San Francisco Giants Offseason Outlook
Over at The Outsiders Look I am in the midst of a team-by-team series which looks at what I would do if I were running a Major League franchise. A recent installment has me looking at the San Francisco Giants, a team that is shooting up baseball's team prospect list.
The 2009 season, in my opinion, should be similar to what the Indians were doing in 2006-essentially holding season long tryouts for the following year. While some of the stones have begun to fall into place, the Giants could use another season to ensure they have the right idea on the likes of Schierholtz and Sandoval.
Additionally, the 2009 season is a good chance for the Giants to take a shot at some Major Leaguers looking to rehab their images. Wily Mo Pena, is a player I advocate bringing aboard and allowing the still youthful slugger a fulltime gig.
Check out what I've written and let me know what you would do I you were running the Giants. Keep in mind, this is not what you expect the Giants to do, rather, what you would do. Also, keep the ideas reasonable (ie. no Ishikawa for Pujols+cash trades).
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Fred Lewis?!?!
F___ Mike Marshall!!!
by NuschlerFace on
Oct 20, 2008 10:16 AM PDT
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Clearly you’re from out of town since nobody here would consider benching fred lewis.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on
Oct 20, 2008 10:17 AM PDT
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Your proposed lineup frightens and confuses me:
SS – Emmanuel Burriss
RF – Nate Schierholtz
CF – Aaron Rowand
C – Pablo Sandoval
3B – Hank Blalock
LF – Wily Mo Pena
1B – Travis Ishikawa
2B – Eugenio Velez
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 10:19 AM PDT
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How so?
Keep the following in mind:
The 2009 season, in my opinion, should be similar to what the Indians were doing in 2006-essentially holding season long tryouts for the following year. While some of the stones have begun to fall into place, the Giants could use another season to ensure they have the right idea on the likes of Schierholtz and Sandoval.
There’s a whole lot of potential with the lineup I put together. All low risk, high reward scenario’s.
By the way, I hate having Rowand in the lineup, without him, things would look much nicer.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 10:25 AM PDT
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I’m not a believer in Velez and no way Texas doesn’t pick up Hank’s option after his resurgence. You don’t let a 120 OPS+ hitter walk over $6.2M.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 10:31 AM PDT
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I’ll add, I’m fine with your premise of using the season as a way to audition Nate. I’m also fine with trading Winn and Molina if you can get good value for them, if you can’t do that, hold onto them and really try to trade them at the deadline*
*I hate making this argument because it seems over the last few years every crackpot internet poster dealing with the Giants makes this claim. Remember when people were saying that if only we COULD HANG ONTO RUSS ORTIZ AND DEAL HIM AT THE TRADING DEADLINE FOR VALUE! It doesn’t really fit with the Giants MO.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 10:34 AM PDT
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Yea...
You are right regarding Blalock.
Crede is a fine alternative.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:06 PM PDT
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If the Giants sign Crede, I will vomit with rage.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:07 PM PDT
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I’m not a big fan of players who have serious injury problems and also aren’t very good.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:10 PM PDT
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Nearly a .200 ISO
That would be the most fearsome hitter the Giants have.
The injury is somewhat concerning, but until I hear that he won’t be back for the 2009 season, I’ll give him a shot.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:15 PM PDT
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I ain’t a stats geek, but when I look at a guy who plays an offensive position, is 30+, and has only posted an OPS+ above 100 once in his career in a full season, I’m not that impressed.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:16 PM PDT
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Nicely said.
If he was Super Cheap enough I, personally, could make an exception. Boras is his agent so we know how likely that is.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 12:18 PM PDT
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okay then...
who do you bring in?
keep in mind, we’re talking a guy who would be willing to sign for 2 years and would presumably pack an OPS over .750.
ops+ is a terribly flawed statistic.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:21 PM PDT
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Is he really willing to sign for 2-years? His agent is Boras, who I’m sure will be gunning for the biggest deal available.
And, again, enlighten me to why OPS+ is flawed. I’ll take your answer off-air.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 12:23 PM PDT
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The only reason most people say OPS+ is flawed is because it undervalues OBP… which would not help Crede in anyway so I don’t know.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:27 PM PDT
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144 games
In the last two seasons…
You think Boras is stupid enough to try and get Crede to sign a long term deal? Boras is the KING of rehab contracts. Something Crede is in a perfect situation to sign.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:27 PM PDT
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I’m not really impressed with any of the options, which is why I’m tempted by the idea of putting Sandoval at third for now, with Frandsen as a backup plan. Doesn’t look like that’s the direction Sabean’s going, though.
Adrian Beltre is probably the best of a bad set of options, depending on what the Mariners want in return.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:23 PM PDT
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Beltre...
How is he superior to Crede?
Offensively it is essentially a wash, while the contract is ridiculous!
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:30 PM PDT
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Beltre in away games, 2008: .292/.349/.512
Beltre in away games, 2005-2007: .287/.338/.503
Crede in away games, 2008: .237/.293/.382
Crede in away games, 2005-2007: .259/.295/.438
And Beltre’s more durable and it’s my impression he’s better defensively, though I’m not really sure of that.
This is starting to remind me of a conversation with GRM.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:35 PM PDT
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Beltre – $11.5M in contract for 2009 + prospects
Crede – presumably half the price + 0 prospects
Durability
Yes, Beltre has it on that. However, you do know he just had fairly major surgery. Typically hands and shoulders don’t heal well.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:37 PM PDT
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Crede also is probably going to have to be a 2 or 3 year commitment, at least.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:40 PM PDT
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I truly Doubt that...
Boras isn’t stupid. Unless he was looking for a 2 or 3 year deal worth about $5M a year whether Crede was healthy or hurt. It doesn’t make sense for Boras to try and get Crede a 2 or 3 year deal, when the 2nd and 3rd years he will be being paid an amount reflective of a season in which he played 97 games.
GMs, for the most part, aren’t stupid.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:45 PM PDT
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GMs, for the most part, aren’t stupid.
Let me introduce you to Mr. " I am Not an Idiot " Sabean.
Besdies which no one said you make the trade not matter what. It was just stipulated Beltre would be the best player availible.
As for cost figure Crede stays on the field for about 700 innings next season and should hit in the bottom of the order. Unless he is getting paid un 4MM why the hell should the Giants want him?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 12:50 PM PDT
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haha
‘for the most part’
;)
I envision Crede signing a 1yr deal worth between $3.5M and $5.5M, with some incentives.
