Quickly....
by Grant on Oct 30, 2008 3:12 PM PDT
149 comments
From S.I.:
I've detected slight trade rumor fatigue around these parts, but I can't sympathize. The offseason is made for dumping out the box of puzzle pieces, getting a cup o' joe, and finding the corner pieces to start things off. Of course, when the Giants dump out their box of puzzle pieces, they'll find two legit pieces, three Parcheesi pieces, a 12-sided die, a bent Professor Plum card, a piece of chewed bubble gum, a rubber band, four Garbage Pail kids, a hair follicle of unknown origin, and a broken Gobot. They probably should have checked the box before they left the garage sale.
I forgot what I was writing about. Point is, I like trade speculation and rumors. Maybe a little too much. I'm still dwelling on Noah Lowry proposals from last offseason. The Giants missed a chance, I'm sure.
The problem with this offseason is that anything the Giants could trade for value is something the Giants would like to keep. It isn't a situation like that of the Rangers, who have 3,253 good catching prospects available in trade. If the Giants trade a pitcher for a hitter, then they'd need to get another pitcher; it's a little Gift of the Magi.
There are two players, though, whom the Giants could trade while retaining a viable backup plan: Bengie Molina and Randy Winn. If the Giants trade Molina, then Pablo Sandoval would start. If the Giants trade Winn, then Nate Schierholtz would start. Neither option is really compelling enough to just donate the veterans for a tax deduction, so there would have to be some value coming back. According to Rotoworld...
Niese is an upper-level starting pitcher, which the Giants could really use, and Murphy is a toolsy, low-strikeout outfielder, which might be a little redundant for the Giants. But I'd take either for Molina. Of course, Rotoworld also wrote this...
...so take whatever they write with a grain or two.
But this all leads to a comment starter: In terms of Giants prospects, what would you expect back for Randy Winn or Bengie Molina? As in, "If the Giants could get back a Nick Noonan-caliber prospect for Molina or Winn..." or, "If it isn't a major league ready power hitter like Pablo Sandoval, forget it..." Have at it.
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I don’t think we have Trade Rumor Fatigue, Grant – just Stupid And Repetitive Trade Rumor Fatigue. When people have posted reasonable speculation, they’ve gotten reasonable response, for the most part.
I wouldn’t mind parting with Winn or Molina, for the right return. They’re both good players, but not personal favorites of mine, or likely to be key cogs in teams that will compete in the future.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on Oct 30, 2008 3:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't knock my free flying pube & my no longer missing professor plum card
Down in Front Meat!
by homerdrew415 on Oct 30, 2008 3:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
OK, own up...
Who started reading the “pimple on the butt of baseball” bit and, at least for a second or two, thought that was a real Rotoworld quote?
Anagram of "Giants pitcher Tim Lincecum" = TENSE, CLIMACTIC, TRIUMPHING
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Oct 30, 2008 3:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure they’ve worked it into a Giants recap at some point in time.
by Natto on Oct 30, 2008 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep!
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Oct 30, 2008 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice try, buddy
*follows link anyway *
by Natto on Oct 31, 2008 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I defintely thought it was real for a second
I see the future, and it is Pablo
by CB30 on Oct 30, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
me
by FairweatherFan on Oct 30, 2008 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, when the Giants dump out their box of puzzle pieces, they’ll find two legit pieces, three Parcheesi pieces, a 12-sided die, a bent Professor Plum card, a piece of chewed bubble gum, a rubber band, four Garbage Pail kids, a hair follicle of unknown origin, and a broken Gobot.
Professor Plum made me LOL. Also, I’ll take Niese, please.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Oct 30, 2008 3:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I see the future, and it is Pablo
by CB30 on Oct 30, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Call me a sceptic but what's so fantabulous about Noonan?
in a purely hypothetical trade, what would Noonan be worth? I’m not saying trade him but what’s his value? If the Giants were trying to trade for Molina, would he be enough to swing the deal? I’d like to think that Molina’s value is high based on production and contract amount. I’d like to think that trading Benji would cost a trading partner at least someone who’s major league ready.
Down in Front Meat!
by homerdrew415 on Oct 30, 2008 3:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A caveat to my own comment
would be if Murphy plays an infield spot, I’d make that deal.
Down in Front Meat!
by homerdrew415 on Oct 30, 2008 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, according to MiLB, he’s a second baseman. A quick look at his statsand I’m interested.
by chilibean_3 on Oct 30, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re a septic!
