A Trade for a Young, Elite Power Hitter: Chris Davis
by HarbirD on Oct 11, 2008 2:41 PM PDT
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PrintOver the last few weeks I've heard a lot of talk about guys like Uggla, Fielder, Hardy, and even guys like Konerko and Derek lee. Most of these rumors mention trading away Sanchez or Cain. Some even say we would need to give up Alderson or Bumgarner which is the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my days.
Ladies and Gentlemen we are rebuilding. REBUILDING. We need to add young power so that it will blossom in two to three years when this team is finally contending for a world series. I've constantly been looking around and sniffing other teams minor leagues and I've finally found my man: Chris Davis.
Who:
Chris Davis is a power hitting third baseman on the Texas Rangers. Chris is a 3B/1B who broke out in the Texas Minor leagues in 2007 when he hit a combined .297/.347/.598 with 36 HR and 35 Doubles in 500 at bats in High A and Double A . He struck out 150 times, but due to his sheer power whenever he made contact with the ball it went places leading to a high average.
This year he continued his amazing breakout this year is Double A and Triple A where he hit a combined .333/.386/.643 with 23 HR and 21 Doubles in just 300 at bats. He walked 26 timems and stuck out 70 times.
Then he finally made the leap to the big show and he hit .285/.331/.549 with 17 HR and 23 Doubles in just 300 at bats. This is a very good debut and I think that in a full season he could hit 35HR and 40 Doubles to go along with a .270-.290 average. This kind of young, elite power doesn't come around very often.
Now to the defense. Chris davis can play a decent third base. According to Espn, he has a .962 fielding %, 2.45 RF, and .754 Zone Rating. This is very close to david Wright's .96, 2.51, 7.65. This show he can be a least average at third base and I think a platoon of Sandoval and Davis at first and third would be good.
Why:
So basically we add a 35Hr and 40 Double powerhouse into our lineup for a total of 6, count them, SIX years. This is why it would be better to add him that Uggla or Fielder. He has his entire prime ahead of him as next year he will only be 23 years old. We will have him cheap for three years and Arbitration for the next three. He will peak as the Giants get ready to contend for a world Series with Lincecum, Sandoval, Shierholtz, Posey, Burriss, Lewis, Alderson, Bumgarner and Others.
The Offer:
I am willing to offer Matt Cain to the constantly pitching starved Rangers who need someone to be their ace for the future. They don't need Davis especially with Smoak coming up and the fact that they have such a strong offense already and really need some good pitching. I would offer Matt Cain for Chris Davis and two MLB ready pitchers (Feldman and Hurley).
I think the Giants can afford to move Matt Cain because of our minor league depth which is headlined by Alderson and Bumgarner followed by Henry Sosa, Kevin Pucetas, Clayton Tanner, Jesse English and others. Also with the sixth pick in next years draft we could add another big time arm as there are many high school and college arms who have high ceilings.
Our 2011 and Beyond Rotation could be Lincecum, Bumgarner, Alderson, Sanchez, and Our 2009 Draftee (Crow, Matt Purke, Zack Wheeler, Tyler Matzek, Alex White, Kyle Gibson). If any of these guys flop we could always add a free agent or look to our minor league pool.
Future Batting Order:
Fred Lewis (LF), Nate Shierholtz (RF), Buster Posey (C), Pablo Sandoval (1B/3B), Chris Davis (1B/3B), Aaron Rowand (CF), Kevin Frandsen/Nick Noonan (2B), and Emmanuel Buriss (SS).
What do you guys think about that? i think that lineup is world series Caliber if all goes right.
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Yay! A “Matt Cain for a power hitter” trade idea! I’m glad somebody finally thought of this
by FluLikeSymptoms on Oct 11, 2008 2:46 PM PDT reply actions
Yep, and one that has been mentioned before.
I am now wishy washy on it. I sort of like the idea but I’d want more than one very good hitter in return…
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
I swear to god I read the name in the title as Chili Davis.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 11, 2008 2:50 PM PDT reply actions
Matt Cain for Chilli Davis?
now that I can get behind
by FluLikeSymptoms on Oct 11, 2008 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s a step towards reanimating rebuilding for sure!
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 11, 2008 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Davis would be a good target, but I’m quite iffy on the idea of trading Cain for one impact hitter and two mediocre pitching prospects.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Davis
in Texas, Davis might be considered an “untouchable.” It would take a ton to get him and I wouldn’t do a Cain for Davis straight up. Maybe Sanchez.
