Giants planning to offer CC 6 years, 100+ Million
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 1:44 PM PST
263 comments
http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/11/giants_to_enter_sabathia_sweep.html
According to some New Jersey sports writer. It won't top the Yankees offer, but it's higher than the brewers offer and the idea is that CC might be willing to take less to play in the Bay and stay in the NL, where he can both hit and have inferior competition.
What'd ou say? A fanshot? What is that anyway? Don't know if I've ever seen one of those.
Maybe this isn't that big of a surprise to many, but I don't know, I didn't really expect them to be so aggressive. I'd rather have Teixeira personally, but I think there's a good chance Texieira wouldn't even consider SF, where CC obviously might
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my guess on dollars
6 years, 120 million
If CC’s agent tells the Yankees they prefer that deal…the Yanks will certainly up their offer (7 years, 160 perhaps?)
I wouldn’t want Sabean getting in a bidding war, it’s like when Roger Dorn bought the Indians in Major League II
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 1:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
That would be a pretty great deal. Can’t imagine the Giants will pull it off, though, and I wouldn’t go much higher.
by Evan on Nov 19, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
The Yanks will counter with a higher offer than their 140M offer and the Giants would probably need to raise their offer as well (probably to 7/147 or so).
I can see SF going to 7 years, 140-150 million though. Even that might not be enough
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 2:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the Giants are smart to be in bidding if only because CC might really, really want to be in northern California, but they should have a firm upper limit, and 6/120 should be close to it.
by Evan on Nov 19, 2008 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wilriv21 comments this on the issue.
According to a person familiar with the talks, the San Francisco Giants have been in touch with Sabathia’s agent and are planning an offer in excess of the six years, $100 million Milwaukee has offered, though not as high as the Yankees’ stratospheric six-year, $140 million offer.
The Giants “want to show him they’re going to be very aggressive,” according to this person. They’re hoping last week’s signing of lefty setup reliever Jeremy Affeldt (two years, $8 million) shows Sabathia they’re interested in building a winner, and they’ve told him they’re planning to go hard after free-agent shortstop Rafael Furcal as part of their off-season plan as well.
The Giants believe Sabathia would rather pitch in San Francisco than in New York, and they’re hoping they can make an offer that’s close enough to the Yankees’ offer to convince him to go there.
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by WalrusMan on Nov 19, 2008 1:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
much obliged
Looks like Neuk wants to put his own personal stamp on this organization in the same way Magowan did with the initial Bonds signing.
by wilriv21 on Nov 19, 2008 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Whenever there's multiple posts..
I like to save whatever was written there.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Nov 19, 2008 7:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Article I read said maybe around 6 years, $125 million.
Insanity is just a state of mind.
by giants9107 on Nov 19, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If everything in this article is true
then so much for the Giants being patient and re-building through the farm system.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Nov 19, 2008 1:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
pretty much
Although I guess I wouldn’t be TOO upset…the only thing you’d have to be worried about is paying your other pitchers. If all this happens, I’m guessing they think that Sandoval is going to make a big enough impact to make the offense average.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 19, 2008 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well one of the other SP would almost certainly be traded for a bat
by sam23 on Nov 19, 2008 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
At least they wouldn't be gutting the farm system to land premier talent (i.e., FA signing vs. gutting trade)
(Although I do recognize it could curtail kill their ability to lock up Tim & Co. to long-term deals when the time comes.)
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
by Giants_Junkie on Nov 19, 2008 1:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If they do sign CC
I think Cain will be viewed as expendable (though personally I don’t know if that would be accurate). They will certainly have to focus on re-signing Lincecum, and trading Cain would hopefully bring back some young hitting in return.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 19, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know if Cain would be seen as expendable because the reason that the Giants would sign CC would be to make the rotation extremely scary (Lincecum, CC, Cain). However, if the Giants did sign CC, I would bet that you could pretty much kiss Sanchez goodbye in a trade.
by deuce deuce on Nov 19, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Sanchez would probably be the odd man out.
Still, I’d almost like to see what they could do with Sanchez as the 4th and Zito as the 5th.
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Out of the rotation? I can go with that. But there is always a bull pen in need of live arms.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Nov 19, 2008 4:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so certain
I understand that a CC-Tim-Cain rotation would be much scarier than a CC-Tim-Dirty rotation, but assuming that Dirty does not get to Cain’s level, it will cost much more to keep Cain than Dirty when they hit free agency, and it will be much more difficult to keep Cain.
I’m just thinking the front office might think it better to take the risk of hoping Sanchez will pan out and getting some good hitters for Cain instead of getting solid pitching from Cain, getting some OK prospects from Sanchez, and trying to find a way to pay Cain when he hits free agency.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 19, 2008 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you’re right, but if it were me, I’d keep ‘em all. I’d gamble that Cain and especially Sanchez will be more valuable a year from now.
by Evan on Nov 19, 2008 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are right
that Cain and Sanchez will definitely be more valuable in a year, but if they are trying to win next year, they might need to sacrifice a bit of value
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 8:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
they shouldn’t sacrifice ANYTHING to try to win next year.
I hope Sabean understands that!
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Nov 19, 2008 9:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How dare you put CC ahead of Timmy on your list. Accidental or not I’ve seen people killed for less around these parts.
Proud father of Eric Surcamp!
by The Thrill on Nov 19, 2008 10:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
money overrides talent
didn’t we see that this year already?
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 20, 2008 8:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So is there really a chance that the Giants could land Sabathia and Zito would still be highest paid player on the team? Not sure if I’d laugh or cry. Probably both.
Yes we did!
by Goofus on Nov 19, 2008 1:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
and Timmy and his agent would be licking their chops
like a new puppy.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Nov 19, 2008 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I assume you mean they’d be licking their own chops and not each others’. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.)