I also see him as a #5/6 hitter.
The Giants would want him predominantly to keep the seat warm.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 1:04 PM PDT
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See below about him as a hart of the order hitter. If you expect him to be able to hit there and not be Pedroesque you are setting yourself up for hart ache.
I personally am not sure he can take the field for over 500 innings without breaking down completely. Bochy does not seem to believe in resting vet’s much or even pacing there use. But even at 4.5 MM ( split the difference) for about 700 innings why not say 9MM is worth about 1400 innings of keeping a seat warm with out tying up a second roster slot? Through 3 MM on top of that and you have guy that is legit middle of the order bat without having to tie up a third roster slot?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 1:17 PM PDT
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Guy #1: Beltre isn’t a better hitter than Crede!
Guy #2: Here’s some pretty strong evidence that he is.
Guy #3: … Beltre will probably cost more!
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:41 PM PDT
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Really...
Where’s guy #2’s evidence?
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:46 PM PDT
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Do us a favor, next time you want to come in and spam your site — which seems to be poorly put together — at least be nicer to talk to. We won’t think you’re as much of a dick if you do.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 12:47 PM PDT
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Sorry
I wasn’t meaning to be rude. I was legitimately wondering where the evidence was? Could you point out when I wasn’t talking nicely though?
Also, I’m not trying to ‘spam’ my site, I was truly trying to get the input from Giants fans.
Lastly, thanks for the bash. What can I do to make it better?
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:52 PM PDT
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Regardless of your feelings about OPS+ (and like I said, I ain’t a stats geek so I’m not qualified to argue about that), I think it’s pretty safe to say that, when you have two players, and one of them is better in almost every offensive category in away games than the other over the course of four seasons, that’s evidence that one is probably better than the other.
That was sort of a tortured sentence.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:54 PM PDT
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Beltre v. Crede?
I’ll re-hash what I’ve been saying…
Beltre can be the superior hitter and fielder. I see the hitting as a wash, but clearly there is an argument in the other direction. The fielding is clearly in Beltre’s favor, but we’re not talking the difference between Derek Jeter and Omar Vizquel here.
We are also talking at nearly twice the cost. Yes Beltre will most likely net draft picks, but he is also going to ‘cost’ prospects to bring aboard. The trade off will most likely be a wash.
So, for twice the money the Giants can bring in a player that will be marginally superior-if really at all.
The big thing I see in Beltre’s favor is how he performed during his last contract year. If the Giants could squeeze that out of him, it might be the better move to make. Otherwise, I think we’re talking about a very similar player at twice the cost.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 1:02 PM PDT
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They’re not similar players at all, really, but the point about the cost it’ll take to acquire Beltre is a good one. If the cost is, in fact, prohibitive, I’d rather not acquire either of them, to be honest.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 1:04 PM PDT
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agree to disagree
beltre’s 4yr WSP – .487
crede’s ‘healthy’ WSP – .493
there are statistics for each argument. i’m fine with your side of the argument. however, ‘if healthy’, i don’t see crede as being half the player beltre is.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 1:08 PM PDT
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And thus we come full circle, to the basic opinion I expressed in the first place.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:09 PM PDT
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http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2008/10/20/638832/san-francisco-giants-offse#9484905
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2008/10/20/638832/san-francisco-giants-offse#9484764
Guy #2 = jponry
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Oct 20, 2008 12:50 PM PDT
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So THAT’S what she said….
Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.
by Lyle on
Oct 20, 2008 1:28 PM PDT
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It’s a one year deal, for starters, and it’s not ridiculous at all. With defense added in, it’s a very fair one year deal for Beltre.
Why not take a look at this spreadsheet by Chris Dial, for example, measuring the Offensive+Defensive contributions of every player in the AL.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p9BODtOllD4u0JrhtbUmILA&gid=1
Beltre: +9.1 runs on offense, +14.8 runs on defense, total: +23.89 runs (17th in the AL overall)
Crede: -2.2 runs on offense, +3.91 runs on defense, total: +1.67 runs
how is that in any way a “wash”? In addition, as Beltre is on only a one year deal and will certainly be a type A free agent after 2009, he would possibly net the Giants two picks.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:36 PM PDT
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$11.5M isn't ridiculous?
How good would a 8 man offensive team of Adrian Beltre’s be? 60-70 wins? At a cost of $92M.
That’s not overpriced?
I’ll have to look into that document some more. According to THT’s win shares, Beltre is WAAAAAY outside the top 20. For VORP, he’s 49th.
I’d like to see how a statistic bumps him up that high.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:42 PM PDT
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VORP blows man
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/fixing_vorp/
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
P.S. I Love Matt Cain. but only hetero-ly
by baetown415 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:43 PM PDT
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That's Why...
I also cited win shares…
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:48 PM PDT
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do you know if THT changed their Win Shares template yet?
because bossman studes said earlier this year they were working on changing the offensive component of their Win Shares from Runs Created to David Smyth’s BaseRuns
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
P.S. I Love Matt Cain. but only hetero-ly
by baetown415 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:51 PM PDT
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Looking at win shares, the fact that they give Alex Gordon the same number of defensive win shares as Beltre leads me to believe they aren’t very good either.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:51 PM PDT
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err...
that’s kinda like backward thinking mr. jponry….
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
P.S. I Love Matt Cain. but only hetero-ly
by baetown415 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:52 PM PDT
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lol “mr.”
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:54 PM PDT
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WAIT UR A GIRL
NO WAY
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 12:55 PM PDT
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oh
whoops
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
P.S. I Love Matt Cain. but only hetero-ly
by baetown415 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:55 PM PDT
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We’ve established several times that all women on the internet are actually dudes. Also, women aren’t capable of understanding sports, so again, obviously a dude. Q.E.D.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:55 PM PDT
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We all know that
jponry, BVCE, TK, can of corn, Igotnothing = dudes.
Also, xanthan = spambot.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Oct 20, 2008 12:58 PM PDT
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SPAMBOT
MY FAVORITE FLAVOR OF YABU IS (YABU) COME VISIT MY SITE FOR FREE RINGTONES
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 12:59 PM PDT
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Also, guys on the Internet never get girlfriends, let alone wives, so at the East Bay MCC gathering, xanthan and I obviously hired prostitutes to pretend to be our wives.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:00 PM PDT
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ok ok ok
my apologies
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
P.S. I Love Matt Cain. but only hetero-ly
by baetown415 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:00 PM PDT
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How did you explain that to your mom when you left the basement?
by Natto on
Oct 20, 2008 1:01 PM PDT
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Um, shit.
