Cain for Fielder? FOR REAL?
by Kitspool on Nov 5, 2008 3:37 PM PST
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PrintOkay, take this for what it's worth, but a co-worker of mine was just listening to Mad Dog Chris Russo on satellite radio, and Russo claimed he had received a text message from someone in the know saying that the Giants were currently in talks to trade Matt Cain for Prince Fielder. I can't confirm any of this beyond my co-worker, so would someone with satellite radio please confirm? Anything else there out on the wires?
I've forgotten after 50,000 Fanposts on this subject whether anyone on this blog would support this trade. I think it's a bad idea.
Open Freakout Thread, unless of course my co-worker is messing with me. Alternate thread topic: Should this be a Fanshot instead?
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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not bloody likely
especially since Baggs just posted (did someone put out the Signal???), and didn’t have anything on a Cain deal. Some other good grist there, though.
the item on the jints possibly dangling rowand (albeit quietly) gives me a strange degree of hope. who is this new gm and what did he do with brian sabean (not that i care, just curious).
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Nov 5, 2008 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
He’s the same old Sabean. Baggarly said HE expects the Giants’ to dangle Rowand. It’s just his opinion, not based on any sources. The one legit thing he has there is Sabean having interest in Rafael Furcal. Hmmm. Sabean talking about how Burriss will be the everyday shortstop and then pursuing the veteran Furcal?? Yeah, that’s the same old Sabean.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
rowand for swish, fielder for cain, sign teixeira and ben sheets….problem solved except 2b
go balls out or do nothing
Teixeira at third?
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
or actually build a team
at least i think that’s an option
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Nov 5, 2008 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
I have XM and was listening to XMSN all day
Russo never said this. Or at least never said it while I was paying attention anyway.
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 5, 2008 4:05 PM PST reply actions
Like the thought of signing Rafael Furcal (if incentive laden contract) and moving Fred Lewis down in the line-up. Having Furcal, Franny and Lewis in the top three slots of the batting order would provide many opportunities to the new clean-up hitter. Having bats like Sandoval, BMoney and Rowand in the five, six and seven holes should make this line-up more productive.
Please please please
find a team dumb enough to take Rowand off our hands!
Not crazy about Furcal. The dude is injury prone and plays his best when his contract is up.
But the need for a real SS to upgrade the defense and provide some offense would be appreciated. Manny looks much better at second IMO.
I wouldn’t mind Burrell, but he’d have to move back to first.
I’m hoping the Giants’ plan for this offseason is a lot better than just spending a ton of money on an aging Pat Burrell, but Sabean shouldn’t be so quick to close the door on a slugger who says playing at ATT Park is a “dream come true.” Not alot of good hitters want to play there, and Burrell might just be the best he can do on the FA market.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
we GOTS to
keep Rowand this year. Can’t dump him until he hits .300 for a season again. Besides, if we dump Gamer, we have to keep Winn.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
Winn
is better than Rowand and Winn isn’t going anywhere this year. He also becomes more valuable in CF, than he is in RF.
(this is also a reply to Natto)
Winn might be a little better in 09 than Rowand, but he’s hardly MUCH better. I think we can get a much better prospect for Winn (smaller contract) than Rowand coming off a “bad” year. I think Rowand will, in the next year or two, have a better year where he hits .300. Then we can sell higher on him.
On the flip side, if we keep Winn and he does well, he’s a type-A. Although he might accept arbitration since he too old to get a long-term contract anywhere.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
But
How much of a good prospect can we really expect to get for Rowand? I’d be happy with a bullpen arm, just get him off our payroll.
right now?
We’d be lucky to get someone to eat his whole contract. That’s why we shouldn’t sell low on him.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
It's not selling low...
I’m pretty sure everybody knows what to expect of Rowand. It’s not like he’s going to get any better than his career best numbers, which came in hitter friendly parks. I don’t see how his value is ever going to raise much higher than it is now. Especially when there’s a lack of quality CF’s in the league right now.
Unless the text message came from JUDY STEFFES, I call bullshit.
by rightcenterfielder on Nov 5, 2008 6:32 PM PST reply actions
No, it's totally true.
Anagram of "Giants pitcher Tim Lincecum" = TENSE, CLIMACTIC, TRIUMPHING
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Nov 5, 2008 7:07 PM PST reply actions
In an alternate universe, I’m working on a post about Cain for Fielder. Cain’s pretty special. He’s give the Giants 200 IP of above-average starting pitching, and he could get much better. We’re kind of expecting it.
But…aren’t we selling Fielder short with a straight “NOOOOOOOOOOO!”-reaction? The dude hit 50 homers when he was 23. Sure, he’s a one-dimensional 1B, but it’s a hell of a dimension, and this isn’t Cain for Matsui. Cain’s around for three years…Fielder’s around for three years… it makes a lot of sense for both sides.
