The San Francisco Giants and Rumor-Monging
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 1, 2008 12:55 PM PST
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PrintPlayer A’s career stats as a starter:
4.78 ERA
6.03 K/9
1.22 HR/9
3.87 BB/9
Worst full-season ERA for Player A: 6.05 (2008)
Player B’s career stats as a starter:
4.47 ERA
5.26 K/9
3.48 BB/9
1.12 HR/9
Worst full-season ERA for Player B: 6.02 (2006)
The lower walk rate and lower home runs allowed rate might tip the scales in favor of B. Park effects aren’t included in this, and those would probably tip the scales a little bit further in B’s direction. Still, pretty even, right? There’s one more piece of information, though:
2009 Salary:
- Player A – Looking for an invitation to spring training; was due for arbitration (2008 salary: $1.08M)
- Player B - $9.88M
Woof. Player A is Kevin Correia, and Player B is Jason Marquis, with whom the Giants were linked in a recent Ken Rosenthal column. It was a vague mention of casual interest rather than a hot, hot, hot tip, but as far as rumors go, it makes sense.
This isn’t to suggest that the Giants were foolish to let Correia go – Correia’s peak will always be that of a back-of-the-rotation guy. There is some evidence that Correia was unlucky last year, but while that 6.05 ERA probably doesn’t reflect Correia’s true ability, it would be optimistic to expect anything below, say, a 5.00 ERA.
And this isn’t to suggest that Correia is interchangeable with Marquis. Not exactly. Other than 2006, Marquis has been a reliably average starter. He’s pitched close to 200 innings for the past five years. If I had to choose just one for a rotation spot, all things being equal, I’d choose Marquis. All things are not equal, though. Marquis is overpaid. Correia, if he returned to the pitcher he was before last season, would be a relative bargain. The risk of counting on Correia to rebound is worth the extra $6M, I would think.
If the Cubs throw in some salary, and the Giants don’t give up anything more than a Darren Ford-type player, I wouldn’t mind a deal for Marquis. I’ll just wonder why they didn’t try Kevin Correia one last time. Because when I wrote that the Giants should sign a free-agent starter, I was hoping for someone who would only cost money. Marquis fits the profile of what I was looking for – an innings eater with about a 1% chance of going Kyle Loshe on the world – but I’m terrified that Brian Sabean looks at Marquis’s Baseball-Reference page, and sees something like this:
Because if anything of value is needed to trade for Jason Marquis, the Giants should stay away. For a non-prospect? He’s a piece of advent-calendar chocolate. Slightly chalky, probably around since 2000, but not the worst thing in the world. For an actual, honest-to-goodness, potential piece of the future? Marquis is a piece of black licorice covered in fire ants at the bottom of a latrine.
Thus concludes today’s Overreaction to Stray Rumor Theatre. We would like to thank our sponsor – Mutual of Omaha – and we would also like to thank readers like you.
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Marlin Perkins is turning over in his grave
Or more accurately, Marlin is having his man-servant Jim turn over in Marlin’s grave while he narrates.
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 1, 2008 1:02 PM PST reply actions
The other side-kick, Stan Brock is a total studly stud. He’s the guy who used to wrestle alligators and now runs a non-profit mobile healthcare clinic for poor people. Dude is a real life hero.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Sad to say, but Brian Sabean doesn’t know what baseball-reference is.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
does “a computer”= Xanthan or will any computer do?
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Dec 1, 2008 8:17 PM PST up reply actions
Thank you for validating my opinion of black licorice. Worst. Candy. Ever.
Anagram of "Giants pitcher Tim Lincecum" = TENSE, CLIMACTIC, TRIUMPHING
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Dec 1, 2008 1:12 PM PST reply actions
I also agree, the worst is when someone eats it and then they start talking to you with their black licorice laden breath.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
black licorice tastes like the black plague
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 1, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions
So Dodger fans carry it in their pockets?
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 1, 2008 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
From Wiki:
Liquorice is also a mild laxative, and has several varied uses in herbal medicine.
Uh.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
So you can smoke it too?
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 1, 2008 1:48 PM PST up reply actions
Oh… word?
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 1, 2008 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
I love lamp.
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 1, 2008 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
You people are all off your collective rockers...
