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Grant_tiny by Grant on

From S.I.:

The Mets are considering whether to try to upgrade at catcher in addition to their goal of improving the bullpen (that's the first priority), the rotation and possibly the outfield. Second base is of lesser consideration. As for catcher, they've discussed the Giants' Bengie Molina.

I've detected slight trade rumor fatigue around these parts, but I can't sympathize. The offseason is made for dumping out the box of puzzle pieces, getting a cup o' joe, and finding the corner pieces to start things off. Of course, when the Giants dump out their box of puzzle pieces, they'll find two legit pieces, three Parcheesi pieces, a 12-sided die, a bent Professor Plum card, a piece of chewed bubble gum, a rubber band, four Garbage Pail kids, a hair follicle of unknown origin, and a broken Gobot. They probably should have checked the box before they left the garage sale.

I forgot what I was writing about. Point is, I like trade speculation and rumors. Maybe a little too much. I'm still dwelling on Noah Lowry proposals from last offseason. The Giants missed a chance, I'm sure.

The problem with this offseason is that anything the Giants could trade for value is something the Giants would like to keep. It isn't a situation like that of the Rangers, who have 3,253 good catching prospects available in trade. If the Giants trade a pitcher for a hitter, then they'd need to get another pitcher; it's a little Gift of the Magi.

There are two players, though, whom the Giants could trade while retaining a viable backup plan: Bengie Molina and Randy Winn. If the Giants trade Molina, then Pablo Sandoval would start. If the Giants trade Winn, then Nate Schierholtz would start. Neither option is really compelling enough to just donate the veterans for a tax deduction, so there would have to be some value coming back. According to Rotoworld...

...it'd cost the Mets either Jon Niese or Daniel Murphy and more to get (Bengie Molina)...

Niese is an upper-level starting pitcher, which the Giants could really use, and Murphy is a toolsy, low-strikeout outfielder, which might be a little redundant for the Giants. But I'd take either for Molina. Of course, Rotoworld also wrote this...

...the Giants' organization is a pimple on the butt of baseball, and their fans are stupid morons with ugly faces and big butts, and their butts smell, and they like to kiss their own butt...

...so take whatever they write with a grain or two.

But this all leads to a comment starter: In terms of Giants prospects, what would you expect back for Randy Winn or Bengie Molina? As in, "If the Giants could get back a Nick Noonan-caliber prospect for Molina or Winn..." or, "If it isn't a major league ready power hitter like Pablo Sandoval, forget it..." Have at it.

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I don’t think we have Trade Rumor Fatigue, Grant – just Stupid And Repetitive Trade Rumor Fatigue. When people have posted reasonable speculation, they’ve gotten reasonable response, for the most part.

I wouldn’t mind parting with Winn or Molina, for the right return. They’re both good players, but not personal favorites of mine, or likely to be key cogs in teams that will compete in the future.

What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC

by jcb9 on Oct 30, 2008 3:20 PM PDT   0 recs

OK, own up...

Who started reading the “pimple on the butt of baseball” bit and, at least for a second or two, thought that was a real Rotoworld quote?

Anagram of "Giants pitcher Tim Lincecum" = TENSE, CLIMACTIC, TRIUMPHING

by Stuttering John Tamargo on Oct 30, 2008 3:32 PM PDT   0 recs

I’m pretty sure they’ve worked it into a Giants recap at some point in time.

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Oct 30, 2008 3:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep!

Found it.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Oct 30, 2008 8:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Nice try, buddy

*follows link anyway *

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Oct 31, 2008 12:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yea..

Kinda a RushRoll, but awesome anyway people.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Oct 31, 2008 5:40 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I defintely thought it was real for a second

I see the future, and it is Pablo

by CB30 on Oct 30, 2008 4:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Of course, when the Giants dump out their box of puzzle pieces, they’ll find two legit pieces, three Parcheesi pieces, a 12-sided die, a bent Professor Plum card, a piece of chewed bubble gum, a rubber band, four Garbage Pail kids, a hair follicle of unknown origin, and a broken Gobot.

Professor Plum made me LOL. Also, I’ll take Niese, please.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Oct 30, 2008 3:32 PM PDT   0 recs

agreed

I see the future, and it is Pablo

by CB30 on Oct 30, 2008 4:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Call me a sceptic but what's so fantabulous about Noonan?

in a purely hypothetical trade, what would Noonan be worth? I’m not saying trade him but what’s his value? If the Giants were trying to trade for Molina, would he be enough to swing the deal? I’d like to think that Molina’s value is high based on production and contract amount. I’d like to think that trading Benji would cost a trading partner at least someone who’s major league ready.

Down in Front Meat!

by homerdrew415 on Oct 30, 2008 3:33 PM PDT   0 recs

A caveat to my own comment

would be if Murphy plays an infield spot, I’d make that deal.

Down in Front Meat!

by homerdrew415 on Oct 30, 2008 3:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah

dude played a lot of 3b in the minors

by BigO on Oct 30, 2008 3:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, according to MiLB, he’s a second baseman. A quick look at his statsand I’m interested.

by chilibean_3 on Oct 30, 2008 3:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You’re a septic!

