McCovey Chronicles Community Prospect List: #13 Runoff
by marcello on Nov 30, 2008 11:42 PM PST
77 comments
80 - 80 tie at the time of the polls closing. Runoff time! Poll ends Tuesday at 5 PM.
Scott Barnes, LHP, 21 - Pitched 90.1 innings at St. John's in 2008 with 90 K, 45 BB, 3 HR, 1.26 WHIP, and 3.69 ERA as a junior. Pitched 43.2 innings in the minors in 2008, mostly at A-Ball Augusta, with 63 K, 12 BB, 0 HR, 0.67 WHIP, 1.38 ERA, and ~40% groundball rate. He throws a high 80's, low 90's fastball, a slider, and a change.
Brandon Crawford, SS, 21 - Drafted 2008, #117 overall. Hit .335/.404/.504 over 248 AB with 25 BB and 58 K his sophmore year of college at UCLA in 2007. Hit .302/.394/.491 over 232 AB with 31 BB and 59 K his junior year. He is another toolsy player considered to have not broken out yet.
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Scott Barnes all the way. Perhaps if he gets enough votes we could move up further in the list to where he belongs….
Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.
by Lyle on Dec 1, 2008 6:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Barnes
Scott Barnes did GREAT in the minors. He was a bit old for his league, but he dominated.
I worry a little that he didn’t fare as well in college, though, particularly with regard to a walk every two innings. Certainly 3.69 isn’t BAD in college, but it isn’t anything that would make one think Scott would dominate at Augusta as he did.
As with many prospects, I think 2009 will be important for Scott. I’m guessing he’ll be at San Jose. Will he still be able to dominate there? If so, I would move him up a bit. If not, he could fall back into that large group of middling prospects.
I think it may take Scott a while to outgrow his present “show me” status. But I must admit his 2008 dominance got my attention, primarily with the help of others here.
by sharksrog on Dec 1, 2008 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Barnes Old?
I don’t know the average ages for the South Atlantic League as a whole, but on the Augusta team only Villalona, Bumgarner, Noonan, and Culberson were younger than Barnes. If anything, Barnes slightly younger than average for the league.
by nelson95 on Dec 1, 2008 12:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BB-Ref doesn’t have the ’08 age averages for the SAL yet, but in ’07 the average pitcher was 22 years old and the average hitter was 21.7 years-old.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 1, 2008 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Barnes in college
from BA’s draft profile:
Barnes has had an inconsistent spring, but he pitched better down the stretch after making mechanical adjustments. He was out of sync early in the season with his delivery, causing his arm to drag and limiting his extension, and he threw across his body to compensate. He worked in the mid-80s with his fastball and struggled to command his secondary stuff. But his alignment and tempo have improved in the second half, and his fastball has climbed into the 90-92 mph range with good sink.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 1, 2008 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t that similar to the Jonathan Sanchez story?
by oldjacket on Dec 1, 2008 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Jonathan Sanchez Story, tonight on the Lifetime Channel.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 1, 2008 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
When Barnes wins does Crawford get the next spot down by default or is he thrown back into the pool? I think there are some prospects I would rate ahead of him.
by Keenlow on Dec 1, 2008 7:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
iawtc
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Dec 1, 2008 7:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ihniwtsf,bitia
(I have no idea what that stands for, but I think I agree)
Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.
by Lyle on Dec 2, 2008 6:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ITYKWTSFBJWTMAOOTT
(I think you knew what that stood for but just wanted to make another one of these things.)
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 2, 2008 8:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't that...
Just be O?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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by WalrusMan on Dec 2, 2008 7:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t throw him back into the pool until you strap on his arm floaties.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 1, 2008 7:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn’t need them; he swims so well, people call him “Crawfish”
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 1, 2008 8:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's thrown back in.
Because yes, the people who vote for Barnes might not vote for Crawford.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 1, 2008 7:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t count your chickens. Crawford voters vote late. He’s the comeback kid!
by Evan on Dec 1, 2008 7:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Barnes - from Baggs BBA Nov26
“The measure of a ballplayer is how he handles pressure, and Barnsie excels under those conditions,” Augusta manager Andy Skeels said. “Put a gun on him and you’d think it’s average major league stuff. But this kid throws three pitches for strikes, he’s deceptive, he’s an excellent fielder, he holds runners well, he competes and he’s not scared. His makeup as a pitcher is a plus for me. He’s going to be a factor at major league level, I guarantee it.”
by melottfan on Dec 1, 2008 8:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
His makeup as a pitcher is a plus for me.
Orange eye shadow and black liner: Gamer!