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
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by WalrusMan on Oct 30, 2008 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should see a doctor about that
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Oct 30, 2008 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dear Rotoworld
"Candlestick made me a man." - Will Clark
by MeSoKrabby on Oct 30, 2008 3:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Quickly? That took me minutes to read! Don’t you have a baby or something?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Oct 30, 2008 3:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You kidding? Right now the work is all on his imaginary wife. It’s kinda specialized that way at first, especially with the new entity feeding every 12 minutes.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
by can of corn on Oct 30, 2008 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every 12 minutes?
Sounds painful.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I swear sometimes it seemed like it. Durn kids.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
by can of corn on Oct 30, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems that there’s a lot of things they don’t tell you about pregnancy and having a kid until it’s too late. The only thing I know is that there is a decent chance the woman poops when she gives birth, which means there is a decent chance that I would laugh my ass off at some point during birth.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That part cracked me up, to be honest. Totally unexpected. But with all the pushing, something interesting is bound to happen. At least the nurses quickly sweep it away. . .
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
by can of corn on Oct 30, 2008 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least chicken was not eaten shortly beforehand…
by Lars The Wanderer on Oct 30, 2008 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/puts up Gallagher styled plastic sheeting in delivery room
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Oct 31, 2008 5:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet they sweep it away quickly, that’s in everyone’s best interests.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are several websites and blogs out there where mothers share their experiences of childbirth, and I’m so glad I have read them. I have even less reason to procreate after reading that.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 31, 2008 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH MY GOD WHICH ONE IS THE BABY AND WHICH IS THE POOP!!!
This is going to be my reaction when I become a father. Stupid babies, looking like big waxy balls of poop.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Oct 31, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Newborn babies all look like Winston Churchill
by Lars The Wanderer on Oct 31, 2008 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When my son was being delivered, I warned the ex, “You poop and I’m outta herre.”
She didn’t poop, so I guess it worked.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Oct 31, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
THey also poop every 12 minutes, though, and that’s fair game for the father.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on Oct 30, 2008 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
During labor?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Oct 30, 2008 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm..
Maybe that works out alright for grant. Every 12 minutes.
Or maybe not. I’ve never seen anyone breastfeed so *shrugs *.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Oct 30, 2008 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Murphy isn't toolsy actually
He has a very good, very advanced hitting approach. He seems to know exactly what he wants to do with a pitch. Pitches that he can’t drive, he will foul away. And has decent power.
His problem is D. And David Wright. He is absolutely blocked by Wright. And he really isn’t any kind of 2b. Even at 3b, his D is never going to be good.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Oct 30, 2008 3:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Looks like they are trying pretty hard to find a position for him. He played 32 games in LF for the Mets, played pretty bad defense at thrid in the minors. The man can hit, just needs to find a position.
by chilibean_3 on Oct 30, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, basically, he's ideally a 3b.
Probably above average offensively, below average defensively. In total, average, or maybe slightly above average at 3rd.
But Wright is there. So they played him in LF, and are trying him at 2b, though they are saying that they consider him a LF.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Oct 30, 2008 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not uggla then...
hes proven offensive with bad deffense and he fills a position of need (2b)
by cazzuno on Oct 31, 2008 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Uggla
would probably cost more to acquire than Murphy.
The Marlins probably want a lot in return for Uggla, with the year he had. If you’re trading Cain for Uggla, I don’t see much of a point.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 1, 2008 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has a very good, very advanced hitting approach. He seems to know exactly what he wants to do with a pitch. Pitches that he can’t drive, he will foul away. And has decent power.
sounds a lot like the way Gillaspie gets described.
by BigO on Oct 30, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if we trade either Molina or Winn won’t we be lacking in the veteren savyness department? We will have to rely on Rowand to produce more of this, which will probably hurt his already declining defense and ability to hit a 88mph fastball. I vote no, unless we get someone really good, then we can try to rely on rookie scrappyness.
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Oct 30, 2008 3:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Frandsen has all the scrappy you need.
by chilibean_3 on Oct 30, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind we’ll still have Dave Roberts. He’ll provide more than enough savvy to go around.
by Natto on Oct 30, 2008 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And hes got the Old Fashioned savvy you dont see around anymore
I see the future, and it is Pablo
by CB30 on Oct 30, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rowand too. Although what he provides is more gamery and less savvy.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although what he provides is more gamery gamey ( dude sweats ) and less savvy
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
by jbowl on Oct 30, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
…dude sweats blood.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Oct 30, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fax over the papers now, Omar
I’d prefer Niese though personally.
by NeifiChicken on Oct 30, 2008 3:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
does anybody know
why mets fans are so down on Mike Carp now?
Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Oct 30, 2008 4:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Without looking into it one bit, I’m going to guess it’s because Mets fans are fucking morons. The good news for me is, even if Carp sucks, I’m right. BULLY!
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is my question, is keeping molina and winn around better in the end since both will probably profile as type a free agents?
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
by jbowl on Oct 30, 2008 4:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
you think so?
now that they’ve changed the criteria wouldn’t they have to at least repeat their 08 seasons for them to be type A? Actually, would Molina even qualify based on this year’s stats?
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Oct 30, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Borderline type A, we dont know if they wil have as good a year next year as they did this year
I see the future, and it is Pablo
by CB30 on Oct 30, 2008 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know what the criteria is for sure, but you would think that winn would for sure, or does he not have a high enough ops?
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
by jbowl on Oct 30, 2008 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I have no idea if ops is even looked at, that was just a general stat I picked.
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
by jbowl on Oct 30, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the past, they’ve weighted defense very heavily (see Pedro Feliz rating as a Type A). I don’t know if that’s changed, but if it hasn’t it’s good news for Winn.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Benjie as well right? Benjie decent with the glove work behind the dish right? And he threw runners out a good pace.
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
by jbowl on Oct 30, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no clue how they quantify catcher defense.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feliz, as a 3b
was ranked with 3b, 2b and SS. Relative to SS, and even 2b, Feliz’ offense doesn’t look so bad.
Winn, as an OF, is going to be ranked with CF, corner OFs, and 1b.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 1, 2008 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They group those together? Yikes, I already knew it was a shitty system but this really drives it home.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Nov 1, 2008 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s more of a question of comparing what we’d get now with what we’d get in three or four years. I’d be okay with getting someone who’s closer to the majors in return, instead of getting someone who could reach the majors in three or four years (or so).
Personally, I think Molina and Winn are the best players we have available that we should actually look to trade. They’re considered valuable commodities, they’re essentially replaceable by us (even if the replacements don’t play up to par with them), and we don’t sacrifice our future by trading them.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Oct 30, 2008 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is my question, is keeping molina and winn around better in the end
I think where you keep them might be a personal preference thing. Are you trying to smuggle them into prison or something?
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Oct 31, 2008 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winn and Molina's value for 2009 is veteran leadership, and
whatever draft picks come back from their departure after the 2009 season. However, if the Giants feel they can upgrade the infield offense now by trading them this offseason, given the relative weakness of the NL West, Sabean may jump at a chance to do so.
But I wouldn’t stop there, and would focus first on finding out if there was any real substance to those Rowand-for-Matsui rumblings last week, because moving Rowand’s 4/$48 million in exchange for a far shorter cash commitment to Matsui helps them so much more, if they want to also kick the tires on a FA pickup.
The Mets want catching and also a closer. The Cubs want an outfielder like Winn, but I can’t remember Winn’s no-trade list. And if I remember correctly, one of the Chicago teams was also interested in Taschner as well. If I were Sabean, I would find out from Minaya exactly how bad he would like Molina and Brian Wilson, and how badly Hendry would like Winn and Taschner, at the same time I seriously consider doing whatever it takes to move Rowand next week to get me more payroll flexibility.
Doing all that and keeping Sanchez/Sosa or Sanchez/Martinez free for middle infield help (Hardy) would be welcome.
NO, we're not trading Matt Cain! What's that you say? We are? Armageddon is upon us!
by Buck Henry on Oct 30, 2008 4:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Minaya will sign Chad Cordero to plug into the bullpen.
by Natto on Oct 30, 2008 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you think he would do that?
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 1, 2008 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m just speculating because when he was the Expos, Minaya drafted Cordero.
by Natto on Nov 1, 2008 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rowand/Matsui...
Not going to happen. Matsui likes New York and has a no trade clause. He’d want an extension if he gets traded somewhere else, as he’s probably going to retire at the end of the season.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Oct 30, 2008 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would he want an extension if he’s going to retire?
by kaliber on Oct 31, 2008 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't want to just be traded..
And retire the year after. If he gets traded he’ll want to play a few years in that city and retire there.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Oct 31, 2008 5:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points WalrusMan, so if
Matsui isn’t a good angle, what other teams would be even remotely interested in Rowand?
NO, we're not trading Matt Cain! What's that you say? We are? Armageddon is upon us!
by Buck Henry on Oct 31, 2008 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
matsui would be 5 hrs closer to home and would provide an ichiro part duex presence in Asian rich Bay…i think he would waive no clause to play here
by cazzuno on Oct 31, 2008 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m against trading for 1 year of Matsui, unless the Yankees would take on Rowand’s bill, which is highly unlikely.
