From John Sickel's observations in Arizona
by baseballjunkie on Nov 6, 2008 6:47 PM PST
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PrintKevin Frandsen, SS, San Francisco Giants: Looks healthy which is the important thing after missing the season due to a torn achilles. Line drive bat, hits to the opposite field, hustles, won't have much home run power. Played shortstop down here and looked fine, can handle second base no problem defensively.
Good to hear Frannie's making a strong comeback. I'd say he would have to be the frontrunner for the regular 2B job. So the early returns for the infield would show 1B: TI, 2B: Frannie, SS: EB, 3B: Pablito, C: B Money.
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I would love to see that infield, which I think won’t happen because Sabean will bring in someone to play 3rd, who hopefully is at least above average.
Pac Bell, SBC, AT&T, 2010=???
aw poop
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Nov 7, 2008 8:03 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Eh
Frandsen shouldn’t be taking time at SS, the little I’ve seen of him there he has been terrible. 2B seems like his best position.
i guess this begs the question who would be the backup SS if Burriss is the starter? if Frandsen shows improvement, i’d have no problems having him penciled in as the backup
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Nov 6, 2008 8:32 PM PST up reply actions
What is the problem?
As I look at this post, I see the following:
. John Sickels says that Kevin Frandsen appeared healthy and “looked fine.”
. As you point out, the Giants have no backup shorstop at present.
. Hobbes2d says (correctly) that Frandsen “has been terrible” at the position in the past.
Those are the things we can believe. But does it follow that Frandsen shouldn’t be playing shorstop in a DEVELOPMENTAL league? I guess it does for those who have little vision with regard to the Giants’ present shortstop position and who think that with practice a player can’t improve his fielding at a position.
If everyone gave up on accomplishing something merely because he failed the first time, the world wouldn’t be a very good place, would it?
What do you mean..
The Giants have a backup shortstop! Bocock!
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
I’d rather stick with Frandsen as a backup at the majors and if someone were to go down, bring Bocock up from AAA to start. Bocock needs to develop too, and he not going to do that in the majors. Franny is fine in a pinch.
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Nov 7, 2008 7:49 PM PST up reply actions
I’ve been dying to watch a baseball player who hustles.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
Great news
Welcome back, Frandsen. Pencil Franny in the second slot in the batting order – right behind Rafael Furcal.
I like Kevin Frandsen.
I wish I had had the opportunity to meet him when we were both at SJSU. We are the same age.
So am I
I tend to get along with people like that ;)
by FairweatherFan on Nov 7, 2008 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
Does anyone else wonder how spending 13 million a year on a lead-off
hitter help solve our power void problem? I dont understand the desire to take on a player such as Furcal. Couple that with the fact that we are going to have to overspend/give more years a la rowand style to just convince the guy to come to a non-contender. I just dont understand the move.
I would love to see frandsen and burriss get very opportunity next year to man the middle infield. And we’ll be doing it at pennies on the dollar in comparison to a furcal signing. If we are going to overspend, overspend on some power … please … for the love of god … power.
Cain is Able ...
SPEED!!!!!!!!!
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Rafael Furcal
Furcal is a top tier player – when healthy. Sabean should do his due diligence and if appropriate then offer Furcal an incentive laden 4yr deal based on PAs. If healthy, Furcal will see plenty of playing time and lots of dollars. Furcal plays a solid SS defensively and has a nice OBP from leadoff spot. He could be a run producer from the top of the line-up.
SF could find some power either thru FA (Burrell, Teixiera etc) or could trade with a team looking to unload salary from a player with a year or two on contract. Heard the Mets might unload Delgado (1yr/12M), White Sox might unload Konerko (2yrs/24M) and have heard the Cubs might want to unload some monies Lee or Ramirez. All these teams want to unload some monies so they can be active in the FA market.
SF should also be able to find some power within as players Ishikawa, Sandoval, Lewis and even Frandsen improve on their 2008 power numbers. Another source could be which Rowand shows up – the first half hitter or the second half bum?
A line-up of table setters Furcal, Frandsen and Lewis followed by a run producer (FA or trade) in the clean-up spot followed by Sadoval, BMoney and Rowand should be more productive than the 2008 team.
Now what makes you think that Frandsen is going to improve on his 2008 power numbers?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Nov 7, 2008 12:11 AM PST up reply actions
On a related note, someone smoked every last bit of pot on earth
hint
wilriv21
Down in Front Meat!
by homerdrew415 on Nov 7, 2008 12:45 AM PST up reply actions
So that’s where all that pot I haven’t been smoking went.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Nov 7, 2008 7:09 AM PST up reply actions
Really?
Haven’t?
…
Then what happened to you?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
If you haven’t smoked your pot but still can’t remember where you put it, does it mean that you actually might have smoked it but forgot?
Disfrute Los Gigantes every day at www.leftymalo.com
Believe it or not, I’m a straight arrow. You know, if you ignore all the alcohol and premarital sex.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Nov 7, 2008 11:01 AM PST up reply actions
Still.
The question is not answered. What happened to you?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Oh, sorry
It was a meteor.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Nov 7, 2008 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
Howie the Dino was extinctified by a meteor!