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 1, 2008 8:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If the nicest thing you can say about a ball player is something about his makeup, that’s a red flag for me.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 1, 2008 9:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
HE COMPETES ME
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Dec 1, 2008 9:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
HE MAKES PETE COME
…to the ballgames.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 1, 2008 11:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
again and again
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 1, 2008 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It reminds me of the pregame show for the Sharks from a few years ago. They were struggling at the time and one of the keys to the game was, “Be competitive.” Wow, that’s a key to the game? Maybe we should aim a little higher, regardless of the struggles.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 1, 2008 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
TODAY’S KEYS TO THE GAME
- SCORE MORE POINTS THAN OTHER TEAM
- DO GOOD STUFF GOOD
- COMPETE
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 1, 2008 10:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ADDENDUM:
-MAKE SURE THE OTHER TEAM SCORES LESS POINTS THAN YOU
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 1, 2008 11:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless it’s a Hearts Tournament!
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Dec 1, 2008 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind
Keep in mind that the keys to the game have to be very abbreviated in order to fit on the screen. When Drew Remenda expands and expounds, they can get more intriguing.
Also, while the execution isn’t easy, sports are really pretty simple. In baseball the keys might be:
. Throw strikes.
. Get the other starter out early.
. Be aggressively patient.
In hockey it’s:
. Get shots on goal.
. Go to the net.
. No odd-man rushes.
Oh, and of course the ever-present “be physical” and “win the battles.” Not to mention “stay out of the box, "kill penalties,” and “move the puck on the power play.”
In basketball it’s:
. Get good shots.
. Limit turnovers.
. Bang the boards.
And of course “play tough defense,” “stay out of foul trouble,” and “take the coach out for a beer after the game.”
In football it’s:
. Win the battle of the trenches.
. No penalties.
. Stop their running/passing game.
And the everpresent “keep your defense off the field,” “keep their defense out there,” and “win the special teams battle.”
Oh, and win one for the Gipper. Who the heck IS the Gipper, anyway?
by sharksrog on Dec 1, 2008 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
- Play smart
- Play within yourself
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 1, 2008 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Dec 1, 2008 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who else would you play within?
No…wait…on second thought, don’t answer that.
Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.
by EliminateMe on Dec 1, 2008 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
- Play smart with yourself
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Dec 1, 2008 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely agree, but on the other hand, “average major league stuff” is pretty good. Average major league stuff + smarts & gamerosity = no. 3 starter.
by Evan on Dec 1, 2008 10:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that’s pretty much the least complementary thing he could have actually said. He can’t say Barnes has subpar stuff. So, all we really know is that he gave Barnes the absolute minimum possible compliment. Who knows how far down he would have gone given the option to do so.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 1, 2008 10:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess when we start going down the path of what a manager can and can’t say, we should just disregard the statement entirely. Does Barnes have sub-par stuff, average stuff for the team/level, or major league average stuff? Does he actually have a good attitude, or is the manager just blowing smoke – giving out some boilerplate response about how well the player competes?
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
by kennv on Dec 1, 2008 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
I think the least complementary thing he could have said would have been “despite all these positives, he doesn’t have the moxey to put it all together. Something is missing.”
Of course that also wouldn’t have been very complimentary.
by sharksrog on Dec 1, 2008 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
I doubt there is any way the minor league manager could say that without serious repercussions from the organization. According to people within the Giants organization, every player has MLB potential. They are not the people we should be expecting unbiased opinions from.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 1, 2008 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but it's not just makeup.
Barnsie has “average major league stuff” on the radar gun, but combines it with deception and throwing strikes. A left hander in A ball throwing 87-91mph, is “major league average” I can vote for. The he also plays his position well – which is something one might want from a guy that’s been pitching for a while, and is gamertastic.
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
by kennv on Dec 1, 2008 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
See above
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 1, 2008 11:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
On the other hand
On the other hand, his manager GUARANTEED he would be a factor at the major league level, and that doesn’t get said all that often.
Skeels points to several things, only one of which was makeup. The two that most got my attention was that Scott could throw three pitches for strikes and that he was deceptive. Sounds as if Scott is a pitcher whose whole is greater than the sum of his parts.
by sharksrog on Dec 1, 2008 11:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So if he doesn’t, does that mean his manager will pay his salary or something?
I love “guarantees” that aren’t really “guarantees”. I mean, so what if Joe Namath hadn’t won that Superbowl?
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 1, 2008 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Damning with faint praise?
Without knowing somebody’s communication style (In this case Andy Skeels), it’s hard to read too much into it. If you take it literally, an A-ball pitcher with average big league stuff is pretty impressive. Also, being a factor at the major league level is pretty much what we all want from Barnes.
by mxmob33 on Dec 1, 2008 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The key
The key for me was that Skeels GUARANTEED Scott would be a factor at the major league level. Can I change my vote from Brandon Crawford back to Scott?
by sharksrog on Dec 1, 2008 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Barnes will win either way, he’s leading by over 40 votes.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Dec 1, 2008 7:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Draft Position
How much does it play into it? Does Barnes 40 innings make up for being drafted four rounds behind Crawford?
by mxmob33 on Dec 1, 2008 11:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Apparently
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Dec 1, 2008 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Generally I would say no, but those 40 innings were just so good. I suspect that most pitchers who post a line like 41 strikeouts vs. 7 walks in 32 innings in the SAL prove to be legit.
by Evan on Dec 1, 2008 12:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Crawford makes the MLs it will be as a pitcher
by wilriv21 on Dec 1, 2008 12:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I’ll bite…you’ve made this comment a number of times in various threads.