I mean DELOREAN and I hired prostitutes to pretend to be our wives. Not xanthan and I.
Xanthan wasn’t there – and besides, everyone knows his wife is a computer, too. Perhaps some kind of Amiga.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:15 PM PDT
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My wife is a TANDY, get it right, pal.
And what you and Delorean do with hookers is none of our business!
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:17 PM PDT
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My family’s first computer was a Tandon, which is often confused with Tandy. So we’re practically related.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:19 PM PDT
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lol at Tandon
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:20 PM PDT
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To be fair, this was circa 1987.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:20 PM PDT
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I dunno..
No Pics no Proof man.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:19 PM PDT
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I will MSPAINT some renditions of the day.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:20 PM PDT
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No need, there's already video available
http://failblog.org/2008/10/20/best-man-fail/
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:21 PM PDT
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Holy crap, is that real?
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:23 PM PDT
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We can only hope and pray that it is.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:24 PM PDT
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Anyway, my only point is that win shares aren’t very good at quantifying defense in general.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:54 PM PDT
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is there...
any defensive metrics that are even close to 100% accurate? we are certainly getting closer, but i’m not sure we are at a point where we can close the book on them.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 1:18 PM PDT
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no, but I think most play by play metrics are superior to ones that aren’t.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 1:19 PM PDT
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Beat me to it
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Oct 20, 2008 1:21 PM PDT
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But is there any argument for using WS over play by play stats?
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Oct 20, 2008 1:20 PM PDT
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Sure, Cookyman, when it makes your point.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:21 PM PDT
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+/- and RZR have Beltran as a much better fielder, and those stats are based on play by play data. WS is a Bill James stat right? His defensive stats are horrible.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Oct 20, 2008 12:56 PM PDT
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Yeah, I’m still not entirely sure how defensive WS are calculated but i’m pretty sure it’s not pbp.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:56 PM PDT
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tht's WS
are based on bill james’ but not exactly the same.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 1:18 PM PDT
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btw
what’s your replacement level at in terms of team wins?
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
P.S. I Love Matt Cain. but only hetero-ly
by baetown415 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:44 PM PDT
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DEFENSE.
You know what, just go read this:
http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/14/a-eulogy-for-adrian/
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:45 PM PDT
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All right you have enough of what ever it is you added to your coffee for a bit.
Offensively it is essentially a wash, while the contract is ridiculous!
1 year 12MM for a guy that has 2677 Plate Appearances in the hart of the order. He plays in a home park the kills him and has played more then 1k inning for each of the last 10 years is so comparable to a guy that plays in a box, has hit a total of 142 Plate Appearances in the hart of the order and has not played over 1K innings a season since 2006. At this point Crede can’t hold Beltre’s dirty jock.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 12:43 PM PDT
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so now...
you are punishing crede because he is on a vastly superior team? it’s not as if the mariners truly have had any other options while beltre has been in town, so how are you rewarding him for having a lot of plate appearances in the middle of a terrible batting order?
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:50 PM PDT
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Ohg yes each and every year he was ona bette squad then beltre. Enjoying your inflatible straw man action there?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 12:52 PM PDT
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?
I’m confused…
Beltre has been with the Mariners since 2005. At which point he has been in competition with Sexson and Ibanez alone to bat in the heart of the order.
By comparison, since that same time, Crede has had Konerko, Dye, and Thome/Thomas to fight with for ‘heart’ plate appearances…
Who would you say has had the tougher path to hitting in the heart?
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:56 PM PDT
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Sarcasm aside
You remove his 71 Hart of the Order PA’s from 06 and he has Career averages a bit under 9 PA’s a year from the hart of the order for the rest of his career ( 8 seasons). It is not like he has not had the chance to hit there. Its he does not have the skill to support hitting there. People get hurt, had slumps, rest days etc. If he was merely not hitting in the hart of the order because the White Sox were stacked Crede would still get more then 9 PA ‘s a year there just filling in.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 1:09 PM PDT
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and...
some managers don’t like to fiddle with their lineups everytime a hitter is out. guillen, being the headcase, ex-player, that he is, presumably wouldn’t move crede from a spot in the order because of konerko’s ‘off day’.
let’s also remember that this is the same guillen who had podsednik leading off in 2007 despite a .299 obp.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 1:12 PM PDT
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Amusing but not relevant
If Crede was really just shaded out of the hart of the order he would: A) have more then 9PA’s a season there and B) Has not been tapped to tie there much at all outside of ‘06 for a reason.
If you can’t account for A) and B) you have no logical reason to expect something differnt then what is usage patterns show. So far you haven’t account for either A) or B).
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 1:23 PM PDT
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still not sure
i follow…
sorry.
i just don’t see how a players usage on two separate teams can be compared. it would be like saying that juan pierre is a legitimate top of the order hitter simply because 91% of the games he has played have come from either the #1 or #2 slot.
i will, however, agree that crede is not the giants long term (or short term) solution at the #3 or #4 hole. but at #5 or #6, at a ‘rehab’ discount. not a terrible idea.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 1:33 PM PDT
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Those numbers are for #3,#4 & #5 spots. I lifted them Crede’s page at B-R.
The numbers pretty much show he can’t handle any of those 3 slots and is not trusted with them almost under most any circumstances. If he was he would have more the 71 PA’s there over the 8 other seasons he has played.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 1:53 PM PDT
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Dear God, man
it’s HEART of the order.
/puts down knife, walks away muttering/
Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.
by Lyle on
Oct 20, 2008 1:33 PM PDT
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Maybe dave is just a big fan of Stu Hart and his family.
by Natto on
Oct 20, 2008 1:37 PM PDT
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This thread has definitely reminded me of a dungeon at times.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:38 PM PDT
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I’m pretty sure someone called someone “nugget” at some point in time too.
by Natto on
Oct 20, 2008 1:46 PM PDT
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Ouch man..
That must have hart.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:39 PM PDT
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sorry...
i just can’t comprehend how you are comparing player usage on different teams. unless of course you are going to argue that because pierre has spent his career as a leadoff hitter, he is subsequently a good one?