Yes we did!
by Goofus on Nov 19, 2008 1:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Imagine if you will
If four years ago, someone told you that in 2009, the Giants would have CC & Zito in the rotation, as well as the reigning Cy Young winner from the farm system. We’d be weeping with joy and shouting championship.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 19, 2008 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
by Giants_Junkie on Nov 19, 2008 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You could probably even throw Affeldt and Phelps into that as well. Maybe this is the Giants new plan, put together what was awesome, or going to be awesome, 4 years ago.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Nov 19, 2008 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you have to admit
it is looking better than the old strategy of picking up guys that kill the Giants.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 19, 2008 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean to tell me that Mark Portugal wasn’t a good signing??
Bold Statement.
by GiantsTribe on Nov 20, 2008 8:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What are you trying to do? Give me another ulcer?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Nov 20, 2008 8:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn you Zito
Every signing now seems like a disaster waiting to happen.
Playoffs!!??
by PAWarrior on Nov 19, 2008 1:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don't know how to feel about this
Part of me wants to see Matt Cain actually be a third starter, but yikes thats a lot of money invested in the pitching staff.
Giants! Giants! HELP US GOD!
by j14 on Nov 19, 2008 1:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I am really scared
that CC will pull a Zito. I mean, really, really scared.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 19, 2008 2:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I’m not so scared of that. Zito had been getting worse for a long time, CC has been getting better.
But still, there’s plenty here to get scared about.
by oldjacket on Nov 19, 2008 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed. Any basic stat nerd could’ve told you Zito was heading downhill fast.
by fwoty oz on Nov 19, 2008 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
true...
but no one would’ve predicted a downturn quite so dramatic and sudden.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Nov 19, 2008 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
plenty predicted a downturn, although, I suppose not this extreme and fast
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 3:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I also would like to add that
While some people predicted a downturn, I don’t think that anyone thought it will be this extreme and sudden.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Nov 20, 2008 10:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Most people predicted a downturn, but probably none of them would expect it to be so dramatic and fast.
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by WalrusMan on Nov 20, 2008 1:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
One thing you neglect to mention is that many people predicted a downturn, but no on expected it to be so dramatic and fast.
by Natto on Nov 20, 2008 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, I mentioned that.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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by WalrusMan on Nov 20, 2008 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Really? Where?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Nov 20, 2008 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but did anyone really think his downturn would be so quick and abrupt?
I support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by Takimoto on Nov 21, 2008 7:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, but they did expect a downturn. Just not one that was so sudden. Where have you been all this time?
by withclubsauce on Nov 21, 2008 10:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
do we know why he went downhill so fast?
was it something that could be seen back when he was still good? or was it just an inexplicable drop in velocity and loss of control?
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 19, 2008 4:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There was a general downhill trend of his peripheral stats every year after his CY (2002)
2003 was still a pretty good year, but nowhere near as dominant.
2004 was just plain average.
2005 and 2006 got slightly above average results but his BB/K ratio was getting worse in a hurry.
His strikeouts stayed the same or decreased every year since 2001. That generally portrays a guy who’s slowly losing velocity.
I’d say it was very predictable that he would not be an elite pitcher when the Giants signed him, and would be a very poor pitcher by the end of the contract. His first year with the Giants wasn’t really a bad year – it was absolutely average. And this last season wasn’t as terrible as some make it out to be, it’s just obviously not worth premium money.
by fwoty oz on Nov 19, 2008 4:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i understand that he dropped off
I was just curious if we knew why…
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 19, 2008 4:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ya
I put it up to a decrease in velocity coupled with the league catching up to him.
Like I said, “His strikeouts stayed the same or decreased every year since 2001. That generally portrays a guy who’s slowly losing velocity.”
If your stuff stays the same and the hitters adjust to you, you can make your own adjustments and keep them off balance. When you’re losing stuff at the same time it’s pretty predictable what will happen.
by fwoty oz on Nov 19, 2008 6:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
agree with the original poster, and would rather they spent the money on a bat (Texieieieieieiera).
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Nov 19, 2008 2:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree
But I think what the Giants are thinking is that they would get CC at a relative discount if he takes their offer, where as we would probably have to outspend every other team in order to land Texiera. Just a thought.
Playoffs!!??
by PAWarrior on Nov 19, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but but but
didn’t CC already say he would leave no money on the table?
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Nov 19, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that was his agent talking. 6/$100+M is still a pretty nice table.
Perhaps enhanced with bonus for post-season appearances, etc.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Nov 19, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell!
If you’re going to spend this kind of money, get Tex.
I mean, I’d be gleeful if we got CC but Tex makes a lot more sense to me.
by fwoty oz on Nov 19, 2008 2:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I WANT GUERERRO!
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 19, 2008 2:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
lol
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Nov 19, 2008 2:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
nah
Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Nov 19, 2008 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
TWO long term deals to pitchers?!
Ooooh…. my medication…
by Natto on Nov 19, 2008 2:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Please hand me mine while your there.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Nov 19, 2008 4:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Another similar article
Only $57 million committed to 09? grr, the Rowand signing was a mistake.
Insanity is just a state of mind.
by giants9107 on Nov 19, 2008 2:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The Giants are going after that big bat!
by out machine on Nov 19, 2008 2:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think Natto said something about along the lines of “I want them to sign him, but I’m not sure if they should be doing what I want.”
I feel this way right now.
by oldjacket on Nov 19, 2008 2:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
for reals mang
Kyle Nicholson: the fyootch
by stealth snail on Nov 19, 2008 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I lord the Sith.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Nov 23, 2008 5:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
a fifth of Beethoven
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Nov 24, 2008 8:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
they should take that money
and throw it at Teixeira.
by superk1ng on Nov 19, 2008 2:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
He's next
Can you say $18.00 beers?