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Oct 31, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just for fun
Remember the Matsui for Sanchez rumors last off-season?
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Oct 31, 2008 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All too well.
Sanchez for previously refurbished players was a mainstay all last winter.
Yeah, I’m looking at you Crede.
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Oct 31, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Mets want pitching
much more than they want catching. Both starting and relief pitching. At the point, their starting rotation is Santana, Pelfrey, Maine coming off a shoulder injury that he concealed from the trainers until it got too painful, and Niese. They need one more decent starter at the very least.
The fantasy that Minaya is desperate for Molina is just that, a wishcasting fantasy.
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524
by rfloh on Nov 1, 2008 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last night I started a new season on baseball mogul, I tried to trade Zito for Zach Grienke and the computer Dayton Moore made me laugh with his “my job makes me want to cry” response so I offered Rich Aurillia, Zito and cash and he still wanted to cry.
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
by jbowl on Oct 30, 2008 4:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Is baseball Mogul free?, I want to try it but i dont want to pay anything
I see the future, and it is Pablo
by CB30 on Oct 30, 2008 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only the old, old versions are free. More recent ones are about 20 bucks.
by Natto on Oct 30, 2008 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh ok
thats not that bad,
I see the future, and it is Pablo
by CB30 on Oct 30, 2008 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well worth the money.
Depends if you want to play on the offseason, but the new version usually comes out late spring training/opening day.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Oct 30, 2008 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just balance the cash..
And then add all the players Sabean’s already stupidly signed.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Oct 30, 2008 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tried cash balancing and he still didnt like it, so then i picked the counter offer and he asked for juggernat, the enchanter and cain. It was retarded, since he was asking for a back up 3b thats why I offered Richie.
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
by jbowl on Oct 30, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Zito’s contract, I wonder if you actually had the resources available to adequately balance the cash.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Oct 30, 2008 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya i did in 2009 they give over 100 million for a budget.
I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!
by jbowl on Oct 30, 2008 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's the Toys R Us Time of Year...
The day the World Series ends is the beginning of Giants Fan Christmas Season for me, and the internets is my virtual Christmas tree that I like to check every half hour or so, in hopes that Santabean (please do not pronounce it “Santa Bean”; it’s “San-TAY-be-an”) brought me just what I wanted this year.
Unfortunately, Santabean is like the old uncle who used to always get you something imaginative and cool, but who now suffers from advancing dementia and tends to keep buying you the same exact gift over and over again, like a sweater in child size 12, even though you’re now 37 years old, or a bottle of Mennen Skin Bracer, even though you’re a woman. It’s all so sad, like Aunt Bethany packing her cat as a Christmas present.
It’s worse, really, because nowadays we find out that what Santabean has actually done is, gone through your belongings, found your Blackberry/touch-screen phone, and traded it in for a used Kodak Instamatic camera with the 4-way flash bulbs.
So I’ll be hiding under the bed until March.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Oct 30, 2008 5:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
o/" By Mennen
o/" Costanza
Ralph Barbieri, heal thyself.
by ThrillisGone22 on Oct 30, 2008 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn pastrami, always ringing!
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Oct 31, 2008 5:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well done, Tobias!
Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.
by Lyle on Oct 31, 2008 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I usually have a pretty good idea of what I would like to see the Giants do during the offseason. This year? Not so much…
I know everyone is bitching about not winning yet, but I thought this last season was pretty fun. The losing sucks (and will always suck), but at least I got the feeling that the team was going in the right direction at last. Maybe the direction wasn’t the intent of management, but they were finally forced to do something that they either couldn’t do or didn’t want to do in previous years. Play the youngsters.
At this point, I just hope they don’t mess things up.
by Lars The Wanderer on Oct 30, 2008 5:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I Don't Get It!
If we keep Bengie and let him go to free agency next off season (while offering him arbitration) we most likely get a late 1st round draft choice and a supplemental 1st round draft choice. How would getting either Niese or Murphy and losing a year of Molina be a better deal for the Giants? This idea seems crazy to me.
by giantsrainman on Oct 30, 2008 6:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Less risk with Niese than with a draft choice.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Giants Last Bottom Half 1st Rounder Was Alderson
and the last supplemental was Gollispie. Would you really trade these two for Niese or Murphy? To me it would be a close call to trade these two for both Niese and Murphy.
by giantsrainman on Oct 30, 2008 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Giants last bottom half 1st rounder was Fairley, actually. And I would probably trade him and Gillaspie for Niese and Murphy.