I wouldn’t do the deal because I love the idea of Cain and Lincecum being BFF for the next decade, but I don’t think I’m an impartial observer.
who replaces Cain’s production in the rotation?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Robots degined in the image of Mark Grant.
I’ve seen this movie. it like watching Terminator XXIII made for the SciFi Channell. I’ll pass.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
Why not?
We have the T-Lincecum55 model working well for us.
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Nov 7, 2008 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
Assuming the Giants would give Sandoval 400 ABs at third if they got Fielder…
The difference between Fielder and whatever schlub the Giants park at third is probably greater than that between Cain and whatever free agent goof holds the rotation over until Bumgarner arrives. If I were a GM, I’d hire Xanthan and his Intellivision Statz Package to make sure, but it isn’t completely insane. Plus, there are plenty of options in the FA market this year. I’d rather have Fielder and Derek Lowe than Mark Teixiera’s contract and Cain, for example.
If I weren’t playing the devil’s advocate, that is.
(And if a team can make the World Series with Garrett Atkins clonking around the hot corner, I’m willing to give Sandoval a full season at third.)
by Grant Brisbee on Nov 5, 2008 8:58 PM PST up reply actions
Definitely an intriguing option. But I think I’d rather have Teixiera, Cain and Teixiera’s contract. One more year of holding on to both Cain and Sanchez would be the best move for us. One more year to maximize their trade values, one more year to accurately gauge how close Bumgarner and Alderson are.
If Cain is already worth Fielder, imagine what he’ll be worth next offseason given some improvement. Maybe we can even package the two of them together in a blockbuster deal.
So I guess you could say, I’d rather have the trade value of an improved Cain (and Sanchez) and Teixeira’s bat/glove for the next 6-9 years than a 35 year old Lowe and Fielder’s bat for 3 or more years.
I think I pulled my swagger muscle...
Wow
really? Having Tex’s contract for the length of time he will want totally handcuffs the club. Especially since we will have Zito on the books still, plus who is to say that Sanchez will increase in value. We could have traded Noah last year for a bat and didn’t now look at what he is worth. I am in no way advocating for a Fielder/Cain swap but I do not want Teixiera’s massive contract that we would no doubt have to pay. And holding out on trading Sanchez for the sake of having his stock go up is lunacy to me, he is 25 and will get better, but I would have said the same about Lowry, and he may, in fact, not get any better.
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
Ugh
Im so sick of hearing we could have traded Lowry last year, you realize that he was injured right? And everybody was aware of this? At least most people other than Giants fans were. Because you know pitchers with elbow and arm injuries get traded ALL the time and all….
Apparently Milledge was on the table for Lowry.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Good grief!
I’m not a huge Lastings Milledge fan, but he’s a prospect with potential. If he truly was on the table for Noah Lowry, the Giants were fools not to take the deal. As soon as Noah got off to a hot start despite highly questionable peripherals, I was suggesting (strongly) that the Giants should trade him.
If Lastings Milledge truly was on the table for Noah and the Giants didn’t take the deal, they’re not nearly as smart as I’m hoping they’re becoming.
Ummm when was Lowry injury made public? Wasn’t it close to or in spring training. I thought Sabean was talking trading him like at the winter meetings. Also see Marcello’s link.
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
Made public?
It was OBVIOUS he was hurt. The guy was hurt in 2006 and 2007. His fastball velocity was down about 5 MPH from 2005, and his command was a lot worse. It didn’t take a genius to figure out he wasn’t the same guy. I mean he was shut down in August of 07, you really think other teams weren’t aware of that? The only thing that might have been kept hush is the severity of his injury.
I understand what your saying hobbes, my argument is why not trade Sanchez ( which if Lowry was OBVIOUSLY hurt then you would have to say that Sanchez is OBVIOUSLY hurt since he is having similar trouble ) now instead of having the chance that he breaks down like Lowry did. That was all I was saying. And with all the buzz that was around Lowry around this time last year, someone was probably interested.
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
Oh I totally agree
I’d be surprised if anyone bit on Sanchez this off-season. He’s had trouble staying healthy, he’s still pretty unrefined as a pitcher, and his command is spotty at best. He looks like a poor man’s Oliver Perez. Which isn’t terrible, but is he really going to net anything significant? I doubt it. And if he’s coming off injury his value will be even lower, if non-existent.
Strikeouts are pretty shiny, like saves, and since Sanch for a good part of the year was mowin’ em down you would think that some GM would pick up on that right?
