McCovey Chronicles Community Prospect List: #9
by WalrusMan on Nov 17, 2008 2:36 PM PST
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PrintThe great freeze has been thawed, and thus, we move on. Poll ends at 7PM PST (I think) on Wednesday.
1. SP Madison Bumgarner
2. "C" Buster Posey
3. SP Tim Alderson
4. 1B Angel Villalona
5. 2B Nick Noonan
6. 3B Conor Gillaspie
7. SP Henry Sosa
8. OF Rafael Rodriguez
Today's Contestants on "The Prospect is Right"
Ehire Adrianza, SS, 19 - Hit .241/.351/.325 in 2007 over 249 AB in the DSL with 41 BB and 37 K. Hit .288/.382/.409 in 2008 over 66 AB, mostly in Rookie Ball with 9 BB and 6 K. He is an excellent defensive SS and scouts love him.
Scott Barnes, LHP, 21 - Pitched 90.1 innings at St. John's in 2008 with 90 K, 45 BB, 3 HR, 1.26 WHIP, and 3.69 ERA as a junior. Pitched 43.2 innings in the minors in 2008, mostly at A-Ball Augusta, with 63 K, 12 BB, 0 HR, 0.67 WHIP, 1.38 ERA, and ~40% groundball rate. He throws a high 80's, low 90's fastball, a slider, and a change.
Brandon Crawford, SS, 21 - Drafted 2008, #117 overall. Hit .335/.404/.504 over 248 AB with 25 BB and 58 K his sophmore year of college at UCLA in 2007. Hit .302/.394/.491 over 232 AB with 31 BB and 59 K his junior year. He is another toolsy player considered to have not broken out yet.
Travis Ishikawa, 1B, 25 - Drafted 2002, #637 overall. Hit .260/.355/.454 over ~2500 AB in the minors across all levels. Broke out in 2008 with a .291/.382/.462 line in AA and a .310/.370/.737 line in AAA before hitting .274/.337/.432 in the majors. He is also a great defensive firstbaseman.
Wendell Fairley, OF, 20 - Drafted 2007, #29 overall. Hit .259/.388/.337 over 193 AB in Rookie Ball in 2008 with 26 BB and 37 K. He has incredible tools with plus raw power and great speed.
Roger Kieschnick, OF, 21 - Drafted 2008, #82 overall. Hit .302/.373/.621 over 232 AB with 24 BB and 44 K his sophmore year of college at Texas Tech in 2007. Hit .305/.407/.632 over 220 AB with 35 BB and 42 K his junior year. Is hitting approximately .294/.455/.471 in the HWL. He is a big, toolsy player who is considered to have not broken out yet despite his good college numbers.
Joseph Martinez, SP, 26 - Drafted 2005, #372 overall. Has thrown 547.2 innings in his 4 years of pro ball with an ERA of 3.40 and 1.17 WHIP. Last season in AA he threw 148 innings with 131 H, 6 HR 37 BB 112 K for an ERA of 2.49 and 1.14 WHIP. More of a finesse pitcher than anything, bat has continued to post good stats as he moves up in levels.
Osiris Matos, RP, 24 - Signed as an undrafted free agent in 2002. Started his career as a starter and was converted to a reliever in 2006. Last year in the majors his threw 20.2 innings and had a 4.79 ERA with a 1.69 WHIP, but in 36.2 innings in AA this year had a 1.23 ERA and a 0.98 WHIP.
Kevin Pucetas, RHP, 23 - Drafted 2006, #506 overall. Over three seasons has thrown 342.2 IP, 300 H, 267 K, 69 BB, 17 HR, 1.08 WHIP, 2.47 ERA, and ~53% groundball rate across the three levels of A-ball. In 2008 threw 125.1 IP, 115 H, 102 K, 27 BB, 6 HR, 1.13 WHIP, 3.02 ERA, and a 51% groundball rate in High-A. He throws a high 80's, low 90's fastball, a fantastic change, a curve, and an in-progress slider.
Ryan Rohlinger, 3B/2B?, 25 - Drafted 2006, #176 overall. Has played 3B in the minors but is being considered for 2B it seems. Hit .235/.332/.415 in his first full season with 18 HR in the SAL league. Hit for a better average last year in San Jose at .285/.368/.419 and posted a .855 OPS in a short AA trial before being called up to the big leagues to sit on the bench. He's got good patience but probably not the power to stick at third.
Clayton Tanner, LHP, 20 - Drafted 2006, #89 overall. Over three seasons has thrown 278.1 IP, 288 H, 213 K, 91 BB, 7 HR, 1.36 WHIP, 3.62 ERA, and ~56% groundball rate across the three levels of A-ball. In 2008 threw 117.0 IP, 124 H, 84 K, 39 BB, 1 HR, 1.39 WHIP, 3.69 ERA, and a 55% groundball rate in High-A. He throws a fastball, breaking ball, and change.
Testers: Justin Hedrick, Brian Anderson, Thomas Neal
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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KIESCHNICK
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
guzenheit
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Nov 17, 2008 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
Adam Dunn!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Good comp! But at age 21, Adam Dunn was hitting more home runs and drawing more walks and striking out less than Roger Kieschnick is in Hawaii — only he was doing it in the big leagues.
I’m not being entirely serious.
And we’re not talking #1 prospect, we’re at #9. Come on!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Yeah, I know. I’m just saying, he lasted till the third round, and his performance since then makes me want to drop his ranking rather than move him up, so I’m more interested in the younger, toolsier guys like Adrianza and Fairley.
I don’t really get what people like about Fairley at this juncture
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
There's no call for name-calling...
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
by BruteSentiment on Nov 17, 2008 7:13 PM PST up reply actions
HBP?
The Frando factor?
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping foot on American soil.
STATS!
waaaiiitt . . .
Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 17, 2008 10:43 PM PST up reply actions
If we got Dave Kingman out of him, I’d be pleased.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Hey, Kingman had a 115 career OPS+ and a few years of 120+. That’s pretty okay.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Doesn’t Kieschnick have a pretty good defensive reputation?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
And pitched, too.
Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Nov 17, 2008 11:25 PM PST up reply actions
Good speed and arm, I believe. From the site that Evan linked to below:
His speed, arm strength and defensive skills are all average to plus tools, though he still needs work on getting better angles on balls in the outfield.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
As much as I’ve been bashing Kieschnick, I am now formally throwing my support his way to stave off the twin low-upside threats of Ishikawa and Pucetas.
Is there anyone you actually favor here? Fairley?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Heh. I don’t know, at this point you’re basically choosing between players with potential who haven’t done anything yet and players with a solid minor-league track record but little chance to be stars in the majors. I’m biased toward the former, but since we have so little information about them, we’re basically choosing at random. I chose Adrianza, but I could be talked into several others without much trouble.
Evan is Adam Dunn!
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
If ever there was a player that OPS+ was not well-equipped to evaluate, it was Dave Kingman. His career line was .236/.302/.478 coupled with stone-handed defense. He had a few good years in the middle of his career where he inexplicably hit for a high average, but most of his career was a study in how to hit a lot of home runs without actually being a good player.
Oh I wasn’t trying to say he was great or anything, but a Dave Kingman career would still be a lot better than anything we’ve gotten out of our farm system, hitting-wise, in awhile. And it seems like Kieschnick has better plate discipline than Kingman did anyway.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
ummmm
Harmon Killebrew isoOBP= .1.46875.
dude took a good share of walks.
Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 19, 2008 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, but Jenny
…we want to set our sights a bit higher than that. Dave Kingman was/is the antithesis of what we need. Rob Deer also.
We shouldn’t be so desperate that we’d date just anybody that asked us out.
Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.
I know, I’m just saying. Maybe not actual Kingman-esque production, since obviously he was OBP-lite and SLG-heavy, but a 115 career OPS+ out of Kieschnick would be pretty cool.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
+1
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect ranking before stepping foot on American soil.
I said Ishi
He’s shown a little bit in the majors, and had a great bounceback year last year in AA/AAA.
I’m with you. Ishi!
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Nov 17, 2008 8:07 PM PST up reply actions
Why does the poll question ask who is #7? Alert! Election fraud! Alert! Damn you Diebold!
Oh yeah, I voted for Ishikawa.
Yes we did!
What?
I don’t see what you’re talking about. Are you on the pot again?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
I know but, we care for you.
And if you’re seeing things, then that’s something we care about.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
You're the one who admitted it...
And if it happens, it’s you who are banned.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
i voted for clayton
cuz that’s my cat’s name.
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Nov 17, 2008 2:51 PM PST reply actions
Fairley, going with the upside!
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
Scott Barnes!
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Nov 17, 2008 3:02 PM PST reply actions
Matos, Rohlinger, and Martinez have pretty low ceilings.
Pucetas and Tanner have a little more upside, but neither has even seen AA yet.
Ishikawa also has little chance of being an impact player, but his chances of being a solid contributor are pretty good.
The rest are long-odds upside plays … I guess I’ll go with Adrianza just on a hunch.
Matos
Why does he have a low ceiling? In 67 innings last year at 3 levels he had 66 Ks. He’s always had a low ERA and WHIP since he’s turned into a reliever. I could see him topping out as a good 7th/8th inning guy. That’s worth, I dunno, about 4-5+ million a year.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
But a strikeout an inning isn’t particularly great for a minor-league reliever. You want more than that.
Ryan Rohlinger has a decent shot at becoming the next Jack Hannahan or Pedro Feliz. Isn’t that about as valuable as a solid 7th/8th inning guy?
does he?
I doubt his glove is anywhere near as good as Pedro’s
by NeifiChicken on Nov 17, 2008 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
Pedro’s glove wasn’t anywhere near as good as Pedro’s, but he got better.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
I’m not sure if Goofus is the one that’s been sniffin the dandelions if you know what i mean. . .
(i mean pot)
Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Nov 17, 2008 10:48 PM PST up reply actions
k per inning
Pretty sure Misch, Giese, and others had that a couple years back. Not uncommon.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
well
He’s 20 and couldn’t hold his own at rookie ball; it’s pretty fair to be low on him.
Ooooh, alphabetized. Very nice. I see we can have more than 10, also nice.
Question: For the testers, what do people think about adding Aaron King?
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Don’t know much about him, but it’ll be a while before I vote for a juco draftee who’s never pitched above rookie league.
Dumb question: why “testers”? You’re testing the waters or something?
It’s just a place to list the guys that we’ll be putting onto the polls next. This way, we can gauge if people think they are worthy of being on the actual list soon.
it’ll be a while before I vote for a juco draftee who’s never pitched above rookie league.
I really don’t think you should have blanket rules like this. Here’s what BA said about him, courtesy of Bay City Ball:
He has all the things scouting directors love, as a 6-foot-4 lefthander who pitches in the low to mid-90s. Possibly the best lefthander in the junior college ranks, King is a strikeout pitcher, pitching off his fastball and putting hitters away with his slider. He also throws a changeup. He’s athletic on the mound and still has projection. His delivery is somewhat unconventional and causes him to be erratic at times. The question with King, at it is with most juco pitchers, is whether he will throw enough strikes. His K-BB ratio this season was close to 3-1. He will at least be given a chance as a starting pitcher in the pros. He’s a freshman at Surry and relatively new on the scouting radar, and he wasn’t drafted out of high school.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Seriously, he sounds a lot like Scott Barnes, but Barnes is clearly ahead of him, so I wouldn’t worry about King till Barnes comes off the board.
Well, that’s the idea. He sounds a lot like Barnes and was drafted right around the same spot as Barnes. So, he’ll likely end up somewhere close to Barnes on the list. Also, I don’t know that Barnes is clearly ahead of him since it sounds like King has a little bit better stuff and gets more groundballs.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Better numbers at a higher level. But looking up these guys on pgcrosschecker, I’m getting more excited about both of them.
Barnes: “He started throwing his fastball by hitters more consistently later in the year when it reached 92-93 mph. His command of the pitch was better, too, and he mixed in a near-average slider and a fair change, which he didn’t throw very often…. he solidified himself late in the season as a solid second- or third rounder.”
King: “Everything he promised to be this spring with a fastball up to 94 mph, though it was more commonly in the 90-92 range. Physically, he fits the profile of the big, powerful, loose lefthander…. He has the whole package for a team that might willing to take a run at him in the first couple of rounds.”
What an awesome draft, getting these arms in the 7th and 8th rounds to go along with all the college hitters early.
Add in the Giants success/ability in developing pitchers, and it’s very exciting. Awesome site, I really wish you would have mentioned it at the beginning of the lists.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
I am not too sure about a player named Error King!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 18, 2008 8:08 PM PST up reply actions
Fairley...
the tools are all there and he can draw walks. He battled injuries last year and I think can bounce back for a nice 2009. I hope they don’t keep him too low in the minors though
well...
it’s not so much where he starts, but where he finishes. I felt MadBum shouldn’t have been in Augusta so long, but I understand why they did it (family, etc.)
I’d be willing to put Fairley in Augusta, but the bottom line is, I’d ideally want him in San Jose by year’s end. Obviously if his performance is suffering in Augusta, that won’t make much sense, but if he succeeds in Augusta, I’d want him to finish the last two months or so in San Jose
by NeifiChicken on Nov 17, 2008 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
There seems to me that there is something a little off with him. He reportedly was striking out at an alarming rate in spring training and it looks like they decided to have him concentrate on going the other way a la Fred Lewis. He didn’t show much power or steal many bases although he did have a really good OBP. But I heard that his high OBP contained a lot of Hit By Pitches, which isn’t exactly what you want for your star 5 tool prospect. Also, he did not get the promotion to Salem-Keizer for the playoffs like many of his teammates although Salem-Keizer was in dire need of outfielders due to injuries. Don’t you think that’s a bit odd?
I have him at 15 or 16 on my list, which is still really high. He also was only rated by BA as the 20th ranked prospect in his league, behind Adrianza (4th), Casilla (9th), and Nicholson (17th). I think he said that King was just out of the top 20.
Kieschnick gets my vote...
Fairley, Ishikawa, Pucetas and Tanner will be tough picks for the next few.
For testers, Eddy Martinez-Esteve, Ben Copeland and Matt Downs all would be on my list.
SFDugout.com is BACK! See the Top 50 Giants Prospects!
Remember in years past...
… when Cody Ransom would crack the Top 10. I sure hope we’ve evolved from that!
by Rusty the Robot on Nov 17, 2008 3:45 PM PST reply actions
I forgot to make a point...
Some of these guys look like they could actually make a career out of playing baseball at the highest level. Kudos to our scouts.
by Rusty the Robot on Nov 17, 2008 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
I was about to say..
Cody Ransom looked like he could actually make a career out of playing baseball at the highest level, but then I looked at his stats for evidence.
…
Wasn’t there something good about him? I thought there was at least.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
2001, maybe? 23 HR’s for a SS is impressive. But, it was in Fresno, and came attached to a .241 AVG and .303 OBP.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Kieschnick
upsiiiiiddde…. and closer to it than Wendell
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
Ishikawa
He’s had results at a high level. The rest of these guys are mostly toolsy guys in the low minors who don’t have the stats.
My current Interwebs obsession is pretty awesome. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
My point exactly during an earlier vote. The rest of these a-holes are either toolsy douches or douchey tools. Screw ’em all! Ishi ’08! (How do you say “yes we can” in Japanese?)
Yes we did!
I'm voting Ishi a few spots later
half asian pride!
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
Formatting Note
Having large polls like this seems to make runoffs inevitable. I don’t know if limiting some of these polls is possible or if having a large poll followed by a runoff is the way to go, but i’m not sure it is working. However, the debate is quite fun.
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
Ishi
He was once upon a time a young draft bonus baby. And now the bounce back season.
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
Where are the Pucetas supporters?
Speak up!
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
I am a Pucetas Supporter…but not for this poll.
Todd Jennings: If he's on the DL, he can't suck as much, right?
by Speedforthewin on Nov 18, 2008 7:33 AM PST up reply actions
I voted Pucetas
I just didn’t stick around to argue the point — if others want to be wrong, that’s their inalienable right.
Check out The Examined Life. Or don't. Whatever.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Nov 18, 2008 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
Jesse English
Considering he’s a minor league FA, is he ineligible for this list? I’d probably put him above Barnes at this point, just because his K/9 (11.24) has held up over a larger sample size (265 innings), and he’s closer to the big leagues.
English
The Giants could have put him on their 40 man roster before the October 15th deadline and chose not to. I think the good K/9 and win totals only make him more attactive to other teams and it will cost them nothing in compensation. I think he is as good as gone and therefore should not be considered for the prospect list.
hey walrus,
to save time you could use this result for 2 spots: Kshnick 9, Pucetas 10
[o wait, wasting time is the whole point, nevermind]
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
Nope
The people who voted for Kieschnick aren’t necessarily voting for Pucetas. People such as me.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
C'mon...let's go to 11.
I think we can call this one, eh? Time for #10…?
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
yeah, I know...that was just a Spinal Tap reference/ joke.
Giants: World Series Champions...in 2011.
by Giants_Junkie on Nov 20, 2008 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
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