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I found this stunning

I read this over the weekend and Grant just linked to it. This list of our big free agents signings over the past seven years was just astounding to me. Sure we got some decent results out of a few of those guys but, for the most part, it's a complete and total trainwreck and it seems like the more money we spend, the bigger the bust.

Aaron Rowand (before the 2008 season); Rich Aurilia, Bengie Molina, Dave Roberts and Barry Zito (2007); Matt Morris (2006); Armando Benitez, Mike Matheny and Omar Vizquel (2005); Brett Tomko and Michael Tucker (2004); Edgardo Alfonzo, Ray Durham and Marquis Grissom (2003); Reggie Sanders (2002) and Eric Davis and Shawon Dunston (2001).

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Of those I'd say the following worked out well...

1) Brett Tomko – a great value for what we paid him. He wasn’t the no. 2 starter Sabean made him out to be, but was a very good signing
2) Molina – I don’t think anyone could have expected more out of Molina than he’s given us
3) Durham’s 1st contract – Durham was always a tremendous hitter during the length of his first contract, whose only faults were health and defense
4) Reggie Sanders – A cheap one year deal for an average glove and an average bat…not flashy, but worked out well for us
5) Jose Cruz Jr – He’ll only ever be remembered for thing to Giants fans, but e was signed to an affordable one year contract and posted a .366 OBP and a well deserved Gold Glove

by NeifiChicken on Nov 10, 2008 11:10 AM PST   0 recs

fixed

Jose Cruz Jr – He’ll only ever be remembered for thing to Giants fans, but e was signed to an affordable one year contract and posted a .366 OBP and a well deserved ironic Gold Glove

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Nov 10, 2008 12:04 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Not fixed well enough

an ironic Gold Glove

Yes we did!

by Goofus on Nov 10, 2008 1:08 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I Ron Ic yes..

But deserved. I’ve forgotten what game it was, but if it was a regular season screw-up, then it’s one of the few times that an award voting process took into account the entire season and not just the highs or lows of the end of the season.

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by WalrusMan on Nov 10, 2008 2:12 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

It was a playoff game against the Marlins.

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Nov 10, 2008 2:15 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Well..

Nevermind then. But he was a very good RF for us.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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by WalrusMan on Nov 10, 2008 2:16 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

That he was.

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Nov 10, 2008 2:48 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Fixed

1) Brett Tomko – a great value for what we paid him real piece of shit. He wasn’t the no. 2 starter Sabean made him out to be, but was a very good signing large waste of time & money.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Nov 10, 2008 12:09 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

All of this striking out

Seems appropriate for a Giants blog.

Anagram of "Giants pitcher Tim Lincecum" = TENSE, CLIMACTIC, TRIUMPHING

by Stuttering John Tamargo on Nov 10, 2008 1:28 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

you are today's winner

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Nov 10, 2008 3:57 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Tomko..

For $1.2 mil and $2.65 mil he gave us ERA+ seasons of 108 and 95. Not bad.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Nov 10, 2008 2:15 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Don't

Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good rant. :)

by sharksrog on Nov 10, 2008 11:10 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I would have to throw Marquis “wheeling it big in the outer outfield” Grissom into the mix as a good signing, as well. He played very well for two years, then broke down during the third. No complaints on that one at all.

by tyrannoman on Nov 10, 2008 1:28 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Where

Where the Giants messed up with Reggie Sanders’ signing is that they didn’t exercise a relatively inexpensive option for 2003. Reggie went on to post an OPS of over .900 in 2003, indicating the Giants weren’t overly shrewd with regard to him. Reggie was an every-other-year player, they type which occasionally exist, and the Giants signed him in that other year, then let him go in the year he was good.

by sharksrog on Nov 10, 2008 11:07 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

True, but they replaced him with Jose Cruz Jr., who was very very good the first half, and very poor the second half (with the bat). He was fantastically good with the glove until two of the biggest chokes I’ve seen in pro sports in the post season.

by tyrannoman on Nov 11, 2008 8:29 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

“Giants” and “overly shrewd” haven’t belonged in the same sentence since the ’50’s, as best I can tell, Rog.

Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.

by Lyle on Nov 11, 2008 11:42 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Good signings (…not bad signings?)
Shawon Dunston
Reggie Sanders
Marquis Grissom
Ray durham
Michael Tucker (I liked him)
Brett Tomko
Omar Vizquel
Rich Aurilia

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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by WalrusMan on Nov 10, 2008 11:13 AM PST   0 recs

I agree. Sabean does a pretty good job at finding some value around the fringes of free agency. Assuming you can pin Zito on Peter Magowan, I think you can say Benitez, Alfonzo and Morris were his only serious miscues over the last 8 years. Over this period of time, I think he balances out to at least a mediocre job in the free agent market.

by out machine on Nov 10, 2008 11:43 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Eh...

Dave Roberts was an unneeded signing. Aaron Rowand was an overpay it seems, but that’s what the market was holding.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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by WalrusMan on Nov 10, 2008 2:16 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Aaron Rowand was a bad signing not just because it was an overpay, but because we already had Winn, Lewis, and Nate, not to mention Roberts and Davis, and because Rowand looks unlikely to be a good player in 2010 and beyond, which is more important than what he did/will do in 2008-9.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Nov 11, 2008 3:56 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

There’s really two problems with all these signings:

1. All the players listed above were on the downsides of their careers
2. Sabean avoided at all cost signing a true impact, middle-of-the-order bat.

While some of the signings he’d made worked out very well for the Giants (such as Durham’s first contract, as pointed out above), he wasn’t an up-and-coming type, nor was he an impact guy. That’s been the real problem the Giants have had all these years.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Nov 10, 2008 5:36 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

But..

If Sabean signed a true impact, middle-of-the-order bat then he wouldn’t be able to sign all the players on the downsides of their careers!

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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by WalrusMan on Nov 10, 2008 7:08 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Shawon was a pimp.

Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil

by SoFa King Mike on Nov 10, 2008 12:11 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Yea.

And sure he didn’t have the best production when he was here, but in playoff times I’m looking for that ~ * ~ Veteran Presence ~ * ~ that he has, at least to be a bench player.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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by WalrusMan on Nov 10, 2008 2:17 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

“Yeah Barry, you’ll hit 71. Now give me a Benz.”

Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil

by SoFa King Mike on Nov 10, 2008 2:23 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Ray Durham was a pretty awesome Giant.

#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Nov 10, 2008 11:14 AM PST   0 recs

Agreed

Molina has been good too

I see the future, and it is Pablo

by CB30 on Nov 10, 2008 12:00 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Omar, Richie, Durham (the first time we signed him), Bengie, Sanders, and Matheny

were all good signings. Omar was great the first couple years. Durham was great in 06. Richie wasn’t great but was still productive last year. Bengie’s been excellent with our pitching staff and helped a lot in raising Timmy and Matt, and he’s still (somehow) one of the best hitters in our lineup. Matheny was excellent behind the dish up until he got knocked in the head too many times; that’s in no way Sabes’ fault. Sanders was a cheap, one year deal and he helped us in the postseason. And also Tomko was good for the value we signed him at. He didn’t really cost us anything. The rest were all horrible and high-cost, but still, not all of the ones on the list were bad ideas.

by boonitez on Nov 10, 2008 11:14 AM PST   0 recs

I’ll disagree on Matheny even though he had a career year with that bat for us in ‘05 (OPS+ of 81). I guess he was a pretty awesome defensive catcher but he shouldn’t have been a starter. Matheny wasn’t going to make our pitchers magically better by catching them.

#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Nov 10, 2008 11:20 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I’m not sure I agree with you there. He was a total liability with the bat, be he’s also the best defensive catcher I’ve seen. His pregame work was amazing (both personally and from what the the pitchers say with them as well). He was certainly the anti A.J.

by tyrannoman on Nov 10, 2008 1:30 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

he was also a very timely hitter

Maybe it was just randomness, but he came through a great deal when it mattered that year…

checks stats

hit .273/.353/.455 in high leverage situations (105 PA’s) that year. Plus he was always good at moving runners along and hitting sac flies, or so it seemed

There are only two hitters in my Giants history who I think performed much better than their stats, David Bell in 2002 and Mike Matheny in 2005. Perhaps it was just random/luck, but those two really stick out to me

by NeifiChicken on Nov 10, 2008 1:50 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Good point on Bell. There are a few guys who always seem to be better than their stats with any winning team. Remember that godawful Mark Lemke?

by tyrannoman on Nov 11, 2008 8:31 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Neifi

Those would be the two guys I would mention, as well. Good call.

Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.

by Lyle on Nov 11, 2008 11:45 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

That kind of hurts..

Having “career year” and “OPS+ of 81” describing it.

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by WalrusMan on Nov 10, 2008 2:19 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Just looked at his baseball reference page...

He has a game DHing. I Ronnie.

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by WalrusMan on Nov 11, 2008 8:38 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

You forgot to put Vlad on that list… oh wait…

Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil

by SoFa King Mike on Nov 10, 2008 11:48 AM PST   0 recs

*headsplode*

#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Nov 10, 2008 11:52 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I guess when I was first looking at the list I mentally broke it down into groups likes this.