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
except
high strikeouts for a pitcher actually portend good things, while high saves don’t actually mean squat.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
Ya I know, I am just trying to make myself ( and Hobbes2d ) feel better and imagine Sabean being able trade Sanchez for Chase Utley and Jimmy Rollins :)
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
2.69 and 3.19
Noah Lowry’s 2007 ERA was 2.69 after his 5/21 start and 3.19 after his 8/13 outing. It was only in Noahs’ last three starts before falling to injury that his season began to sour.
Well, the thing is what do you think Fielder's
talent level is going forward, 50 homers or not.
If he is a 150+ OPS+ player, he’s a star. OTOH, if he’s going to be 130-140 OPS+ over the next several years, he isn’t worth Cain. Not when you consider position and D.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
Exactly, it depends which Fielder you’re expecting to get. If you’re expecting to get the 2007 version (OPS of 1013), then i think you’d want to make the deal, but the problem is that’s just based on one years production. If you’re getting the 2006 version(OPS of 830) or 2008 version(OPS of 879) then he’s still a good player, but it wouldn’t be worth making the deal, especially given his defense.
Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!
John Shea just posted an update at the Chron, saying Sabes isn't
interested in moving Cain, although he admits the team is fielding offers for him.
Sabean has returned to the Bay Area tonight, so his work at Dana Point is done. But between the Shea piece and the Baggs entry, there is some stuff to piece together;
*The Giants are interested in Furcal as a leadoff SS, and his agent confirmed it;
*Sabean talked to the agents for Adam Dunn and Orlando Hudson this week;
*His priority at this point is to get two infield bats, with Sandoval and Burriss taking the remaining infield spots;
*They are quietly sounding out the White Sox and Yankees about Rowand:
*He is willing to move Sanchez and prospect(s) to get bats if he can’t get FAs first:
*They are looking at Lowry and Kevin Pucetas for rotation spots, making Sanchez expendable.
Piecing this together indicates that getting Furcal for SS or Hudson for 2B is on one track; and taking a hard look at Dunn for 1B is on a second track, with Pablo being slotted back over at 3B. If they get Furcal, Burriss and Frandsen play it out for 2B, and if they get Hudson, presumably they’d not pursue Furcal and go with Burriss at SS. But it seems that Dunn is getting a look and Pablo is being reconsidered for 3B. A Pablo/Furcal/Burriss/Dunn infield would be very interesting.
And that’s before they do anything with Rowand (hello Nick Swisher), or have to give up Sanchez for another bat.
Matt Cain's drinking buddy
To reiterate...
I don’t want Furcal anywhere near this team.
I would only kick the tires on him, if “tires” = “balls” and “kick” = “KICK”
Ralph Barbieri, heal thyself.
by ThrillisGone22 on Nov 5, 2008 11:27 PM PST up reply actions
a sound voice of reason...finally.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 6, 2008 7:31 AM PST up reply actions
this
And to inflate the amount of money The Bums lose invest in him.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
Depends
To me, the Rafael Furcal situation all depends on his health When healthy, he’s darn good. He just hasn’t been as healthy as one would like. But Furcal’s lack of health will likely help keep his price a bit more reasonable, and if the Giants truly believe his health issues are behind him (and not a gluteous maximus injury), he is young enough to help the Giants establish themselves as one of the top teams of the next decade.
Doing most of the above proposals would make us a lot closer to contending within the next year or two, assuming pitching holds up. oh and if the old guys hold up over a full season or two. Question, if offering Furcal a 3 year contract got him away from the dodgers, would you accept it?
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
If I had a choice between taking a chance on Furcal for
3 years and say $30-33 million, or continuing to pay Rowand the remainder of his $48 million over 4 years, I’d opt for Furcal, plus it screws up the Dodgers and at the least drives up their final cost in keeping him. But the two are linked: I would never go after Furcal with Rowand’s contract still on our books, which is why I think Sabean is trying to move Rowand.
As for Dunn, there is a risk in asking him to be our 1B for the next 4 years and say $48-60 million, but at least with him, you’re going to get 25-35 bombs a year, mostly away from Mays Field and a lot of RBIs. And JT can work with him on defense. Doing this also allows us to keep Pablo’s bat in the lineup at 3B and backing up Molina.
But talking about players like Dunn, Furcal, and Hudson is a positive because they add run production to this lineup without us giving up our pitching, and even if we have to give these guys 3 or 4-year deals, we can take our time with the likes of Villalona, Noonan, Gillaspie, and even Crawford. The key is that we’d get an offense instantly to go with Pablo, Molina, Winn, and Lewis to take advantage of Caincecum.
Matt Cain's drinking buddy
My understanding is that he wants
4 years, but the Dodgers themselves don’t want to go that long. As for the amount, I’d love for the Giants to put $9-10 million per year out there, if for no other reason than to drive the cost up for the Dodgers. If the Dodgers have to spend that kind of cash to keep Furcal, it may screw up the rest of their offseason.