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by groug on Oct 30, 2008 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not True
Fairley was drafted in 2006 while Alderson was drafted in 2007. Both were second half first rounders.
by giantsrainman on Oct 30, 2008 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by groug on Oct 30, 2008 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, My Mistake Fariley Was Our Second Late 1st Rounder In 2007
not drafted in 2006. I think Fairley was a pure “potential” draft the Giants felt they could risk after already drafting Bumgardner and Alderson. This is not the type of pick I think they would be making in this case.
But I do see your point. I would indeed trade Fairley for either Niese or Murphy. But still overall I would prefer the likelyhood of another Alderson to either.
by giantsrainman on Oct 30, 2008 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that’s the idea of reducing your risk. You’re taking a much more known quantity (Niese) instead of the unknown of getting something between very good and very bad.
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by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
However good Alderson and Gillaspie are..
They’re still way down there. Alderson was in A+ and Gillaspie will probably be in A+ this year, if that. Neither are sure shots at all.
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by WalrusMan on Oct 30, 2008 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Think Both Will Be In AA This Year
and there is no way I would trade either for Niese or Murphy.
by giantsrainman on Oct 30, 2008 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rainman is correct
I wouldn’t trade either Alderson and Gillaspie for Niese or Murphy. In fact, I wouldn’t trade either for BOTH of them. But then, I’m weird that way.
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by Lyle on Oct 31, 2008 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but....
The difference is that Niese could make an impact now, whereas a 2009 draft choice wouldn’t be available till 2011 by the earliest (most likely, at least). This team already has two solid starters in Cain and Lincecum (with Sanchez on the cusp), and two great young prospects in Alderson and Bumgarner. But, Niese would add great pitching depth and can help sooner than Alderson or Bumgarner.
by Squire_Boone on Oct 30, 2008 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if we offer him arbitration and he accepts?
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by The Thrill on Oct 30, 2008 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He Will Get At Least 2 Year Offers
No way to I see him accepting arbitration.
by giantsrainman on Oct 30, 2008 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of agree with..
Dustin here. I don’t think that he would accept arbitration from us, unless he has a really bad season. And in that case we would just release him. Molina probably will be looking for a 2 year offer, or a 3 year (lower money, i could see this happening). If he has a good year, then he’ll get some good offers on the free agent market. He won’t accept one year of arbitration just to blow one last big payday.
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by WalrusMan on Oct 30, 2008 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would Winn get better offers as well? I like our chances of getting the draft picks I think.
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by jbowl on Oct 30, 2008 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure about Winn..
He really seems to like it here too. Molina has expressed a, how would I put it, not good feelings towards us. Especially last year not being the starting catcher as much. Winn seems to like the city and the fans like him.
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by WalrusMan on Oct 31, 2008 5:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd trade for Niese
The Giants could probably use a pitcher like Niese, especially considering that the organization’s starting pitching depth (outside the lower minors) is quite weak. Niese could step into the rotation as a solid fifth starter, at least for 2009.
If the Giants were to trade Molina, then they could potentially sign a catcher like Michael Barret (or some other veteran catcher) to help Pablo transition to the position full time next year.
In my opinion, the bottom line is that getting Niese for Molina is a pretty good deal, especially considering that there is no guarantee that we will get something better for him next year (or for a draft pick).
by Squire_Boone on Oct 30, 2008 11:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I Totally Agree with This
While I wouldn’t mind getting Murphy for Molina, we currenly have 3.25 starting pitchers (Sanchez = 0.75 and Zito = 0.5). Correia and Hennessey are gone. We need at least two more starting pitchers (both could be #5 types, AAAA guys that give us innings) to get us through next season. And if we do get those guys, we suddenly have pitching depth where we could trade a guy like Sanchez for a bat. If Sanchez starts strong again next season, he’s going to generate a lot of interest on the trade market. He’s sufficiently high-upside that we could get a corner bat or a real second baseman. But to make that trade we need pitching depth, which – as SqBoone says – is non-existent, in terms of ML-ready pitchers.
Also, the obsession with the draft – in terms of comp picks for Molina/Winn – is somewhat puzzling. Outside of the top five-ten, not even half the first-rounders make the majors. Ever. Let alone be productive bench players. The odds that the comp pick we’d get turns out to be the middle of the order we need are slim. I think it’s much better to deal in known quantities that give us roster flexibility in the present. Niese probably helps the team next season – Murphy almost certainly does – and both fill holes on our current roster with young, cheap players that enable us to get creative and make moves going forward. Waiting for comp picks (especially when they’re not guaranteed to be given to us) limits our roster flexibility, fixes none of our current problems, delays the next winning season and lessens the likelihood that CainCecum pitch for a winner in SF.
by cornball on Oct 31, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade ’em for bats. Ideally infield bats, but definitely bats.
This team currently has two excellent young starting pitchers, an intriguing young starting pitcher, and a guy who’s not going anywhere; it also has, quite possibly, the best pitching prospect in baseball, plus another very good one. We don’t need to be worrying about developing pitchers right now. I’m not saying we have SP depth — we absolutely don’t — but it’s like not we need to get something going in the rotation. The rotation’s the only thing that’s going. Not to mention that adequate starting pitching has become the easiest thing to acquire in free agency, and that we’ve historically shown a real knack for drafting solid pitching. You don’t need five sexy young pitchers… three will do. WE DO NOT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT PITCHING RIGHT NOW.
This year’s draft was great, but even with it, the offensive cupboard is still pretty bare. Let’s move Winn and Molina for hitting prospects if at all possible. We need to give ourselves a shot at an offense at some point.
by onlxn on Oct 31, 2008 12:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Your post fails to say...
Anything about a 5th starter option. Noah Lowry is no sure thing to come back and be able to pitch. Perhaps he can come back and pitch, but if he’s horrible, can you afford to have two Zito level starters at your back end?
Adequate starting pitching has become the easiest thing to acquire? Perhaps easy, but do you want to be paying 3/$7+ to a below average pitcher? Because that’s probably what the cost and results would be for any pitcher you sign. Unless you go all CC on us.
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by WalrusMan on Oct 31, 2008 5:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The last thing a rebuilding team needs to worry about is their fifth starter. Teams can and often do win the World Series without a decent fifth starter. Meanwhile, WE DON’T HAVE AN INFIELD.
We’re set one through four, and there are a bunch of slot-fillers we could get for $2M for a year. There is absolutely no reason for this team to prioritize pitching right now.
by onlxn on Oct 31, 2008 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We’re set one through four, and there are a bunch of slot-fillers we could get for $2M for a year. There is absolutely no reason for this team to prioritize pitching right now.
We’re set one through two, we have a question mark in three, and we have a $126 million piece of crap in four.
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by groug on Oct 31, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A bunch of slot-fillers?
For $2 million? You’re kidding me. Those slot-fillers in the pitching market are getting 2-3 year deals of $5-$10 million. You either get lucky with a cheap major league minimum starter who gives you average production, or you’re getting a 6.00+ ERA out of that starter. If you’re looking at slot-fillers (innings eaters) you’re looking at 2-3/5-10.
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by WalrusMan on Oct 31, 2008 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re not thinking of the right class of pitchers. I don’t mean “slot-filler” in the sense of “league-average innings-eater”… I mean “guy who starts those games so nobody else has to”. Shawn Chacon/Matt Clement/Matt Belisle/Mark Redman types. Those guys do cost $2 million for a year. Will they suck? Yeah, probably, but so what? We’re gonna fret about our fifth starter, when we have a D-plus offense?
A good fifth starter is something you strive for when you want to cement your chances of winning your division. We are, to say the least, not in that position. We need to keep building up the offensive talent level above all else.
by onlxn on Nov 1, 2008 4:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
You add good players wherever you can. Yes we need offense, but that shouldn’t preclude us from improving other areas of the team if the price is right.
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by marcello on Nov 1, 2008 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Infield bats would be the ideal, but if someone offers me a good young pitcher — Jon Niese being a perfect I-can-almost-see-that-happening example — for either of those guys, I’m leaping at it. Get as much young talent into the organization as possible and sort it out down the road.
The other way to go would be to try to trade them for good vets at positions where our need is dire — Beltre, Hardy, blah blah blah — and try to actually compete this year.
by Evan on Oct 31, 2008 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure — young talent for Winn/Molina is worth doing, no matter the position. But if we’re targeting, we should be targeting bats. The goal should be to put a credible team together while we still have Lincecum and Cain, and offense is the way to do that.
by onlxn on Oct 31, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I did just have an idea..
We’re basically set for starting pitching prospects in the low minors. We’ve got Lincecum/Cain/Sanchez/Zito in the rotation. We need a 5th starter. Perhaps that’s a free agent. Perhaps it’s Misch. Perhaps it’s Correia re-signed. One person I haven’t heard anything about is Hammond, who we acquired from Milwaukee for Durham. Could he be a 5th starter going into the year? Or is he best being the 6th starter waiting in AAA?
He seems to have had some good seasons in the low minors, but has had trouble adjusting to the upper minors.
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by WalrusMan on Oct 31, 2008 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
5th starter
I’m alright with a free agent signing or going by committee with guys in the minors who probably deserve at least a look – guys like Misch (which would be a 2nd, 3rd or 4th look), Joe Martinez, Brooks McNiven, or Garrett Broshuis.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 31, 2008 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s certainly no point in trading them for scraps, and you’ve got to consider the possible draft pick compensation as well. But i’d be willing to trade either, or both, if you could get something good in return. What classifies as good is i guess, the question, and i’d say Murphy & Niese are around the level at which you’re looking.
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by GiantFan on Oct 31, 2008 4:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What is our 2009 payroll situation?
I don’t think swapping Molina or Winn for useful spare parts is a great move. We have lots of useful spare parts, and they will probably be worth compensatory picks next year. Plus holding them and deadline swapping them isn’t the worst idea. I think, unless you really swindle someone you are better off just taking the picks.
Teams needs for 2009 are big hitters and solid relievers. Ain’t no way we are going to get a .900 OPS guy for either or both… but I be we could get some quality relief pitching for the 7th/8th innings.
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by zenbitz on Oct 31, 2008 9:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I demure this point.
I see the needs of the ‘09 team as still shifting through and filling some more of the many holes. It’s a side effect of playing the Vets as much as possible tell August. Yea for prolonged agony and misery.
Thus solid above A ball help for a couple spots that are hemorrhaging ( see most of the infield) would be darn good. I don’t care if they do well and take free agency a couple years or so down the road..
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by daveinexile on Oct 31, 2008 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
freaks of the industry
Should we
a) trade molina, winn and let sandy and schierholtz play
b) trade neither and have two 34 yr olds suck more playing time from youngsters (even though they are top 2-3 hitter in current lineup)
c) play them out till trade deadline and then ship them both for talent
My vote goes to keep both. Put Sandy at 1b and Schierholtz as 4th OF, and then trade them both at the deadline for infield help. Especially if Posey is ready (a-la lincecum 2007) to take over/share C duties.
by cazzuno on Oct 31, 2008 10:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If we trade Sandoval before he plays a full year in the majors, I may have to weep.
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by jcb9 on Oct 31, 2008 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think cazz’s suggestion was to trade Molina and Winn at the deadline.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Oct 31, 2008 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade everyone under 30!
damn kids
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by j14 on Oct 31, 2008 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Posey is starting the season at AA with Decker
as his manager, ostensibly to get him through the system as quickly as possible. This is consistent with Neukom’s desire to get the team’s best prospects fast-tracked. As such, perhaps their strategy going into next week’s GM meeting is to treat Molina and Winn differently.
If they get a good offer for Molina, they may very well move him now and go with Pablo and Holm in 2009, and then deal with the Pablo vs. Posey choice at C in 2010, knowing they may have a need to place Pablo at another position that year. But this would require them to get an infield run-producer this offseason instead of relying upon Pablo at 1B or 3B.
With Winn however, they may prefer to hold him at least until the deadline given Lewis’s uncertain recovery timeline and the possibility that Rowand may be shopped. And even then, another year or two of Winn at $8-9 million per is still a relative bargain for his defense, BA, and base-stealing. Plus, as others have said, Winn likes it here whereas Molina may be ready for a change of scenery.
I would much rather they focus initially at next week’s meeting on resolving the Molina and Rowand situations first before they do something about Winn or send away their young pitching. The FA market doesn’t appear to help them that much at their positions of need, plus the big ticket names wouldn’t come here anyway. That may argue for them to focus on trades instead.
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by Buck Henry on Oct 31, 2008 11:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
the trouble with trying to deal Rowand and holding Winn until the deadline is that you are liable to have low leverage in both cases: Dealing Gamer now would be selling low, and it’s not likely that Winn’s value is going to climb from where it is now.
by BigO on Oct 31, 2008 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understood about selling low on Rowand,
but do you really think there will be any improvement in his defense, or his offense if they don’t get a big bat this offseason? We very well may have seen the best of Rowand we are going to see. I’d listen to any and all offers for him next week.
And Winn’s value may not necessarily go down between now and the end of 2009. He’s several years from any real decline.
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by Buck Henry on Oct 31, 2008 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe it’s wishful thinking, but I do expect Rowand to improve, at least in the field. This doesn’t mean you don’t listen if there are offers – only Lincecum escapes this – especially if the Yanks get all hot over his gamerish gamerism. I suppose it also makes sense to deal him on this low if you just need the cash/position for someone else – guess I wouldn’t be too upset if they just “cleared the contract”, as long as someone else paid for all of it.
With Winn, I’ve definitely been wrong before, but it just seems to me that there is a much better chance that he will regress than improve over the first 3 months of the season. Of course, he could go on one his crazy tears, like in 2005.
by BigO on Oct 31, 2008 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and who will play center if rowand is gone…winn (prob not) lewis (only one left)
by cazzuno on Oct 31, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ideally, this would be the case,
which is why they should deal with any Rowand possibilities first.
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by Buck Henry on Oct 31, 2008 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winn should be playing in CF in the first place. *shakes fist at Sabean *
by Natto on Oct 31, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holm..
I actually like the kid. I can see him being a starter one day. Al-bait as one of the bottom third in the rankings, but I think the guy will be able to hit enough to possibly be a starter.
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by WalrusMan on Oct 31, 2008 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just the type of thing to do
I would think trading Bengie Molina for a prospect such as Niese or Murphy is just the type of deal the Giants should make.
Regarding Randy Winn, Randy has been a second-half player. It would seem that a contending team would realize that and be motivated to trade for him at the trade deadline. But that didn’t happen this year, so I’m not sure if the other teams didn’t like him enough regardless, if they didn’t realize he has been a second-half player (hard to believe, but not impossible, I suppose), if they realized he has been a second-half player but didn’t want to count on it in 2008, or if the Giants were just asking for too much for anyone to pay it.
As you said, Grant, no need to trade either player for the sake of doing so. I think both are capable major leaguers and fine clubhouse presences. But as you also mentioned, they are standing in the way of younger players and don’t figure in the Giants’ future.
I guess my dream would be for the Giants to be able to package the two for a high-level prospect, but that probably is unlikely. I wouldn’t trade them for the sake of it, but I would certainly be looking closely at offers.
by sharksrog on Oct 31, 2008 12:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think I'd do more than just listen to offers
I think you’ve got to shop them pretty aggressively.
Perhaps my intuition is mistaken, but I get the impression that Sabean has been far too passive on the trade market in recent years. Either that, or other GM’s have gotten tired of his (to quote a recent baseball book) dry-humping and no longer take his offers seriously.
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by Bhaakon on Oct 31, 2008 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea..
I’d put their names out there as people you’d like to trade, but only if you got value for them. A, hey, make an offer for him type of deal. I’m not quite sure how this would sit with the players though if they are not traded.
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by WalrusMan on Oct 31, 2008 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rangers are now accepting offers for Blalock
in their desire for starting pitching. Their mlb.com correspondent says today they would first have to exercise the $6.2 million option on Blalock for 2009 before moving him, and we already know that his ability to play 3B is questionable. Yet we know the guy can still hit, and is slotted by them to play 1B for them in 2009.
The same correspondent says that if the Rangers wanted either Cain or Sanchez, they would have to give up Chris Davis, their highly-sought corner infielder who would be a great fit for the Giants. Giving up Cain is a nonstarter for me, but if I could get Davis for Sanchez, I’d do that immediately, even if I had to throw in Taschner to get it done.
Alternately, if the Giants wanted to hold onto Sanchez and Cain and thought they could afford to take a chance on Blalock for 1B next year, they could move Molina for Niese next week, and then deal him for Blalock, thereby filling 1B without it costing them Cain or Sanchez.
Or, we could make the Molina deal, and send Sanchez and Niese with Taschner for Davis. In essence, you’d be trading one year of Bengie and Sanchez for exactly the power hitting corner infielder we need. It may seem like a lot for Davis, but we’ve got Pablo for C and would still have Caincecum, Joe Martinez for the Sanchez slot, and could pray that Lowry makes it back for a couple of years until Alderson/Bumgarner are here.
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by Buck Henry on Oct 31, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely agree on Sanchez + Tasch for Davis. I would make that deal in a heartbeat. We’d get a 1b, middle-of-the-order bat and would instantly have the flexibility to trade Molina without any worries.
by cornball on Oct 31, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take Murphy and another
All he did this year was hit. I guess the Mets are looking for a place to get Murphy’s bat in the lineup so they have him learning 2B in the AFL. I doubt he can stick there, but I’d be cool with bringing him in and finding out if he can stick at OF. He played LF for the Mets in his cup-o-tea and did well for himself. He would give us more pretext to trade Winn as we wouldn’t just be handing the job to Schierholtz. And if his bat is hot along with Schierholtz’s he can play some 1B.
I know some people will point towards his bat getting killed in our park, but he seems like more of a gap hitter to me anyway. He has a little speed too swiping 71% over his 3 minor league seasons.
I definitely agree that we would need compensation for the supplemental pick lost.
I think I pulled my swagger muscle...
by BawLa on Oct 31, 2008 3:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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