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Are we really that close?

Tiny by HitorMisch on

Thought I would give this a try even though I will probably get ripped for my spelling/grammar and my post will get hijacked within three comments.  Anyways I was reading about the talk of a flexible payroll for the Giants in 2009 and how "GM Brian Sabean has been instructed to present him (Neukom) with several plans to field a competitive team in 2009. (http://blogs.mercurynews.com/extrabaggs/2008/10/07/bill-neukom-articulates-the-giants-way-and-yes-it-includes-a-bit-of-moneyball/)".

My assertation is that even with a big free agent signing and a big trade or two we are at best NL West champions and out in the first round of the playoffs.  I hate to be pessimistic in the offseason but should we really be talking about mortgaging the future (or using up money that could be used to resign Lincecum or Cain) to get a playoff appearance or two.  So what say you McCovenites get rid of some veteran contracts and wait for 2011 to bring Villalona, Posey, Alderson, Bumgarner, and possibly Noonan.  Or should we go for broke next year and hope to bring some winning back to SF.  Possible Hijack idea if my post sucked or if it has been talked about too much...last decent sports movie to come out in theatres.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Perhaps we need a definition for “contending”…

"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott

by victor frankenstein on Oct 9, 2008 6:41 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This!

/ Nods Nods

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Oct 9, 2008 11:02 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Umm..

let’s say we are good enough to win the NL West, what makes you think that auto-means we lose in the first round? The NL West are 9-0 in the last 2 years in the divisional series.

With that said, I don’t think we are winning the division. I think best case scenario is .500 baseball.

proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..

by Azmanz on Oct 8, 2008 9:14 PM PDT   0 recs

also

The playoffs, especially the division series, is so short that anything can happen. Even bad teams go on hot streaks for a week or so.

I agree best case is probably around .500, which probably won’t be enough for the playoffs. However, I’m okay with that for now, since I feel that we are at least moving in the right direction (unlike the past few years).

Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa

by raisingcain on Oct 8, 2008 9:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Si ('Sup Pops!)

The longest journey begins but with a single TRADECAINNOWNOWNOW

Hey , look at that.
Hijacked my own comment.

"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott

by victor frankenstein on Oct 8, 2008 9:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Nope

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.

by groug on Oct 8, 2008 9:15 PM PDT   0 recs

fair point I guess I should of focused a little more on the whole should we try and dump some contracts in order to open money for younger players. I think I was more trying to get a decent fan post under my belt (sorry if I totally missed). I think we are out in the first round because the playoffs need players that can take over a series and while we may the pitching we definately wouldn’t the hitting even with a free agent or two.

by HitorMisch on Oct 8, 2008 9:17 PM PDT   0 recs

Eh...

I honestly have no clue how the Giants will turn out next year but I don’t like the idea of going for broke, because if we fail, we end up broke.

Barry Zito - Mildly half-OK! Sometimes.

by Revolution1 on Oct 8, 2008 9:24 PM PDT   0 recs

Actually

You end up broke either way. You might get a nice shiny pennant to hang somewhere but the talent you spent to get it ain’t coming back.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Oct 9, 2008 1:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I hate to be pessimistic in the offseason but should we really be talking about mortgaging the future

Novel idea: Let’s morgage the past. I’d trade in the great season of 2000 for a good-great team in 2009, I think.

Also, in the real world, do not do anything to potentially harm us in the future in an attempt to contend in 2009.

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.

by thehavenot on Oct 8, 2008 9:30 PM PDT   0 recs

You need to write a book, dude.

by rotorueter on Oct 8, 2008 9:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not sure what to make of this comment

Flippant? Sarcastic? Sincere?

I HAVE NO IDEA!

Hmm. That’s a good book topic…

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.

by thehavenot on Oct 8, 2008 10:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It was for real. You’ve been on fire the last few days.

by rotorueter on Oct 8, 2008 10:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, that's nice to hear

Because I am getting my butt kicked by teaching Middle School

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.

by thehavenot on Oct 9, 2008 12:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you need to write a book because you had a novel idea.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 9, 2008 2:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

you know the dead horse graphic?