Of course, the problem is that the Dodgers may sucker Sabes into being out there on the branch by himself (another Zito situation), yet Furcal is thought of as the best free agent SS available.
Matt Cain's drinking buddy
As for Dunn, there is a risk in asking him to be our 1B for the next 4 years and say $48-60 million, but at least with him, you’re going to get 25-35 bombs a year, mostly away from Mays Field and a lot of RBIs.
Dunn also does this weird thing called OBP. That might be interesting not matter what park the game is played in.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
NO!
I can see him playing holy Hades with their roster choices the next 3-4 season. Activate decoder ring Agent Ned.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Nov 5, 2008 10:34 PM PST reply actions
He looks a little like a middle-aged Napoleon Dynamite.
Bruce Jenkins looks like a pedophile. (Insert boner joke here)
Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Nov 6, 2008 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
Well played sir. Well played.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
I realize Rowand hit poorly last year
but I’m not as down on him as most of you are. Yeah, he’s overpaid and overrated, but I’m willing to give him another healthy season before I decide if he’s not part of the next good Giants team. Playing the RF wall isn’t the easiest thing to do, and Winn has been excellent there. As much as I’d like to see Nate get a shot, his defense would probably be pretty horrible out there until he got a handle on how the ball comes off that thing.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
Do you think that maybe the right field wall may be a bit overrated? I have seen a lot of guys ( from visiting teams ) come in and have no problems with the wall. Plus, when watching juggernate there last year he looked like he was handling it ok in his limited playing time.
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
I don’t know if it’s as hard to play the wall as I like to believe that it is, but I fondly remember Vlad Guerrero in the All-Star game misplaying a ball off the wall by running in five circles, swimming two miles out to sea, doing 200 jumping jacks, and then exploding.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Nov 6, 2008 10:29 AM PST up reply actions
I always knew Vlad was awesome
Jumping jacks in the sea is really hard to do.
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
I agree
That we may have given up on Rowand a little too early,.
Remember, the first half of the season he was amazing – and then he got hurt and was never the same. It’s entirely possible the injury plagued him for the remainder of the season and really screwed up his bat.
by FairweatherFan on Nov 6, 2008 9:21 AM PST up reply actions
Amazing?
Rowand was pretty mediocre in the first half. Calling him amazing is like saying Molina is amazing. When you are one of only maybe two guys on your entire team who can hit the ball out of the infield, it’s not exactly amazing for you to have a good amount of RBI’s. And he proved the high average was a fluke. Is he as bad as he showed in the 2nd half when he struck out every other AB? No. But even when healthy he is an AVERAGE player AT BEST. No amount of gamerness should make up for the 12 mill a year.
well, he was being considered as an All-Star
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 6, 2008 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah that means something...
When every freaking team gets 1 All-Star every year and he was sadly one of the best candidates to represent the Giants. Also NL Outfielders weren’t exactly a strength last year.
huh?
did you forget about Lincecum and Wilson? There was no debate that at least Lincecum was going, and Wilson was already headed there, so it wasn’t a pity vote.
I wouldn’t describe his first-half play as amazing, but it was definitely better than mediocre.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 6, 2008 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
I know about Lincecum
but Rowand was also in consideration for the fact that he was one of a few OF’s who were actually putting up decent numbers entering June/July. Which is what I said above is it not?
“Rowand was pretty mediocre in the first half”
I was under the impression that Decent > pretty Mediocre
Kyle Nicholson: the fyootch
by stealth snail on Nov 6, 2008 9:18 PM PST up reply actions
Sir?
You need to think before you post, mang.
Kyle Nicholson: the fyootch
by stealth snail on Nov 6, 2008 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
What?
Are you High? Mediocre?
Aaron Rowand through June hit a slash of .335/.402/.530
I’ll take plenty more of that type of Mediocre, thanks.
by FairweatherFan on Nov 6, 2008 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
My problem with Rowand is not that he is crap but he is a square peg trying to fill a round whole. Unless he had a hidden injury he D is not inspiring and its suggestive he will have to move to a corner spot soonish. And he is not bat I would prefer there.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
but what if it's a a small square peg and a bigger round hole?
mind: blown.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 6, 2008 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
Welcome to Building with Sabean. In this episode we will see how to…
Mouse trap a franchise future options.
Tie up roster space with housing for dust bunnies.
The many ways to say “I am not an Idiot”.
What do you mean i been watching too much How its made ?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
but what if it’s a a small square peg and a bigger round hole?
/size joke
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 6, 2008 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
Oh, you mean like how Molina is a very large round peg trying to fit into a smaller round hole?
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Made of sapient pearwood.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Nov 6, 2008 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
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