Giants Sign Renteria
by Goat on Nov 24, 2008 12:53 PM PST
72 comments
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
per MLB TRADERUMORS
I am not sure I like the idea of losing a draft pick but 2 years is much better than 4 years of Furcal at 50 million. oh well, he's a proven NL commodity....
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I think I do take this over Furcal at 4 years, though.
It’ll make more sense if we splurge on some other FA’s and try to make it a competitive year.
by fwoty oz on Nov 24, 2008 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if the Tigers were ever going to offer him arb?
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Nov 24, 2008 12:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They are now
Signing Edgar now is incredibly stupid.
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 24, 2008 1:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They don’t have to know, the fact that the Giants signed Renteria before the arb deadline automatically grants the Tigers our 2nd round pick.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Nov 24, 2008 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Tigers were going to offer him arbitration due to the simple fact that the was obviously going to sign elsewhere. Yes, waiting a few days would have taken away the not knowing, but I’ll give up the uncertainty to avoid 4years/$50M+ for Furcal…
by Scottsdale on Nov 24, 2008 1:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can endure 2 years.
2nd round pick hurts, though.
by DesertFox on Nov 24, 2008 12:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wow. Who are we building around for a championship now? Is someone honestly telling me that Renteria or someone of his caliber wouldn’t be available a week from now (when we wouldn’t sacrifice the draft pick) or that anything about his game (’08 version) is screamingly better than just letting Burriss sink or sink for the next two years? By all reports his range his range was Deivi Cruz-esque?
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Nov 24, 2008 12:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
He was a -9 by plus/minus last year.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Nov 24, 2008 1:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Burriss is a screamingly bad hitter.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Nov 24, 2008 1:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But Carney is going to teach him how to hit for power! And he was using a heavier bat!
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Nov 24, 2008 1:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Burriss is a screamingly bad hitter. I agree. And I still think this is a waste of money, roster and lineup space for the next two years.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Nov 24, 2008 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
because I am not willing to punt the 2009 season just to save a 2nd round draft pick and $9M of someone elses money.
Going into the season with and IF of Sandoval/Burrriss/Frandsen/Ishikawa (with Phelps and Velez getting PAs) is just punting.
Renteria is no stud, but he has a reasonable chance to be average. Burriss I think is sub-replacement.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Nov 24, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with your disagreement, and agree with Roger
You actually have no choice – the 2009 season has already been punted. We are simply debating the etiquette of the fair catch. A Renteria here or a Hudson there makes no substantial difference.
I’d much rather have the 2nd round pick and let Burriss play shortstop, than spend .0003% of the federal bailout on Edgar Frickin’ Renteria, who (everybody say it with me) won’t be part of the next good Giants team.
And that’s with me seriously doubting Sabean’s ability to recognize hitting talent in the draft, and being absolutely certain of the organization’s inability to develop hitters in the minors. Even with those caveats, I’d rather have the draft pick and get the next Kevin Nicholson or Scott Barnes or Aaron King.
Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.
by Lyle on Nov 24, 2008 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I see your point
but you keep punting seasons until Lincecum and Cain (small contract versions) are not part of the next good Giants team either. So why not trade them?
You shouldn’t trade them (or want) to because those 2 guys have extraordinary value (in terms of production/$$) right now – but it will decay rapidly in 3-4 years. The other “lights” of the farm system (Tim II, Bumgarner, Gillispie, Posey) are 2+ years away from even being promising rookies, let alone major competitors.
What does waiting a year get you? A second round pick, who has a 10% chance of being a contributor by 2014.
In 2010 we still need 2 of a SS, 1B, C, 2B and 3B. Pablito can play one of those, I’ll give you a 50% of either Frandsen or Ishikawa sticking at 1B. Note that they are still just barely average, AT BEST.
Pablito could play C, but then we need a 3B anyway. Burriss is not likely to be average by 2010 either, and I don’t see any shortstops on the depth chart. We get 2 picks from Winn and Molina, (see above 10% by 2015… now).
So, 2010 is pretty much punted too unless you have some grand plan, or MULTIPLE prospects expload on to the scene.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Nov 24, 2008 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pablo for SS!!
wait..that wasn’t the point?
by tyrannoman on Nov 24, 2008 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I’m in complete agreeance with you on that. My point is a different, and fairly simple one. The Giants really don’t have to worry about money that much, we’re easily one of the 5 or 6 healthiest organizations in baseball and once the land development deal becomes a reality they’re almost certainly going to join the top 3 with Boston and New York (and I don’t necessarily think they’ll be #3 in that group). We don’t really need to worry about money when making choices like Renteria v. Furcal.
