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Edgar Renteria or Orlando Cabrera? On my San Francisco Giants?

Grant_tiny by Grant on

The horrifying, soul-masticating postscript to yesterday’s post about Rafael Furcal:

Jeff Lane, the agent for shortstop Edgar Renteria, said Monday that he expects San Francisco to make his client "some kind of formal offer" this week. Lane said that Renteria, a career .290 hitter, has drawn interest from about six teams.

This closely parallels the situation with Furcal, 31, who's believed to have received an offer from the Giants but has attracted inquiries from up to 10 teams. And an industry source said that San Francisco also has explored the possibility of signing Orlando Cabrera, another veteran shortstop.

Hey, you know who else is a career .290 hitter? Carney Lansford. He’s already in the organization, so the Giants wouldn’t even need to give up a draft pick. Plus, Lansford would have better range than Renteria at short, so the Giants would come out ahead.

What’s that, you say? Lansford is old, and he isn’t the same athlete that compiled the .290 career average? That’s kind of the point. Renteria will be 33, and his defense has already declined. Giving him anything more than a two-year deal is madness.

If Renteria is a bad idea, then Cabrera would be…uh…a much, much worse idea. Just awful. If your cousin "Stoobie" comes to you asking for a cash investment in his newest get-rich-quick scheme – a new, super-powered household cleaner he calls Bleachmonia – it would be a better idea for you to buy $10,000 worth of shares than it would be for the Giants to sign Orlando Cabrera. At least Renteria is only one season removed from a really good season. Cabrera is 34, coming off a season where he posted a .334 on-base percentage, and surely looking for a long-term deal. He would cost the Giants tens of millions of dollars, a draft pick, and their mortal soul.

This is it. The real trial of fire for Brian Sabean. No more, "Oh, but he was forced to build veteran teams around one superstar, so you can’t judge him on his past actions." No more, "Oh, but he was handcuffed by a meddling owner, and now he doesn’t have to deal with that." Sabean has made a concerted effort to build through the farm system, and it’s been an encouraging thing to watch. The Giants haven’t gone cheap with their first-round picks; the team is more active in the international amateur market than they ever have been. Draft pick compensation was an admitted concern for Sabean as he pored over the free-agent market for relievers. The unanimously heralded Jeremy Affeldt signing was the product of Sabean’s farm friendly plan. With a little patience, we just might see what a true Sabean roster will look like in a couple of seasons.

But I’m terrified that the true Sabean roster isn’t a mystery, that it’s something we’ve seen over and over and over. Old Sabean would say:

Orlando Cabrera? You know, he hits .270, and he doesn’t give up outs. He’s a hard guy to strike out, and he handles the bat well. He has speed, which fits a roster that will need to manufacture runs. He’s a veteran presence up the middle, which will help our young pitching staff.

If New Sabean exists, he would say:

You know, even if Cabrera maintains his decent production next season, he’ll surely decline in the seasons to come. If he were the missing piece – our roster’s sole deficiency – I might sign him for the short-term benefits and deal with the long-term hassles later. But he isn’t a game changer. Not in the slightest.

Add in the fact that we’d have to give up a second-round pick, which is a chance at one of the 50-best draft-eligible amateurs in the country, and it’s an easy decision just to see what Emmanuel Burriss can do in 2009. If we need to revisit the free-agent market next year, we’ll be prepared to do so.

In order to maintain my sanity, I’m still going to believe in New Sabean. I’ll leave out a plate of cookies and a glass of milk, and I’m going to pull the covers up to my eyes and wait for him. Surely, a man who pursued Gary Matthews, Jr. and Juan Pierre has to have some sort of awareness by now – ten years after he started – of the folly of free-agent mediocrity. He isn’t interested in Orlando Cabrera or, to a less horrifying extent, Edgar Renteria. This is all just bobbing and weaving in related Rafael Furcal negotiations.

Right?

Right?

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We’ll probably sign all 3

Giants! Giants! HELP US GOD!

by j14 on Nov 18, 2008 11:39 AM PST   0 recs

Now that’s thinking outside the box.

by deuce deuce on Nov 18, 2008 11:40 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

If we sign every SS and CF

everyone else will have to play with only 7 guys!

Giants! Giants! HELP US GOD!

by j14 on Nov 18, 2008 11:58 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Genius

Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

by WilliamVanLandingham on Nov 18, 2008 1:15 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Beware ...