Black licorice is one of the finest of the candy flavors! I love it in just about all of its incarnations. To whit:
- Black licorice twists
- Good & Plenty
- Liquorice Altoids
- black licorice Necco Wafers (another unpopular candy that I like)
- Black Jack gum (OK, this one’s a stretch, even for me)
- black jelly beans; As a service, if you send me your assorted jelly beans, I will pick out all the black licorice jelly beans for you; for free (plus shipping + handling)!
Other unpopular candies I love:
- Almond Joy (regular, not the weird fruity ones like Passion Fruit or Pina Colada; those are truly awful)
- Necco Wafers
- Clove Life Savers (RIP—I haven’t seen these since the 60’s)
By the way, the worst. candy. ever. is the “Big Hunk”
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
Do you mean...
I think I vaguely remember the little tiny square version. Don’t recall the lozenges.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
Black licorice tastes like annus.
(shut up about the spelling! Doing it phonetically is the only way to get the joke across!)
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 1, 2008 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Spelling is wrong there.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
It’s spelled anise.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
:(
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 1, 2008 6:42 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not a fan of black licorice, but I’d argue that circus peanuts are worse. I’m pretty sure they’re just slightly softened foam rubber.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
OT, but this made me laugh on Rotoworld.
Sources told FOX 26 Sports that the Astros have agreed to terms with Mike Hampton, pending a physical.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
Should be more like:
Sources told FOX 26 Sports that the Astros have agreed to terms with Mike Hampton, pending a physical.*
*Hampton probably won’t pass the physical, so this is all a moot point.
Mike Hampton's Physical
Doctor: Mike Hampton, can you open this can of Pringles?
Hampton: /rips arm off
/deer head
Bay City Ball
mike hampton is like jeff conaway
except conaway has better posture
im adopting "insert 37th pick's name here"
by Headhunter Rollins on Dec 1, 2008 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
this comment made my night
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Dec 1, 2008 8:19 PM PST up reply actions
talkin' to Cubs fans
on this very matter. I joined over at Bleed Cubbie Blue, since they were already talking about a Marquis deal to the Giants, and I wanted to float the Cedeno/Marquis for Winn idea. Lots of interesting feedback.
You’re going on the assumption that Sabes isn’t busy creating ripples on his iPhone’s Koi Pond.
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
He is busy creating nipples on his iPhone!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 1, 2008 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 1, 2008 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
the only app he knows how to use…
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Dec 1, 2008 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
I miss Red Vines…none out here….first thing I do is going to be some Red Vines when I get back home.
Well not first thing but I will.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Nope.
Everyone says, “Twizzlers!” And I’m like, “NO!”
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
I’ve also seen green apple licorice.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
The title of the main page on redvines.com
“Red Vines- THE premium quality licorice – Home”
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
hmm…and all this time i thought licorice was a specific flavor, but i guess a company can call its product whatever the heck it wants. i suppose it’d be a bit like having a honey-flavored candy called “lemon goo” or “cheddar.” god i love this country.
Guess you feel pretty stupid now. Happens to the best of us…and howie, too.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Actually, I never feel stupid now. I always feel stupid later.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 1, 2008 6:44 PM PST up reply actions
For the record, I still like Kevin “Got no love, no love you’d” Correia.
Three reasons:
- He’s a decent pitcher
- Kinda looks like Goofus Jr
- Might be the best nickname I’ve come up with
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I just got that nickname.
Nice Work!
You probably know it as MYANMAR, but it will always be BURMA to me!
Best nickname..
and still no one gets it. But alas, not everyone has their Busty Poser.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
It could be worse: I thought I was the one who dubbed Fred Lewis Paul Bunion/Bunyan, but then it turned out that both rotorueter and I had started calling him that independently, and he was first. The bastard.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
damn you walrus man!
I have a monopoly on Kevin “I haven’t had a working weapon since” Correia ungettable nicknames.
Besides, yours is pretty obvious in a hair metal sort of way.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
“Running With No Huevos” has to be my least favorite Roth-era VH song.
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 1, 2008 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
Marquis for a good prospect wouldn't be black licorice..
Although a great analogy I would go with something like a 3 musketeers bar with a razor blade in it.
earl weaver?
i thought i recognized that font
im adopting "insert 37th pick's name here"
by Headhunter Rollins on Dec 1, 2008 2:29 PM PST reply actions
Oh baby, you....
Jason Marquis for $10M? No thanks.
Biz Markie for $10M? Can you fax the paperwork over immediately?