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Nov 19, 2008 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Texeira would come to the Bay
unless we offered him a lot more money than anyone else. CC, at least has the chance of coming without needing to be bowled over by cash
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 2:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I’m pretty fuckin’ down for having CC a Giant and FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111
let the rest of the chips fall where they may…
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Nov 19, 2008 2:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The problem is, a signing like this puts us a CC injury away from not being able to compete until Zito and CC are off the books. Very high risk given the fragile nature of pitchers.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Nov 19, 2008 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
re: fragile nature of pitchers
I think CC is more of a fridge nature
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Nov 19, 2008 9:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The difference between CC and Zito is
If CC gets hurt or loses velocity on his fastball we can stick him at 1B and he will still be our best hitter.
Proud father of Eric Surcamp!
by The Thrill on Nov 19, 2008 10:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The difference between CC and Zito is
The difference between CC and Zito is…
…about 70 lbs.
Dodgers fans eat their young.
by redhornet78 on Nov 20, 2008 10:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Try 85 lbs.
Zito 205
CC 290
Greetings, Marklar! I am Marklar! This is Marklar.
by marklar on Nov 21, 2008 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This.
by FairweatherFan on Nov 20, 2008 7:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
FROM THE MINDS THAT BROUGHT YOU THE BARRY ZITO SIGNING...
Comes this season’s must-see actiontastic explodaganza…
‘LEFT-HANDED FORMER AL CY YOUNG MEGADEAL 2: BIGGER & BLACKER’
Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Nov 19, 2008 2:35 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
part of me wants to laugh, but I’m not sure that I should (similar to how Natto feels about the potential signing of Sabathia)
by sam23 on Nov 19, 2008 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Very nice, well done
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Nov 19, 2008 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that is freaking hilarious
well done
"Why you gotta be cardin' my hos?" - Charlie Hayes
by stevieg on Nov 19, 2008 8:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OVERWEIGHT EDITION
I see the future, and it is Pablo
by CB30 on Nov 19, 2008 10:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hooray!
More 1-0 losses!
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Nov 19, 2008 2:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nah
Dude can hit. Now that Hennessey’s gone, we need that bat.
My current Interwebs obsession is pretty awesome. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Nov 19, 2008 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but what about the loss of Hennessey’s speed?
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Nov 19, 2008 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
only users lose speed
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Nov 19, 2008 4:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he only throws shutouts
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Nov 19, 2008 2:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Bochy over/under pitch limt
150 per game?
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 2:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They throw the counter away on days CC starts.
by Evan on Nov 19, 2008 2:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
naw, only 120, but with a 3 man rotation all season long
by sam23 on Nov 19, 2008 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This actually scares me. I could see bochy deciding that the top 4 (potentially CC, timmy, cainer, and the hippie) are so awesome that 5th starters are superfluous: “I’m Bruce Bochy and in my day we only had four starters!” (shudders)
by cornball on Nov 19, 2008 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ha, if he actually said that by announcing his name first like that I’d be so amused I wouldnt even be upset for a week or two til Timmy and CC both got hurt.
by sam23 on Nov 19, 2008 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, it would be pretty classy. Maybe I should introduce all my ridiculous statements like that. “I’m cornball and I like living in Omaha!” (shudders)
by cornball on Nov 19, 2008 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
seriously, I know the financial implications would suck and it would be doom and gloom in the future and all, but it would be like having Timmy day twice a week instead of just once. It would be fun to watch.
FOR ME ANYWAY!
/selfish
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Nov 19, 2008 2:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm torn.
I love the idea of CC pitching for the Giants. That makes a scary, scary, front 3. But that means that more than 1/3rd of the payroll is tied up in two pitchers.What if CC got hurt? Oy vey, that would suck.
I’m also not sure that pitching is the best use of the G’s money.
If we traded Rowand, and got out from under that contract, I’d feel a bit safer. about this. I don’t know. I’m just not sure about this one.
by Gregjitsu on Nov 19, 2008 2:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
maybe they make this move and then trim salary later on…?
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Nov 19, 2008 2:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what no one’s pointed out is, what if Zito got hurt? Then, not only do you move from ‘well, he sucks most of the time, but not necessarily, I guess,’ to ’let’s fast-track Jesse English to the majors despite the gaping $15 million dollar hole sitting in our rotation’…although I do think there’d be a couple parties hereabouts nonetheless.
by offthedeepend on Nov 21, 2008 12:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And if Sandoval is the lone offensive hope
Then we just might get Cainectomied (The aforementioned 1 – 0 loss) three times a week.
That couldn’t possibly happen , right? Right?
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Nov 23, 2008 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To counteract my WTF post earlier
Can you imagine 5 game playoff series?
Lincecum, CC, Cain, Lincecum, CC
by fwoty oz on Nov 19, 2008 2:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I’m having trouble getting past the “imagine playoff series” part…
by Natto on Nov 19, 2008 2:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Imagine a what now?
Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Nov 19, 2008 2:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
which begs the question...
If we sign CC, does Tim become our #2 the year after he brings us our second ever Cy Young? Or does CC take #2 status along with less money and a weaker offense? Also, won’t he want a park friendlier to left handed hitters?
by FPTV on Nov 19, 2008 2:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Knowing Bochy . . .
Will depend on whether the first team we play against has more left handed or right handed batters. :P
by fwoty oz on Nov 19, 2008 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Zito's still opening the season
“The pressure is off his shoulder now”
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe this is the solution
Zito starts, so neither CC or Tim get the #1 nod, king of a King Solomon type of thing. Then they could easily justify going Zito-Tim-CC for the whole L-R-L rotational symmetry.
No, of course I’m not serious. Watch your step as you cross the sarchasm.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 19, 2008 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Timmy would have to be wondering “what the f does a guy have to do to be named opening day starter around here?!”
by sam23 on Nov 19, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget matt cain...
who got screwed out of his shot at being the opening day starter last year…
by FPTV on Nov 19, 2008 3:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lose his first 9 games
and make a lot of money
by boonitez on Nov 19, 2008 9:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
More like Lincecum, CC, Cain…..done in 3 games.