We do howevever, have a huge talent gap and I just don’t see where Renteria helps that situation at all. He appears to be to be a player in full degrade mode. He’s a player who’s value is tied to his defensive position who can no longer play that defensive position adequately. He’s a player who I think can no longer play regularly for a good club. No matter what the contract numbers are, if I’m right aobut that, it’s a bad signing. Because the only consideration for these signings needs to be, are we improving our overall talent level for the near and mid-term future? I don’t think Renteria does that at all. And I think Furcal probably would.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Nov 24, 2008 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Zen
Roger’s point is the most important – Renteria’s just not that good of a player, and appears to be getting worse. I’m not sure he’d be a good idea at $3m per year for two years.
And yes, 2010 is punted also. The drafts of 2002-2006 pretty much guaranteed that. Sabean’s freeagentry made it iron-clad. But maybe we’ll get lucky and the refs will call interference on the kicking team…..
Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.
by Lyle on Nov 24, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
then we should trade
Sandoval, Lincecum and Cain for prospects.
Renteria is pretty much guarenteed to be better than Burriss in 09 and probably 10 as well.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Nov 24, 2008 10:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you can make a good case that he’ll be a better hitter than Burriss in ‘09 but I think there’s a strong chance he wouldn’t be a better short stop than Burriss. But I say again, my preference is to pony up and sign Furcal. If he’s on the field he’s a serious talent upgrade for us. If he’s not we can still afford it.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Nov 25, 2008 5:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but four years to a guy with an iffy back scares the howtheyscored out of me.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Nov 25, 2008 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ah, it doesn’t keep anybody from bitching about not going after Vladdie.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Nov 25, 2008 6:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That was actually the one thing that scatred me about possibly getting him back then.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Nov 26, 2008 1:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And he’d have to be really scared for that to happen, because I was seriously in there.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Nov 26, 2008 7:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no problem with Furcal, although 4 years I think is pushing it. But you are
a) overweighting Renteria’s 2008 defense, which I think is pretty variable year to year
b) overrating Burriss at SS, who is an average defender at best (basing this on the fact that he’s a good not great 2B
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Nov 26, 2008 8:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Renteria’s defense has been going downhill for awhile it seems to me. He was steady at best in st. louis, but his range was terrific even then. In Boston, Atlanta, and Detroit his performance has gotten progressively worse (defensively).
And thinking in the broader picture, putting him on a left side of the infield with Sandoval sounds just disastrous for our pitching staff who will learn in short order to fear allowing ground balls to the left side. Again, I agree Burriss can’t be our starting SS and really agree with Evan that seeking out somebody else’s young blocked or undervalued SS is the best idea.
But look at it this way. You say what’s the plan B to giving the job to Burriss? Ochoa or Bocock? which would of course be disastrous. But what’s the Plan B for paying Renteria 9 mil a year and his hitting gets worse and every ground ball ends in left field? I think Plan B just might be leave the vet out there for two years because he knows what he needs to do to succeed.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Nov 26, 2008 10:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well obv. Burriss is plan B in my scenario
I would like the Evan plan. I would like World Peace, too. Unless you are going to actually trade something useful, in which case I am kinda eh on the Evan plan.
Obviously if you can dump Molina or Winn for an actual SS, that would be nice.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Nov 26, 2008 6:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lawrie seems esconced as Boston’s starting SS, so that seems extremely doubtful to me. However, Brandon Wood’s star couldn’t possibly be lower at this point so he could be approaching a very high reward low risk pickup status soon. And I imagine Ned’s just dying to get rid of Lu at this point.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Nov 27, 2008 8:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There is some scuttlebuitt that the Red Sox are the “mystery team” in the hunt for Furcal. The thought is the Sox are not totally enamored with the play of Lawrie at SS.
by wilriv21 on Nov 27, 2008 8:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see it.
Thought he was not so good but not so bad either, for a rookie SS at least
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Nov 24, 2008 1:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the key
is that he is HIGHLY unlikely to put up a .340 OBP again.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Nov 24, 2008 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
so let him throw up a 295 this year and keep him hitting, by the time the giants are any good he’ll be a decent 2 or 7 hitter
right?
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Nov 24, 2008 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
probably both of those things never happen.
If he’s going to learn to hit, let him prove it in Fresno.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Nov 24, 2008 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really wish they would have waited a few days for the Tigers to not offer him arbitration
but I’m guessing the way to get it done at that price was to do it before then.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Nov 24, 2008 1:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
or maybe they thought that they were going to sign someone else’s type A anyways, so they might as well lose the pick now?
by Fresburg on Nov 24, 2008 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m afraid Sabean has been reading Martin’s study again.