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 1:41 PM PDT
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Obviously I am Captain Typo today. Sorry about that. I’ll resume hangin’ with Handy Boy from In Living Color now.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 1:53 PM PDT
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and a get a reply failure to Lyle to top it off.
perfect.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 1:55 PM PDT
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You cite OPS as a reason to sign someone and then immediately say OPS+ is a flawed statistic?
Really?
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on
Oct 20, 2008 12:23 PM PDT
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Um, MAVERICK!
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 12:25 PM PDT
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I can see VORP from my house.
Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.
by Lyle on
Oct 20, 2008 1:34 PM PDT
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OPS+
Actually punishes hitters for hitting in favorable environments. It also assumes that all parks are equal to each hitter.
The use of OPS is simply a generic explanation.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:26 PM PDT
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OPS+ is park adjusted, so you don’t believe in park factors? We should weight Matt Holiday and Brian Giles the same way?
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 12:27 PM PDT
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Yes/No
OPS+ is park adjusted in a way…It states that park X is a hitters park and boosts the hitters numbers. However, it doesn’t take into account WHICH hitters it boosts.
Take GAB for example. By definition a ‘hitters park’. However, it is a substantially superior ballpark for lefties, then it is for righties. However, by OPS+’s definition, the park is equally as favorable.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:32 PM PDT
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And I’ll pass.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:17 PM PDT
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I will lick up your vomit rage, and then vomit it back up into delorean’s mouth!
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 12:12 PM PDT
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This sounds like the makings of the worst fake user yet.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:14 PM PDT
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Why?
Why do I see so many people (including the Giants) wanting to bat Nate Schierholtz high in the lineup? He’s not an OBP guy. I like Nate and hope he gets to start next season, but to me he’s a #6 hitter — #7 on a good-hitting team.
Nate should post a good average, but with few walks and not as much power as one would like.
by sharksrog on
Oct 24, 2008 12:46 AM PDT
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i’d take a flyer on Wily Mo, but not if it meant sitting Frederick.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on
Oct 20, 2008 10:22 AM PDT
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RE: Fred Lewis
He had a surprisingly strong second half in 2008, however, between him, Schierholtz, and Rowand, you would be looking at the lightest hitting outfield in the majors. At bats would be there for him, but I would prefer to see some power develop with the system.
Also, with a 26.5% k rate, his contact skills are fairly weak. Lewis had an 18.4% line drive rate, which translates to an expected BABIP of slightly under .300. In 2008 he was at .367. While it would be unreasonable to simply calculate his BABIP down to .300, even a 20-30 point drop would have a substantial impact on his OBP (dropping him down to around .330).
So, where does a 28 year old with a .330 OBP and .750 OPS hit? How much potential does he truly have?
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 10:23 AM PDT
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Yeah, them contact skills are pretty weak. We should replace him with a hitter that makes even worse contact!
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 10:25 AM PDT
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Notice
How contact rate is only part of my rationale.
I also mentioned power. Wily Mo has a much greater power ceiling then Lewis. For a team without a legitimate power threat, Pena is the ideal fit as he is young enough to improve and had a weak season in which should keep his price tag down.
In Lewis, the Giants can AT BEST expect him to be Randy Winn. That’s not a terrible thing, but now you’re looking at an outfield for the next 5 years that will produce a combined 30-40 home runs a year.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 11:54 AM PDT
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If Lewis turns into Randy Winn we would all be very, very happy.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 12:01 PM PDT
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I want some of this Kool Aid Please!
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 12:01 PM PDT
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He’s already comparable to Winn in terms of OPS and acting abilities!
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:02 PM PDT
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Needs to upgrade to a better GPS unit though so his routes are less wander-ful.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 12:04 PM PDT
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is it that big of a leap?
Randy Winn and his career .771 OPS.
If people truly do not think Lewis is that caliber of a player, I can’t comprehend how there is an argument for not having him in the starting lineup.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:03 PM PDT
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Another thing to consider is a lot of Lewis extra base(s) ability on a hit is due to his speed. His wheels were not good ( bunions) the last part of the year and he still did well. So there is a logically reason to think you are selling low on Lewis at this point.
As for Pena if, and only if, they were thinking of using him as a 5th outfielder and part time 1st baseman hitting mainly vs. LHP I could be fine with that kind of a flier. But considering he has never played 1st in the MLB I am defiantly "Meh" about him.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 12:29 PM PDT
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the uptick
his legs would give him stretching out xbh’s will presumably be docked with a -.030 in BABIP.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 1:20 PM PDT
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I presume you are saying you think his current BABIP is unstable and thus will fall about 30 points to be in line with the MLB medain?
Forgive me if I am presuming wrong here and ignore the rest of this post. Something else for you to consider is a player with exceptional speed who keeps his speed along a steady ratio of line drives and ground balls to fly balls along with should be able to out perform the league wide median. To my knowledge this theory has not been disproved any were but if you know differently please provide a link so I can attempt to learn. The Upshot being if you are counting on a full 30 point drop in BABIP you might be badly mistaken.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 21, 2008 8:45 AM PDT
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So, where does a 28 year old with a .330 OBP and .750 OPS hit? How much potential does he truly have?
OK, but you want to bench him for a 27 year old with a career .307 OBP and a .753 OPS, all from hitter’s parks. And Lewis probably plays better defense, too.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Oct 20, 2008 10:31 AM PDT
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Defense
I’ve got Pena situated in left field. Even if he is the worst fielder in the league, he’s only going to cost two wins over the best fielding left fielder.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 11:56 AM PDT
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According to +/-
The difference between Manny Ramirez and Eric Byrnes was 5 wins in 2007.
My point is that Lewis is basically better than Pena in almost every way – contact, on base, defense, baserunning. Pena does have better power potential, but the odds of him ever reaching that potential look very small.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Oct 20, 2008 12:24 PM PDT
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i can't argue that...
however, are the giants going to win with lewis? that is, is he an OFer that would be starting on a winning team, even if he hits as good as he can (ie 2008)?
conversely, pena has the ‘tools’ to be a dynamic outfielder. a very strong #5 hitter for a power starved franchise. consider that at age 25 he has played in the equivalent of 3.5 MLB seasons. how would you be looking at him if he was a 25 year old coming off of a rookie season?
let’s also keep in mind that i’m not ttalking about kicking lewis to the curb. but let’s be fair, he’ll never be much more then a #4 outfielder. what harm does it do to a building franchise to give a guy with a high ceiling a shot?
or, how is this. the marlins went out on a limb and gave jorge cantu a shot. a ‘young’ ballplayer who had shown flashes at a young age but then failed to make it. his risk, minimal, the reward, extraordinary. certainly the marlins could have gone with helms as the fulltime 3b, but why?
the thing is, if (or when) pena fails, the giants move on. they give lewis the fulltime job. however, if (or when) pena’s light comes on, and it happens for another team, all the giants gained was an additional seasons worth of at bats for a guy who isn’t more then a 4th outfielder.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 1:28 PM PDT
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however, are the giants going to win with lewis?