Proud father of Eric Surcamp!
by The Thrill on Nov 19, 2008 10:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Payroll going up?
Maybe FO knows something we don’t about payroll? Maybe Neukom is willing to stretch the payroll a bit to fit CC in? It would be a less scary signing if we were going to be a 105 mil a year team, rather than a 90-95 mil/yr.
by Gregjitsu on Nov 19, 2008 2:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
which prompts the question:
…just how transparent are the Giants finances? Can we trust the FO to tell the truth about profits and budgets?
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Nov 19, 2008 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you gotta figure CC will be a monster draw at the gates, right? Like a Barry type draw. Maybe that factors in?
by sam23 on Nov 19, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
eh
he’s only going to pitch 14-18 games at AT&T
Let’s say maybe 3,000 more seats per game…avg price of about $35….that’s still going to be less than the salary of ANY player in the big leagues.
That won’t defray the costs too much. Even if you factor in increased TV ratings on those days and merchandise, we’re probably still looking at a figure below 1 million in profit, 2 million AT BEST!
Now, if he is the missing piece that actually makes this team a winner….we could be looking more at an extra 5-8 million, which is much more significant, along with lessening the risk of a dropoff….which is likely to happen if the team keeps losing
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that was some impressive quick math. Season ticket sales would probably jump too, but yea I see your point that he’s not exactly a “pays for himself” kind of guy.
by sam23 on Nov 19, 2008 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno..
Looking at 3000 more people per game at $35, say half his starts at home, then you’re looking at $1.68 million. Add in merchandising and especially food cost at the game, you’d probably get to 2.5-3 million per year.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Nov 19, 2008 7:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even at those rates
3 million, we’re still looking at paying CC about 22-24 million, so it’s such a small percentage of the dollars we’re talking about
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 8:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget the fatties
every overweight person in sf will be sporting the CC jersey, which only comes in XXL and sells at a premium; that will make up the difference right there. and now that is taken care of sign him.
Dodgers fans eat their young.
by redhornet78 on Nov 20, 2008 10:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
especially food cost at the game
I’m guessing this actually hurt cash flow since they’ll need a bigger post-game spread if the sign the big lefty.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Nov 20, 2008 2:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thing is..
We were a 90 million team for a few years and last year we dropped down to 70-75 million. Perhaps we’ve got some money saved up now?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Nov 19, 2008 7:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Outside the box thinking
CC brings his 1B glove for days when he is not pitching. Sadly, he might lead the team in HR’s.
Giants! Giants! HELP US GOD!
by j14 on Nov 19, 2008 2:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
not sad, but the coolest, most robust repudiation of the DH yet
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Nov 19, 2008 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean if he plays 1B when not pitching?
Because I think he might lead the team in HRs even if he’s only in the lineup every fifth day.
I once punched a hole in a light fixture in celebration of a J.T. Snow home run. That is all.
by oneflapdown on Nov 19, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It also might fool some people into thinking that we traded for Prince Fielder.
Tim Lincecum is Baseball's Chuck Norris
by Azantor on Nov 19, 2008 5:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If we dumped Rowand, I'd be intrigued.
God, the more I talk about Rowand, the angrier I get.
by DuikeBuike on Nov 19, 2008 3:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Rowand almost makes me more irritable than Zito. In fact, I think he does. Why in the world would CF be something the Giants needed to throw $60M at????
by Grant on Nov 19, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, nothing trumps Zito
Rowand was superfluous and overpaid, but he’s still at least close to hovering around an average player, possibly even slightly above average with a little luck. Bary Zito, on the other hand, is paid more to make Pat Misch look like an appealing option
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But I could see the logic. Area favorite…healthy…six straight years of 100 or better ERA+…. Sure his peripherals were declining, but I could see why a non-stat GM like Sabes would want him.
Rowand is a symptom of a larger disease. Hey, we’ll trade for Randy Winn. Sure, we’ll sign him to an extension. Oh, now we’ll chase after Gary Matthews and Juan Pierre for center, but end up with Dave Roberts. Whoops, Roberts can’t play center anymore. We’ll sign Rowand. Whoops, Rowand’s defense is declining too….
by Grant on Nov 19, 2008 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
….please dont another CF signing is what youre getting at
by sam23 on Nov 19, 2008 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
true
the move truly was stupid and devoid of logic. I can’t deny that
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 3:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just wait for 4 year 44MM with player option for year 5 he will offer Coco Crisp next winter when it become evident Errant Throwin’ should be moved to a corner spot. Ah Good times.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Nov 19, 2008 4:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
really?
thats quite a statement. But if you want to go down that path you could trace it back to the Dave Roberts signing. Dave Roberts’ CF defense had a pretty significant impact on the “need” for a CF.
by sam23 on Nov 19, 2008 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Roberts signing....
was bad, but only cost what, 15 million over 3 years?
He was Sabean’s back up option to Juan pierre, for that reason alone we should love ROberts
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
true, I just meant that his awful D led Sabean to compound the problem by signing Rowand
by sam23 on Nov 19, 2008 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
“only” he says…
I’d like to have 3 million over 15 years!
Maybe the economy will reset the pro-sport salary market as well as the housing market.
by Merope on Nov 19, 2008 5:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
because they have so goddamned much money that they can afford $60m experiments
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Nov 19, 2008 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
plus
Rowand could possibly still be traded without paying too much of his salary. Zito not so much.
by sam23 on Nov 19, 2008 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s why the Rowand signing is not even in the same league as Zito. He’s still an above average player at his position, and likely still tradeable if they want to shed the contract.
Zito was such a blatantly horrible signing from the moment the ink dried, I will never get over it.
by mxmob33 on Nov 19, 2008 3:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Zito was a far worse signing. No argument there. But the Rowand signing irritates me more. Personal semantics, I suppose.
by Grant on Nov 19, 2008 3:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rowand was always mediocre, while Zito won the CYA.
and put up several smoke-and-mirror seasons.