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Oct 30, 2008 8:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You should see a doctor about that

Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil

by SoFa King Mike on Oct 30, 2008 8:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Dear Rotoworld

"Candlestick made me a man." - Will Clark

by MeSoKrabby on Oct 30, 2008 3:39 PM PDT   0 recs

Quickly? That took me minutes to read! Don’t you have a baby or something?

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 30, 2008 3:46 PM PDT   0 recs

You kidding? Right now the work is all on his imaginary wife. It’s kinda specialized that way at first, especially with the new entity feeding every 12 minutes.

It's my blarg! Quick Pitch

by can of corn on Oct 30, 2008 3:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Every 12 minutes?

Sounds painful.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 4:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I swear sometimes it seemed like it. Durn kids.

It's my blarg! Quick Pitch

by can of corn on Oct 30, 2008 4:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It seems that there’s a lot of things they don’t tell you about pregnancy and having a kid until it’s too late. The only thing I know is that there is a decent chance the woman poops when she gives birth, which means there is a decent chance that I would laugh my ass off at some point during birth.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 5:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That part cracked me up, to be honest. Totally unexpected. But with all the pushing, something interesting is bound to happen. At least the nurses quickly sweep it away. . .

It's my blarg! Quick Pitch

by can of corn on Oct 30, 2008 6:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

At least chicken was not eaten shortly beforehand…

by Lars The Wanderer on Oct 30, 2008 6:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

/puts up Gallagher styled plastic sheeting in delivery room

#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Oct 31, 2008 5:54 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I bet they sweep it away quickly, that’s in everyone’s best interests.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 6:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

There are several websites and blogs out there where mothers share their experiences of childbirth, and I’m so glad I have read them. I have even less reason to procreate after reading that.

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 31, 2008 11:12 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

OH MY GOD WHICH ONE IS THE BABY AND WHICH IS THE POOP!!!

This is going to be my reaction when I become a father. Stupid babies, looking like big waxy balls of poop.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 31, 2008 11:59 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Newborn babies all look like Winston Churchill

by Lars The Wanderer on Oct 31, 2008 12:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

When my son was being delivered, I warned the ex, “You poop and I’m outta herre.”

She didn’t poop, so I guess it worked.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Oct 31, 2008 11:34 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ex?

Well, she didn’t work but it still didn’t work.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Oct 31, 2008 8:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

THey also poop every 12 minutes, though, and that’s fair game for the father.

What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC

by jcb9 on Oct 30, 2008 4:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

During labor?

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Oct 30, 2008 8:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmm..

Maybe that works out alright for grant. Every 12 minutes.

Or maybe not. I’ve never seen anyone breastfeed so *shrugs *.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Oct 30, 2008 8:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Murphy isn't toolsy actually

He has a very good, very advanced hitting approach. He seems to know exactly what he wants to do with a pitch. Pitches that he can’t drive, he will foul away. And has decent power.

His problem is D. And David Wright. He is absolutely blocked by Wright. And he really isn’t any kind of 2b. Even at 3b, his D is never going to be good.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Oct 30, 2008 3:51 PM PDT   0 recs

Looks like they are trying pretty hard to find a position for him. He played 32 games in LF for the Mets, played pretty bad defense at thrid in the minors. The man can hit, just needs to find a position.

by chilibean_3 on Oct 30, 2008 3:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, basically, he's ideally a 3b.

Probably above average offensively, below average defensively. In total, average, or maybe slightly above average at 3rd.

But Wright is there. So they played him in LF, and are trying him at 2b, though they are saying that they consider him a LF.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Oct 30, 2008 5:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

why not uggla then...

hes proven offensive with bad deffense and he fills a position of need (2b)

by cazzuno on Oct 31, 2008 10:33 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, Uggla

would probably cost more to acquire than Murphy.

The Marlins probably want a lot in return for Uggla, with the year he had. If you’re trading Cain for Uggla, I don’t see much of a point.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Nov 1, 2008 12:38 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He has a very good, very advanced hitting approach. He seems to know exactly what he wants to do with a pitch. Pitches that he can’t drive, he will foul away. And has decent power.

sounds a lot like the way Gillaspie gets described.

by BigO on Oct 30, 2008 4:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

But if we trade either Molina or Winn won’t we be lacking in the veteren savyness department? We will have to rely on Rowand to produce more of this, which will probably hurt his already declining defense and ability to hit a 88mph fastball. I vote no, unless we get someone really good, then we can try to rely on rookie scrappyness.

Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

by WilliamVanLandingham on Oct 30, 2008 3:54 PM PDT   0 recs

Kevin Frandsen has all the scrappy you need.

by chilibean_3 on Oct 30, 2008 3:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Keep in mind we’ll still have Dave Roberts. He’ll provide more than enough savvy to go around.

