Hypothetical SAW type Giants question
by NeifiChicken on Nov 18, 2008 4:04 PM PST
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PrintNot to give ANY support to the SAW franchise, but I have a SAW type question for everyone on this board.
How far would you go to rid yourself of Barry Zito's contract (not parts of it, the entire remainder of 101.5 Million over 5 years)?
Would you trade Lincecum away with the sole benefit or losing Zito? How about Cain? Sanchez? Alderson? Bumgarner?
Maybe more interesting ideas, like trading an entire year of draft picks (were that possible)? Or giving away the 1954 WS trophy to the Indians for it (thus making us the second biggest losers behind Chicago)?
How far would you go to rid yourself of the albatross? What is the MOST you would be willing to give up to get rid of Zito's contract?
Me? I'd be willing to part with Sanchez and Sosa. I don't see myself being able to trade any of Cain, Bum, Alderson, Lincecum in order to do so though. Sanchez, Sosa, and Zito for peanuts would get the deal done for me though.
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I think...
…you’re too focused on pitchers. Look to our logjam at the middle infield slots. Package Ziro with a couple of those guys (Velez? Ochoa? Burriss? even Noonan?) and maybe we can keep intact what I see a group with the potential one the top three or four 10-man pitching squads in all of baseball…
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
Yes, "Ziro" was intentional
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
by Giants_Junkie on Nov 18, 2008 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
Was the implication that any other team would want Velez or Ochoa intentional? The reason Neifi focused on pitching is that unloading Zito’s contract would probably take high end prospects.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Zito/Velez/Ochoa/Bowker for Carlos Gonzalez?
Yeah, just typing out loud…but the Rockies have demonstrated they’re players in the trade market, and that they’re looking to “stock up” … they (or was it the media?) have also hinted that CarGon might not be a part of long-term plans in Denver, while personally I would love to add him to the Giants OF mix.
OK…this is me…shutting up…for now…
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
They just traded away Holliday because they won’t be able to afford him after this year, no way they are taking Zito’s contract.
I honestly don’t think that package of players could be traded for ANYTHING. Seriously, no hyperbole.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Okay...wishful thinking on my part...you're right.
…but then again, maybe COL could flip Zito to an insane GM (Bowden?) for another couple decent prospects. Actually, Bowden would be a good one in front of which to dangle Rowand…he seems to really, really like outfielders!!
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
by Giants_Junkie on Nov 18, 2008 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
well at least...
…we’d be rid of them all in a year.
let's see
Adnruw: owed 22.1 M still
Piere: owed 28.5 M still
Schmidt:: owed about 14 M
combined ~64.6 M
Hmm so for relieving the Dodgers short terms we save about 36 million overall.
I’d do it, and because of the cash it would free up in the short term (Ned would save 25M+ even with Zito’s salary for this season) I could almost see it being feasable….on paper at least.
I’d do it, as depressing as the thought might be. If I felt Zito could turn into a league average pitcher, then I’d say no, but that’s the question when thinking about that deal:
If Zito were a free agent, would you sign him to a 5 year, 36 million dollar deal? That’s a good deal for a league average pitcher, but will Zito ever be that again?
by NeifiChicken on Nov 18, 2008 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
although
I think these are the only two GM’s that might like him. Maybe KW actually
by NeifiChicken on Nov 18, 2008 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
Wil
Please get on the phone to Agent Ned right now !
My adopted son Matt Downs. Lost in the wilderness of mediocrity.
Years 6-7 May Have a Vesting Trigger
I seem to remember that when Zito signed he had pitch an average of 200 innings in years 3-5 in order to vest years 6 and 7. If this is the case I put him at the back of the rotation at a minimum grit my teeth and bear it until year 5. I don’t give up any talent to get rid of him.
option vests with 200 IP in 2013 or 400 IP in 2012-13 or 600 IP 2011-13
He only had 180 innings this year and 196.2 last year, I think we’re good. Basically, he won’t meet those requirements if he doesn’t pitch better. It’s hard to believe that he’ll be pitching better in 2013 than he is now.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
(see below)
Barry Zito lhp
7 years/$126M (2007-13), plus 2014 club option
7 years/$126M (2007-13), plus 2014 club option (San Francisco)
signed as a free agent 12/06 (largest-ever pitcher contract at signing)
07:$10M, 08:$14.5M, 09:$18.5M, 10:$18.5M, 11:$18.5M, 12:$19M, 13:$20M, 14:$18M club option ($7M buyout)
option vests with 200 IP in 2013 or 400 IP in 2012-13 or 600 IP 2011-13
if 2014 option vests, Zito may opt out & receive $3.5M buyout
full no-trade clause
My adopted son Matt Downs. Lost in the wilderness of mediocrity.
Inflation
By the time 2113 rolls around, $20-mil a year isn’t going to seem that steep. Everyone was awed by the contract Miguel Tejada got from the Orioles a few years back. Now going into the final year of that contract, he is going to making $13-mil. Meanwhile, Rafael Furcal is going to sign a contract that will probably put his ’09 salary at at least $15-mil. So, by market rates, Tejada is somewhat of a bargain. Now consider what CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett are going to get on the open market this year. Probably in the $20-mil range for ’09, and will be around $25-mil or more for ’12 and/or ’13.
We’ll see. I think Zito still has a lot left in the tank. Good, competitive pitching is about knowing how to pace oneself. Zito still has the ability to be a very effective lefty. I’ll be very surprised if he doesn’t have at least a couple more 15+ win seasons.
Good point
Zito just realized how bad the Giants were going to be the last two years, so he paced himself so that he’ll be better in the last 5 years of his contract when they’re competitive again. Makes perfect sense…
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
I think Zito still has a lot left in the tank. bank.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Nov 19, 2008 7:30 PM PST up reply actions
I still think people are freaking out too soon
I think after this year is when we can start talking about giving him away for nothing (or giving away other prospects just to get rid of Zito). He seemed to regain decency at the end of last year and got a little more zip on the fastball with better control. He isn’t THAT far removed from being a Cy Young. I realize he isn’t the same pitcher as he was, but I don’t think the dramatic drop off in production will be permanent. I also don’t think he’ll become the pitcher he used to be, but I think somewhere inbetween seems reasonable. One more year…then we talk about giving him away and eating 75% of the contract.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
6 years removed is a lifetime, especially for a pitcher. Zito hasn’t been much better than average since 2003 and all of his important peripherals have been going the wrong way since then. He was even a bit lucky last year in terms of HRA and BABIP.
He seemed to regain decency at the end of last year and got a little more zip on the fastball with better control.
Didn’t we say this exact same thing at the end of 2007?
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
he looked even better at the end of 07 I believe...
so I don’t how much improvement we can expect.
by NeifiChicken on Nov 19, 2008 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
But that would make it harder for me to type!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Nov 19, 2008 10:42 PM PST up reply actions
Bonus!
My current Interwebs obsession is pretty awesome. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
Well, I’ll need to locate a specialist in advanced prosthetics.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Nov 20, 2008 8:13 AM PST up reply actions
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