Plus, Davis wouldn’t be a 35 homer guy playing half his games in our yard.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 11, 2008 3:35 PM PDT reply actions
Davis' D
In 276 innings, Davis was 9 plays below average at third base. That’s a lot. Had he been at the position for as many innings as David Wright was (1433), he was on pace for about 47 plays below average. That’s really, really, really, really bad.
He’s basically a first baseman or DH.
Proud adoptive parent of Tim Alderson.
Pitching Death? Yes we have plenty of that.
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Let's see spread Chaos, Confusion and Anarchy here? Check. My work is complete. I’ll be moving on now.
I applaud your thinking out this post…
But why is everyone so anxious to get rid of Matt Cain? Honestly, I’d think the starting point for negotiating a trade should be a lesser pitcher. If you actually think it would take Matt Cain to make a deal, shouldn’t you start with a Jonathan Sanchez? He’s not yet stretched out for a full-time starting gig, lost effectiveness in the second half, but still put up solid to really good numbers. Maybe even start lower than that, and go from there. But starting every trade offer by saying, “I think we should trade Matt Cain for this guy” is starting WAY too high.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
How about...
Sanchez and Winn and cash for Chris Davis and Nelson Cruz
I think I pulled my swagger muscle...
Rangers? Winn?
They’re rebuilding too… it’s not like they’re going all-in for a short-term upgrade.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
Why not?
They have only 2 real options for the OF next year, especially if we take away Cruz. So if we pay most of Winn’s contract I don’t see why they wouldn’t want him. Winn is a true professional, can play all OF positions, would see an increase in power numbers, can hit at the top of the lineup, etc. More or less, Winn would be a nice stopgap while they sort out their OF.
I think I pulled my swagger muscle...
I like this, given that
the rumors coming out of the front office (supposedly) have the Giants looking at Uggla, Konerko, and Lee. Still…I wish the Giants would just admit that they’re rebuilding and not trade any young players away. It would probably take Davis, Tex, CC, and a setup man to get the Giants to compete for the division title…so why trade Cain for just one of them when at least two out of the other three just won’t be happening?
Cain for Davis and 2 mediocrities is clearly too much...
He should be worth about as much as Dan Haren was last year, and Haren got 6 players back, all of whom are decent to excellent prospects.
It turns out the Rangers actually have a ton of pitching prospects at the lower levels… so if they decided to buy Cain for a run at respectability, it might make sense to actually deal him for a whole pack of low-minors arms on the theory that one of them will probably replace him and if you get two useful pitchers out of it, so much the better. It’s a logical strategy, because the Rangers are much closer to contention than the Giants are. But you have to sell it to Reynolds… and to Sabean. Not bloody likely.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
He should be worth about as much as Dan Haren was last year, and Haren got 6 players back, all of whom are decent to excellent prospects.
How about we let Beane trade Cain, and we split the profits?
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
Over the last few weeks I’ve heard a lot of talk about guys like Uggla, Fielder, Hardy, and even guys like Konerko and Derek lee. Most of these rumors mention trading away Sanchez or Cain. Some even say we would need to give up Alderson or Bumgarner which is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard in my days.
Probably should have ended the post here simply because we get too many trade Matt Cain threads. However, I like the way you think.
Giants! Giants! HELP US GOD!
Hmm..
I might trade for Chris Davis for a package of someone like Jonathan Sanchez and a lower prospect, say Travis Denker, but not for something more.
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I'm For
trading for Chris Davis, but not for Cain. Sanchez and Denker would be a perfect deal… Sabean should look at 3B as a priority and make some major moves. At the trade deadline, I was hoping to pick up Adrian Beltre, but the front office took baby steps and just got rid of Ray Ray’s contract and opened up 2B for Velez and Burriss. Cain and Lincecum should be untouchable!!! It’s time to get some bats and give our superior pitching staff some run support…
NO
Just no. Matt and Tim both should be untouchable. It’s that simple. Sandavol and Wilson should be close to untouchable, with Sanchez next on the list NOT to be traded. Anyone else I’d be open to discussion.
The idea of weakening this club through trading Cain or Lincecum is completely and totally absurd.
No
What’s absurd is totally closing the door on trading them. I realize how valuable and awesome both of them are. But to completely shut the door on any possibility is bad. Yes, we would have to get a lot in return. This probably means that there aren’t very many deals that are worth it. It also probably means that neither will get dealt.
I’m okay with keeping both but I think options should be explored as well.
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Cain certainly shouldn't be off limits
His contract is up after ‘11 and I’m not sure the Giants are going to be competitive by then, maybe in ‘11 itself. Its similar to holding onto Dan Haren for too long, yes the team is going to be worse without him obviously but they aren’t likely to be in the race with him either.