Heh…I made up a word!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 7, 2008 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
your lust for power
will be your undoing
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Nov 7, 2008 10:19 AM PST up reply actions
The theory is that having a real leadoff-y kind of guy will allow Freddy Lew to slide down into a run producing slot.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 7, 2008 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
I thought Frandsen’s problems at short last year in spring training were more mental than physical. He made a couple of errors, and then things snowballed on him. If he gets his confidence back he can be a decent backup shortstop on those days when Burriss needs a rest.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
He doesn’t really seem to have the range, the lateral quickness or the arm for it. To me the backup SS really should be a rock solid fielder, particularly when you’re backing up somebody who’s ability to stay in a major league lineup offensively is fairly questionable to begin with. Otherwise come July or August we could be looking at The Return of Bocock!
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
“The Return Of Bocock” coming Fall 2009. This film is rated “G”, No Action, No Violence with Baseball Bats :-)
My adopted son Matt Downs. Lost in the wilderness of mediocrity.
*for the adult language and situations
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 7, 2008 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
To me
To me the backup shorstop should be a complement to the starting middle infielders — with an emphasis on hitting and if the middle infielders bat from just one side of the plate, hitting from the opposite side.
So if Manny Burriss and Kevin Frandsen were the starting middle infielders, I would like a guy who hit right-handers better and preferably had more power. Naturally I would like the backup to field as well as possible, but since both Burriss and Frandsen appear to have at least average potential in that regard (and in the case of Burriss, above-average potential), it would be the bat that would be my primary concern.
Eugenio Velez doesn’t have the power or on-base ability I would prefer, but he does hit right-handed pitching better despite being a switch hitter. If he DID have the power and on-base ability I would like, he would likely start over either Frandsen or Burriss.
He does have nice speed. He is cheap and young enough that he might improve. He is already on the squad and wouldn’t require an added transaction. What he doesn’t do, ironically, is play shortstop, even though that was his original position. So in order for Burriss, Frandsen and Velez to work as the middle infield threesome, Kevin needs to be able to play shortstop at least well enough to take over for brief periods.
Based on the above, I say give Kevin every chance to become that barely adequate shortstop until a better alternative comes up. I suspect the Giants will sign or trade for a middle infielder. But since Kevin is the only backup shorstop alternative in the house (aside, possibly, from Velez), shouldn’t the Giants give him the chance to learn the position? Shouldn’t they really be trying to get EITHER Frandsen or Velez (or preferably both) ready to perform at least backup duty there?
If Burriss can make as much improvement as quickly as he did batting from the left side (and Pablo Sandoval can have a breakout season from the left side), why can’t Kevin Frandsen ever learn to become a barely adequate backup shortstop?
lol
travis denker is what you want.
Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 7, 2008 8:55 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, to me the backup MI is by default a player who’s bat isn’t good enough to be a starting MI so I really just take it out of the equation altogether. The backup MI’s entire value to a team is likely to come from his defense (and value’s a relative term here, really all this guy’s role is is to not create too much negative value when forced into a game) so I want his defense to be as good as possible and I don’t care much if he hits like a pitcher.
There’s no terrific harm in Franny playing SS in the AFL (though you could argue that it takes time away that could be used working on being a better defensive 2B, which he’s more likely to play) but he does have a tools wall that I don’t believe he’ll ever be able to scale well enough to be an acceptable major league SS.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
I disagree
I hardly ever disagree with you, Roger (must be the name). But in this case I must.
Except for injury or horrible middle defense, there is little need for the utility infielder except to enter games when the team is behind. That can mean as a pinch hitter, in a double switch, or to replace a pinch hitter. In such cases, offense is the team’s top priority, since if it doesn’t receive any, the day is lost.
Yes, the middle infielder is usually the last pinch hitter among position players (unless it is the backup catcher, who usually isn’t used until the ninth inning, anyway). But middle infielders are usually also among the worst hitters on the team, which makes them better candidates for double switches and sometimes even for being pinch hit for by the utility infielder (if he is a better hitter) late in the game.
I think to take the bat out of the equation for a utility infielder is a mistake — although since the utility infielder should be complementary to the starters, his fielding becomes more important as the starters’ hitting improves and their fielding declines.
Since middle infielders as a group are better fielders than hitters, I believe the best complement to them is usually a good hitter who can play the middle infield at least satisfactorily.
This
You want your backup guy to be able to play a few innings without embarrassing himself, but he certainly doesn’t need to be great.
by FairweatherFan on Nov 8, 2008 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
Iffy
Mark, Kevin Frandsen at shorstop is very iffy, and the Giants appear to have declared Eugenio Velez at shortstop a lost cause. At present there are no visible alternatives for backup shortstop who are presently on the roster (aside from Nate Schierholtz, of course, since Nate can play third base and would have to move only 35 or 40 feet to play shorstop), so I agree with you that while Frandsen is limited at shortstop, there is no reason not to hope he develops there.
So
So you’re saying it is more than the cause that is lost? Are you saying that if Eugenio ever lost a ball and had to find it with his glove, the clock would be ticking on the operation for a long time?
Ochoa resigned (huh?)
The Giants site now lists Ivan Ochoa on the 40-man roster. The transactions page says he was signed on Oct. 30 (after having been outrighted on Oct. 8). Letting him go in the first place was a head scratcher, given the abundance of roster space and absence of a backup shortstop – but outrighting him and then resigning him 3 weeks later is just weird. What is going on in the front-office? Did someone there bring their kid to work and leave a computer unattended? That might also explain how Denker was waived.
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