Guys who we got more than we expected out of:
Bengie
Durham (for the most part)
Tomko (because we didn’t pay him anything)
Grissom (His first 2 years were pretty great)
And of those 4, only Bengie can’t really be argued.

Guys who we got what we expected out of:
Aurilia
Matheny (I liked the guy but the injury obviously drops how he’s viewed)
Omar (A very good Giant but great defense and some mediocre hitting is pretty much what we knew we would get)
Tucker
Sanders (and this is generous since his HRs and AVG. dropped off from the previous season and his defense and inability to lay off a high fastball killed us)
Dunston
Rowand (still too early to call)

Guys who crapped the bed
Dave Roberts
Barry Zito
Benitez
Morris
Alfonzo
Davis (just one year but he hit .204)
And we paid a ton of money for most of the guys on that final list

by saveuszito on Nov 10, 2008 12:09 PM PST   0 recs

I dunno

I’d put Tomko, Roberts, and Benitez in “got what we expected” section. Maybe not what Sabean expected, but definitely what I expected. Benitez has never been lights-out, Tomko was always just OK (even if we paid him nothing), and Roberts was an old backup when we signed him.

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Nov 10, 2008 1:07 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

He’s just trying to save his butt after not thinking through his post well enough. That was only a joke saveuszito :)

I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!

by jbowl on Nov 10, 2008 5:20 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I kind of give the Benitez signing a pass. He was the best available option in an area of dire need. With a team built around Alou & Bonds at the age they were at its risk you have to take. I do give full blame however for the front office not cutting their loses when it was obvious he was not working out well here.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Nov 11, 2008 2:19 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

NO

I made a comment in grants latest about evaluation relievers on 1 year of stats. Benitez had a great, great year right before we got him. However, this year was preceeded by about a half dozen years of pain and anguish. Any Mets fan could have told you this.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Nov 11, 2008 10:05 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I am, and was, aware of that.

The point being the Giants were looking at what the Polar Bear or Herpes to close then without him? I am not saying it was a smart move just the front office had put them selves into position of having to take that risk.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!

by daveinexile on Nov 11, 2008 4:57 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Wasn’t Moises Alou a FA signing priot to 2005? How come he was left off the list?

Yes we did!

by Goofus on Nov 10, 2008 1:11 PM PST   0 recs

Bah..

That doesn’t count.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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by WalrusMan on Nov 10, 2008 2:20 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Cause he peed on his hands and that is just gross.

I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!

by jbowl on Nov 10, 2008 5:21 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

What, is that sort of thing frowned upon around here? *furtively wipes hands on someone’s shirt *

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Nov 10, 2008 5:30 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Haha, that was awesome Natto! Unless, wait it was my shirt, gross!

I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!

by jbowl on Nov 10, 2008 5:32 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

HEY!!

That was my favorite N’Sync concert t-shirt!

by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 10, 2008 5:32 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I wanna piss on you, oo ooo.

I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!

by jbowl on Nov 10, 2008 7:52 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Ahhhh...

Good old Los Manos de Pee Pee.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Nov 10, 2008 7:08 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Were you also stunned

to find out that the Giants often wear Orange? I mean, really.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Nov 10, 2008 10:32 PM PST   0 recs

Strongly opposed

The Giants free agent signings that I was strongly opposed to were Neifi Perez, Mike Matheny, Jose Vizcaino, Matt Morris and Barry Zito. I guess the Matheny signing turned out the least offensive (no pun) of those.

To me those were obvious mistakes that I protested heavily at the time. I protested the Matheny signing the least and the Zito signing (because of the dollars involved) the most.

There have been few Giants free agent signings that I liked, but those were the ones I absolutely hated. The ones I liked (and remember) were Sanders, Alfonzo (Oops! I should have questioned the Giants being the only team not to require a physical from Edgardo, but back then I trusted Brian Sabean.), Durham, Cruz and Sweeney.

The signing I have been most wrong about (aside from Alfonzo) was that of Bengie Molina. I didn’t like that signing, feeling that Bengie was already wearing out and would be something of an albatross before his contract expired. Clearly Bengie has worked out much better than I thought — primarily because of his clutch hitting.

Zito is particularly galling — because of the money that was involved and because his peripherals made it so obvious he was slipping a LOT. Even I thought he would do better than he has thus far, but the most I would have paid for Barry was half as much as he got. And I wouldn’t have gone beyond four years, even at $9 million per season instead of $18 million.

I hate to say it, but every time Barry throws a pitch he earned about $5000. Maybe that’s the problem. Instead of thinking about how he will get hitters out, he’s thinking should I throw this pitch and earn $5000 or just take a little breather?

by sharksrog on Nov 11, 2008 12:03 AM PST   0 recs

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