Hmmm....
I cannot imagine any good scenario to an acquisition of Jason Marquis. One of the most over-rated pitchers around and he’s not even rated that highly. Not even sure why he has a career or even why he got the free agent money that he got.
However, looking at his stats, he’s actually been a pretty good pitcher on the road, 4.12 ERA, despite his horrible K/BB ratios. Also has a great record in AT&T. However, horrible walk rate and K/BB ratio, so he must be an extreme ground ball pitcher. And over past three years, not so great on the road, though 2008 was great.
Still, results show he can be effective on the road. So I guess I’ll change my opinion on him, he’s actually worth the money he’s getting, but you can only afford so many average major leaguers on your roster at free agent prices.
But we already have a pretty good rotation so the only trade idea I like for Marquis is the above Winn for Marquis and a throw in like Cedeno. I would also not mind getting instead of Cedeno, a reliever or another MI prospect (Cedeno is sooo yesterday). Trading Winn would work because he’s an average major leaguer getting average free agent money as well, plus it opens up RF for Schierholtz and other prospects, and fills the #5 rotation spot nicely for 2009. And if we can get a good reliever or OK MI in addition, all the better.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 1, 2008 4:53 PM PST reply actions
Harball Times stats
Can someone explain for the uninitiated what stats at that Hardball Times link show that Correia was unlucky? Thanks.
No sure what exactly Grant was going for in that link, but Correia’s peripherals this year were bad but not terrible, all his defense independent metrics were in the 5 – 5.5 ERA range. FWIW, Bill James, Marcel, and ZiPS are all projecting Correia with an ERA between 4.6 and 5.1.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
I was looking at the difference between ERA and FIP.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 2, 2008 9:27 PM PST up reply actions
First of all,
Licorice is black. Calling it black licorice is redundant. And don’t bring up that red stuff. That red stuff is not licorice. Calling it red licorice is about the same taking an apple and calling it a red orange.
Licorice is about the flavor of anise not sugar. Licorice is a sohisicated flavor that is a departure from sickly sweet candy and this, apparently, is lost on a bunch of philistine bloggers.
Greetings, Marklar! I am Marklar! This is Marklar.
THAT WAS MY JOKE FIRST SCROLL UP AND SEE FOR YOURSELVES!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 1, 2008 6:45 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry howy, I just read it again, I didnt try to be shameless joke stealer I promise!
I can haz homerunz!
It’s okay. My joke wasn’t very graceful, anyway, and your execution was better. The anus pun just generally works better when given orally.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 1, 2008 6:52 PM PST up reply actions
If red licorice is not licorice why is it called licorice.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
because black licorice is just to sophisticated for you, so they make red licorice for people like you.
I can haz homerunz!
Yet..
It’s still called licorice so if it’s not licorice why is it called licorice.
LICORICE
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
I reject your analogy. Reject, I say! It’s more like referring to scotch as scotch whisky. I suppose I could leave it as “scotch”, and you’d know what I’m writing about, but there’s nothing wrong with the extra clarification between scotch, whisky, whiskey, and bourbon.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 1, 2008 5:49 PM PST up reply actions
Wrong. Whiskey is a generic term like candy. Licorice and red vines are both candy. Scotch and bourbon are both whiskey. Saying red licorice is like saying scotch bourbon; it’s just wrong. Saying black licorice is like saying scotch whiskey; not incorrect, but redundant.
Greetings, Marklar! I am Marklar! This is Marklar.
scotch and bourbon
are not both whiskeys.
bourbon is is a whiskey, but scotch is a whisky.
they are both liquorish, however.
i think a more apt comparison is vermont orange cheese being called cheddar, which it is not; it happens to be a cheese which is, yknow, a bit similar. but not very much.
i love licorice, incidentally. but the red vines are evil.
BB should send scouts to watch cricket players.
by alea iacta est on Dec 2, 2008 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
???
Your reply contains a typo making it difficult for me to figure out out how to respond. But, bourbon is an American whiskey. Scotch is a whiskey made in Scotland. If you go to Scotland and order whiskey you will get scotch. Order whiskey in this country and you will probably get bourbon, but possibly Canadian whiskey. But it is all whiskey. Look it up.
I don’t find red vines evil, just insipid.
I’ll take your for it on the cheese though.
Greetings, Marklar! I am Marklar! This is Marklar.
Liquor would be the generic term that’s analogous to candy, so your example breaks down from there. Alls I know is that if you enter “red licorice” into Google Shopping, 15,000 results pop up.
Maybe it’s a regional thing, but there is a subset of licorice known as red licorice, and this subset is not the dandruff chiseled from Lucifer’s scrotum. Therefore, it is perfectly allowable to make a distinction between black and red licorice.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 2, 2008 9:35 PM PST up reply actions
No
Liquor would be analogous to sweets. Not all liquor is whiskey , and not all sweets are candy.
And I have to say that I am a little disapointed that you, whom I hold in high regard, would use a specious arguement like the results of a google search to bolster your argument. Bigfoot nets 8,860,000 results. It still does not make bigfoot real. It only shows that the belief in bigfoot is real. I do not doubt that many people believe red licorice to be correct, which is all your argument proves.
The flavor you taste when you eat licorice (the black stuff), whether it appeals to you or not, is the flavor of licorice.
Greetings, Marklar! I am Marklar! This is Marklar.
I like anise as a flavor in more savory foods, but not as part of candy.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
I don’t find anise to be a sophisticated flavor. I find it to be a gross flavor.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 1, 2008 6:47 PM PST up reply actions
IAWTC. Especially anise-flavored liquors. URGH.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I was told, "You're going to love this drink!"
“Eh, I dunno.”
“You like black licorice right?”
“No…”
“Oh, nevermind.”
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
My friend looooooves all anise flavored liquors.
Especially pastis which is the most foul thing i have ever tasted. AND the taste does not go away.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I tasted arak once
I still have nightmares.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
Sorry. “Gross” isn’t a very sophisticated word. It’s too snobby for that.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2008 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
Scott Malkinson has a lisp and diabetes
...Alawys surrounded by Angels and Dodger fans... This site keeps me sane
by Giant among Angels on Dec 1, 2008 7:41 PM PST reply actions
Just figured that I would add to the nonsense of this post.
I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
by Giant among Angels on Dec 1, 2008 10:43 PM PST up reply actions
Back to Baseball
This situation is exactly why I didn’t like releasing Correia in the first place.
5th Starter
Since the Giants are looking for 5th starter (for that is what Jason Marquis would be), why not sign Shawn Estes & Russ Ortiz as non-roster invitees to spring training? No risk, slim chance of reward— or perhaps one of these vets could emerge as a bullpen guy?
Despite the overpaid medicocrity that is Jason Marquis, I would be happy if the Giants traded Rowand, Roberts, or Zito for him. Even Winn, just to give Schierholtz a shot in RF.
Defender of Noah Lowry.
1. Russ Ortiz & Shawn Estes: Been there, done that, have no desire to go back. The bad market may allow the giants to get a borderline 3/4 type on the cheap. I would do this.
2. I think we are past the point of wanting to trade winn for a bag of skittles so schierholtz can play. If we trade winn, it should be for value, either in the form of a young player or prospect, not jason marquis
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Dec 2, 2008 6:28 AM PST up reply actions
I think there’s lots of options for that 5th starter this year, whether it’s a no-risk gamble, or a short term veteran. I wouldn’t want Estes or Ortiz though, as i don’t think either has much upside, but i wouldn’t be opposed to a couple of similar type pickups.
I wouldn’t trade Winn for Marquis straight up as i feel Winn is more valuable than that, and whilst it’s unlikely we’ll get much in return, i’d rather us get something more useful.
It’s difficult to comment on Marquis unless you know the parameters of a deal. If we didn’t give up anything, and it was purely a salary dump for the Cubs, then it wouldn’t be the worst deal. It certainly wouldn’t be my first choice though, and would think it’d be something you think about laster in the offseason, when other things are more defined.
Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!
5th Starter Dontrelle?
dontrelle willis and cash for dave roberts. willis is owed 10 million in ’09 and 12 million in ’10. Roberts makes 6.5 this year. maybe dontrelle would be reborn @ home and his knee could be healthier (you would think), and he sure can hit.
is this lightning in a bottle or just plain crazy talk?
Crazy talk!
Can you imagine having both Dontrelle and Zito eating $30M in 2010? Ugh. I think the D-Train is done, he wasn’t even throwing strikes in A/AAA. He’s lost velocity on his fastball as well. I think his workload caught up to him.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
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