Nope, but they aren’t going to win with Pena, either.
or, how is this. the marlins went out on a limb and gave jorge cantu a shot. a ‘young’ ballplayer who had shown flashes at a young age but then failed to make it. his risk, minimal, the reward, extraordinary. certainly the marlins could have gone with helms as the fulltime 3b, but why?
The Marlins had an opening at 3B, the Giants don’t have an opening in the OF right now.
I advocate the Giants giving Cantu player-types at positions that they need help with. LF wasn’t a problem for the Giants last year, so why bounce one of our few productive players for the power potential of Pena? If there was a Pena equivalent at 3B or 2B floating around right now, the Giants should take it. What they shouldn’t do is bounce Lewis.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:33 PM PDT
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They most likely will not, the same way that Cantu didn’t turn the Marlins into winners. However, they got a player for little that turned out to be something. I bet at the time you chalked it up to a nothing pick up. Pena COULD be the same way.
As for an opening, the Marlins had one as much as the Giants have one in the OF. The club could have easily went with Helms as a full time 3b. The same way you advocate for the Giants to go with Lewis as a full time OFer. It’s not as if you are going to argue that Lewis is a top half NL LFer, are you? Or that he even has the potential for that.
Last offseason there was two Pena equivalents floating around 3B, McPherson and Cantu. The Giants opted not to sign either presumably because of what they saw as legitimate options in Aurilla and Bautista (and others). Neither of which were going to help the club win, neither of which had any potential to break out. The same as Lewis.
All that being said, if the Giants were a contending team, would you truly be happy with the best possible scenario that Lewis can provide?
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 1:40 PM PDT
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I dont think we really know yet what Fred Lewis’s best possible scenario is, to be honest. I don’t see any reason to think it’s necessarily worse than Wily Mo Pena’s.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 1:42 PM PDT
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Everyone on this site
wanted the Giants to sign Cantu or McPhereson and we very very very pissed off when we signed Castillo (not Bautista).
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
by Azmanz on
Oct 20, 2008 1:51 PM PDT
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You seem to be really down on Lewis. The guy just got done with his first full season. He may regress next season or he may get better. Either way he’s shown that he is a starting outfielder.
There are players better than Lewis. Pena is not one of them.
by chilibean_3 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:51 PM PDT
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Dude
In a season and a half in the majors, Lewis has been an above average LF. You took one look at his BABIP and decieded that he’s a 4th OF at best. It’s not that simple. There are some reasons to believe that he can maintain a high BABIP. And even if he can’t, there are no reasons to believe that Pena is better – power isn’t everything. This team lacks power, but it also lacks good players in general, and Lewis is one of the few players on it that look like they could be reasonable starters. So thank you, but nah.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Oct 20, 2008 2:11 PM PDT
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Actually...
I think the Giants were saving 3B to start Frandsen with Aurilia as backup for both 1B and 3B in case either Ortmeier or Frandsen failed, I presumed. His blown tendon blew that plans to shreds. Castillo (not Bautista) was only picked up to check him out; he seemed slated for the minors when we picked him up, but then Frandsen soon injured himself and opened a spot for Castillo to start.
They definitely kicked the tires with McPherson and they “mutually” agreed to look elsewhere (I think Boras agreed that they “mutually” agreed). I liked Cantu, not sure why he didn’t end up here, but perhaps he chose the Marlins, rather than the Giants didn’t pursue him. We don’t know that, but a lot of people here like to assume the worse about Sabean.
I understand your logic about Pena, but he has shown little ability to hit against RHP, besides homers. And he’ll be 27 next year with a regressed 2008 season playing for a team that was desperate for outfielders who could take a starting position. 27 years is past prospect-hood, it’s put up or shut up, and he didn’t put up.
People love to bring up examples like Carlos Pena to justify this move, but for every Carlos Pena, I’ll bet there there many more Hee Seop Choi’s. I think I would rather take a risk at 1B than force a player who has been developing nicely to the bench, as that would send the wrong message to the prospects we currently have on the team that the team shows no loyalty to you even when you are doing well, and Lewis was doing well. That’s always a consideration which people forget when fantasy baseball managing.
While the team is looking for some middle of lineup power, with his low OBP, Pena really should be batting 7th (which is where Molina should bat, but that’s another story). And most studies I have seen states that OBP is undervalued relative to SLG in OPS, so I think it can be argued that Lewis’ superior OBP (since they have similar OPS) makes him more valuable.
In addition, there is no reason to believe things will get better for Pena in 2009, he had a pretty horrible season in 2008. Basically, your stance appears to be: he was OK before, he has high potential, he is low cost, lets throw the jell-o on the wall and see what happens; meanwhile, lets throw Lewis under the bus. I could see doing that for a Carlos Pena type, he actually showed good stats previously, not sure why nobody wanted to give him the chance, but Pena has been very inconsistent and pretty bad at hitting RHP, except for HR.
Perhaps you can explain your LD% into BABIP translation as well. It is my understanding that you have to combine LD, GB and FB% to get a melded BABIP for the player. Perhaps, because of his speed, he gets more base hits from his GBs than regular players. Perhaps he has fliners that were dropped in the FB category instead of the LD category. There seems to be something lacking here with your method or perhaps I’m missing something.
Lastly, you are only aware of Lewis from an outside perspective, I’ll grant that. The Giants have been eyeing him to become a middle of lineup hitter since they drafted him, they felt that he had the tools to both hit up top and eventually hit for RBI, hitting 20/20 annually. Reportedly, he adjusted his hitting to be more of a leadoff hitter, getting on base, and thus would swing for more power should he hit in the middle, as planned.