Masticating could make hair grow on your soul.

by StickRat on Nov 18, 2008 11:40 AM PST   0 recs

i like how the emphasis has shifted from

middle of the order bat
to
middle infielder

and by “like” i mean “am really confused and pissed off by”

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Nov 18, 2008 11:41 AM PST   0 recs

+1

Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.

by ResDog on Nov 18, 2008 12:09 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

wasn’t the idea to sign a middle IF, and trade for the middle of the order bat? That’s the impression I was under. Besides, Furcal could actually hit 3rd with this lineup.

by tyrannoman on Nov 18, 2008 1:54 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

it makes sense

Replacing the abysmal production we got from shortstop with an above-average bat would be like acquiring an impact bat for one of the less horrible positions, but a lot lot cheaper.

The Denker bus is now bound for San Diego. Those who were passengers on it are now angrily stranded at a gas station in Modesto, CA. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Nov 18, 2008 2:04 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I can't explain it

But seeing “cousin stoobie” as a tag is totally breaking me up.

Anagram of "Giants pitcher Tim Lincecum" = TENSE, CLIMACTIC, TRIUMPHING

by Stuttering John Tamargo on Nov 18, 2008 11:42 AM PST   0 recs

I'm sure..

Grant uses the strangest tags of any SBNation site.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Nov 18, 2008 8:17 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Yes, this is about negotiations with Furcal. SF probably is the team that made the offer to Furcal last week in an attempt for a quick strike. It worked with Affeldt. Not so much with Furcal.

Sabean needs to be patient and wait until after December 1 date Last date for former club to offer salary arbitration to ranked free agents in order to be eligible for compensation.

by wilriv21 on Nov 18, 2008 11:43 AM PST   0 recs

Yes! Yes!! Yes!!!

MR. Nuke Them you need to make sure there is enough in the Alcohol, Blow, Party Girls Executive Entertainment Budget for 12 more day.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Nov 19, 2008 7:03 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Hopefully he’s not traveling to Orlando.

Anagram of "Giants pitcher Tim Lincecum" = TENSE, CLIMACTIC, TRIUMPHING

by Stuttering John Tamargo on Nov 18, 2008 11:48 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Where cabs are rare.

No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.

by Kitspool on Nov 18, 2008 11:49 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

so the spying mic picked up

“What do I want to do? Rent a Kia. In Orlando, cabs are rare”

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

by jctGamer on Nov 18, 2008 11:57 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Isn't this exciting?

Usually, after ten years fans know their GM. But us? No, we are still guessing. That Sabean is so mysterious. Is he the same guy that gave away a draft pick for Michael Tucker? Who has veteran lust? Who signed Zito?

Or is this a new Sabean?

I had given up on him but then he starts to act all reasonable and stuff.

I am so confused.

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.

by thehavenot on Nov 18, 2008 11:49 AM PST   0 recs

Is he the same guy that gave away a draft pick for Michael Tucker? Who has veteran lust? Who signed Zito?

He’s the same guy who signed Omar Vizquel last year.

by 2X2L on Nov 18, 2008 2:22 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

That turned out to be pretty reasonable, though

It was the whole no-backup-to-Vizquel thing that was dumb.

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.

by thehavenot on Nov 18, 2008 3:37 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

"Or is this a new Sabean?"

I disagree that we’re still guessing. Haven’t we been asking the same question for 9 years?

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Nov 18, 2008 8:18 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Haven’t we been asking the same question for 9 years?

Doesn’t that mean we are still guessing?

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.

by thehavenot on Nov 20, 2008 12:03 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I didn't realize how much I liked Furcal...

until I pondered Renteria or Carbrera as a Giant.

They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long

by bgunn on Nov 18, 2008 11:58 AM PST   0 recs

that, obviously should say Rentacar-brera.

They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long

by bgunn on Nov 18, 2008 11:59 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Had this same reaction...

Very well said. The idea of Furcal makes me assume the famous “thinker” pose. Renteria/Cabrera (especially Cabrera) makes me feel like I’m being forced to assume another position.