I know that's a pisser, baby.
by Blicks on Nov 19, 2008 5:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rowand irritates me far more as well...
…because Zito’s peak was WAY higher than Rowand’s, and at least when Zito throws the ball, it ends up within 5 feet of his target.
No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
by Skaldheim on Nov 19, 2008 4:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the Rageahol talking
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Nov 19, 2008 5:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you have a bigger version of your profile image?
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping a foot on American soil.
by BrianBokake on Nov 20, 2008 12:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
of course
but timlincecum.com has been lurking to take it
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Nov 20, 2008 7:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well...
i just wanted to use it as a desktop. Anyway you could email it to me?
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping a foot on American soil.
by BrianBokake on Nov 20, 2008 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It seems to me that CC would at least want to be the highest paid pitcher on the staff. I’m going to go ahead and make the call that if he does sign with us it with me at least 128 mill.
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping a foot on American soil.
by BrianBokake on Nov 19, 2008 3:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
no lounge chairs
just leather & fur covered waterbeds (two)
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Nov 19, 2008 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is it
that the Giants keep signing the same type of players – people that have had one or two okay years, but are probably past their prime, and will probably get way too much money from SF? Not to say CC is that type of player, although I REALLY think the money it would take to get him could be better spent on a big bat, but the other guy the Giants seem obsessed with, Rafael Furcal, is Barry Zito/Aaron Rowand version 3.0. I REALLY hope they don’t pull the deal with him off. Ugh.
by ololo3 on Nov 19, 2008 3:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Furcal is a bit different. He fills a position of need and probably wouldn’t be paid as much. That’s not saying that I want him though.
by Natto on Nov 19, 2008 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really, but I wouldn’t be that upset if we get him.
by Natto on Nov 21, 2008 10:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
we need a SS
bad.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Nov 23, 2008 10:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A bit of irony
Much of McCoven appreciates Billy Beane so it would be ironic that Oakland gives Furcal the 4yr deal that much of McCoven hopes Sabean will not give Furcal.
by wilriv21 on Nov 23, 2008 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
3 years + a 4th year if he plays 145 games or more in 2011?
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Nov 23, 2008 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
why not? If Burriss makes some serious noise, it’s not the type of contract that can’t be traded.
by oldjacket on Nov 23, 2008 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Counter point - Jack Wilson
See the Priates have been asking for some one to fill in in SS if the moved him but he has been on the block for how many years now?
Then there is Lugo with the Red Sox. Which may end up being a better example because once he was beat out at second he become less useful then teats on a peacock to the Red Sox and look how long it took them to move him.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Nov 24, 2008 8:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
we need a SS bad.
Did we release Bocock or something? Myself, I’d prefer “good”.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Nov 24, 2008 8:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All this speculation is fun and everything...
but to keep it in perspective for some, it’s still a long shot that CC signs here. The Yankees can and will offer him the moon. The Giants can probably go a bit further than they 6/125, but not to the absurd lengths of the Yankees.
I’d still put the Giants odds of landing CC just under 10%
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 3:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
In other words
50 times greater than the % of trading Rowand.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Nov 19, 2008 3:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If CC does sign with the Giants for big bucks
he can buy Vallejo and rescue it from bankruptcy.
by baseballjunkie on Nov 19, 2008 3:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
+1
..and lol.
No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
by Skaldheim on Nov 19, 2008 4:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I lolled as well
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on Nov 19, 2008 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jersey # 707!!!
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Nov 19, 2008 9:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My reaction...
…if you’re gonna blow that much money, you may as well get someone really, really good. C.C. Sabathia is really, really good. If it gives you the pitching depth to trade good young pitching for good young (cheap) hitting, well…all the better.
No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
by Skaldheim on Nov 19, 2008 4:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Optimist: CC, Timmy, Cain, Sanchez, Martinez would make me wet myself every day. It would also mean that 4 out of 5 days we have a legit shot at winning as we would almost certainly have the best pitcher that day. I see no holes or blatant errors in this.
Pessimist (copied from above): We would be a CC injury away from not being able to compete until Zito and CC are off the books. Very high risk given the fragile nature of pitchers.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Nov 19, 2008 4:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
but just a
Zito injury away from competing!
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Nov 19, 2008 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, but Bumgarner and Alderson are lurking too.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Nov 19, 2008 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to have CC, too
but there’s a philosophical question that I thought was answered after the Zito signing, which is: Is it EVER a good idea to sign a pitcher to a six- or seven-year contract? And I thought the answer was a resounding “no.” Even if CC is lights out for the first few years, is there any chance he’ll be worth $15-18 million by Year 7, or Year 6, or maybe even Year 5?
Also, I don’t feel so good about how the Brewers ran him into the ground the last few weeks of the season. Yeah, yeah, he’s not made of porcelain, but still.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Nov 19, 2008 4:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I have plenty of fears about CC's health
although I think the 7 year thing clearly isn’t true.
There are plenty of pitchers it would have been a good deal for (Maddux, Johnson, Pedro, etc.) it’s just that there are not MANY pitchers worth it
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You may be right that some pitchers would have been worth a long-term deal, but Zito clearly isn’t one of them, and like it or not we’re stuck with him. Adding a second pitchert with a 6- or 7-year contract, even one as great as CC, just seems ludicrous. The payroll risk is too high.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Nov 19, 2008 4:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If we sign CC...
… and sign Furcal as well, i would rather sit on a Lincecum/CC/Cain/Dirty/Zito rotation and the offense plus Furcal, Ishii, Frandsen and Pabito for a full season and see how that works. With the bullpen additions of Affeldt and Justin Miller, plus a year of hinshaw and romo, the team could be competitive. Bottom line: if we sign CC, i would not be in favor of trading dirty
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Nov 19, 2008 4:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I actually like this.
Granted I don’t know if the offer is closer to 140MM or 100MM. But the ceiling is good enough for now.
The Giants have established a floor and if the Dodger want CC to head their rotation they are going to have to commit more recourses. I’ll start to get worried if the Giants make a second offer out side of these bounds. But I think CC will get bigger offers from the Yanks & the Bums so I am not too worried about him accepting it.
If the team wants to increase its payroll by 20 25MM would I rather the go get Tex? Yes. Is the offer to CC a risk? Yes. But it was a risk that should be run.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Nov 19, 2008 4:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The Giants are being used
I think CC was not blown away by the 140m Yankee offer. The interest coming from the Giants and Dodgers will just mean that the Yankees will end up paying more for CC.
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 19, 2008 4:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
i concur
altho I do believe if it was a difference of maybe 5-10 million (out of 160 that is) I think CC would choose the NL and west coast. I just don’t see the Giants coming that close to the Yanks
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 8:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Glad to help!
My current Interwebs obsession is pretty awesome. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Nov 19, 2008 9:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Its long away but..
If we sign Sabathia to a 5 year deal then we have BOTH Zito and Sabathia coming off the books. I believe Pujols signed a 7 year contarct in 2006, meaning 2013 would be his FA year. Just and ideas, plus what an entertaing offseason that would be. I know im commenting on a hypothetical signing cause another hypothetical signing 5 years later, but its fun to imagine
by giantsrockdudes on Nov 19, 2008 5:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hey
Aren’t you the guy who wanted Furcal? You started all that Furcal crap!
by FutureGiantsGm24 on Nov 19, 2008 7:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind that when Tim (and a majority of the Giants other youngsters) are done with arbitration, it will coincide with the end of the Barry Zito contract in 2013 (assuming his 2014 option doesn’t vest). Thus, the Giants would have a lot more flexibility to give Tim a contract that he deserves. I’m sure Tim and his agent wouldn’t object to taking a slightly back-loaded contract if Zito’s still on the books for a season when Tim’s ready for his contract.
by deuce deuce on Nov 19, 2008 5:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nah..
Tim is either going to sign a long term contract or the Giants probably won’t go to arbitration with him the last year/last years. He’ll make so much. If he keeps going he’ll probably get $6+ his first year of arbitration, and if he continues he’ll be up to $10+ the next season. By then they’ll either have signed him to a long deal or he’ll be gone.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Nov 19, 2008 8:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, players still get less in arbitration
than they do in FA. It would cost more for the Giants to get a Lincecum type player in FA, not that that would be all that easy, or even possible, than just going year to year in arby with him.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 19, 2008 11:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if one is even availble to be gotten.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Nov 20, 2008 8:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But we all tend to forget....
Even though Sabathia had an amazing season last year, do we tend to forget that in the month of April he was 1-4 with an ERA of 7.76. I wonder what turned his season around? That really scares me….
by VTown on Nov 19, 2008 5:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nobody remembers because it was only one month. It happens.
by Natto on Nov 19, 2008 5:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
this is something i've been concerned about actually
You look at his stats in the AL, and he wasn’t a $20 million player, and did not show the kind of dominance he did last year. So mark me concerned that the NL may catch up to him with a full year of work.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 20, 2008 8:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Besides the first month, he was a 20 million dollar pitcher in the AL too.
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
by thehavenot on Nov 21, 2008 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
VTown?
You from Vallejo?
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
by thehavenot on Nov 21, 2008 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If CC goes on the DL and Zito continues to suck...
I know that's a pisser, baby.
by Blicks on Nov 19, 2008 5:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Great
CC could come here and he too could lose 2-0. At least Tyler Walker won’t blow games for him like he did for Timmy.
A McC newcomer but not outstanding.
by SFGuy on Nov 19, 2008 5:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It’s hard to evaluate this without knowing how much the Giants have to spend. If we’re on a $90 million payroll, it’s hard to justify having two guys in the rotation at $40 million total.
On the other hand, I’m in favor of getting good players, whether it be C.C., Tex or a big-bonus draftee.
by Dan from NM on Nov 19, 2008 6:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Curious as to what CC looks like in orange boxers??
Oh..sorry, I guess it’s orange boxes…never mind.
"It kind of gives everybody else out there who is not a big person the motivation and the inspiration that they know they can do it, too."--Tim Lincecum
by Timlincecum.com on Nov 19, 2008 6:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
hawt
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 20, 2008 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sign CC! Tex is another JT Snow
Signing CC is a great idea because other than Manny, he is the most proven FA commodity and also unlike Zito and Texeira, his performance has not been trending downwards in the years leading up to his FA year. CC is a horse, and backed up his Cy Young year of last year with a spectacular 2nd half after a slow start. He should give 15-20 wins every year with a sub 3.50 ERA for the life of his deal and be resistant to injury. ROI on Sabathia should be very high.
Teixeira on the other hand has been trending down in the last 3 years. His peak year was in 2005 when he hit 44 HR and 144 RBI in a hitter’s park. Since then he has been good for 30-35 HR and 110-115 RBI. Solid numbers, but why do you think Atlanta gave up on him? That kind of production is not worth $20+ Million a year, esp in a park where those numbers will drop to 25 HR and 100 RBI. Sure he plays a great 1B, but so did JT Snow. Snow was good for 20-25 HR and 100 RBI from age 28 to 32, then fell off dramatically afterwards. Would you pay $20 Million for JT Snow?
If you’re gonna spend big money this offseason, Sabathia is more worth the money, and adding him allows you to trade Cain, Sanchez, Lowry, Alderson or MadBum for young hitters that have not hit free agency yet and give you cheap production and the ability to re-sign later.
by joebirdie3 on Nov 19, 2008 8:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Teixeira
No, just no. Don’t forget that offense, league wide, has been trending down the last couple years. Teixeira, has been, is, and will be one of the best players in baseball. There isn’t a safer, big money player on the market. Please never compare Teixeira to Snow again.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Nov 19, 2008 8:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
it would be an apt comparison
if Snow played every year like he did in 04
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even then, Snow only slugged .529 that year as his career high.