Seems like a reasonable deal, though. Fill the SS hole and hope that either Frandsen or Burriss pans out at second. Hoping for both would be ridiculous.
by Evan on Nov 24, 2008 1:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no problem with the signing. At his point I prefer pretty much ANY 2 year deal to a 4 or 5 year deal. I just wish this could have been done without losing the draft pick.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Nov 24, 2008 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The compensation system either needs to be reworked to give actual compensation for players that do matter to a franchise (none of this season aggregate, free agent rental system stuff) or just abolish the compensation and allow the trading of picks so that the teams that do care about player development have the full freedom to do as they choose.
it's always noonan somewhere
by sectionop92 on Nov 24, 2008 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I completely agree
they especially need to alter the system so that they don’t treat the top 20% of relief pitchers the same as the top 20% of OFs, 1Bs, and DHs (all thrown into one group). If I was the agent for Doug Brocail or Dennis Springer I would not be happy because having to give up a first round draft pick would certainly drive their value down and would make it pretty much impossible for their club to offer them arbitration.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Nov 24, 2008 3:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
One way to fix the system would be to give real compensation for free agents lost instead of draft picks who may or may not factor into things three or four years down the road. If the compensation pending was a Double-A or Single-A prospect per free agent to match a reworked grade of both the free agent and weight of the contract given, that could be a deterrent against huge contracts for so-so players.
it's always noonan somewhere
by sectionop92 on Nov 24, 2008 9:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really need to get a cat.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Nov 24, 2008 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, I’ve known lots of people with cats and have never seen them do anything as funny or cute as these LOLcats would suggest. Plus, they don’t say things like “Can I has more?”
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Nov 24, 2008 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Projecting Renteria
Bill James – wOBA .334
Marcel – wOBA .336
Oliver – .331
Renteria had a .308 wOBA this past season.
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Nov 24, 2008 1:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
If this signing was made before the zips projections came out
I’d be all … why?
But I’m OK with it now. Would have been great to save the pick, but not realistic. Furcal is probably going to the As, and I think Renteria for 2 >> Furcal for 4 or 5. Even with the pick.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Nov 24, 2008 1:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Two points you make I completely agree with
Renteria for 2 is WAAAAAAAY better than Furcal for 4.
And even losing the pick… I’ve seen too many people on this site discuss the great failure rate of second round picks and down to be too broken hearted over this one. Sure, it would have been nice to keep the pick, but it’s currently not the end of the world.
To me, though, it’s not a great move. It’s not a bad move either, nor does it strike me as just a good move. I see this as just a move. Whatever.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Nov 24, 2008 3:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do not want to make light of a team forfeiting a draft pick to sign a FA, however, it must be looked into it’s entirety. In the Giants case if SF was to sign a Type A free agent they would then be giving up its own 2nd round pick (around #45 overall) for the services of a very decent MLer for a couple of years. With the low success of draft picks that could possibly be worth the gamble.
Plus with the sandwich pick of Gillaspie and the signing of Rafael Rodriguez this season the Giants has a surplus of picks this season to replace the lost of their 2nd rounder. Molina and Winn will either be Type A or (better yet) Type B picks at the end of the 2009 season. SF will have the opportunity to recoup a lost 2nd rounder.
by wilriv21 on Nov 24, 2008 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good stopgap
good point by Scottsdale, that the Tigers’ were probably going to offer arbitration, and the Giants’ felt the price/timing was right. This has to hurt Furcal, I’d think.
Next up, CC….
by tyrannoman on Nov 24, 2008 1:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
iT’S GRANT FROM THE MAIN PAGE. PLEASE MOVE YOUR DISCUSSION TO THE MAIN PAGE POST THAT IS UP. THANK YOU.
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2008/11/24/669544/giants-sign-renteria#comments
by Grant on Nov 24, 2008 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno. This Fanpost was written so much better than your post.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Nov 24, 2008 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Another old man. Fire Sabean now
Sports are man's last refuge from the insanity of life.
by TakeAGiantStepNGo on Nov 24, 2008 1:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
He now has one more comment than post.
by chilibean_3 on Nov 24, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We should make an award to give him for accomplishing this truly astounding feat.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Nov 24, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oops, not anymore
I see the future, and it is Pablo
by CB30 on Nov 24, 2008 5:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Internet celeb!
/deer head
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Nov 24, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I miss your scary crossdresser-looking Judy Steffes pic.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Nov 24, 2008 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
More of the same
Neukom’s first move = more of the same. What a different roadmap he’s putting in place. Did anyone actually think that Sabes would be able to change his philosophy?
by joines on Nov 24, 2008 3:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
MLBTradeRumors has it as a false report now, by Renteria’s agent
http://www.rockabilia.com/product.php?productid=67570&cat=2234&page=1
by silentearth36 on Nov 24, 2008 3:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
lesson: dont hit the up key when going to copy a link
by silentearth36 on Nov 24, 2008 3:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I guess it's all to the good
because I felt really weird defending Sabes on a Renteria signing.
I guess I was just giddy that we signed someone, anyone to play SS for < 2 years.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Nov 24, 2008 4:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You felt real flighty ( not in a fun way) after doing that as well?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Nov 25, 2008 8:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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