I feel like we need something similar for you, but it’s a sound effect, and every time you make a bad pun someone can post it, and it’s just a bunch of people groaning…

Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis

by wjackalope on Oct 9, 2008 3:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

To be fair, I didn’t make the bad pun. Rotoreuter unintentionally made a bad pun and then I was the only one to see it.

I pointed out a bad pun. Totally different.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 9, 2008 3:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Fallacy!

There is no such thing as a bad pun. Just misguided souls that wish to spread misery to those outside Dodger fandumb.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.

by daveinexile on Oct 10, 2008 9:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m thinking we can contend in 2009 without mortgaging the future. I think we need to shore up the bullpen first, but I don’t think that will take breaking the bank. I’m excited by a whole year of Sandoval, Frandsen and Burriss.

Of course, it helps that the west will be weak again.

"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean

by Smotheredinhugs on Oct 8, 2008 9:39 PM PDT   0 recs

Weak west

I’m not entirely sure about that. The Dodgers and Dbacks could both be pretty good next year. They both have extremely talented cores to build around with a bunch of young players who could improve. The Dodgers key will be doling out playing time correctly. The Diamondbacks just need some improvement from their young guys and need to find a 2B.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 8, 2008 9:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

A lot of key Dodgers are going to be free agents though.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Oct 8, 2008 10:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Like?

Lowe, Kent, ….? Chan Ho Park?

The Kemp/Martin/Eithier/Loney/Dewitt core will still be there. Add in Billingsly and Kershaw + Broxton and they are in better shape than we are.

And they’ve got about 60m coming off the books, so expect them to spend big.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Oct 8, 2008 10:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Manny

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear | McFAQ

by Natto on Oct 8, 2008 10:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I wouldn't say..

Manny is key. He was only there for less than half a season, and One of Pierre and Jones will play next year if he isn’t resigned with the money they have left over.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!

by WalrusMan on Oct 9, 2008 12:06 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah… and if they replace Manny with Pierre or Jones that’s a massive dropoff in production.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

by jponry on Oct 9, 2008 7:40 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Furcal is also a FA, and I don’t think any of their SS prospects showed they are ready to assume everyday duty.

On a realated topic, anyone else see the Cubs making a huge run a Furcal? I think they’re going to be desperate to get back to the playoffs, and SS is a position that can be upgraded for the Cubbies.

by tyrannoman on Oct 9, 2008 7:01 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah — or Hu or DeJesus if the Dodgers keep Furcal. Young players who get blocked by free agent signings are a good pool of cheap talent.

by Evan on Oct 9, 2008 7:15 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I wouldn’t say key, necessarily, and they can replace them from within or through FA. DeWitt takes over for Kent, Hu takes over for Furcal/Berroa, and they need to find a 3B (or 2B if they play DeWitt at 3B). Lowe and Maddux are out, Kershaw and McDonald are in, and they need to find a 5th (Elbert if they’re feeling bold). I assume they’ll resign Manny, then they just need to make sure Pierre and Jones ride the bench or get cut/traded.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 8, 2008 10:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m not entirely sure about that. The Dodgers and Dbacks could both be pretty good next year. They both have extremely talented cores to build around with a bunch of young players who could improve. The Dodgers key will be doling out playing time correctly

I also think the Rockies are better then they showed this season. They find a couple serviceable years from starters in the same season and keep their ‘Pen afloat and they will do damage. In fact the only team I seriously consider counting out is the Padres. They look to be going though ownership issues from hell. If they have to trade Peavy for payroll reasons they will be down for a few years.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Oct 9, 2008 11:11 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m excited by a whole year of Sandoval, Frandsen and Burriss.