I would rather take a chance on a hitter who has been hitting and well in the majors and trying him out than a failed prospect who has never shown much ability to make contact nor get on base much. I don’t want a Dave Kingman type of hitter, makes our offense too dependent on the homer, I think, as he would be a hole in the lineup anytime he doesn’t hit a homer, which would be most games.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin "Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on
Oct 23, 2008 11:27 AM PDT
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Sorry dude, the Pena thing is a no go.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 1:35 PM PDT
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Can we at least see Lewis play a full season healthy, post-bunions,
before it’s concluded that he’s not worthy to be one of our three outfielders? I would rather he play CF and we send Rowand to the White sox this offseason, rather than acquire one more outfielder in an already-crowded roster. But with Lewis, you’ll get above-average speed, average to above-average defense, and a .280 BA with some power. All with a guy who is still several years on the good side of 30, and on this team, that counts for something.
NO, we're not trading Matt Cain! What's that you say? We are? Armageddon is upon us!
by Buck Henry on
Oct 20, 2008 2:09 PM PDT
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I like thihs Kool Aid as well!
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 21, 2008 8:46 AM PDT
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and you want to replace him with Wily Mo Fucking Pena?
nah.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 10:34 AM PDT
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But, contact skills!
32% career K%!
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 10:38 AM PDT
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I mean, I’d be fine with replacing Fred in the outfield if we’re talking actual solid upgrades. Wily Mo Pena is not that.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 10:41 AM PDT
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Yeah, I agree. The 32 K% was Wily’s career K% which is much higher than Fred’s K%. That’s what made me scratch my head in the original post about replacing Fred because his contact sucks. He would be replacing him with someone even worse in terms of contact.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 10:45 AM PDT
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Oh, I knew what you meant, I just wanted to boggle some more.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 10:48 AM PDT
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rabble rabble rabble!@
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 10:50 AM PDT
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Again...
That is only part of the reason Lewis is not a guy I’d want out there everyday. Pena’s contact skills are worse but his power is substantially superior.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 11:57 AM PDT
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Is it though? His SLG has consistently trended downward from his highwater mark of .527 in 2004. .492, .489, .439, and then the rather putrid .267 last season in limited playing time. To be honest, with his horrific on base abilities, he really needs to slug about .500 to be a worthwhile corner outfielder (and that might even be generous, given his defense) and I don’t see any indication that he’s capable of that.
Perhaps Fred Lewis doesn’t have as much raw power potential as Pena, but his results thus far have been pretty comparable… career SLG of .434 vs Pena’s .447 (and the OBP is obviously a substantial difference.) He’s also a much better defensive player. I don’t see a world in which Pena is an upgrade over Lewis. Maybe if it was 2004 or 2005 and Pena was still young, but I think he is what he is now… Pedro Feliz in LF without the superlative defense.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:17 PM PDT
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Again
The defensive argument from a left fielder just doesn’t fly. The difference between the best and worst is about 2 wins.
Furthermore, I think expecting Lewis to put up a full season of .750 is pushing it.
As for Pena, he’s been jerked around quite a bit. Possibly deservingly so. He’s never been ‘handed’ a job. He seems to be the type of hitter who with some stability could truly excel.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:24 PM PDT
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The defensive argument from a left fielder just doesn’t fly. The difference between the best and worst is about 2 wins.
I’m a little confused. Pena could be -1 wins as compared to Lewis, just by defense, which you acknowledge. Lewis is also the better hitter right now, regardless of PENAS POWER.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 12:27 PM PDT
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He’s been jerked around quite a bit because he’s just not very good. There are plenty of LF I would replace Fred Lewis with, he’s certainly no great shakes, though I like him very much.
As for your defense thing, it’s not the main concern, but when Lewis is better at Pena at: hitting for average, getting on base, making contact, running the bases, defense, I might be missing something…, well it all adds up. Pena’s alleged superiority in hitting for power doesn’t make up for the rest of it.
Pena = suck. An epic resounding “Nah”
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:31 PM PDT
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The Issue...
Is Power…
That’s what I was looking at when adding Pena. Combine that with his age and hes a great fit.
I would take a year long gamble on Pena to see if he can pull everything together. If not, no big deal.
However, your ‘gamble’ of keeping Lewis has zero upside. Essentially, it has only downside. Everyone knows what Lewis is going to provide, and it isn’t going to be much.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:34 PM PDT
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you know what?
Nah.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:37 PM PDT
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A team of 8 Fred Lewises is a fantastic team.
by rotorueter on
Oct 20, 2008 12:38 PM PDT
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pitching?
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
P.S. I Love Matt Cain. but only hetero-ly
by baetown415 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:40 PM PDT
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haha kidding
we have Zito. lawls
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
P.S. I Love Matt Cain. but only hetero-ly
by baetown415 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:40 PM PDT
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However, your ‘gamble’ of keeping Lewis has zero upside. Essentially, it has only downside.
I’m starting to dislike you.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Oct 20, 2008 12:38 PM PDT
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formatting fail
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Oct 20, 2008 12:39 PM PDT
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Some might say
formatting WIN
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:40 PM PDT
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Why would you give up like a 60% chance at having a good productive hitter for a like 5% chance of having a great one? That really doesn’t work out.
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on
Oct 20, 2008 4:12 PM PDT
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The Kansas City Royals scoff at you
for they have the lightest hitting outfield in the majors
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
P.S. I Love Matt Cain. but only hetero-ly
by baetown415 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:35 PM PDT
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Hold on...
He had a surprisingly strong second half in 2008…
You sure? He had a better season before the all star break, virtualy identical OBP and better SLG in the first half. BABIP was also virtually identical. Sure his AVG was better in the second half, but you can also say he was having a worse half because he was getting more hits, but having a worse SLG so he was hitting softer hits. Also he wasn’t walking as much in the second half.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:26 PM PDT
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I agree
I agree with Brandon on Fred Lewis. Fred HAS put up an incredible BABIP thus far — but so did the Phillies’ Howard early in his career, which helped him bat over .300 one season.
Like Howard — although not to the same extent — Fred has trouble making consistent contact. Unlike Howard, he doesn’t have mind-boggling power.
Wily Mo Pena isn’t the answer, but I suspect Nate Schierholtz will outplay Fred.
by sharksrog on
Oct 24, 2008 12:50 AM PDT
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if...
he doesnt suggest trading matt cain, how credible can he be?
im adopting "insert 37th pick's name here"
by Headhunter Rollins on
Oct 20, 2008 10:26 AM PDT
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what’s the opposite of grougthink?