Lincecum is around for two years longer and is God, I would pretty much put him off limits.
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by iamawesomer on Oct 12, 2008 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions
NO, and still NO
With the only exception being if some GM has gone bonkers and offers his whole team for one of them. And even then there are a few teams you’ve got to show the door to.
Really, my point is that the Giants have spent many years and much cash in developing one of the finest young pitching rotations in baseball, and it will only get better as they get older and MadBum and a few others come up to San Francisco. The way you build this club is by strengthening it’s strength. Pitching, more pitching, and still more pitching. That means breaking up Cain and Lincecum is about as smart as trading Maddox or Glavine early in their Braves tenure. It’s just stupid to do so.
So, if the hyperbole in my first post didn’t get the point across, the trade proposal in the OP is plain dumb.
So you think the way to build this team up is to focus on its strength and completely ignore its weaknesses. We disagree on that point.
Also, the Giants don’t really have one of the finest rotations in baseball. They have one of the finest duos in baseball and a good-great third starter who still can not pitch effectively for a full season because of how he was treated.
My contention is that the Giants have historically been better at producing pitching than hitting. I trust their ability to develop more pitching more than I trust their ability to develop hitting. Depending on how Gillaspie, Kieschnick, Noonan, Fairley, Sandoval, Posey and Ishikawa turn out, this might change. But, right now, I trust their ability to develop pitching more than I trust their ability to develop hitting. Therefore, I think free-agency and trades are the way to go in regards to finding offense. And there’s not much out there as far as free-agency goes.
Therefore, I think that trading Cain should be a possibility. And would not be stupid under the right circumstances.
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
???
First, read my post again. I did not say “one of the finest rotations in baseball,” I said, “one of the finest young pitching rotations in baseball” (italics added.) That’s a very important difference. There are better established rotations, but none better that combines the talent the Giants have with the young age of the Giants pitchers. They have the unique opportunity to build upon this talent and have a dominant rotations for years to come – hence the comparison with the young Braves of Glavine and Maddox. You don’t throw that away for a young hitting prospect, or even for almost any hitting prospect out there.
Could some team theoretically come up with a package that might make sense for the Giants to trade Cain? Sure, but it is almost impossible to imagine such a deal taking place. And it sure as hell isn’t Cain for Chris Davis. The other team has to not only come up with a deal that trades equivalent or better value for Matt Cain as an individual player, it has to come up with a trade that represents the equivalent or better value for many years of Cain and Lincecum anchoring a rotation that will get better, much better with NO trades. That is almost impossible to come up with in value. So, theoretically, yes, it could happen; realistically the deal isn’t out there that makes trading Matty make sense.
I’d also ask you to look at my last post and show me where I said anything about how this team should “completely ignore its weaknesses.” I do advocate focus on building on this team’s strength of pitching, instead of assuming the present staff is fine. I’m glad to see that Sabean is doing just that with a focus on rebuilding the bullpen. None of that means they should ignore getting offensive help. I don’t even have much of a problem with the suggestion of Chris Davis to help the offense, but the trading of Cain for him is crazy. Trading Sanchez or Wilson for him is crazy as well, but just not quite as bat-shit crazy as trading Matt.
If you get started talking about trading Cain, it becomes such a big deal that it sucks up all the oxygen in the room. Remember how the Lincecum/Rios swap was the only news that mattered in Giantsland for a couple of weeks last year? Surely the time could have been better spent on other things, like say finding an actual major-league third baseman.
Well, I think trading Cain threads are tiresome
But, I also think that claiming that it is stupid to trade Cain in all circumstances is tiresome.
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Wilson for Davis
Would the Rangers do it?
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
no
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
No you wouldn’t do it, or no the Rangers wouldn’t do it?
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
Rangers
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Dean Cain?
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trade cain only for haren-like offer
if the giants were to ever consider trading matt cain…they’d have to get an overwhelming offer from texas…something along the lines of chris davis, julio borbon and elvis andrus. that’ll give them a future power hitting 1b, a 5 tool CF, and 5 tool SS while under the team’s control for the next 6 years! davis could start now (moving sandoval to 3b) and andrus might be a year away. i hear he can play defensively at a major league level now.
now will texas do it? depends on how desperate they are for pitching but it should be where the giants start in asking anything for cain.
the A’s were able to re-tool their farm system in one season with the haren and swisher trades. they received 4 of the top 10 prospects in arizona’s system for haren and i cant see why the giants cant do the same with the rangers. cain’s younger and has a higher ceiling and will be under a team’s control for the next 3 seasons.
any thoughts?
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