Tex has been above that 4 out of his 6 seasons.
by fwoty oz on Nov 19, 2008 8:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even ignoring league wide offense,
Teixeira’s OPS the past 2 seasons have been better that his OPS in 2005.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 20, 2008 12:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Atlanta gave up on him
because they were out of contention.
And while he’s hitting fewer home runs, he has been getting on base more, and making fewer outs.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 19, 2008 11:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and, unlike JT
Tex can actually hit for power from both sides.
don’t get me wrong, i dig the LLcoolJT, but he’s no Teixeieieieiera.
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Nov 20, 2008 9:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Texiera
Rather than looking at just his HR and RBI totals, look at something that better measures his true offensive achievements, like OPS+, which is park adjusted:
2003 – 102
2004 – 131
2005 – 144
2006 – 126
2007 – 150
2008 – 151
His peak year was not 2005, as you suggest. Aside from a dip in 2006, his trending is positive…and he’s still just 29.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Nov 20, 2008 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
they can afford to increase payroll a bit
The Giants can afford to increase payroll a bit. They own part of the cable network, they have a strong broadcast deal, and a stadium which is an attraction in and of itself. There is this terrible misconception that the Giants are a small market team…
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/33/biz_baseball08_San-Francisco-Giants_339175.html
Now you see that evil shall always triumph over good, because good is dumb!
by TrojanCBB on Nov 19, 2008 8:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You're right
And to add to your point, heres some more info from Baggs
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/extrabaggs/2008/11/19/are-giants-making-their-pitch-for-cc/
So here comes Sabathia, a Vallejo native, and a demonstrated difference-maker in the rotation. If his interest is legitimate, it’s no great surprise the Giants are all ears. Remember, for all their talk of building through player development, the Giants are not the A’s or Rays. San Francisco is a top-10 revenue franchise, easily. The Giants haven’t spent a dime of their windfall from signing a new cable deal with Comcast. And if the Seawall Lot 337 development deal goes down in the next year or two, they’ll be one of baseball’s fattest cash cows.
GET ME TEIXEIRA SABES!
by superk1ng on Nov 19, 2008 8:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just think about the marketing consequences
If we Signed CC, flip Cain to Milwaukee for Fielder, and Move Sandoval to 3rd.
Sandoval,CC, Fielder, Molina
Now that’s what I call : The San Francisco GIANTS
by jctGamer on Nov 19, 2008 9:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they could cut an album, too!
"It kind of gives everybody else out there who is not a big person the motivation and the inspiration that they know they can do it, too."--Tim Lincecum
by Timlincecum.com on Nov 19, 2008 9:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
remember when giving huge, long-term deals to pitchers wasn’t a good idea because it pretty much never works out? THEN the giants got Zito.
Please no.
Brian Sabean figures that if he buys enough bottles, one of them is bound to have lightning in it.
by jasomack on Nov 19, 2008 9:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
food costs
yeah, but then you have a lot more to worry about than just the $ in the contract. Our snack costs would skyrocket for these fat bastards. You’d have to have a fulltime supply of pork rinds and ho-hos for CC… and we’d go bankrupt importing whatever gd vegetable it is thats keeping prince pushing the scale at damn near 350.
I'm a man
by Wes_Mantooth on Nov 19, 2008 9:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
little known fact
prince eats whole trees.
Brian Sabean figures that if he buys enough bottles, one of them is bound to have lightning in it.
by jasomack on Nov 19, 2008 9:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Prince is to blame for deforestation? Shame.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 20, 2008 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Could I get a giant beer to go with that?
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Nov 20, 2008 9:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
When did the Phillies acquire Rob Burger?
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 20, 2008 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Goddamn link fail
http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=17810
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 20, 2008 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And team fail. Brewers. When did the Brewers acquire Rob Burger? I think I just need a do-over on today.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 20, 2008 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No Brainer
everybody has complained about the Zito contract, not only because Zito has been awful, but they felt this contract would prevent the Giants’ from obtaining other top of the line free agents. Obviously it doesn’t, because here the Giants’ go into the FA market again to attempt to sign CC. Why does everyone think that this contract will now break the team?? It obviously doesn’t, because now we are hearing that they will STILL go after Furcal even if they sign CC. Stop worrying so much. The guy is one of the best five pitchers in the game. Sign him. Most fans get excited at the thought of adding one of the best players in the game, while we complain about it. I get excited whenever Timmy takes the mound, and now I’ll get excited whenever CC takes the mound if this happens. Roughly 40 percent of Giant games will now be happenings. Why don’t we try to enjoy baseball for once in a lifetime, instead of the constant complaining??
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Nov 20, 2008 3:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Apparently you don’t know us very well…
by Merope on Nov 20, 2008 5:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If...
(1) the Gs sign CC, (2) Lowry is healthy, (3) and neither Sanchez nor Cain are traded, what’s Lowry’s role? If he is healthy and anywhere near his previous level of effectiveness, I think that leaving him as a long reliver would be a waste of talent. OTOH, I’m not sure where else he fits in since we have Affeldt and since it would be hard to trade him for something worthwhile.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Nov 20, 2008 9:01 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Two things..
1. He’s traded. That would probably require him to have a great spring and then pitch for a while in that long relief spot.
2. Zito is moved to the long reliever position and Lowry takes the #5 starter spot. Would take a lot of balls though.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Nov 20, 2008 9:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I hate to say it
If Lowry really impresses in spring training, I bet Sanchez gets moved to the pen. I’m not saying that’s the right move, I just think it’s what this team will do. I think they’d have to try to trade Lowry…it’s not like you’d regret giving him away if he comes back to form, considering he was a #3 starter at best (seriously…he was, this wasn’t a joke). They probably wouldn’t get much in return for him, but it seems better than keeping him or Sanchez in AAA, neither of them would be happy there. And there’s no way Zito gets moved to the pen long-term, unless he completely tanks it and puts up consistent 3 IP, 7 ER games.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 20, 2008 10:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be pissed if they put Sanchez in the pen...