Why do you say that? Has he pitched in the past, or just have a great arm,
or ???.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Dec 1, 2008 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s got a good arm. But, the Giants will give him every opportunity to make it as a position player.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 1, 2008 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Will get lost in the shortstops with very strong arms/weak bats mix. Once the organization finally shuts down the “A ball to ML pipeline express” Crawford might be blocked from being a ML shortstop. Tidrow likes his arm and Crawford realizes his dream to become a MLer will be as a pitcher.
by wilriv21 on Dec 1, 2008 12:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you looked at the SS depth chart lately? He’ll get his chances to make it as a position player.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Dec 1, 2008 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
SS depth
Deep down, I think our SS depth is kinda shallow.
Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.
by Lyle on Dec 2, 2008 6:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We’re very deep in SS prospects, so in that aspect we’ve got good SS depth. The problem is of course, that they’re all very weak prospects, so in reality our depth isn’t very good. The quantity does help though, in so much as there’s hope that one’ll stick, although i’m not sure i could guess which one!
Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!
by GiantFan on Dec 2, 2008 6:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not that weak
I think we are underrating our shortstops a bit. Adrianza, Crawford, Bocock, and Schoop reportedly are all well above average on defense and question marks on offense. Culbertson is getting a bit of a bad rap as well as he had a poor season offensively and defensively, but heck he’s very young and will improve. I think he probably has the most offensive potential of all of them.
Adrianza, in the opinion of BA, is a better prospect than Burriss and Bocock made the futures game.
Spring training will be interesting in the shortstop battles. I think Crawford and Culbertson will battle for the San Jose job alongside Noonan and the loser goes to Augusta to share a Shortstop/Second Base rotation with Adrianza. That assumes Noonan doesn’t win the Connecticut job. Bocock probably goes to Fresno and Schoop takes Connecticut if he doesn’t get chosen in the Rule 5 draft.
by nelson95 on Dec 2, 2008 7:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The top SS prospect within the organization is Gerald Posey.
by wilriv21 on Dec 2, 2008 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you are persistent.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Dec 2, 2008 6:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
have to fill the spot after crawford is moved to pitcher
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
by kennv on Dec 2, 2008 8:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
When can we move Bocock to pitcher?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Dec 3, 2008 6:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The “Come to Jesus” meeting is right around the corner
by wilriv21 on Dec 3, 2008 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
pitched at UCLA
check the UCLA baseball website. In some important game, Crawford pitched a critical 2.2 innings of relief with 4 Ks, and a few other appearances.
Just think, some day he may be a father and we can call him Crawdad
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
by foothillsfan on Dec 2, 2008 8:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just watched that clip of Barnes on youtube and really like his delivery. His delivery starts out almost lazy-looking it’s so slow then he really accelerates at the last moment and his arm whips through He also appears to hide the ball well. I’d say that delivery adds the perception of 4-5 MPH on his FB. Looks like he’d be difficult to time if you were facing him.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Dec 1, 2008 12:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Just watched it as well, very interesting wind-up. This may be completely made up but it sort of reminds me of Okajima’s delivery albeit at a lower arm angle and in a wind-up as opposed to the stretch. His follow through is especially indicative of Okajima with the quick acceleration and substantial head jerk.
by Keenlow on Dec 1, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I saw some too
It does look deceptive, if a bit violent.
By the way, has anyone found a recent video of Aaron King? I haven’t seen any on youtube, and wanted to watch him again, considering he may return to the poll within the next few weeks. All that I remember from the short mlb.com scouting video I saw a while ago (and can’t find now) is that I was reminded of Bronson Arroyo.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Dec 1, 2008 7:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Go to this link and search by last name
by OmahaGiants on Dec 1, 2008 10:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Poll is broken
There needs to be a way to vote for “tie”.
Scott McClain: Great story, no place on the 2009 Giants.
by EliminateMe on Dec 1, 2008 4:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
No way
I got a tie for Christmas once, and I can tell you I’d much rather have Barnsie. In the organization, that is.
Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.
by Lyle on Dec 2, 2008 6:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Barnes for me. Crawford certainly isn’t a bad choice here, but the flashes that Barnes has shown so far, leads me to choose him instead.
Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!
by GiantFan on Dec 2, 2008 6:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
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