In all seriousness… Dave Roberts, but for the infield. I mean Renteria/Cabrera type ideas all “taste like chicken”. Like eating for chicken for, what, 3 years? Right, back to Dave Roberts.

by lucecooler on Nov 19, 2008 3:49 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I could handle Renteria on a short, cheap deal. I still think he is a productive player. The worst part is that he is a Type A.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Nov 18, 2008 12:11 PM PST   0 recs

+1

Charlie Hayes ate my homework

by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Nov 18, 2008 12:14 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, if he wasn’t a Type A I would prefer him probably. Furcal is a better defender than Renteria and I think that matters for something.

Above all, I don’t want O-Cab, no way.

#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Nov 18, 2008 12:43 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Dec 1

As Wil pointed out, he isn’t likely to be offered arbitration by Detroit—because he would accept it. So the draft pick will not affect his signing, unless it’s made before Dec 1.

by Fresburg on Nov 18, 2008 12:52 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Agreed on the no O-Cab.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Nov 18, 2008 1:19 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

What’s the difference, really? Renteria has a couple of fluky .330 seasons on his résumé, but Cabrera is more consistent. There’s maybe five or six runs of difference between them with the bat. Cabrera stays healthier and is probably a better fielder.

by Evan on Nov 18, 2008 1:27 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Check out their numbers on StatCorner:

Renteria
Cabrera

Except for last year, Renteria has been ~10-30 runs better than Cabrera with the bat each year. Renteria was also incredibly unlucky last year: 22.4% LD and a .289 BABIP. It would seem to be the perfect time to buy low on Renteria. I’m not saying we should, but I would be fine if the deal is reasonable.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Nov 18, 2008 1:53 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

OK. How bad is Renteria’s fielding, really?

by Evan on Nov 18, 2008 3:15 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

We could stick him at first...

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.

by thehavenot on Nov 18, 2008 3:38 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

In 2008 PMR had them at a difference of about 20 runs, in Cabrera’s favor. Chris Dial had it at about 7.5 runs in favor of Cabrera.

RZR 2008 – Cabrera a bit better.
RZR 2007 – Renteria a bit better.
RZR 2006 – Renteria way better.

All in all, I’d guess that Cabrera is 5 to 15 runs better with the glove than Renteria. Given that Renteria pretty much always has outhit him by at least that much, he seems better to me. I don’t know how their contracts will play out, but if the perception is that Renteria has fallen off, he might come cheaper as well.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Nov 18, 2008 3:46 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Help me be strong.

My mind says, “No! No!! No!! " on Cabrera my some how I keep thinking ,” Maybe… "

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Nov 19, 2008 11:52 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

yes

The length of the contracts Sabean ponders is the MOST scary thing here. The FUNNY thing here is that I read an article at one time that said Renteria and Cabrera hate each other. We could make them cage fight to see who gets to have the honor of signing Sabean’s 5 year contract offer.

by lucecooler on Nov 19, 2008 3:53 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

The difference?

Last 3 years:
Furcal: 333 Games, .293/.361/.420
Renteria: 411 Games, .297/.356/.429

I’ll spot you the two years on Furcal, but the bad back evens it out.

None of the above!

Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.

by ResDog on Nov 18, 2008 12:32 PM PST   0 recs

Yeah, but defense

Furcal is good. Renteria has the range of Ryan Klesko.

Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

by Aadik on Nov 18, 2008 1:12 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

ouch. that was offisides.

by tyrannoman on Nov 18, 2008 1:56 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Ryan Klesko...

At first? In left? Of his rifle out of his deer stand?

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Nov 18, 2008 8:22 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I’m trying, but I just can’t get too worked up about this threat. Decent shortstops are hard to find. Renteria and Cabrera aren’t inspiring players, but they’ll fill a role for a few years without breaking the bank.

Manny Burriss is a thin reed on which to hang one’s “play the kids” hopes. And if his 2008 was for real, well, the team still needs a second baseman as well.

by Evan on Nov 18, 2008 1:04 PM PST   0 recs

You might've changed my mind...