Yeah, they should be a solid 6/7/8 combination.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Oct 9, 2008 1:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Neukom has a realistic idea of where we are. With something similar to what we have we could be competitive next year, but we probably won’t be contenders. With solid improvement from the youngsters and a few good signings, contending in 2010 is not farfetched.

Now, we could be contenders next if absolutely everything breaks right and absolutely nothing goes wrong. Needless to say, that’s not a very good plan for contending. Hoping everything you do works out and everyone in the West fails to improve is fine for the fans, but the FO needs to not be drinking from that well.

Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Oct 8, 2008 9:52 PM PDT   0 recs

p.s.

This is a completely legit, intelligent question to ask and in no way deserves hijacking. It doesn’t involve trading pitching depth we don’t have or pretending that other team are lining up to give us their cheap young superstars.

Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Oct 8, 2008 9:55 PM PDT   0 recs

this

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 8, 2008 10:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Best First FanPost Ever?

Great screen name btw.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!

by WalrusMan on Oct 8, 2008 10:18 PM PDT   0 recs

I'll vote for that

94 times.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Oct 8, 2008 10:22 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You’re mischtaken.

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
comics | cartoons | Nattowear | McFAQ

by Natto on Oct 8, 2008 10:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh great. I have great mischgivings about the direction this thread is headed.

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.

by thehavenot on Oct 8, 2008 10:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It’s better than standing Pat.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 8, 2008 10:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ooh, taking it a whole new direction

You deserve a Pat on the back.

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.

by thehavenot on Oct 8, 2008 10:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

/starts picking out flowers for Moggee’s funeral

by rotorueter on Oct 8, 2008 11:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

depends on the owner of said butt and who (whom?) is patting

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 8, 2008 11:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

From what I read..

Moggeee suggested that thehavenot was PATting you on the butt. But I suppose if you want to very roughly PAT Moggeee on the butt with a whip for suggesting it you could.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!

by WalrusMan on Oct 9, 2008 12:08 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

who is patting whom?

by paboperfecto on Oct 9, 2008 6:10 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i'll +1 that screen name

genius.

Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Oct 9, 2008 8:17 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

HitOurMisch

would be more accurate.

by Moggeee on Oct 9, 2008 12:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

HitorMisch

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 9, 2008 2:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sure if we get lucky with our trades

There are blocked/undervalued guys all over the place. Gotta find those Carlos Quentins or Volquezs. That link does give me hope for next year though. I am super psyched for this offseason, the playoffs can’t end fast enough!

by superk1ng on Oct 8, 2008 11:13 PM PDT   0 recs

Yes! Yes!! Yes!!!

Hey other teams execute this. Why not us?

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Oct 9, 2008 11:13 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, we're close, but I think we should still see other people.

I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."

by Mayor of 311 on Oct 9, 2008 12:55 AM PDT   0 recs

I think Neukom is not expecting to contend next year, that’s why he used the word competitive. He’ll be happy with a .500 record after the last two seasons. However, I really disagree with your best case scenario. The Giants could win the NL west but not do well in the playoffs?? I don’t think the Giants can win the west next year, but if they did they would scare the shit out of the other teams in the playoffs. Lincecum, Cain and Sanchez going four times in a five game series?? I could see teams that have clinched, playing their regulars everyday the last couple of weeks to avoid playing the Giants.

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on Oct 9, 2008 6:37 AM PDT   0 recs

This

I think that in a playoff short series, the current Giants actually have a great chance of winning.

Playoff baseball is very different from regular season baseball – part of what makes the sport so great.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Oct 9, 2008 7:14 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don’t think there’s any question that the Giants could be contenders if they chose to spend like a drunken sailor in the free agent market. Which is what I would do, but I doubt Neukom agrees.

More realistically, they need to strike a balance between putting a good team on the field in 2009 and building for the future. If you’re terrible year after year—and we’re going on five years now—you lose fans, you lose respect among players and agents, you create a culture of losing. And for the long term, the players already in the organization aren’t going to be enough; they need to be supplemented by outsiders.

by Evan on Oct 9, 2008 7:14 AM PDT   0 recs

Essentially..