He showed a ton of potential last year and there is no reason they should be jerking him around. Moving him back into the pen might seriously hurt his development. I’d rather send him back to AAA to work on his command while the team tries to trade Lowry mid-season.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Nov 20, 2008 10:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind it.
I think Sanchez has a big upside and I want to see him in the rotation. But last season he clearly ran out of gas. If the reason for starting Sanchez in the pen was to showcase Lowry for an early-season trade, with Sanchez moving back into the rotation in May, I would have no problem with that.
I think he may be out of options, next year will be his 4th in the majors, making it impossible for him to go to AAA. He would never clear waivers if he is out of options that is for sure.
Greetings, Marklar! I am Marklar! This is Marklar.
by marklar on Nov 22, 2008 12:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly would not like to see the "Pen move just to make room for the questionable lefties ( Lowry & He Shall Not Be Named) but if he is legitimately beaten out then I lean toward the other side of shikantaza on this one. Not strongly though. A second coming of Mike Jackson ( and Dirty certainly has the kind of potentional ) would give this team one hell of back end of Pen.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Nov 20, 2008 10:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The pen..
May be a great place for Sanchez only if he still does not make any large strides as a starter this year. If so he’d probably be an ace 8th inning guy. He’s got such amazing stuff that especially if he adds a few ticks by going to the bullpen he’d be great.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Nov 20, 2008 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
control would be a high concern with that role, though.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 20, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Lowry is healhy the Giants would most likely keep him to get his value up.
I would expect Cain or Sanchex to get traded at that point, depending on the deals that are offered. I forsee The Giants saying “Hey Sanchez is available, buuuuuuut if you throw in a couple more guys with might consider trading Cain.” A sort of “He’s not available, but available” thing. As much as I lov and adore Cain and Dirty, more balanced teams win and they would trade for bats… emphasis on plural.
by Giant Voodoo on Nov 20, 2008 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it would be a huge mistake
To trade Cain just to make room for Lowry and Sanchez in the rotation. There’s just too many question marks between those two.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 20, 2008 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Trading Cain
if we signed CC to this huge deal, we’d probably have to because, come 2012, he’d probably cost too much to re-sign. Zito and CC would still be on the books and hopefully Lincecum would have been re-signed by them. However, there would be no need to trade Cain right away, but its hard to see his signing CC and paying him all that money with little offense behind him.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 20, 2008 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Signing him scares me but
If we ever make the postseason, wed have some scary/solid pitching to get us through it
by beagle on Nov 20, 2008 10:53 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I like CC as much as everyone else but look at his performance for the postseason. That’s lots of money for how should I say, poor production.
by timmeh on Nov 20, 2008 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
POSTSEASON STATS ARE AWESOME!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Nov 20, 2008 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s safe to say we won’t have to worry about postseason stats for a while.
by Natto on Nov 20, 2008 3:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Reading all the LULZ FATTIEZ comments made me think of this guy
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 20, 2008 11:18 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
extra baggs wednesday
is about Sabathia and our offer. Reading it, I get an implication G’s are offering high dollars but fewer than 6 years. Which is not a bad idea.
"I asked Sabean last week: Is it too great a risk to pay two starting pitchers a quarter of a billion dollars?
Sabean was elusive, saying that everything would depend on money and years. "Moreso years," he said."
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/extrabaggs/2008/11/19/are-giants-making-their-pitch-for-cc/#more-595
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
by foothillsfan on Nov 20, 2008 11:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Anagrams of "CC Sabathia"
CHIC AS A BAT
Well, yes, he is rather adept at hitting.
IT A CASH CAB
A cash cab is what we’d have to drive to his house in order to sign him.
CACA HABITS
Ewwwww!
Anagram of "Giants pitcher Tim Lincecum" = TENSE, CLIMACTIC, TRIUMPHING
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Nov 20, 2008 11:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
signing CC would be a mistake
We have a stud #1 picher and a near ace in Cain. we have 2 young guns coming up to the bigs in a year or two. Why would we need to sign CC to such a big, long term deal? we don’t. it would be a mistake.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 20, 2008 1:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
How
can adding one of the top 5 pitchers in all of baseball be a mistake? We’d have two of the top 5 starters in the ML’s on the same team, with Matt Cain as a #3 starter. I for one think this would be awesome. It would be like a reinvention of the Braves rotation in the mid 90s with Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz.
by Hobbes2d on Nov 20, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Investing 40+ million in to 2 pitchers is really, really, really stupid. Especially when most of our problems lie on offense.
by superk1ng on Nov 20, 2008 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You can never have enough pitching
What if Cain gets hurt? What if Lowry doesn’t come back? The season is over the moment Lincecum tweaks something.
You can never have enough pitching. See : Chien Ming Wang injury and the NY Yankees.
by jctGamer on Nov 20, 2008 1:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
BANNED for not knocking on wood
seriously, though, you’re right about injuries to pitching killing a season.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 20, 2008 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Middle of the order bat...
CC is a middle of the order bat on this team
by lincysgiants on Nov 20, 2008 1:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
in '03, '05, '07,
his OPS+ was 171, 242, 250. Obvious upward trend and clearly worth $20m+ per year!
by FPTV on Nov 20, 2008 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here we go again
Apparently the Yanks’ offer is only on the table…until midnight for a limited time. This probably bodes well for those in favor of signing the Big Burger Boy
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 21, 2008 8:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Kudos
You realize that pic makes me giggle uncontrollably. Far more then It should.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Nov 21, 2008 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As in “Gobias” a cup of coffee.
by withclubsauce on Nov 21, 2008 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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