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on
Oct 20, 2008 10:35 AM PDT
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groudthink?
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Oct 20, 2008 10:37 AM PDT
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It’s goofusstink and it only occurs after Goofus eats too many tacos.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 10:38 AM PDT
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Is that...
A bad thing?
I would advocate trading Cain after the 2009 season. Just don’t see the rush for this offseason-one that has one of the deepest SP pools in recent memory.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 11:58 AM PDT
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haha…
i’ve actually read someone who stated that lowry was better then giants because he was a ‘proven winner’ and cain was a proven ‘loser’.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:03 PM PDT
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Probably..
Ulnar Maws or something. He’s an ass.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:35 PM PDT
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There apparently is renewed interest
among several clubs this offseason in both Winn and Molina. At the end of the season, I had changed my mind and was OK with keeping both of them around for the final year of their contracts in 2009, and perhaps more, because they are a relatively good value at their contract rates.
However, Molina’s value has apparently shot up because of the weak offseason catchers’ market, and Winn is drawing the attention of several teams as well (Mets). So the Giants should at least listen to see how motivated these teams are to get them and what would be coming back.
NO, we're not trading Matt Cain! What's that you say? We are? Armageddon is upon us!
by Buck Henry on
Oct 20, 2008 10:46 AM PDT
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interest? sure
would they give up much,l probably not. especially in the situation w/ winn , maybe giant pickup a chunk of that deal.
i could see molina interest, maybe get a solid low half top 10 type prospect
by Asfan4ever723 on
Oct 20, 2008 10:58 AM PDT
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Its interesting Dail rates Winn as +15 player. Right along names like Burrell and Dunn. You think they can be gained for 1 year 9MM commitment? Plus the likelihood of being a compensated free agent next winter.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 11:56 AM PDT
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The part that worries me about trading Winn is that the teams interested him would be very smart, and able to appreciate him for qualities that are generally undervalued. Seem like they’d be more likely to fleece us.
by oldjacket on
Oct 20, 2008 2:13 PM PDT
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Valid.
Personally I think its far more likely Sabean will over demand on his Savvy Vet’s. It’s who he is and how he operates and his current manager doesn’t help in this regard. If we see the kids getting significant to the lions share of playing time before Flag Day in ‘09 ( along with the usual health caveats) I will consider next season a success. Among other things it will be Sabean proving he willing to work with a different club model.
Before some one busts my chops on the recent drafts – yes they have been very nice – it would be a very Sabean move to get them in the upper minors with good track records and trade them up for savvy vet MLB help. Now that I told you my boogie man I feel much better.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 21, 2008 8:56 AM PDT
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Invalid
Since the Pierzitski trade, when has Sabean given up a prospect worth crying over? Accardo is about all I can think of.
Even before that, the main losses were relievers, Foulke, Howry, and another reliever who escapes memory (OK, Carlos Villanueva and another reliever, Clay Hensley).
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin "Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on
Oct 23, 2008 11:51 AM PDT
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I have been eyeing the Mets for a week or so now...
Winn + Molina + Cash + ML ready reliever
for
Dan Murphy + ptnbl(Nick Evans?)
I think I pulled my swagger muscle...
by BawLa on
Oct 20, 2008 4:17 PM PDT
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Wily Mo Pena, aside from having one of the worst names in baseball, has never had a season that was markedly better than the one Fred Lewis just had. And most of his seasons have been worse.
Aside from that, outfield is pretty much last on the list of our needs. With Lewis, Rowand, Winn, Schierholtz, and maybe Bowker, we may not have any A+ OMG GREAT options, but we do have a lot of options that aren’t vomit-worthy, which is a lot more than one can say about third base (assuming Sandoval starts at first, which is what Sabean has said will likely happen), second base, the back of the rotation, and the last 2 or 3 spots in the bullpen. So why should the Giants focus on the outfield when there are far more glaring problems at hand? Well, it would be in character for them to do so, but it’s not something I would wish for.
Hank Blalock would be a poor choice at third as well. His overall numbers look decent until you consider his splits – throughout his career, almost all his offensive production has come in Arlington. On the road, he’s well below average. And Velez…well, we may not have a lot of other options under contract currently. But instead of wasting time on Wily Mo Pena or Hank Blalock, perhaps Sabean could find an upgrade at second.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 10:46 AM PDT
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Although my preferred pickup at second base, Mark Ellis, appears to be off the market. Ah well.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 10:48 AM PDT
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I think their plans may shift (as I noted above)
if other teams really want Molina and Winn this offseason. If someone comes forward and makes them a good offer for Molina, and they feel comfortable letting Pablo take over for 1-2 seasons behind the plate while Posey readies himself, it allows them to get his bat into the lineup while still taking the savings from Molina’s departure and using it to fill another infield hole with a power bat by way of trade.
NO, we're not trading Matt Cain! What's that you say? We are? Armageddon is upon us!
by Buck Henry on
Oct 20, 2008 10:54 AM PDT
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Somehow I would have been surprised if Beane hadn’t made an offer to him.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 11:59 AM PDT
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Ellis
Will be one of the top 2 or 3 middle infielders acquired this offseason. He’s likely to fetch a contract that doesn’t align with what he brings to the table. I don’t think anyone would be surprised with an offer of 3yr for $36M.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:05 PM PDT
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He’s reportedly on the verge of re-signing the A’s for a multi-year deal.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:06 PM PDT
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re-signing WITH the A’s.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:06 PM PDT
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Wow...
That would surprise me…He must really like Oakland (or Freemont?) or what the organization has.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:07 PM PDT
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Rumored to be 2 year deal with option for a third totaling around 20MM
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 12:13 PM PDT
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Fremont
One E.. Everyone outside the Bay Area spells that wrong for some reason.
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
by Azmanz on
Oct 20, 2008 1:55 PM PDT
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People in Seattle spell it right
Because they have a neighborhood of the same name.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:58 PM PDT
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Isnt that where...
Eediee Veedeer lives?
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on
Oct 20, 2008 2:05 PM PDT
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Say what? He is healthier then Hudson. Plays very good "D" can handle a bat rather well for his potion. I don’t get this " does not bring to the table" bit. Now if he would be a good signing for a team in the state the Giants are in is a different topic but he is a darn good player.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
by daveinexile on
Oct 20, 2008 12:13 PM PDT
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35th
Ranked VORP among ML second basemen. Presumably would demand a contract that would price him into the top 5 or 10.
Explain to me how this would be a good signing?
Again, I like the guy, but if you have to spend more then $6 or $7M to bring him aboard, you are certainly overpaying.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:19 PM PDT
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With his defense, he is definitely a top 5 or 10 second baseman.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:20 PM PDT
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DEFENSE.
Consider it’s value.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 12:21 PM PDT
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you know
looking at a guy’s one year VORP isn’t much of an analysis of his value.
in fact, if you look here, you could see a good argument on why the deal that Ellis has set in place is unfair to HIM
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/mark_ellis/
(read the comments too)
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
P.S. I Love Matt Cain. but only hetero-ly
by baetown415 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:39 PM PDT
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No thanks on Blalock.
Proud adoptive parent of Tim Alderson.
by Anticon23 on
Oct 20, 2008 11:05 AM PDT
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also note...
The linked article also suggests Crede as a possibility for those
who are saying No Thanks to Hank Mooky Blalock.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on
Oct 20, 2008 11:10 AM PDT
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Yeah, if there’s one thing the roster is missing, it’s guys whose backs are so messed up they have the get epidurals!
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 11:17 AM PDT
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Then I also say “no thanks” to Joe Crede.
Proud adoptive parent of Tim Alderson.
by Anticon23 on
Oct 20, 2008 11:22 AM PDT
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Also, I just noticed that the proposed bullpen includes Walker. Ick.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 11:12 AM PDT
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Bringing back Walker?
MAVERICK MOVE!
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 11:41 AM PDT
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EXPERIENCE! CHARACTER!
To stretch the metaphor, I guess this would mean that Walker’s running mate should be, like, Conor Gillaspie.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 11:43 AM PDT
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Walker
When I wrote this I was under the impression that Walker had another year on his contract. Not sure why…
Either way, we’re talking the second last arm out of the bullpen, not sure I axed anyone by keeping him around.
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 12:01 PM PDT
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Oh you axed us. You axed us plenty.
by rotorueter on
Oct 20, 2008 12:28 PM PDT
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What did OJ say when his kid wanted to borrow the Bronco?
You’ll have to axe your mother.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on
Oct 20, 2008 12:34 PM PDT
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oh no you di’n’t!?!
Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.
by Lyle on
Oct 20, 2008 1:40 PM PDT
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confession
I think he’s a decent bet to bounce back.
by oldjacket on
Oct 20, 2008 2:14 PM PDT
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He’s never had a good season ever.
by rotorueter on
Oct 20, 2008 2:14 PM PDT
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I thought that a year ago.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 2:15 PM PDT
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New post
HEY GUYS
CHECK OUT MY SI
SITE
Two PFX plots from Garza’s start last night. Velocity and FB location.


If we’re going to spam our personal sites, I’ll at least give something resembling information and provide some discourse!
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 12:49 PM PDT
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imo






Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:52 PM PDT
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I’ll see your 6 Matt Garzas and raise you 3 Yabus!



#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 12:53 PM PDT
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Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:56 PM PDT
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Oh man, I love Garza more than ever know. Is he perpetually stoned in his MLB photos? MY STATS TELL ME YES.
Now I’m on a quest to find more stoned looking MLB’ers.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 12:57 PM PDT
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What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 12:58 PM PDT
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one of my favorites




Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:58 PM PDT
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Oh, damn.
That’s awesome.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 12:59 PM PDT
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I just scrolled up to the Garza pictures and I think they’re moving. D:
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:59 PM PDT
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I could never get those to work. I’m pretty sure they’re just a scam and the rest of you are pretending so you can fit in.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:01 PM PDT
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IT’S A ROCKETSHIP! I CAN SEE IT!
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:01 PM PDT
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NO, IT’S A SCHOONER.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on
Oct 20, 2008 3:09 PM PDT
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No way! It’s a sailboat!
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on
Oct 20, 2008 4:14 PM PDT
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You know what! There is no Easter Bunny! Over there that’s just a guy in a suit!
by rotorueter on
Oct 20, 2008 4:34 PM PDT
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Reminds me of the Don Nelson sound byte on KNBR
I see the future, and it is Pablo
by CB30 on
Oct 20, 2008 5:19 PM PDT
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You just..
Focus past the picture.
“And our stocks will rise HIGH!”
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:37 PM PDT
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Obligatory Jamey Carroll Image:

#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:01 PM PDT
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The spread legs and hands seemingly behind his butt make it so much worse.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:01 PM PDT
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Y/N
Would you sit on Jamey Carroll’s lap?
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:02 PM PDT
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Jamey Carroll reminds me of

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 1:06 PM PDT
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Chris Britton was born without a neck.

#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:08 PM PDT
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#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:11 PM PDT
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In this picture, the top half of his head appears to narrower than his neck. Scary.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:13 PM PDT
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Julian Tavarez was born with four buttocks
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:12 PM PDT
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WHYYYYYYYY
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 1:12 PM PDT
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Julian Tavarez: excellent argument for God’s non-existence.
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:32 PM PDT
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I remember seeing this on Yahoo during the season. He couldn’t ask for a redo?
by Natto on
Oct 20, 2008 12:59 PM PDT
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It’s Adam Jones, right?
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 1:01 PM PDT
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Yeah.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 1:02 PM PDT
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i wish...
I was spamming…
I simply was looking for feedback. IE:
Check out what I’ve written and let me know what you would do I you were running the Giants.
Sorry…
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 1:14 PM PDT
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Don't mind xanthan
He’s a spambot.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on
Oct 20, 2008 1:28 PM PDT
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I have to say though I haven’t participated in this sort of thread for awhile and it’s fun, even if I really should be doing homework and laundry.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on
Oct 20, 2008 12:55 PM PDT
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Bah, screw homework. I should be working, but here I am.
#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on
Oct 20, 2008 12:55 PM PDT
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Has anyone run/seen projections?
On Crede and Beltre, etc.
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
P.S. I Love Matt Cain. but only hetero-ly
by baetown415 on
Oct 20, 2008 1:07 PM PDT
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haha
i just checked PECOTA…and they certainly don’t help my argument…
by bbdbrandon on
Oct 20, 2008 1:16 PM PDT
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