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Oct 30, 2008 4:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

And hes got the Old Fashioned savvy you dont see around anymore

I see the future, and it is Pablo

by CB30 on Oct 30, 2008 4:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Rowand too. Although what he provides is more gamery and less savvy.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 4:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Although what he provides is more gamery gamey ( dude sweats ) and less savvy

I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!

by jbowl on Oct 30, 2008 4:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

…dude sweats blood.

They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long

by bgunn on Oct 30, 2008 4:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Fax over the papers now, Omar

I’d prefer Niese though personally.

Do you Wazzel?

by NeifiChicken on Oct 30, 2008 3:58 PM PDT   0 recs

does anybody know

why mets fans are so down on Mike Carp now?

Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Oct 30, 2008 4:02 PM PDT   0 recs

Without looking into it one bit, I’m going to guess it’s because Mets fans are fucking morons. The good news for me is, even if Carp sucks, I’m right. BULLY!

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 4:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Here is my question, is keeping molina and winn around better in the end since both will probably profile as type a free agents?

I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!

by jbowl on Oct 30, 2008 4:08 PM PDT   0 recs

you think so?

now that they’ve changed the criteria wouldn’t they have to at least repeat their 08 seasons for them to be type A? Actually, would Molina even qualify based on this year’s stats?

"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."

by i did my job on Oct 30, 2008 4:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Borderline type A, we dont know if they wil have as good a year next year as they did this year

I see the future, and it is Pablo

by CB30 on Oct 30, 2008 4:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I dont know what the criteria is for sure, but you would think that winn would for sure, or does he not have a high enough ops?

I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!

by jbowl on Oct 30, 2008 4:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

And I have no idea if ops is even looked at, that was just a general stat I picked.

I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!

by jbowl on Oct 30, 2008 4:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

In the past, they’ve weighted defense very heavily (see Pedro Feliz rating as a Type A). I don’t know if that’s changed, but if it hasn’t it’s good news for Winn.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 4:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Benjie as well right? Benjie decent with the glove work behind the dish right? And he threw runners out a good pace.

I'm young but i didn't fall off the truck yesterday!

by jbowl on Oct 30, 2008 4:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I have no clue how they quantify catcher defense.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Oct 30, 2008 4:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Feliz, as a 3b

was ranked with 3b, 2b and SS. Relative to SS, and even 2b, Feliz’ offense doesn’t look so bad.

Winn, as an OF, is going to be ranked with CF, corner OFs, and 1b.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Nov 1, 2008 12:41 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

They group those together? Yikes, I already knew it was a shitty system but this really drives it home.

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Nov 1, 2008 11:54 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It’s more of a question of comparing what we’d get now with what we’d get in three or four years. I’d be okay with getting someone who’s closer to the majors in return, instead of getting someone who could reach the majors in three or four years (or so).

Personally, I think Molina and Winn are the best players we have available that we should actually look to trade. They’re considered valuable commodities, they’re essentially replaceable by us (even if the replacements don’t play up to par with them), and we don’t sacrifice our future by trading them.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Oct 30, 2008 4:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Here is my question, is keeping molina and winn around better in the end

I think where you keep them might be a personal preference thing. Are you trying to smuggle them into prison or something?

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Oct 31, 2008 11:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Winn and Molina's value for 2009 is veteran leadership, and

whatever draft picks come back from their departure after the 2009 season. However, if the Giants feel they can upgrade the infield offense now by trading them this offseason, given the relative weakness of the NL West, Sabean may jump at a chance to do so.

But I wouldn’t stop there, and would focus first on finding out if there was any real substance to those Rowand-for-Matsui rumblings last week, because moving Rowand’s 4/$48 million in exchange for a far shorter cash commitment to Matsui helps them so much more, if they want to also kick the tires on a FA pickup.

The Mets want catching and also a closer. The Cubs want an outfielder like Winn, but I can’t remember Winn’s no-trade list. And if I remember correctly, one of the Chicago teams was also interested in Taschner as well. If I were Sabean, I would find out from Minaya exactly how bad he would like Molina and Brian Wilson, and how badly Hendry would like Winn and Taschner, at the same time I seriously consider doing whatever it takes to move Rowand next week to get me more payroll flexibility.

Doing all that and keeping Sanchez/Sosa or Sanchez/Martinez free for middle infield help (Hardy) would be welcome.

NO, we're not trading Matt Cain! What's that you say? We are? Armageddon is upon us!

by Buck Henry on Oct 30, 2008 4:48 PM PDT   0 recs

Minaya will sign Chad Cordero to plug into the bullpen.

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Oct 30, 2008 5:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Why do you think he would do that?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Nov 1, 2008 12:45 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m just speculating because when he was the Expos, Minaya drafted Cordero.

There amass been plenty of articles written this spring about the stud shortstop Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum , as well as the fluid young outfielders and thirteen basemen Kevin Frandsen.
comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Nov 1, 2008 12:58 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The Rowand/Matsui...

Not going to happen. Matsui likes New York and has a no trade clause. He’d want an extension if he gets traded somewhere else, as he’s probably going to retire at the end of the season.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Oct 30, 2008 8:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Why would he want an extension if he’s going to retire?

by kaliber on Oct 31, 2008 12:34 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs