets, dinner reservations, shopping, etc. Salary is good, but he tells me the tips are what keep him there. When these people win or break even, he’ll take home a grand or more in tips each week.

My adopted sons Matt Downs and Ben Copeland . Still not ramked in the McC prospect list.

by nvsfg on Dec 12, 2008 12:32 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I believe the best hitter should be hitting 3rd, however I do think Lewis in the three hole makes more sense than having him hit behind Molina. That will turn triples for Fred into singles.

by tyrannoman on Dec 10, 2008 2:05 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lack of speed a side why would one plan on Molinia in 3rd hole instead of Lewis?

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 2:18 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don’t subscribe to the notion of “the best hitter hits (insert number here)”. I think that you put fast players and high OBP players in front of players with high AVG and SLG. That’s the only criteria that should be taken into account when constructing a lineup. Theoretically, you could have four fast/OBP guys at the top, and lump anyone with some pop together at the bottom. You just need to have runners on when your run-producers come up.

"Just another ahahahaha... laugher."

by capnk on Dec 10, 2008 5:59 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To some extent I think we are calling the same rose by its name in 2 different languages. A higher OBP guy with some speed and is a not a slap hitter should get end up with high SLG because he can gain an extra 90 feet on a ball in play more often then a guy that less speed and the same OBP.

 I think were are differing is you would rather put the swing from his heels out house or penthouse guy 5th then 4th. If we had 4 high OBP hitterswith better then average speed I would be hard pressed to logically disagree with now. UN Lucky for me we don’t have 4 such hitters

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 11, 2008 9:43 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Take best two hitters..

Put highest OBP first, ISO second. If they are the same, weigh it.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 10, 2008 8:30 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

/approaches hornet's nest with stick

 ‘Splain who the Giants’ best hitter. is , and why.

Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers

by victor frankenstein on Dec 11, 2008 11:19 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry , I should a read a head

Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers

by victor frankenstein on Dec 11, 2008 11:22 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who do you think your fooling?

More like whacking a stick against a bag holding a hornets nest just before tossing it into the room.

Please carry on the good work!

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For once...

We are in complete agreement.

Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK

by Josh from Hollywood on Dec 10, 2008 1:01 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I thought this much agreement here was prevented by the laws of physics. What happens now?

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 1:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I must have missed something in 7th Grade..

What’s the 3 hole?

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 10, 2008 8:28 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmm

I ran a simulation using David Pinto’s Lineup Analysis Tool and ZiPS projections (including Renteria). The IshiPhelps and MannyB/KFrand numbers are just my guesstimates on how their overall platoon/combo/tandem production would be, as are the projected pitcher’s OBA and SLG.

There is some issue on how good this tool is though.

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 12:53 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I also find it unlikely that Rowand will put up a .346 OBP, but who knows….

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 12:59 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he's 31 next year

and his career OBP is .342. .346 is hardly a stretch.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?

by zenbitz on Dec 10, 2008 2:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True

Though his Marcels show him as a .340 OBP guy. And that’s factoring in his fluke year.

Then again, he did play hurt for part of the season in ’08, so maybe better health will lead to better performance? Right? (please Aaron, give us another fluke ’07 so that Sabes can unload you next offseason)

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 2:11 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but Marcel

only goes back 3 years. If you go back 5 you get another “fluke” year.

It’s silly anyway. The YTY variance on his OBP must be about 40 points, so whether his ‘true 2009 talent’ is .340 or .346 he will probably hit between .320 and .360.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?

by zenbitz on Dec 10, 2008 2:16 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes...This...+1...IAWTC...109...Can you send me your brochure

For me, going into the season with Molina batting cleanup is akin to going into the season with Pedro Feliz the starting catcher.

Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??

by tobias on Dec 11, 2008 11:31 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kicking the can

Not being in the playoffs since 2003 eventually the Giants are gong to have to show some improvement. Thought 2008 was the season to evaluate and push the kids. Now we are saying 2009 is the year to evaluate and push the kids. Would be OK with the plan if we knew that the kids would eventually arrive as advertised..

The attrition of minor league players is extremely high. Many of the Giants top prospects are in low minors. Many of these kids may never arrive. The kids that will arrive may not deliver as advertised. Sabean should consider using the farm in trades. Keep the plums. Trade the bums.. Only a few should be considered untouchable however in the right deal could be dealt to improve the Giants. That is what the farm is for. Improving the big club.

SF needs a middle of the order bat. If cannot find a corner infielder then look for OFer. SF OFers can be replaced. Another starting pitcher is necessary at this moment.

Not saying forfeit the future rather build for the future and compete in 2009.

by wilriv21 on Dec 10, 2008 12:31 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wil

Would be more okay with the plan if we actually implemented the plan. Looking at vet-loving Bochy as the problem. Hoping Neukom mandates different course. Hoping Sabean goes along. Wishing you’d type in sentences. Not holding my breath.

Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.

by Lyle on Dec 10, 2008 2:09 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am ok with this offseason, although I am missing the annual Sabean signing of an unnecessary center fielder.

by out machine on Dec 10, 2008 12:47 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm kinda meh with the lineup

It’s just kinda depressing that Bengie is still penciled in at cIeanup. My lineup would have Flew, Pablo and Bengie hitting 3, 4, 5.

I’m also mad we haven’t dumped #15 yet either.

"I didn't know (after seeing a spectacular over-the-shoulder catch) whether to shit or go blind." - Former Giants Outfielder Harvey Kuenn on Willie Mays

by stealth snail on Dec 10, 2008 1:13 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree completely with this:
  “I’m okay with the team as-is. It isn’t a contender unless a ton of things break the Giants way,but it isn’t a team that ‘s going to hamper a rebuilding process, either. Maybe Travis Ishikawa and Josh Phelps combine for 30 homers, and that’s one less question for next offseason. Maybe Pablo Sandoval is an average fielder at third, and that’s one less question. I’m okay with 2009 being a let’s-find-out season before possibly jumping into the 2009-2010 free agent market with both feet.”

  I am thrilled and relieved no major mistakes were made. I would have loved to have gotten CC, but that was, really, a pipe dream. I do like the balance of having some established performance (Molina, Renteria, Rowand, Winn), some pretty likely MLB performance (Lewis, Sandoval) and some players who have given strong indications of being able to play at MLB average levels (TI, the 2b triumverate).

  I think the team is much better than at the start of last year (the pen and all 4 IF spots) and could reasonably compete for the division. I think we are competitive with SD, Colo, and Az unless Az makes more moves than expected. LA is a wild card. If they continue their decade and a half incompetence (eg, not signing Manny for 4 yrs, $90/100 mil, letting Lowe AND Penny go), we are a legit contender. If we sign RJ, we are even more of a contender. And we are poised to get significant playing time for: Sando, TI, Shierholtz, Burriss, Frandsen. Our pen is much stronger. We no longer are relying on Hennessey, Correia, Chulk; we can take a look at some very promising pitchers from the minor leagues. I think there is much more to look forward to for ’09 than there was for ’08.

by allfrank on Dec 10, 2008 1:16 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would be resigned

to accept that 2009 woudl be at best a 3rd place finish, and I would be “ok” with the team. In fact, despite how much we lost I really enjoyed watching The Giants last year. It was sort of like “well they are supposed to lose, so lets see how the do it.” In most cases the loses were easy to understand and the wins were fun.

But, I still think that signing Randy Johnson and getting 1 more bat would make us a contender in the division with out having to block or sacrifice our young position players. In fact, 2nd base may be the option because no one seems truely that confident in Veldez/Burress/Fransden. If we can add a infield bat and sign RJ we have a legitimate chance at winning what is looking to be a very weak division.

by uber on Dec 10, 2008 1:23 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

one more fairly unrelastic scenario I am hoping for

ok, follow me on this, it’s a bit of a journey: the Red Sox sign Mark Teixeria and do not re-sign Jason Varitek (he signs with the Nationals since they seem to a major hard on for over-paying somebody).

We then trade Molina and a non Wilson/Romo bullpen guy (or if the Red Sox prefer a non MadBum/Alderson pitching prospect) for Lars Anderson and Mike Lowell. Molina fills a need for them, and the pitcher is useful. Anderson is rendered more tradable by the fact that they made a huge commitment for Tex to be their 1B for the next 100 years and they are rumored to be close to doing the same to Youkilis. We do them a favor by eating all of Mike Lowell’s salary.

by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 10, 2008 1:25 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shiny! Shiny!!

I’m not holding my breathe but thank you for sharring.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 1:33 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Confused

 I am not sure what woudl constitute over-pay for a guy who went .312/.390/.569 with 29HR and 115RBIs and was paid 3M last year. What would constitute overpaying for those numbers, and a gold glove at 1st? Genuinely curious.

by uber on Dec 10, 2008 1:35 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what woudl constitute over-pay for a guy who went .312/.390/.569 with 29HR and 115RBIs

Jason Varitek didn’t do any of those things

by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 10, 2008 1:45 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

youkilis did

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 10, 2008 2:37 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wouldn’t the Red Sox probably be able to get a better player than Molina if they decided to put Anderson up for auction?

though I guess they get rid of Lowell in this deal, but still..

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Dec 10, 2008 1:36 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

they could probably get more, but getting rid of Lowell without having to pay him at all would be a big win for them. I would be willing to sweeten the offer a bit if that is what it required.

by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 10, 2008 1:46 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

honestly probably wouldn’t need to sweeten that, or not much anyway. Bengie fills a big hole for them, and they drop a lot of salary from lowell (who may never recover from surgery), AND it allows them to shift youkilis back to 3rd. Would be a huge win for them, and we’re one of the few clubs that could absorb all of lowell’s contract. There’s been talk of shifting Lars Anderson to left, but if they resign Bay and keep their outfield the way it is, there’ll be no room for him

Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.

by theghostofjasonellison on Dec 10, 2008 2:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anderson is good enough that they can do a lot of things with him (David Ortiz ain’t exactly a great bet for long term health) so they wouldn’t look at him as somebody they needed to trade, but I do think he might be available if they can trade him to fill needs.

by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 10, 2008 2:21 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It sounds nice, but I don’t think the Sox are interested in giving up one aging catcher in exchange for another. And per this insider, they probably are looking more at trading one of their pitchers or young prospects for another team’s catching prospect.

My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.

by Kitspool on Dec 10, 2008 1:36 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well he did say " fairly unrealistic".

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 1:55 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ladies and Gentlemen...

This is my 10,000th post.

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 10, 2008 1:42 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Congrats. Where’s our prize?

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 1:44 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have over 11,000 I think.

/shame

/deer head
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Dec 10, 2008 1:44 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That’s actually low for a spambot, isn’t it?

Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.

by Lyle on Dec 10, 2008 2:12 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

9,900 of them are either penis jokes or “That’s what she said!”

My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.

by Kitspool on Dec 10, 2008 1:48 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but hey, great job on the other 100

by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 10, 2008 1:51 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually..

Those other 100 kinda sucked.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 10, 2008 8:34 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What is this “penis joke” to which you refer?

Adopted Giant: Aaron King

Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat

by baetown415 on Dec 10, 2008 1:52 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he’s a 3B in the Mets organization, good bat but a shaky glove

by FluLikeSymptoms on Dec 10, 2008 1:54 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think this is where I say something like, “Look in Kitspool’s pants for a penis joke.”

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 10, 2008 1:55 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At least you finally left me alone.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 10, 2008 8:34 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

9,900 of them are either penis jokes or "That’s what she said!"

Quality & quantity! A sure H.O.Fer!

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 2:00 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

First ballot!

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 10, 2008 2:02 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOOK HIM IN THE EYE AND MAKE A PENIS JOKE!

by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 10, 2008 2:21 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wood but it’s dragging.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 2:23 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmm
When people complain that McCovey Chronicles is elitist, sometimes I worry that they’re right. Other times, I think, “Well, good.” This is one of those other times.

Ahh irony

by bondslegend on Dec 10, 2008 5:28 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can you change that to “Look him in the eyes”? I want to make sure where all clear about where he’s supposed to be looking.

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 10, 2008 2:43 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is my 9,012th post!

I’m so excited!

GROUGTHINK ALERT

by groug on Dec 10, 2008 2:07 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just can’t hide it.

comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Dec 10, 2008 2:55 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WEAK!

/quickly checks to make sure I have more. Does.

Yeah. Weak.

Bonds stands alone.

Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal

by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 10, 2008 4:40 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

13,500+

That’s right ladies. I have a bigger one.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 10, 2008 8:34 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it’s over 20,000!

but at least half of those are just comments saying “Rush sucks”

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Dec 10, 2008 8:40 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Some things can’t be said too often.

Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.

by EliminateMe on Dec 10, 2008 11:53 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thursday , Dec. 11

Your homepage lists the count as 9985.
I think you’re fluffering your numbers.

Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers

by victor frankenstein on Dec 11, 2008 11:30 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

OoOo

There is a fluff job going on here?

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 11, 2008 12:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't worry..

I’ll continue deleting them.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Dec 11, 2008 1:37 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If we're going to let the kids play

Then I’d be happier if we traded Randy Winn & let Nate get the majority of the starts in right. The risk of Randy accepting arbitration next year negates any possible draft pick compensation (right?).

Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.

by ResDog on Dec 10, 2008 1:43 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

depends...

If the Giant’s were to use the Goofus 4 O.F. Rotation ( Winn fills in Nate, Lewis & Rowand starts) and by August is proves Nate is another Linden then a Winn extension is not that bad a fate. All I see above "A" ball is Copeland & Horitwitz.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 2:06 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I forgot Bowker. But any ways you see my point.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 2:08 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow!

I made that point months ago and someone actually remembers it?

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Dec 10, 2008 2:14 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hope i didn’t destroy your carefully crafted image.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Dec 10, 2008 2:26 PM PST to parent up