You’d basically sign Teixiera, Sabathia, a SS, and maybe a bullpen arm?

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Giant Whiteout I wouldn't go there if I were you.

by WalrusMan on Oct 9, 2008 9:00 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah! Woohoo!

Actually, though, third base is the biggest sore spot on the team, so if I’m really going for it I’d make Beltre a high priority. If I had Beltre, Furcal, and Sabathia, I’d let somebody else sign Teixeira — shouldn’t be too hard to get a decent first baseman at the trade deadline if Ishi/Pablo/Bowker don’t pan out.

by Evan on Oct 9, 2008 9:09 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hillenbrand?

proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..

by Azmanz on Oct 9, 2008 9:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That ship has sailed sunk

Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil

by SoFa King Mike on Oct 9, 2008 9:24 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

BOO

I support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.

by Takimoto on Oct 9, 2008 10:20 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ya gotta like Beltre in a contract year

OPS
2001: .720
2002: .729
2003: .714
2004: 1.017
2005: .716
2006: .792
2007: .802
2008: .784

Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.

by ResDog on Oct 9, 2008 10:49 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

shouldn’t be too hard to get a decent first baseman at the trade deadline if Ishi/Pablo/Bowker don’t pan out

Wait…haven’t you been watching the Giants for the past 4 or 5 decades?

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Giant Whiteout I wouldn't go there if I were you.

by WalrusMan on Oct 9, 2008 11:52 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Meh…

IIF we had the Steinbrenner Budget™ Tex would be the only one of those I would be hot to trot for. I like CC and if the franchise is ready to accept the last half of his contract could look like Zito’s or Hampton’s I would quietly go along. I think Furcal will get too much time on his next contract were he is on the DL.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Oct 9, 2008 11:20 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This seems like a recent phenomenon...

I agree that this was a pretty decent fanpost by Mr. new guy. But what is the deal with all of these posters recently creating a fanpost and then not contributing to the discussion that follows? This seems like a fairly recent thing. I don’t remember this happening very much prior to the last two months or so.

What is the deal with that (said in best comedian voice)

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.

by thehavenot on Oct 9, 2008 2:56 PM PDT   0 recs

Agrees with your post.

Photobucket

My adopted son Matt Downs. Lost in the wilderness of mediocrity.

by nvsfg on Oct 9, 2008 3:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Mandatory rainman-led orientation sessions for new posters, y/n?

by Evan on Oct 9, 2008 3:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes and hell no

RainMan is unique in contributing more replies to his FanPosts than the rest of McCovey combined.

by Moggeee on Oct 9, 2008 9:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

to be honest I thought Id wait and see if I got ripped much…plus I was at work at big brother watches over my computer there

by HitorMisch on Oct 9, 2008 4:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I see

Seems legitimate to me.

;)

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.

by thehavenot on Oct 9, 2008 4:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

NL West is wide OPEN

SF can contend in 2009:

  • Kids will have one more years of experience
  • Sabean plans to address the bullpen
  • Adding a run producing bat (Tex, Burrell, Fielder etc) would have the BMoney’s, Rowand’s etc a spot or two lower in the batting order
  • Having OPB guys like Franny (2nd), Lewis (3rd) in front of the clean-up hitter could only help.

by wilriv21 on Oct 9, 2008 4:24 PM PDT   0 recs

Optimism is a great thing.

It makes your quickly forget what you’ve just witnessed over the last 6 months.

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Oct 9, 2008 5:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Before each season begins we are all contenders

by wilriv21 on Oct 9, 2008 7:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Let me back you up, Wil

If we rented Manny this year instead of the Dodgers, and maybe brought up Pablo a month earlier, we would have been in the playoffs.

C’mon, it’s the NL West, people.

by Moggeee on Oct 9, 2008 9:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Has everyone forgotten that the year before this the NL West was the toughest division in the majors?

Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Oct 9, 2008 8:48 PM PDT to parent up