The Extreme Houdini Save

by sharksrog on Oct 16, 2008 12:45 PM PDT

I mentioned in the post on Brian Wilson's far better performance when he had regular work that there are several different types of saves. I listed five types, with the toughest one being when a pitcher entered the game with runners on second and third )or with the bases loaded) and no outs -- in a one-run game.

Now I see that Bill James has a name for such saves (although he limited his to bases loaded, not runners only on second and third). He calls such saves Extreme Houdini saves.

One of the points I made in my previous post was that two- and especially three-run saves were easy saves that any decent pitcher should achieve a high percentage of the time. But the Houdini saves are darn tough.

How tough? So tough that there have been only eight Extreme Houdini saves since 1974 -- and none since 2000.

I think most relief pitchers in general and closers in particular would benefit from more regular work. Wilson appears to be a prime candidate. I think baseball is ripe for a re-examination of how closers are used.

If the Giants had used Brian Wilson on a strict schedule of no more than two days in a row and no more than two days between appearances, he would have missed out on only two of his 47 save opportunities last season. That doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice to make, given that his ERA when used regularly was several runs lower than when he wasn't.

Let's see closers making more tough saves (and perhaps even the occasional Extreme Houdini) and fewer two- and especially three-run saves. Sometimes the time when a true Houdini is needed is in an earlier inning -- when the bases might be loaded with no outs or one out. Why not use the closer in such critical situations?

If the fire isn't doused in that particular situation, there most likely won't be a game for the closer to save later. Saves are important. Team wins are even more so.

Harry Houdini was at his best when his tricks were tough. He proved his stuff by making escapes on one else could make -- not by making the routine ones.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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I remember Tyler Walker getting a save (back when he was good) by coming in with the bases loaded and no outs and striking out the side. I believe the Giants had a 4-0 lead though so it wouldn’t qualify. I also remember him blowing a save just two days later that broke my heart. If I remember correctly, Todd Linden had hit a three run HR with two outs in the top of the ninth off of Percival to put the Giants ahead, and Walker blew it in the bottom of the ninth. And to complete this topic, Houdini is buried within walking distance of my house. (or is he???)

Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment

by rxmeister on Oct 16, 2008 12:59 PM PDT reply actions

Actually

I kind of remember that game you’re talking about. I’ll see if I can find it. Under the circumstances you described, the Giants could have been ahead by as much as 6-0, and it would still have qualified for a save. It wouldn’t have fit the Extreme Houdini scenario, though, since those saves have to come in one-run games, where the pitcher actually has to prevent the runner from scoring from third in order to keep the win.

It sounds as if what Tyler accomplished would indeed have done that, but it didn’t strictly qualify because of the score. I guess that basically was no tougher than entering at the beginning of the ninth inning with a one-run lead. But I would agree it was more exciting!

by sharksrog on Oct 16, 2008 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions

Yes..

Only person ever to strike out the side when coming in with the bases loaded.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Oct 16, 2008 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Tyler certainly can be dominant.

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Oct 16, 2008 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions

That year he had some amazing stretches..

When he could pinpoint his fastball to the corners then throw that splitter, it was unhittable. That thing would break off the table right before the batter.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Oct 16, 2008 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Tyler CAN be dominant

but generally, he’s a Polarizing figure.

by Moggeee on Oct 17, 2008 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions

I thought you were going to point out his proclivity for submission

he’s a very bad boy.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Oct 18, 2008 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions

against Detroit.

Fairley odd parent to Wendell

by WTF on Oct 17, 2008 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions

I was actually in Detroit for that series

(Or was I?)

F___ Mike Marshall!!!

by NuschlerFace on Oct 16, 2008 2:10 PM PDT reply actions

AboutFace for the Nuschler

by Moggeee on Oct 17, 2008 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions

I'm John The Licensed Plumber and I approve licensed craftsmen.

(Or do I?)

"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott

by victor frankenstein on Oct 16, 2008 2:12 PM PDT reply actions

Zing!

But are you registered to vote?

Eugeniooooooo!!!!

by FairweatherFan on Oct 16, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions

In Nevada.

Where I think there’s some sort of >.5 BAC mandate at the polls.

"Ain't got a hope in Hell - that's my belief." - Bon Scott

by victor frankenstein on Oct 16, 2008 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions

If they only....

Took away senior citizens driver’s licenses where I lived in SoCal, the neocon’s would be like the condor…not of the Robert Redford variety, though. That is a kickass movie and should be mandatory viewing in all high schools.

If we could only educate the elderly, the stupid, the crazies and those who say they’re educated but spent their college years worried about what Jesus would say about how they behaved.

I just want to go to that meat processing plant in Greeley, CO and ask those workers who don’t want to accommodate the Muslim workers for Ramadan is they’ve ever been given special religious accommodations/days off…then write on a board “Easter, Christmas and shut the F up”.

I guess if I can’t have a championship, at least I can vote and ruin someone elses day!

it's always noonan somewhere

by sectionop92 on Oct 17, 2008 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions

Excellent movie – good call.

Am I mad, in a coma, or back in time? Whatever's happened, it's like I've landed on a different planet. Now, maybe if I can work out the reason, I can get home.

by Lyle on Oct 17, 2008 6:15 AM PDT up reply actions

I just spilled beer on my computer. don’t worry, it still works.

by Mrbasepaul on Oct 16, 2008 8:01 PM PDT reply actions

Well of course the beer still works, but I’m worried about your computer here.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Oct 16, 2008 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Does Extreme Houdini drink tons of Mountain Dew and snowboard?

#1 JUDY STEFFES FAN
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Oct 17, 2008 6:49 AM PDT reply actions

It wasn’t a save situation, but I seem to remember the Special Agent pulling off some sort of bases loaded no out, escape early this season.

The Denker bus is now bound for San Diego. Those who were passengers on it are now angrily stranded at a gas station in Modesto, CA. Not much about baseball here .

by oldjacket on Oct 17, 2008 8:20 AM PDT reply actions