You’re smart to post further down in the comments. My initial outrage has cooled. You’re talking sense. I think the idea of a 3rd year on the contract bugs the snot out of me. I also think Cabrera, in particular, bugs me. But your point is well made. I guess my concern is Sabean’s vision for his role past next season. Will they sit a veteran who might be making borderline starter money?

by lucecooler on Nov 19, 2008 3:59 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

PASS

I’d rather suck next year.

by Rusty the Robot on Nov 18, 2008 1:18 PM PST   0 recs

This type of signing wouldn’t change that.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Nov 18, 2008 1:19 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

+1

seriously

by jctGamer on Nov 18, 2008 1:32 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

where is XeiFrank and his %

by wilriv21 on Nov 18, 2008 1:19 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

The returned null string answer probably broke his simulator.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Nov 19, 2008 11:53 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

old shortstops

might as well bring back omar if we’re talking about old shortstops.

by tenjay on Nov 18, 2008 1:20 PM PST   0 recs

not the worst idea, really.

by Evan on Nov 18, 2008 1:22 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

.222 Batting average is a bad idea otherwise we could just start bocock and save the 4 mil a year

by cazzuno on Nov 18, 2008 1:26 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Omar will be a better hitter when he’s 50 than Bocock is now.

by Evan on Nov 18, 2008 1:28 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Toe the rubber, Brian

Brian Bocock should talk with Dick Tidrow about going the Joe Nathan route.

by wilriv21 on Nov 18, 2008 1:32 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

There’s not a rubber big enough for Bocock.

Disfrute Los Gigantes every day at www.leftymalo.com

by leftymalo on Nov 18, 2008 2:29 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

nice

Yes we did!

by Goofus on Nov 18, 2008 2:46 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Wow..

I’ve missed this.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Nov 18, 2008 8:25 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

golf clap

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Nov 19, 2008 7:07 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Wasn’t it the “Trevor Hoffman route” before it was the “Joe Nathan route”?

Yes we did!

by Goofus on Nov 18, 2008 2:47 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

and before that it was known as the Reverse Babe Ruth

by wilriv21 on Nov 18, 2008 3:02 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

not to be confused with the reverse cowgirl

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Nov 20, 2008 10:14 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Today’s post reminds me of the “talk me down” gegment on Rachel Maddow’s show.

Yes we did!

by Goofus on Nov 18, 2008 1:27 PM PST   0 recs

I have such a mad girl crush on her. Just told my boss to “talk me down”… not world affairs though just an A/R credit I disputed. Wow. My life is really kinda dull huh?

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. Rogers Hornsby

by igotnothing on Nov 18, 2008 4:34 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Rachel rocks. I have a boy crush on her. Smart is sexy!

Yes we did!

by Goofus on Nov 18, 2008 5:10 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I am so disapointed that she is on vacation today!

Some other erudite, attractive woman on the show…..

just ain’t the same!

Charlie Hayes ate my homework

by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Nov 18, 2008 6:57 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Arianna was terrible on Monday

by wilriv21 on Nov 18, 2008 7:11 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Horrible.

Yes we did!

by Goofus on Nov 18, 2008 11:43 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Content

I could be perfectly content with the Giants’ not signing a middle infielder. If they were to do so, I would root for Rafael Furcal — but only if the Giants’ doctors were very sure he was healthy and likely to stay that way.

I would be going for the future, not the present. But at the very least I would want to sign players capable of contributing at least three years down the line — preferably longer.

by sharksrog on Nov 18, 2008 1:34 PM PST   0 recs

aggreed

The Denker bus is now bound for San Diego. Those who were passengers on it are now angrily stranded at a gas station in Modesto, CA. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Nov 18, 2008 1:48 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

If we have to sign one, Furcal would be best, since we wouldn’t lose a draft pick. I’d rather not acquire a middle infielder at all, unless his name rhymes with Base Butley.

by Gregjitsu on Nov 19, 2008 10:14 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I believe

I believe Brandon Rutley, redshirt freshman running back at SJSU, would be available. He’s of middle infielder size, although I don’t know how his double play pivot is. Plenty of quickness for the position though.

by sharksrog on Nov 19, 2008 12:03 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

There’s a new take, forget the argument about whether or not humans have souls, change it into whether if they do have them they are mortal or not.

by paboperfecto on Nov 18, 2008 2:05 PM PST   0 recs

Ronny Cedeno at Short

Cubs need an outfielder

I would think that the Giants would make a good match for the Cubs’ current left handed outfielder need. Unfortunately their needs likely wouldn’t include Dave Roberts.

by Fresburg on Nov 18, 2008 3:48 PM PST   0 recs

or Rowand

by sam23 on Nov 18, 2008 7:08 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I'll have a cup of this Kool aid please!

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Nov 19, 2008 7:19 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Too soon

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?

by zenbitz on Nov 19, 2008 9:20 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Hair of the dog man.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing h